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II. OF R.]

Bank of United States-Pension Agency.

[FEB. 4, 184

ferred the whole bank question to that committee, so long construction of law? It claimed the indemnity on its om as it had been organized to his taste? But now, gentle- construction of its own charter. men held different language. It was not for him to im- Mr. BARRINGER here called Mr. C. to order. pugn the gentleman's motives. He was not at liberty to The CHAIR again decided him to be out of order. do so. But why had the gentleman cast an imputation on Mr. C. insisted that he was not out of order. He the committee, as grasping at every thing that came into going to show the identity of this question with the other the House? He defied the gentleman to point out a single If this question could not go to the Committee of W instance. But he would put to the gentleman one interrogatory. Was the Bank of the United States to be suffered to dictate to this Government, and that at the risk of the starvation of the pensioners?

and Means, then the other ought not to have gone ther The question under the bank's memorial was a questre of law; and he was showing, by analogy, that the a question of law ought to go to the same committee. The he conceived to be strictly in order. When that men rial came before the House, that would have been the time Mr. C. said that if he was not to be suffered to reply to to raise the objection that it was a law question. He d what had been said by other gentlemen, he would submit not know that any such objection had then been mad to the Chair. He had full confidence in the Committee but, if it had, the House acted upon it, and sent the m on the Judiciary, but hitherto all papers respecting the morial to the Committee of Ways and Means. That bank had been sent to the Committee of Ways and Means. a law question on a charter; this was a law question on He could not see why there was to be a division of the act of Congress. The Executive Department of G subject. After all, this was nothing less than the old ernment consisted of a Chief Magistrate. The Executi question of the removal of the deposites. It was in sub-had arrested the deposites, and it now demanded the p stance the same question which was already before that sion fund, and yet the bank had-what should he callcommittee. It was emphatically the question of the removal of the deposites. What did the law of 1832 say?

The CHAIR reminded the gentleman he was not in order.

the impudence to suggest that if they paid it over, the Executive would not give them credit for the money. But this was like all the other language of the bars That institution was accustomed to dictate to the Govere Mr. WATMOUGH here called Mr. C. to order. The CHAIR said he was very sorry the gentleman from Alabama exhibited such a determination to disregard the order of the House. He had repeatedly admonished the gentleman, yet still he persisted.

Mr. C. was here about to read the law, when the SPEAKER interposed, and again reminded him that he was out of order, and admonished him that, if he per-ment. sisted in thus violating order, he should enforce the rules of the House. The gentleman must be aware that the merits of the main question were not now to be discussed. Mr. C. said that there could be no need for the Speaker to inform him that the rules of the House would be enforced. He had not resisted the rule, but had insensibly Mr. C. said he would read one or two rules of the House, been drawn in to a reference to the subject of the papers. which he thought must settle the question. Mr. C. here He should, however, submit to the Chair, but would state read the 57th and 63d rules, and argued to show that they another reason why those papers should go to the Com- gave the papers to the Committee of Ways and Means; mittee of Ways and Means. Would the gentleman say and, then, after several times repeating the ground he had that the pensioners were to starve till the bank chose to formerly taken, at length resumed his seat. pay them? Was the Government to await the progress Mr. BARRINGER rose to explain. He wished to reof a law-suit, and, in the meanwhile, to suffer the men to ply to something very like an imputation upon him, which starve? He presumed gentlemen would not say that this had fallen from the gentleman from Alabama. The ge was intended. But how could it be prevented, but by ap- tleman had asked whether it was his desire that the per plying to the appropriate organ of the House for an sioners should starve? To this question he should reply appropriation? The bank was in possession of a fund in- that his object was to prevent their starvation. The 4th trusted to it for the purpose of paying the United States of March, which was pension day, was fast approaching; pensioners under the act of 1832. The bank refused to and, if these papers went to that all-absorbing vortes, deliver up the money to the organ appointed by the Ex- [Here the CHAIR called Mr. B. to order,] to which the ecutive. Would gentlemen say that the pensioners must gentleman wanted to doom them, that day would arrive, be left to starve till the bank chose to pay over the and nothing would have been done. He wished to send money, or was compelled by a suit to do so? He hoped them to a committee which would prepare the House for not, and therefore he was for sending the papers to a action, and report without delay. Which of the twe committee, and getting a new appropriation. The pres-ther, had the most desire to starve the pensioners? As ent debate had already lasted two months, and was likely to what the gentleman had said about the bank's getting to last two months more. In the mean while, the Com- no credit at the Treasury, the gentleman was mistaken in mittee of Ways and Means ought to have the subject re- quoting him on that subject. He had not said a word ferred to them. He had purposed to show that this was about it. The gentleman got all that out of the papers, the main question, but the Speaker had decided that it not from him.

