that although this had been done at the instance and requisition of both houses of parliament in Ireland, Ireland was not satisfied with it; and seeing that, as the true friend to both countries, he endeavoured to draw that line of relation betwixt the two, which the interest of each seemed to call for and require, and in which he felt himself upholden, maintained, and supported by the constitution of England.

In considering the subject, two things occurred to his observation; one the right, which this country had exercised of internal legislation over Ireland; the other, the right, which this country possessed of external legislation over Ireland, so far as that legislation regarded the navigation and commerce of that kingdom. With respect to the first, the right of internal legislation, it was clear to him, that no right so manifestly in the teeth of the constitution of this country, however it had been exercised, could on principle be maintained; for as it was a fundamental principle of the constitution, that legislation and representation were inseparable, therefore inasmuch as Ireland was not represented in the British parliament, Ireland could not be subject to the legislature of the British parliament; but of the right of external legislation, so far as it respected the navigation and commerce of that kingdom, his opinion and judgment were the very reverse: that right being founded on the right to the dominion of the sea, was a common law right, a fundamental right coequal with the constitution of this country, he found it so laid down passim in all our common law books, as well as expressly declared in the statute of the 20th of Henry VI. chap. 9. to wit:'

"The parliament of England cannot bind Ireland, as to their lands, for they have a parliament there; but they may bind them as to things transitory, as the shipping of wool, or merchandise, to the intent to carry it to another place beyond sea." An authority, which whilst it maintained the rights of external legislation quoad the commerce of Ireland, it defeated the right of internal legislation, for the reason given, namely, " for that "they have a parliament there."

He asked if the people of Ireland wished to remain subjects of the crown of England? If they did, the moment that bill passed, they were no longer so. For the subjects of the crown of England must be, and are, of continual necessity, under the legislative authority of this country. The crown itself is under the legislative authority of this country, and of course those, who are dependant upon this crown, so far as the constitution admits of it, must be so too. That they may be subjects of the king of England, is true, and so they will be; and so are the people of Hanover subjects of the king of England; but does

Ireland wish to be upon the footing of Hanover with this country? and yet the case must and will be so. Suppose an act of parliament were to pass, restraining the prerogative of the crown in any given instance with respect to Ireland, would not Ireland be bounden by that act of parliament? Must not Ireland submit to that act of parliament? For how could Ireland oppose or resist it but by an act of rebellion, if the people of Ireland be the subjects of the crown of England, and the crown of England be subject to the legislation of England? Do the people of Ireland wish to have seats in the British parliament? This bill incapacitates them from being members of the British legislature. It was by acts of parliament, that the right of sitting in the two houses of parliament was regulated; and the people of Ireland not being to be bounden by acts of parliament, they are in so much aliens, quoad their claim to this right. From the moment that act did pass, the Irish were no longer our fellow subjects. If that right be in us, that right is delegated to us, and no delegated right is, or can be in its nature transferable. This is sound constitutional doctrine, and not to be opposed; besides, at best this is but an act of parliament, and all acts of parliament are repealable; and then the right reverts to its fundamental source. Let the Irish remember, that the 6th of George I. has been repealed.

The Duke of Richmond said, that in many respects he agreed with the noble earl, and must do him the justice to say, he never heard a series of arguments better digested. His grace went over much of the old ground, and amongst other things their lordships would be pleased to consider, that not only in regard to peace and war, in regard to rivalship in commerce, in regard to ecclesiastical matters, the separation created by the present bill would be materially alarming to England. Suppose that England should have occasion to go to war, and Ireland should find herself disposed to remain at peace, should refuse to give aid, and furnish her quotas to the cause of the empire; suppose that in negociations for peace, the terms agreed on by the English ministers, should be objected to by the Irish; suppose that in regulations and treaties of commerce with foreign states the Irish should contend with the English, in these and a thousand other possible suppositions, was it possible that this total separation could be submitted to by the people of England? But there were other most important dangers to be apprehended. All these arguments powerfully bore upon the ultimate necessity of an incorporate union, without which the two kingdoms must be constantly exposed, to these monstrous anomalies and mischiefs in government. These were reasons that made it indispensably necessary for their lordships to enquire whether this was to be followed by any other measure, and whether the

present ministers had adopted it as a part of a system, upon which the mutual connection of the two countries was to be established. This was particularly necessary to be known, on account of the very unaccountable and opposite mixture of opi nion and principle that existed in the cabinet at that time. It was impossible that he, or that any man could rationally trust to the measures of an administration, where the principles were so opposite antl contradictory; one part of which he revered as much as he reprobated the other. The noble duke severely animadverted upon Lord North's conduct respecting Ireland, and endeavoured to prove, that the noble lord had been the cause of all the uneasiness and oppression felt and complained of by Ireland, and of her taking up arms to do herself justice, when she found the British parliament would do nothing for her. His Grace stated the frequent attempts made to relieve her trade in trifling particulars, all of which were defeated by the opposition of local interests. He mentioned the bill allowing her to import her own sugars, which he said was ultimately defeated by the interposition of Lord North, on a division of 64 to 58; he afterwards stated the declaration of a noble earl at that time at the head of his majesty's councils (Earl Gower) at the end of the session of 1779 (that the address then moved respecting Ireland by the Marquis of Rockingham, should not be opposed, if the censure of ministers were taken out) the accompanying promise, that something for the relief of Ireland should be thought of against the next session, and the noble earl's subsequent resignation of his office, and his informing the house when parliament met again, that his reason for having quitted his majesty's councils was, "because the promise "he had ventured to make to their lordships had not been "fulfilled, and nothing had been done for Ireland." His Grace dwelt on these particulars for some time, and then took the liberty of asking from the noble duke, who was at the head of the new administration, not what was to be his system, but whether or not it were the design of the cabinet to follow up this bill with others; and whether this were only a part, or the whole of their system with regard to the settlement of the relative situation of the two kingdoms?

