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cate my own character, and to state the difficulties of my fituation. Neither do I mean, by excepting one perfon, to caft a cenfure on any others. Yet I feel, in my efteem for Mr. Wheeler, and in my folicitude to avoid even the imputation of reflecting unjustly on his conduct, a duty impelling me to declare, that, in my experience of it, fince the time that we were first in the habits of mutual confidence, it has been fair and honourable to myself, and zealous to the public; equally free from profeffion and fubterfuge, and his fupport, given to me in every instance, equal to whatever claim I might have to it.

IRISH

REPRESENTATION.
(Continued from page 487.)

THE EARL OF EFFINGHAM'S LETTER TO LIEUT. COLONEL
SHARMAN, &c.

SIR,

I Have received a letter figned by the Secretary of forty-five corps of Voluntiers of Ulfter, defiring my opinion concerning a reform of the reprefentation of the Commons in Parliament may be tranfmitted to you, for the information of the Committee appointed by the Delegates of thofe refpectable

bodies.

From the first moment of that queftion's being agitated in England, I have invariably held one opinion as to the right of reprefentation in theory, as founded on one plain propofition, viz. to be free is to be felf-governed, and vice verfa. Therefore, every man must either vote in perfon or by his reprefentative, in making thofe laws which are to affect his life, liberty, and property.

I am very ready to admit, however, the poffibility of our being obliged to relinquish in practice what feems perfect in theory; and on that account I have joined in fome affociations held for a reformation which I think far from complete, but the beft plan in which a fufficient number of perfons were ready to join, fo as to give us any profpect of fuccefs.

In the eight queries contained in the letter to me, there are fome which

depend on local circumftances, which I am not fufficiently acquainted with to be able to give fo direct and explicit an anfwer as I could with; I, therefore, think it is beft to give you a brief account of the plan I wish to fee adopted in England, and afterwards to enclofe you a feparate paper contaning each query, and the best answer to it which I find myfelf prepared to give.

My favourite plan for this country to fecure a reprefentation tolerably equal, and to make as little alteration in the prefent mode as our fecurity will admit, is as follows:

Let the counties and cities remain juft as they are at prefent.

Let the counties be divided into four or more claffes, according to their importance in the national fcale, con◄ fidering their population, agriculture, and manufactures.

Let each return from four to ten or twelve burgeffes, making in the whole the fame number of members as at prefent.

Let every man paying feot and lot have a vote for burgefles.

Let the poll be taken on a certain day in every parifh, before the parish officers and principal inhabitants.

Let the constable witness the poll, and

and attend the fheriff on a certain day, who, affifted by fuch magiftrates as may choose to attend, is to caft up the fame, and make the return..

The foregoing feems to me to be clear of all objection, as it disfranchifes nobody, but only reftores to liberty fuch as are now unjustly disfranchised: and as it takes no man out of his parish, removes the only plaufible objection to frequent elections..

I am, with great regard, Sir,
Your moit obedient,
humble fervant,
EFFINGHAM.

Aug. 18, 1783.

P. S.-I beg to obferve, that no argument has ever yet been produced in favour of a feven years parliament, which is not equally good for one of feventeen years.

SEPARATE ANSWERS, &c.

Anfwer to firft Query.

I Would disfranchife nobody, but I would communicate to all thofe who are at preint unjustly disfranchised a participation of liberty with the reft of their country. By confolidating the boroughs, and all other houfeholders, every man would be reprefented by at kaft four members.

Anfower to Query 2d. The number of members I take to be a matter of indifference, provided they are amply fufficient to attend to all the local bujines, and not too many to fit and debate in one chamber. If any corrupt connexion is apprehended between the reprefentative body and the crown, it is the fhort duration of parliaments, and not the number of members that maft prevent or cure that evil.