was not competent for him to quote the laws of the United Mr. CLAY disclaimed any purpose of imputing to Mr. States. He presumed, however, that it was competent B. a desire to starve the pensioners. He had only meant for him to allude to what the gentleman from North Caro- to say that they would be likely to starve if Government lina [Mr. BARRINGER] had said. The bank, it seemed, had to wait the progress of a suit. was afraid that it should not get credit at the Treasury for Mr. CHILTON said, it mattered little to him what com the money it paid over. Was there any gentleman who mittee got these papers. It would not be in order for would presume to say that this fear was well founded? him to suppose that any committee of the House would Who believed it? Who could believe it? It surpassed fail in discharging its duty; but the question, as to what the credulity of man, far! far! No man could believe it; committee such a subject pertained, connected itself with no man did believe it. There was not an officer or di- the nature of the subject. He could assure gentlemen rector of the bank who believed it. Why, then, was it that, in any remarks he had to make, he should carefully offered as an apology? The bank had formerly presented abstain from any violation of the rules of order. He had a memorial, demanding indemnity for the removal of the regretted to witness the very many attempts of the gene deposites. This was but another part of the same ques- tleman upon his left to get at the merits of the main ques tion. He could not distinguish between them. What tion. The gentleman had not only been repeatedly called was involved in the bank's memorial but a question of the to order by the Chair, but had been reminded, in whisp

FEB. 4, 1834.]

Bank of United States--Pension Agency.

[H. OF R.

ers, by his friends around him, of the delicate situation of proved of it. The question between the bank and the the presiding officer, and that the Speaker had thereby Secretary at War (said Mr. B.) is not the question immebeen restrained from doing what he might otherwise have diately before the House. The principal question resupposed his duty.to require. Indeed, so numerous and gards the construction of the act of 7th June, 1832. The so various had been the attempts of the honorable gentle- question before the House is upon the reference of the man to get into the merits, that it strongly reminded him President's message to one of two committees. Upon the of a story he had once heard about a schoolboy who was construction of the act of June, 1832, the president of the in the habit of being tardy in his attendance upon school; bank has expressed one opinion, the Attorney General a who, coming very late one winter morning, was sternly different opinion. Which is right, and which wrong, is interrogated by the master on the subject, and replied not now to be decided, but only what is the most apthat the roads were so slippery with ice, that he could not propriate disposition of the subject, to put it in train for get there any sooner; he had done his best; but whenever decision by the House. The House is not only precluded he took one step forward, he slid two steps backwards. by the rules of order, as the Speaker has stated, from dis"You lying little dog," replied the master, "if that had cussing the principal question, but must at present be been the case, how could you have got here at all?" wholly unprepared for that discussion. I observe, sir, "Why, sir,” replied the boy, "when I found how the from the papers read at the Clerk's table, that the letter matter was, I turned round about, and came here back-of Mr. Biddle to the Secretary at War, which presents a ward."

