find you have no regard to their Maties' interest. I must give their Maties an accompt of the truth as I find it.

Mr. Speaker. May it please the Gor not to be offended with me. There might be a mistake of the Clarke in writting a word in the votes the night befor Last, wher the house had under consideraon to give some monie to the Late deputy Governor Lloyd & to Gor Markham, and the remainder to the Governor. It was no disrespect to the Gor. that the Governor was Last named.

His Excell. Mr Speaker, I never took notice of anie personall abuse of that nature; you mistake me, if you think me of the opinion and humor of some that have been Latelie in authoritie here, to use the power and dignity their Maties have conferred upon me, above other men in a personall abuse. I did not take anie notice of it, some others that see them were pleased to doe. I come here to serve their Maties by their Command; am Concerned to see the time goe away and nothing done.

Mr Speaker. May it please the Governor, John the Baptist came before Jesus Christ, and yet hee said hee was not worthie to Untye the shose of him that cometh after; wee doe not think that either the Late deputy Gor or Livet. Gor Markham is near so great as the Governor. Thou must not therfore take it amiss of us, for wee truelie honor thee, & will take care to ansr the king & Queen's demands. Governor, ther was a Remonstrance which wee did offer formerlie to the Governor, and the Governor did reject the same; wee have made some alteraon & doe now offerr it.

His Excell. You are mistaken that I did reject it. I did onlie advise you as yor friend, to withdraw it, having used some scurrilous terms, as false suggestions, &c., which might no wayes tend to yor interest, but hurt when seen at Whitehall; you may read that. TO BENJN FLETCHER, Esqur., Captain Generall & Governor in Cheif in and over the province of pennsylvania and Countrie of Newcastle, &c.

The Remonstrance of the freemen of the said province and Countrey, in Assembly mett, Humbly Sheweth :

That having with all dutieful respect read and Considered the Governor's answer to our address this morning, Wee in ansr. thereunto, with submission say: Wee conceive that our desires wer not grounded on mistakes in relation to the proprietor's absence; But as to the other clause mentioned by the Governor of their maties asserting their Undoubted right of Governing their subjects in this province, &c., Wee with all readines and Cheerfullnes own accordinglie to be the right of the king & Queen, whois prosperitie and happie reign we heartilie desire.

And as to other reasons rendred for the superseding our proprie tor's governancie; Wee apprehend they are founded upon Misinformations; for the Courts of Justice wer open in all the Counties of this governmt and Justice duely executed, from the highest crimes of Treason & murder to the determining the Lowest difference about propertie, befor the date or arrivall of the Gors Comission. Neither doe wee apprehend that the province was in danger of being lost

from the crown, although the government was in the hands of some whois principles are not for warrs. And wee Conceive that the present governancie hath no opposition, (with respect to the king's government here in generall,) to our proprietarie Wm. penn's, tho' the exercise of thy authoritie att present supersedes that of our said proprietaries. Nevertheless, wee readily own thee for our Lawfull Governor, saving to our selves and those whom wee represent, our and their just rights & priviledges. Signed on behalf of the house. JOS. GROWDON, Speaker.

17th of 3d Mo. 1693.

His Excell. Gentl., The word (misinformation) is verie Unmannerly their Maties are not misinformed. I could now wish you had offered no such thing: notwithstanding your possitive assertion of misinformation in relaon to the govenmt of this place, I doe affirm that many and most of yor Laws are not consonant to the Laws of England, nor have they been dulie executed: some Criminalls have Lain years in prison for want of execution, & manie Instances can be given. I find the province in no Securitie. It is obvious to anie discerning man, that Less than 500 Souldiers may reduce it in as Little time as they can march through it. If it should please God that their Maties' forces (as I hope) have taken Martinicoe, Wee must expect that such a great prince as the king of France will endeavour a Reprisall, unless wee can beat him outt of paris. It will goe hard with him before he putt up such an affront, and he will allways make his first impression where there is Least defence. Nevertheless I will doe anie thing in my power for the renovation or Confirmaon of anie Laws that are consonant to the Laws of England. I will consider and advise with the Councill concerning this paper of titles. In the meantime, I will desire you to go on with the other affairs: I would have you to dispatch the setling the post office; It is a Comon good to everie one, and will save us the charges of sending expresses to our neighbouring provinces: also, the act agt privateers which none can object against.