Anfover to 3d Query. The objection alluded to is, that as now two great families endeavour to return the two county members, the fame would be done by fix families were there fix members, I fhould think it probable, in fuch a cafe, that the two moft powerful of thofe families would return four of the members, and four families next in power would compromife for two; and thus the fix united would totally throw out thofe unconnected with them. This confideration would de

termine me to leave the county repre fentation untouched.

Anfer to 4th Query. I think every man not incapable through infancy, infanity, or criminal conduct, has a right to the franchife of being reprefented; but I cannot entertain a moment's doubt in refpect of those who bear the public burthens.

Answer to 5th Query. I rather think it would not be wife to have the members returned by ballot; but as I muft candidly own fome of the beft men in this country are of a different opinion, I will briefly give you the reafon for mine.

I had an opportunity fome might be as eafily abufed as any other years ago of learning how a ballot method of voting, and it was upon the following occafion: the kingdom of Sweden, it is well known, has in the prefent century enjoyed about fifty years of a free government; during which time they collected the votes in their diet by ballot. When a member was bribed, whofe promife the briber did not choofe to rely on, it was the cuftom for him to write on the fame paper with his vote, fome word or fentence agreed on; by which it was known whether he had earned his wages or not. To prevent this, a law was made, that if any fuch mark appeared in future, the vote fhould be null and void.

In the year 1769 I was witnefs of a ftrong conteft for the choice of a land marfhal; when among other exertions of each party, bribery and corruption were not forgot; but as the law abovementioned prevented the old method, they took the following, inftead of defiring any one to vote for the favourite candidate, each manager applied to the fuppofed friends of the oppofite fide, and gave them money to deftroy their own vote; by which, though they could not increafe their own numbers, they could diminish the number of their adverfaries. It is eafy to conceive numberlefs other contrivances, which, till known, will ferve to evade any regulation that can be made.

Fut I have a much stronger reafon again ballots. It is not merely influence, but fecret intelligence, that I

dread,

dread. For fo long as riches or power can confer any favours or benefits-and fo long as good men fhall poffefs gratitude- knaves avarice or fools pride-fo long influence will exift. But while that is brought to light by open voting in the face of our country, it appears to me in a lefs formidable light than if it worked in the dark, where I could neither fee the nature or extent of my danger.

Anfwer to 6th Query. I think a triennial parliament the longeft that can be any ways confiftent with the idea of any controul in the constituent over his reprefentative. Indeed, any fixed duration beyond the feffion to which parliament is called by the King's writ, is granting an independence to the reprefentative for that term, and fo far making that branch of the legislature an ariftocratic body.

Answer to 7th Query. As I cannot fuppofe it poffible that any gentleman has either procured his own return with a view to fell his vote, or taken money to procure the return of another man, I am at a lofs to account for a pecuniary claim in amends for a property in the lives and liberty of a people who call themfelves fo free, that they affert a negro flave does ipfo facto obtain his liberty by fetting his foot among them. If, however, by any former mistaken notions, fuch a thing fhould have happened; if any gentleman has really given a few thoufands more than the true value of an estate, on account of a fuppofed privilege annexed to it; or if a poor member of a corporation would by the propofed reform really believe that he was unjustly deprived of an octennial twenty pounds, I should think that equity might, at the interceffion of liberality, fo far relax the feverity of her rules as to permit a fufficient fum to be diftributed in fecret fervice money, to prevent the general joy from being interrupted by any murmurs of forrow or difcontent.

Answer to 8th Query. In all the foregoing questions I have confidered what I wished to be established here, as equally applicable to Ireland; and have referved to this place my obfervations on the only very material difference LOND. MAG. App. 1783.