[This sally excited loud laughter, and the CHAIR called to order.]

clear, and, it appears to me, a candid statement of his view of the duties imposed by law upon the bank, was written on the 23d January, and that the opinion of the Mr. C. then went on to argue that, if this question re- Attorney General, which has been sent to this House toferred to the raising of money to pay the pensioners, then day, bears the date of yesterday; so that his view of the it would legitimately belong to the Committee of Ways case could never have been communicated to the bank, and Means; but no such matter was in controversy; there nor has the bank had an opportunity to consider the arguwas no question how the means were to be provided. ment which that officer has submitted to the President. The means were already provided. The question was,The bank has, therefore, not only not opposed the reasonwhether the money should be paid by A or B. While ing of the Attorney General, but it has had no opportuit had hitherto been paid at one point, it was now sought nity either to assent to it or to examine it. Mr. Biddle's to have it paid at another; and the whole question turned letter, consequently, not being an answer to, or an examon the words of a statute. He would ask any candid man ination of, the Attorney General's opinion, as it perhaps (and he trusted in God he addressed a body of candid would have been had he been apprized of it; the mem men,) whether this was not a question for the Committee bers of the House must themselves make the examination, on the Judiciary? Supposing a question of law was raised before they can be prepared to discuss the principal quesin court: on the one side was the judge, on the other the tion. Gentleman must, therefore, dismiss this question steward, whose business it was to supply the judges and for the present from their consideration. other officers with food and accommodation. To which There is another matter, sir, which may be dismissed of these persons ought the question of law to be referred from consideration with equal profit. The gentleman to the judge or the steward? The Executive understood from Alabama has asked whether the bank desired that this matter perfectly. The moment the difficulty was the old soldier shall starve? and something like this is the presented to him, to whom did he go? He went to the strain of the message. Sir, if the question were whether law officer of the Government. He sent for the Attorney the old soldier should starve-if it were a question beGeneral. He could see in a moment that it belonged to tween the bank and the old soldier-I have a personal rethe judicial department, and not to the fiscal. For what gard for the soldier, which, placed in opposition to what end was a Judiciary Committee raised at all? Were they is at most an impersonal regard for the bank, would make to have nothing to do? He had heard a gentleman who me, I fear, a very partial judge of the issue. But the belonged to the Committee of Ways and Means, (not the question, under the act of June, 1832, is not whether the gentleman who stood at the head of it, but the gentleman old soldier shall be paid, but who shall pay him; and if who was at the other end of the committee,) observe, that the Secretary of War wishes him to be paid, he has nothhe should consider it an imputation on the committee if ing to do, while the House are settling the construction of these papers were withheld from it. But might not the the act, but to recall the order given to the bank not to Judiciary Committee more justly consider it a flagrant pay him. The bank, it seems, is both willing and desiviolation of order and propriety to withhold from them a rous to pay to the extent of all the funds in hand. The naked question of law? A gentleman from Alabama had commissioner of pensions has directed the bank not to pay; asked, whether it was not a money question? He an- and the bank has said, and ought to have said, that it will swered yes, it was a money question, but not a question conform to the order, while it remains in force. If the as to the raising of money. The question was, who was Secretary at War does not wish the old soldier to starve, to pay the money? Whom did the law appoint to pay it? the recall of that order will doubtless produce immediate And this was a law question. If it were in order to go payment to the pensioner. If he starves by the order of into the inuendos of the gentleman from Alabama, he the Department, it will be a matter of great regret. This should really be delighted to do so. He had seen the question concerning the old soldier may, therefore, be rising stormput aside for the present, with the principal question.

The merits of the immediate inquiry are in a narrow

The CHAIR here called Mr. C. to order. It was not in order, (the Speaker said,) to go into subjects of a per-compass; and, if it did not happen in this, as in most other sonal kind. If the gentleman had finished his argument, he must take his seat.