Mr. Speaker and the Representatives did withdraw.

His Excell. with the advice and consent of the Councill, ordered Mr. Jamison to tell the Speaker in the House of representatives, that they have considered what they did offerr this day in Councill Concerning Laws. That his Excell. was readie to pass anie Laws not repugnant to the Laws of England; That this is the tenth day of their sessions, and what is offered is onlie a list of titles. It cannot be expected that his Excell. can goe blindfold to order the exucon of Laws that doe not appear to him; Therefore, desires they will send him the rolls of these Laws they have mentioned, and whether they doe proceed upon the post-office and bill agt privateers, or when they doe intend to proceed.

Mr. Jamison returned in ansr.: That the house was adjourned for an houre, and were gone to inquire of the Mr of the rolls for the Laws.

Adjourned till 3 a Clock afternoon.

Ordered, that Mr. Jamison doe deliver his former Last message, and doe ask Mr. Speaker to return his Excell. Copie of his Comission and bring it with him.

Mr. Speaker made ansr, That they have examined and find but some rolls, That Livet. Governor Markham was Secretarie, and he hath a book of Laws which they have much regard to, and also, that they did believe they might find with him the original bills; they have now sent some of their House to Inquire for ym, whom they expect. It were hard to suppose that these Laws they have acted by should be void, for the officers neglect in not enrolling them.

Mr. Jamison replied: That his Excell. did not blame this House for the want of them rolls, nor mean to charge any person with the neglect att present; but that his Excell. conceives that these Laws might have by this time been got readie in new bills, to be offered for his sanction, that they may be enrolled for their use.

Mr. Speaker said: He believed their Laws wer good, notwithstanding the officers neglect.

Mr. Jamison said: His Excell. did order him to enquire if they did proceed upon the post office and Bill agt privateers, or when they intended to proceed.

Mr. Speaker ansred: That the Bill for the post office was once read in their house, and hee found no objection agt it amongst the members.

Mr. Jamison said: His Excell. does expect that Mr. Speaker will send back the Copie of his Commission.

Mr. Speaker answered, that the Govr had asked one of the members of the house for it formerlie, but that att the time hee had forgot to mention it in the house: it should be returned.

Mr. Jamison said: His Excell. doth expect that I bring it along with mee.

Mr. Speaker: it shall be returned by those who shall bring up the Laws.

Edward Bleake, Samll. Carpenter, david LLoyd and John White, om the house of representatives, came with a book of Laws to his Exce and Councill, and did offer it as a true Copie; That they did believe Livet. Governor Markham and some others of the Councill could inform the Governor that of their certain knowledge these wer the Laws they hid proceeded by in the governmt, and desired that a Comittee may be appointed to Conferr with a Comittee of the representatives concerting those Laws that wer returned in the List of titles given in this day.

His Excell. told them, Hee could take no notice of that book unless it wer attested for a true Copie by the Gor, secretarie, or Mr of the Rolls: these scripts of paper are handed about from one to another, and everie one may alter them att pleasure.

Mr Lloyd. May it please the Gor, I did see some of those Laws, & doe know that they wer delivered in to the privie Council by Mr penn: & being no wayes disallowed, they must needs be of force.

His Excell. This is the first time I have heard of that, nor doe I conceive it to be true. By the king's Lres pattents, yor Laws are to be made, ordained & published under Mr penn's seal, & these condions are not performed: you cannot produce me one Law soe enacted.

John White. May it please the Governor, wee are but poor men & of inferiour degree, and represent the people, and wee cannot have the boldness to say to the Gor freelie, becaus thou art soe farr above us, & putts an awe upon us. Wee wold willinglie be resolved of this point, that we may be ready to doe the other part which perhapps may be ended in hours & not take up dayes; But it's hard that all our proceedings in Courts of Judicature, &c. are grounded upon no foundation, having no Law, then consequentlie void, & all for want of forme.