which ftrikes me in the fituation of the two countries as to their reprefentation. The very extensive line I draw for this country may appear dangerous in Ireland, on account of the great propor tion of Roman Catholics in that kingdom, and renders it neceffary for me here to make a fhort obfervation on that fubject. A Papift is not dangerous because he prays to faints, but because he fets up a foreign jurifdiction, paramount to our laws. I will never fight with my fellow-citizen, becaufe we cannot agree whether a wench in a white sheet be a facrament or a ceremony: I will only, as a good Christian ought, pray to God to pardon him all his errors, and me all mine. But if he will go about to overturn the Proteftant fucceffion, or any other fecurity for the liberties of my country, I will, as it is my duty, oppofe him to the last drop of my blood. On thefe principles we have in England, very juftly as I think, relaxed in the feverity of our penal laws; and I hope the day is not far distant, when bigotry fhall have given way to common fenfe, and our religious opinions be all reconciled to one plain truth, that to outrage the first laws of nature and reafon cannot be to ferve God.

How far the fituation of Ireland in this refpect may, or may not warrant what we have done, can only be determined by thofe who have the opportunity of knowing the numbers and the inclinations of the Roman Catholics; how far the influence of their clergy operates upon them; what fecurity they have given or will give for maintaining the conftitution. On thefe circumflances muft depend the answer to the firft part of this question. As to the fecond part of it, viz. " the steps to be taken," none appear to me more eligible than thofe we have adopted by county committees of correfpondence, to endeavour to fix on the principal points.

If the friends of reform then move parliament to confider of the prefent itate of reprefentation, it will appear to every man fo unequal, that there can remain no doubt but that the juftice and propriety, I may add the necessity of a 4 G

reform,

reform, will be obvious, and confequently with general confent adopted. The mode of reform coming from parliament will give fatisfaction to thofe who (having in fome points differed from other committees, and thinking their opinions equally fit to be followed) will readily fubmit to fuch authority.

If I have not given fo exactly as I defired my ideas upon a fubject I have fo much at heart, I hope you will attribute it to my want of ability, and not to any want of inclination to con vince you of the truth with which I have the honour to be, Sir, your moft obedient, and humble fervant, EFFINGHAM,

Peckham.

LETTER FROM DR. PRICE TO LIEUTENANT-COLONEL SHARMAN, &c.

I

SIR,

Think myfelf greatly honoured by the letter addreffed to me in the name of the committee of which you are chairman. It is indeed with more fatisfaction than I can exprefs, I find that the people of Ireland, after refcuing their trade and their legiflature from the oppreffion of a fifter kingdom, are now undertaking to refcue themfelves likewife from an internal oppref

ffon, no lefs inconfiftent with their liberty. The occafion is great, and the undertaking important and arduous in the highest degree. Should they be bleffed with fuccefs, they will have completed their own happinefs, and exhibited an example which will for ever fhine in the annals of mankind.. The fubjoined paper will show that I have been for fome time withing they

*To_the_armed VOLUNTIERS of IRELAND.

A native of England, but a citizen of the world, and a warm friend to univerfal liberty, congratulates them with great fatisfaction on their fuccefs in obtaining, without bloodshed, that precious bleffing for which torrents of blood have been thed in America; and, rejoicing in their emancipation, he wishes to propofe to them the following queries:

ift, Having feized the favourable opportunity which the war with America has offered them, fhould they not be anxious about improving it to the utmoft, from a conviction that fuch another opportunity may never offer itfelf?

zdly, Having fucceeded in making themfelves free externally, should it not be their next concern to make themfelves free internally? And while they want the one, can they poffefs any juft fecurity for the other?"

3dly, Is not a free and equal reprefentation effential to the internal liberty of a kingdom?

4thly, Is Ireland poffefied of fuch a reprefentation? Or, is not, on the contary, a vast majority of its Houfe

would

of Commons chofen, not by the people, but, as in England, by a few grandees and beggars?

5thly, By eftablishing an equal reprefentation, may not the people of Ireland do their fifter kingdom a moit important fervice, by provoking its emulation, and rendering it ashamed of its ow a corrupt and mock reprefentation?

6thly, Have they not reafon to expect, from the liberality of the new minifters, and the endeavours which fome of them are now ufing to gain an equal reprefentation of England, that they will rejoice to fee this work undertaken in Ireland, and give it their encouragement and fupport?