Mr. C. replied, jocosely, that he had really thought that he was himself the best judge whether he had finished his speech, or not; but, if the Speaker thought otherwise, he should certainly take his seat; and he sat down.

debates on this floor, that collateral circumstances are brought in to force the mind from the real question, there could be no difficulty in arriving at the truth. The bank entertains the opinion that, by the acceptance of the pension agency under the laws of Congress, though it is burdensome and costly, and one that it has voluntarily unMr. BINNEY said he thought he understood the rule dertaken to perform, at its own expense, in aid of the of order which the Speaker had been compelled so fre- Government, and not one that it was originally bound to quently to state to some of the honorable gentlemen who perform, still, that having undertaken to perform it, it had preceded him, and that he both adopted and ap-must continue so to do, until discharged by law.

It sup

H. OF R.]

Bank of United States-Pension Agency.

[FB. 4, 1854

diciary Committee than such a question; and the rule the House must be so understood as to give that com tee cognizance of every question of a judicial charac and not as confining them to matters in a course of cial litigation. To take this matter from that commit is to say that they have not the confidence of the Hove Whatever may be the language of gentlemen, their n will say this, if they give it to the Committee of W and Means.

poses that this is its duty, under all the pension laws, in- whether that difference should be left to the departmen cluding the act of 7th June, 1832. It sets up no right that interprets the laws, or should be remedied by t whatever-it pretends to nothing of the kind: it supposes law. Nothing can belong more appropriately to the that it is bound by law to pay these pensions as well as the others, and at its own expense; and, being so bound, it supposes that the Secretary at War has not the right to transfer the books, papers, and funds to other agents in the same place. Up to the act of 7th June, 1832, and as to all previous pensions, the Secretary at War admits that the bank is right. The Attorney General is of opinion, as it regards the pensions under the act of June, 1832, that the bank is wrong, and the President refers the matter to Congress for their action. The simple question is, to which of two committees-that of the Ways and Means, or that on the Judiciary a reference will be most appropriate.

Sir, the gentleman from Alabama says that this is pr of the question of the deposites. It has nothing to de the deposites. If it had, the Secretary of the Treas must remove it, and not the Secretary at War. Itars in bank as a public deposite, but as an appropriation pu to that bank and its branches, as pension agents appott by Congress, and only removable by them. At least, is the question in controversy.

Sir, to the due preparation and despatch of the business of the House, a regard to the organization adopted by the House is indispensable. If the special design of the different committees is not to be regarded, the House may as well divide its body into convenient sections, and let In addition to these general views, sir, there are t the business go to them by hazard or in rotation. The or- reasons why I think this subject should not go t ganization framed by the House ought not to be deranged, Committee of Ways and Means, even if it belonge and therefore the proper functions of the two committees them appropriately; and I state these reasons as le should decide the matter of reference, and nothing else tain them, without any reference to the present str should be permitted to affect it. What are they? The or composition of that committee. The first is this: F Ways and Means are a committee whose functions are in- my position in the committee, I am able to say that e dicated by their name. Their proper business is to pre-course of the committee has been, hitherto, in my m pare plans for raising revenue, for protecting it from above exception-every thing transacted before it t waste and misapplication, and for appropriating it to the ing been done in a spirit of courtesy and amity. B particular purposes of Government; and nothing that has sir, it has an immense mass of exciting matter ye not a connexion, direct or incidental, with these duties, attend to; and if the questions of the deposites, and ought, either upon general principles or by the rules of bank, and the currency, and the trade of the country, the House, to go to that committee. The rules of the to come up before it, what is likely to be their effect House are framed upon this hypothesis. Now this mes-upon the discussion and decision of a question wholly un sage does not present a question having any such connex- connected with any of them-a dry question upon the ion, direct or remote. There is no question of revenue, pension laws? safe-keeping, appropriation, or expenditure, but a simple question of agency in making a disbursement that has not been made, and which all agree must be made; and this question turns upon the interpretation of an existing law or laws, regulating or affecting the agency to make that disbursement.