His Excell. That may be easilic Salved with two lines of an act, which I will readily pass.

Mr White. May it please the Governor to heare me speak the truth of the matter. This is our difficultie: We durst not begin to pass one bill to be enacted of our former Laws, Least by soe doeing wee declare the rest void, & of no force nor validitie, which will be of dangerous consequence; and therfore, wee desire to be at some Certaintie in this matter: If we can get over it, I hope wee shall quicklie come to a period, and therfore desire a Committee may be appointed to Conferr with us upon our doubts and objections.

Ordered, Wm. Markham, Esqr., Livet. Governor, Andrew Robeson, patrick Robinson, Wm. Salway and Wm. Clark, Esqrs., be, and they are hereby appointed a committee of this board, to join a Comittee of the house of representatives, to Concerte of the paper containing the List of titles of Laws delivered his Excell. by the Speaker this day, and to advise what may be proper to remedie the former neglects & remove the doubts that have arisen amongst the representatives upon his Excell. ansr to sd paper.

Ordered, that George Forman, esqr. doe carrie a Copie of this order to the house of Representatives, and desire that the Speaker will appoint a Comittee of that house to join the Comittee of the Councill att the house of Coll. Markham, at 8 a Clock morrow morning accordinglie.

[25th May, 1693.

Att a Meeting of the Comittee of both houses att the hous of Livet. Governor Markham, on Thursday the 25th of May, 1693. VOL. I.-18.

PRESENT.

WM. MARKHAM, Esqr., Livet. Gor.

OF THE COUNCILL.

William Salway, Esqrs.
I

William Clarke.

REPRESENTATIVES.
David Lloyd,

Samll Carpenter,
Cornelius Empson,

James Fox,

John Brinkloe,
John Swift.

Livet. Governor Markam. Gentl., You have desired a Comittee should be appointed to concerte with you upon some objections and doubts arisen upon the paper Containing the List of titles of Laws, & his Excell. answer therunto, for which reason wee are now mett.

Mr Speaker. Wee have manie reasons to believe that our Laws are of force, but shall only mention this; That these manie years wee have exercised the government by these Laws, & are in the enjoyment of them; Wee know them to be our Laws, and wee know & can prove that Wm. penn caried the greatest bodie of them to England, & conceive they were delivered to the king, and never declared void and as to the rest of our Laws, the time Limited in the Letters patents for transmitting of them is five years, which is not yet expired; and as to yor objection that they are not enrolled and undr the Seal of the proprietarie or his deputie, wee say that is not necessarie to the making of Laws, but they are onlie Ceremonies, and you have been active as well as wee in executing these Laws, tho without the Seal, and therfore, wee pray they may be allowed to be of force as our right.

:

Mr White all the Laws that wee pretend to are 203, wherof 174 were made while the proprietarie, Wm. penn, was here in person. Wm. penn had sufficient power to make these Laws, and Livet. Governor, You wer present att the making of ym, and if any thing wer amiss you are concerned.

Livet. Governor. I was present att the making of them all.
Mr White. All except about twelve or thirteen.

Livet. Governor. I was not secretarie all that time when the Laws wer made, but att the making of a few of them.

Mr White. Those Laws were caried home to England by Wm. penn, and by him presented to the king, or his privie Councill, which wee are readie to prove, and the king did not within six months declare them to be void: Therfore, they are our Laws, and wee have had the peaceable exercise and enjoyment of them; and some of you that are of the Comittee of the Councill have sitt upon the Bench, and given Judgment of death by these Laws; wee are in the posession of ym & say they are good and of force. Wee desire you to prove that they are not good.

Livet. Governor. Wee are not to prove the negative, you are to prove the affirmative, becaus you produce none.

Mr White. Wee have our Laws here; And wee now put it to the Livet. Governor to say whether hee hath not the originall bills