The Duke of Portland said, that it would be a very improper thing for him to divulge prematurely the purposes of the king's ministers. He always had been, and always should be ready, to do every thing in his power to cement the connection between Great Britain and Ireland, on terms of mutual affection and mutual interest. He therefore most heartily concurred in the present bill; he submitted to the candour of the house whether it were fair to suspect until there was an appearance of guilt, and whether it were right to call upon him for official communications

future measures or designs. Beside, their lordships would recollect how very short the time was since they had come into office, and in fairness they could not be expected to be fully informed of the various topics in the offices.

Lord Thurlow professed, that he could not see any thing unseasonable or improper in the question, which the noble Duke had asked. It was applicable to the occasion, and he thought, that without being satisfied on the point, their lordships could not fairly be called to the decision of the present question. What was the question? Was the present bill the whole or only the part of a system? On what grounds was it to be adopted by the present ministers? For what purpose was it to be passed? To what end was it to be applied? In all this was there any thing, which in the smallest degree, could give embarrassment to ministers in answering? There had been full time from Friday to Monday, to have examined every paper on the subject: and what made this appear more singular, was, that many of those papers must have come from the noble duke himself, and a noble earl his now colleague in administration; would not their lordships then suppose, that no men could have been fixed on so capable of speedily determining what was expected, and what ought to be done to secure a lasting and permanent connection with our sister kingdom? and yet these men, according to their own accounts, were the most improper and incapable of all persons living. He said he could not but lament the frequent changes, which revolutions in politics in this kingdom made in the lord lieutenants of that country. The people were scarcely settled with a representative of the crown, before intelligence arrived, that they were to part with him, and that another was appointed in his stead. This circumstance was sufficient to make them have a very poor opinion of the councils of this country, and that we were guided by caprice, whim, and unsteadiness: the present nobleman who filled that high office, by his generosity, his large connections in both countries, his affability and integrity, had won their good opinion in a short time; and this was no sooner done than their favourite was to be taken from them.

Lord Loughborough said, that on this question he had no peculiar means of acquiring information with respect to the designs of the cabinet. He had no other information than as lord of parliament, and as such, he must declare freely, that he thought the present conversation, for it was not a debate, on the merits of the bill, extremely irregular, if not disorderly. Not a word was started in objection to the bill as to itself, but ministers were called upon to divulge their future system, and to declare what they were to be to the house. He did not think this

perfectly consistent with fairness, nor was it the kind of opposition, which any ministry would have reason to dread.

Lord Viscount Townshend said, it was not candid nor fair to demand from ministers, at so early a period after their introduction to office, the system which they were to pursue with Ireland. This, at least, was evident; that if they meant to act a fair, a manly, and an honest part, the present bill was necessary, since it confirmed what was done in the last session, and none of those alarming evils were to be apprehended from it. The fluctuation of Irish opinions was easily to be accounted for. The incessant change of the government must naturally give rise to fresh jealousies and new opinions, and while this very great evil continued, it was impossible that we could expect to see our sister kingdom truly and permanently fixed in her system and sentiments. He declared it was his opinion, that for want of acting unequivocally on former occasions, all our misfortunes, including even the loss of America, had arisen; that what they felt in their own breasts should govern their public conduct; and the national honour, like the personal honour of their lordships, should be deemed sacred, and on no account to be violated. Public credit depended on the public faith; the abandonment of the latter consequently must prove the ruin of the former. After a very heated debate and personal reflections from the Duke of Chandos and Lord Radnor upon the new ministers having seized on the reins of government by force, and outraged royalty by peremptory conditions, the bill was committed without a dissenting voice.

No bill ever produced more debates, yet it never brought on one division. And it must be allowed, that under the variety of changes, which the British ministry experienced at that critical period, they all centred in one accord, to give ease, satisfaction, and perfect constitutional liberty to Ireland. There cannot be a more unimpeachable voucher, than the *act for finally settling the independent legislation and judicature of Ireland.

The act 23 George III. c. 28. intituled, "An Act for preventing and re"moving all doubts which have arisen, or may arise, concerning the exclu"sive rights of the parliament and courts of Ireland, in matters of legislation "and judicature; and for preventing any writ of error or appeal from any of "his majesty's courts in that kingdom from being received, heard, and adjudged, in any of his majesty's courts in the kingdom of Great Britain." "Whereas by an act of the last session of this present parliament, intituled, "An Act to repeal an act, made in the 6th year of the reign of his late majes"ty King George I. intituled, An Act for the better securing the dependancy "of the kingdom of Ireland upon the crown of Great Britain, it was enacted, "That the said last mentioned act, and all matters and things therein con"tained, should be repealed: And whereas doubts have arisen whether the "provisions of the said act are sufficient to secure to the people of Ireland the " rights claimed by them to be bound only by laws enacted by his majesty and