The

Sir, we may expect, while man is man, that the feeings excited by one inquiry will disturb and derange the other; and that we shall have any thing but the result cool and dispassionate judgment upon it, seeing that the Bank of the United States is one of the parties. other reason, and the last which I shall submit to Sir, the gentleman from Alabama has asked, upon what House, is this. I address it particularly to the friends principle is it that the memorials of the banks, of boards the old soldier. If the Department of War will not W of trade, and of the merchants of New York, have been draw the order they have given to the bank not to p referred to the Committee of Ways and Means, and that this House ought to desire an instant action upon the qu it is proposed to refer, in like manner, the Secretary's tion. It should be settled immediately whether the law letter on the deposites, if this message is not to be so re- to remain as it stands, or to be superseded by a new las ferred? I will tell him. All those papers present a ques- If it goes to the Committee on the Judiciary, the active tion which has a double aspect. In one point of view, that committee will be prompt, and we shall separate they regard the rights of the bank under their charter; least one subject from the mass of controversy that t and, had this stood alone, I should have said the Commit public deposites have raised: but if it goes to the Wa tee on the Judiciary was the appropriate committee. But and Means, there is not only the question how it wil they also present the questions of the actual condition of decided, but when it will be decided. Doubtless, str the treasury, in point of security, of the influence of that the greater will draw to itself the less-the accessory me condition upon the amount of the revenue, and upon the folow the principal-the pension question must alle future value of the revenue as it may be affected by a de- upon the bank and the currency question; and we sh ranged currency. Had the inquiry been asked on this find the question of the pension laws and the old sok second aspect alone, all must have agreed that the sub- overlaid and smothered by the question of the deposi ject belonged to the Committee of Ways and Means. The and the charter. When it will be decided no one ca difficulty or inexpediency of dividing the questions has led tell. For one, I shall be happy if, either at the end f to the reference of the whole subject on both aspects to two mouths, or of three months, that committee; and, although I proposed a division, I session, we shall find the House at the conclusion of ar have nothing to say, at this time, against the judgment of of those questions. I do not expect it. My apprehes

the House.

But, sir, the question under the message is purely a judicial question; and whatever is to be the action of the House, if it act at all, its measures should be prepared by the Committee on the Judiciary. It belongs to that committee to inquire whether the existing law is what one of the opinions communicated to this House asserts it to be,

and not what the opposite opinion asserts it to be; and

or at the close of this

fore, that the matter will be permitted to go to the dr sion is of still more protracted delay. I hope, sir, there mittee on the Judiciary, that it may be immediately dis posed of. If it goes to the Committee of Ways and Mean my impressions and fears are, that we shall see it adjuste only when we adjust the question of the public deposite have the legal question inquired into and reported upon, Mr. BELL, of Tennessee, said, if it was the object to

EB. 4, 1834.]

Bank of United States-Pension Agency.

[H. OF R.

en, according to parliamentary practice and the rules dered. It is neither more nor less than this. There is no the House, the subject ought to be referred to the Ju- question concerning a sum to be raised, nor any concerniciary Committee; not, however, because that committee ing an appropriation to be raised; but whether some as more competent to the duty, but because it related other officer shall be selected to pay the pensions. The » duties assigned to them. If he was compelled to say President's call on the Attorney General for a legal opinhich committee embraced the best legal ability, he ion shows that, in his judgment, at least, it is a legal quesould say that it was the Committee of Ways and Means; tion requiring a legal investigation. Had it been a quesit that was not the question. If, again, the object of tion of finance, the Secretary of the Treasury, not the Ate inquiry was to find where the blame of the transac- torney General, would have been called on to express an on lay, or to institute a legal proceeding against the opinion. This is therefore a presumptive proof that the ank, the Judiciary Committee was the proper one. If question is within the peculiar jurisdiction of the Commite are to go to a legislative act, and express a declara- tee on the Judiciary, not the Committee of Ways and ry law of the meaning of the act of 1832, the subject Means.