Laftly, Is it not, therefore, almost certain that the voluntiers and patriots of Ireland will eafily fucceed in this undertaking, if they fet themselves to it with that glorious zeal which they have hitherto difcovered, and by which they have exhibited to the world an example of public fpirit and virtue. fcarcely ever before known, and which muft render them the admiration of future ages?

would carry their views to this object. It was fhown to Mr. Grattan above a year ago, and written when the Duke of Richmond, the Earl of Shelburne, Lord Camden, Mr. Pitt, and other friends to a parliamentary reform were in power. We are now governed by an odious coalition, formed between whigs and the conductors of the late war, to gratify ambition and party rage by cenfuring the peace. Thefe united parties are in general hoftile to reformation; and this will make it more difficult for the people of Ireland to fucceed in their views: but nothing can be difficult to a people determined to recover their rights, IF UNANIMOUS AND FIRM. The motive commonly urged to check fuch exertions," not to ditturb what is quiet"-would prevent all improvements, and perpetuate darknefs and flavery amongit mankind. It would, in particular, had it influenced in America, have prevented the revolution in favour of the rights of mankind which has lately taken place there; and had it influenced Ireland, it would have prevented that emancipation of its trade and legislation, which has been Jately fo happily effected. The bleffings of legitimate government and a free conftitution are ineftimable. Too much cannot be facrificed to poffefs them; and no country poffeffes them where the body of the people, equally and fairly reprefented, have not the chief fhare in the powers of government.

I can by no means pretend to that degree of information and knowledge, which is neceffary to enable me to give any proper anfwer to the queries contained in your letter; and the fhortnefs of the time between this and the 20th of Auguft, together with the diffipated ftate I am now in at Brighthelmiton, will not allow me to be very full and explicit. The committee will, therefore, I hope, accept the following general obfervations, as the belt reply to their queries that I can at prefent give: The principles of civil liberty require that every independent agent in a ftate (that is, every one who can be fuppofed to have a will and judgement of his own) fhould have a voice in the choice of his governors. But it has been

595

feldom practicable to extend the right
of voting fo far. In America, where
ed, more liberal than any the world has
new forms of government are establish-
yet feen, this right is limited to perfons
who pay taxes and poffefs property.
Perhaps it may not be prudent in Ire-
land to go even this length. In these
cafes, to avoid the danger of lofing all
by aiming at too much, the attempts of
enlightened men fhould be governed by
confidering the prefent circumstances,
a regard to what is moft practicable,
and the attachment which always pre-
vails in a country to old establifhments.
In England I have wished that the
friends of reformation had confined
their views at prefent to the extenfion
of the right of voting to copy-holders
and leafe-holders; and the fubftitution
of a hundred knights for counties, for
a hundred members for boroughs.
This, though in theory unfpeakably
too little, would have been a very im-
portant reform; and lefs than this I
have not thought much worth con-
tending for. The people in Ireland
are more alive, and, therefore, proba-
bly, much more may be attempted there
with fuccefs. But how much more I
am not qualified to fay. Suppose the
right of voting was extended to all who
poffefs property of a certain value, and
every county divided into fix diftricts,
each of which fhould chufe one repre-
fentative, leaving the remaining repre-
tentatives to be chofen by the largest
towns and boroughs: would this be
too great an object? Is it too much to
be undertaken without destroying una-
nimity?

point of lefs confequence. If chofen
The duration of parliament feems a
by the people at large, they will be
fhort; for it is imponible that a people
fhould not fee that the long poffeflion
of power will corrupt, and that their
fecurity agairt an abafe of power de-
pends on keeping their reprefentatives
in a conftant state of dependence and
refponfibility.

not chofen by the people, fhortening
If, on the contrary, parliaments are
their duration will be no remedy. They
will not for this be lefs ufurpations and
mockeries.

4 G z

Annual

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