longs to the Judiciary Committee. But if the House He regretted that his friends, or those with whom he inks that a regard for the public interests requires that voted and concurred in opinion on the deposite question, e agents should be changed, that by a new law new should intermingle this subject with that. He considered gents should be constituted for the disbursement of pen- it better not to have them entangled. By the bank chartons, then the subject belongs properly to the Commit- er, the Secretary of the Treasury has full power to reee of Ways and Means. move the deposites from the United States Bank, if he assigns sufficient reasons for his so doing. But the present subject is, whether one officer or agent shall be preferred to another. The Committee of Ways and Means have such an accumulation of business before them, that they will not have time, even if they have inclination, to devote that attention requisite to the pension agency of the bank. With that committee it must necessarily be but auxiliary to the main question, which would be reported on, perhaps, previously to considering this question; and the pension agency must be suspended in the interval. But when it is exhibited as an isolated question, consigned to the Judiciary Committee, who have less business on hand, it will receive proper and prompt attention.

Mr. FOSTER said, that though a member of the Judiiary Committee, he was averse to engaging in this conest between committees. But the importance of the uestion involved here induced him to express his opinion. Ve could make no question, it seemed, which was not volved with the deposite question. We placed the pen on fund under the control of the Secretary of War. The ecretary placed it in the Bank of the United States, not s a place of deposite, but as the agent for disbursing the ind. The Secretary had no control over the money. Why has the question been given to the Attorney Geneal? Because it was a question of the construction of a w. The Committee of Ways and Means had nothing to o with the question, because the money had long since een appropriated.

Mr. WAYNE expressed the opinion that the duties asgned to the Committee of Ways and Means related to he appropriation of money, and to the proper and legal isbursement of the money appropriated. Now the quesion arose, under the law of 1832, who should make the fisbursement? and it fell upon the Committee of Ways and deans to consider how the money was to be disbursed, in conformity with the law. The disbursement of a fund was necessarily connected with the subject of the revenue, and therefore belonged to the Committee of Ways and

Means.

&c. due to it. Its authority being now ample, no additional will be required; and as it has not been thought proper to appeal to judicial proceedings under this authority, no such proceedings can be contemplated by an appeal to Congress to arm the Government with further powers.

Mr. BEARDSLEY thought that a due consideration of the rules of the House, which explain the proper functions of the several standing committees, would point to the committee under whose jurisdiction this subject more immediately comes. The object of the Judiciary Committee is stated in the 63d rule to be limited to judicial proceedings. Now there is no topic of that kind before the House, no judicial proceedings in any court, nor any action of that nature, to obtain the moneys and papers withheld by the bank from the Secretary of War; and as there are not now any judicial proceedings, the House cannot contemplate any. If the Executive required to institute Mr. LANE said that, upon examination, he had found an action on the subject, there is already sufficient power hat the question presented by the message was intimate-invested in the Government for the recovery of all moneys, y connected with the subjects heretofore referred to the Committee of Ways and Means. He understood the 57th ule of the House to devolve this subject expressly upon hat committee. By the 57th rule, it was made the duty of he Committee of Ways and Means "to examine particuarly into the laws making appropriations of moneys, and o report whether the moneys have been disbursed con- The bank has received an appropriation of $500,000 ormably with such laws." If this was a controversy for the pension agency fund. The control over this fund whether one or another should disburse the pension fund, has been given to the Secretary of War, who has the apt belonged, by the very letter of the rule, to the Com-pointment of what agents he pleases in the management nittee of Ways and Means. The 63d rule assigns duties of the concerns of his department. If the bank will not to the Committee on the Judiciary touching all judicial pay the pensions which will be payable in March, and reproceedings. Would any one say that this was a judicial fuses to submit to a transfer of the pension fund, then question-whether money was to be disbursed by A or B must Congress be required to order another appropriaIt was said that the President had sent the papers here tion for that purpose. This is surely not the business of without motive. He was very happy to hear it acknow- the Committee on the Judiciary, nor of the Committee on ledged, for once, that the President had sent us documents Pensions, nor of any other committee but that of Ways without any unworthy motives. The gentleman from and Means. By the 57th rule, the functions of this last Pennsylvania says, that the communication from the pres-committee extend to the control of every thing relating ident of the bank is full, clear, and candid. Yes, sir; to collecting, keeping, and appropriating the revenues or all that comes from the bank is pure and unsullied as moneys of the nation. This committee is to decide con

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cerning the means of raising revenue, and the mode whereby it is to be expended. The subject is therefore strictly referrible to the Committee of Ways and Means.

Mr. McKINLEY asserted that the question really is, the jurisdiction of the respective committees. Now, as

H. OF R.]

Bank of United States-Pension Agency-Removal of the Deposites.

[FEB. 4, 5, 184

D. J. Pearce, Peyton, Franklin Pierce, Pierson, P
Pope, Schenck, Shinn, Charles Slade, Smith, Speg
Standifer, Stoddert, Sutherland, William Taylor, Fr
Thomas, J. Thomson, Turner, Turrill, Vanderprel,
Houten, Wagener, Ward, Wardwell, Wayne, Wes
Whallon, C. P. White.-107.

every Executive Department is accountable to the Comert Mitchell, Murphy, Osgood, Page, Parks, Patterson, mittee of Ways and Means for the due discharge of its du ties, and as this committee is to investigate every transac tion relative to the receipts and expenditures of the national treasury, were the question one on an action to recover money, it might belong to the Judiciary Committee; but where it involves the accountability of an agent in the disbursement of the public funds, it is a question NAYS.-Messrs. J. Q. Adams, Heman Allen, C. Als properly within the cognizance of the Committee of Ways Archer, Ashley, Barber, Barnitz, Barringer, B and Means. Baylies, Beaty, James M. Bell, Binney, Bo Mr. BELL, of Tennessee, explained. He stated that the Briggs, Bull, Burd, Cage, Carr, Chambers, C alternative of reference should be decided only according Choate, Claiborne, William Clark, Clayton, Clow to the object contemplated by the reference. If the Corwin, Coulter, Crane, Crockett, Darlington, W House merely sought to have an investigation of a legal Davis, Amos Davis, Davenport, Deberry, Deming, De question, and to have an opinion expressed in a report of Dennis, Duncan, Evans, Edward Everett, Horace Every a committee on that subject, then should the reference Ewing, Felder, Fillmore, Foot, Foster, P. C. Fuller, be made to the Judiciary Committee; but if something ton, Gamble, Gilmer, Gordon, Gorham, Graham, 67farther, if legislative action consequent on a legal investi- son, Grennell, Griffin, Hiland Hall, Hard, Hardin, Jangation, be required, then should the reference be to the Harper, Hazeltine, Hiester, Jabez W. Huntington, Committee of Ways and Means. So if it is only to try Johnson, Seaborn Jones, Laporte, Lay, Lewis, Lar who is wrong in the construction of the act relative to the Martindale, Marshall, Mardis, McComas, McKay, Ma agency of the pension fund, still it is the province of the nan, Milligan, Muhlenberg, Parker, Patton, Pinc Judiciary Committee; but if it is to try whether the bank Potts, Ramsay, Reed, Rencher, Schley, Selden, Wa shall continue its agency, or if it is thought necessary to B. Shepard, Augustine H. Shepperd, William S change the paying agents and officers of the pension fund Sloane, Spangler, Stewart, P.Thomas, Tompkins, Twe in accordance with the new fiscal arrangements contem- Vance, Vinton, Watmough, E. D. White, Elisha Whit plated by the Executive Government, then the subject sey, Wilde, Williams, Wilson, Wise, Young.-106 devolves on the Committee of Ways and Means; for to So the papers went to the Committee of Ways this committee, and not to any other, belongs the ques- Means. tion of agency in all matters affecting the national revenue. To continue former agents, or appoint new ones, belongs more properly to the Committee of Ways and Means than to the Judiciary Committee.

Mr. BRIGGS called for the reading of the first part of the message.

The question was now loudly demanded, and was about to be taken, when

Mr. DENNY said, that as it had been hinted that the old soldiers were likely to starve, and as he was the professed friend of the old soldier, he would move the following instructions:

And the House adjourned at sunset.

WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 5.

THE DEPOsite questION. After the usual morning business, the deposite question coming up in order, and Mr. ARCHER being entitled the floor, he rose, and was about to address the Has. when

Mr. McKINLEY asked leave, before he proceeded, t give a notice to the House.

Mr. ARCHER having yielded the floor, "And that the said committee be instructed to report Mr. McKINLEY said, that it had been ascertained to a bill, directing the Secretary of War to rescind his order, the Secretary's letter, on the removal of the depos by which the Bank of the United States is prohibited from had been referred to the Committee of Finance in paying to the soldiers of the revolution, and other per- other House; and he now wished to give notice that we sons, the pensions directed by law to be paid to them; the gentleman from Virginia should have closed his spec and to report such other provisions as shall secure to the he hoped that every member would come prepared soldiers of the revolution, and others, the regular pay- bring the present question to a conclusion. Shou ment in par money of their pensions by the agents, and papers go to a committee, and a report be given is, at the places and times already designated by law, or which shall be hereafter designated by law." Mr. MANN, of New York, moved the previous question. It was seconded by the House, ayes 109-put, and carried by yeas and nays, 119 to 96.

general question would still remain open, and every tleman would have a full opportunity of expressing views; and should they even fail in referring it t Committee of Ways and Means, which he hoped should not, the same opportunity would still be g He therefore repeated that he hoped all would come pared to bring the question to a termination. It wa their intention to coerce a termination of it, but to đổ deavor to obtain it in the regular way, YEAS.-Messrs. John Adams, W. Allen, Beale, Bean, the gentleman from Alabama, he had risen for the Mr. J. Q. ADAMS said that if he had rightly understa Beardsley, Beaumont, John Bell, James Blair, John Blair, pose of giving a notice to the House; and, if he l Bockce, Bodle, Boon, Brown, Bunch, Burns, Cambreleng, heard him correctly, the notice was that every body Carmichael, Casey, Chaney, S. Clark, Clay, Coffee, Connor, be ready for the question as soon as the gentleman fr Cramer, Day, Dickerson, Dickinson, Dunlap, Forester, Virginia [Mr. ARCHER] should take his seat. If that s Fowler, W. K. Fuller, Gillet, Joseph Hall, T. H. Hall, not the notice, what was it?

[This decision cut off Mr. DENNY's proposed amend. ment.]

The main question, on referring the memorial to the Committee of Ways and Means, was then decided by yeas and nays-yeas 107, nays 106.

Halsey, Hamer, Hannegan, Joseph M. Harper, Harrison, Mr. McKINLEY said he was sorry he should have
Hathaway, Hawkins, Hawes, Heath, Henderson, Howell, posed himself to criticism by the phrase he had
Hubbard, Abel Huntington, Inge, Jarvis, Richard M. What he meant had been only to express his wish
Johnson, Noadiah Johnson, Cave Johnson, Benjamin the question would be speedily taken.
Jones, Kavanagh, Kinnard, Lane, Lansing, Lawrence,
Luke Lea, Thomas Lee, Leavitt, Lyon, Lytle, Abijah in continuation of his speech commenced on the 29th
Mr. ARCHER then proceeded to address the Has
Mann, J. K. Mann, Moses Mason, McIntyre, McKim, Mc- January, on the removal of the deposites; the whole
Kinley, McLene, McVean, Miller, Henry Mitchell, Rob- which is given entire below.

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