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by deputy, and held by persons of the had adverted, the net receipts of that office highest rank in the country, who, from did not amount to bear so large a sum as their situation, could have no cognizance that which had been stated, and which of the conduct of their deputies, and included, he believed, the salary of the troubled themselves no more about them depuly, and other expenses of the office. than to receive the immense profits drawn With regard to the office which had be. from the country and the public suitors of come vacant this year, viz. the Clerk of the courts. To give the House some idea the Crown and Hanaper, he might be perof the greatness of those sinecures, he mitted to observe, that, with every respect would mention the emoluments attending for the Bill which passed that House, it some of them. The Clerk of the Crown was rather too much to assume that the had from 8,000l, to 10,0001. per annum; Crown ought to be deprived of the power, the Protbonotary of the Common Pleas of granting that office, because one branch had 10,0001.; the Clerk of the Pleas, in of the Legislature had disapproved of its the Court of Exchequer, 11,0001. This continuance. The right hon. baronet, last office was held by one of his Majesty's however, he was sure, would be glad to ministers (the earl of Buckinghamshire), hear, that as the event which would augwho, although possessed likewise of a va. ment the fees of that office to a very large luable place at ibe East India Board, made amount, was one which every one must a demand for a very considerable sum deprecate, namely, a demise of the Crown, from the consolidated fund. But however Government had made a stipulation with great those sinecures, and however de. the noble lord to whom it was now grantsirable it would be that they were imme- ed, by which either Parliament or the diately abolished, he was not willing to Crown would have a right to regulate the affect them in any other degree than to amount of the fees on the occasion prevent a renewal of them after the ex. alluded 10 (which, from the number of piration of the present grants. Besides commissions which must in that case be Those already mentioned, his Bill would renewed, would be very large), allowing include the office of Chief Remembrancer the noble lord a certain portion of them, of the Court of Exchequer, the Second and providing that the remainder should Remembrancer of the same, and also the be paid into the Exchequer. Clerk of the Crown and Hanaper; and in Mr. Bankes approved of such a bargain, speaking of this last-mentioned office, he and hoped that, while it was fresh in their could not forbear lamenting that, notwith- memories, some plan would be carried standing some rotes of inai House recom- into execution for betler regulating the mending its abolition, it had been revived emoluments of other great offices. this year, on the death of the noble earl Sir J. Newport said, that he had col., who lately held it, so that another life lected his information as to the amounts was interposed to retard ils dissolution of those sinecures from the staiements of The right hon. baronet concluded by the officers themselves. moving, “ That leave be given to bring Leave was given to bring in the Bill. in a Bill to regulate the fees and emoluments of certain offices of the courts of PROPERTY Tax.] The Chancellor of law in Ireiand after the deterniination of the Exchequer having moved the order of the now existing grants thereof respec- the day, Mr. Brogden reported from the lively."
committee of ways and means, the follow. Mr. Vesey Fitzgerald said, that he had ing resolution ; viz. “ That it is the opia, the less regrel at not being present when nion of this committee, that towards raising the right hon, baronet commenced his the supply granted to bis Majesty, the address to the House, as it was not his in- respective duties on the profits of all prò. tention to oppose his proposition. He did perty, professions, trades and offices, not now mean to offer any opinion upon granted by certain acts made in the 13d, the various points alluded to by the right 45th, and 46th of bis Majesty, and consohon, baronel ; but upon the principle which lidated by the last-mentioned act, and had formerly been adopted by the House, which ceased after the 5th of April 1815, he should not oppose the motion for leave be revived, and granted to his Majesty for to bring ju the Bill. He begged, however, the term of one year, from the said 5th of to observe, that with regard to the office April 1815.” On the motion that the held by a noble lord (the earl of Bucking. resolution be read a second time, hamshire) to which the right hon. baronet General Gascoyne said, that having pre.' sented a petition from his constituents / ing the extension of the tax to Ireland, to against the renewal of the Property-lax, pause, to examine, and to reflect, before he thought it incumbent on him shortly to they acceded to a proposition, the conseexplain why he should not oppose the quences of which might be most fatal. He present resolution. The petition was pre-would now move as an amendment, that sented when we were at peace, and when the Resolution be read a second time that there was no prospect that that peace | day fortnight. would be endangered. It now appeared Mr. Bankes said, that what he had stated obviously necessary, whether we remained yesterday of the expediency of extending at peace, or the war was renewed, that a the principle of the Property tax to considerable expense must be incurred. Ireland was advanced advisedly, and that It was on that account that he concurred he would persevere in recommending to in the Resolution. Nevertheless, it was | Parliament the adoption of such a measure. with great regret that he heard the It was his intention to move, that in the right bon. the Chancellor of the Ex. first clause of the Bill the word • Ireland' chequer say, that it was not his inten should be introduced. But perhaps it tion to propose any modification of the would be necessary, in the first place, to measure. It would still be, as it had been, refer the subject to the consideration of a most obnoxious, unless the principle were committee. If so, he would name a day altered of laying an equal burihen on for that purpose. To no place would the income arising from permanent property, Property-tax, to a certain degree, be more and on income in which the possessor had applicable than to Ireland. Articles of cononly a life interest. He called the earliest sumption in that country were already too attention of Government to the necessity much the subject of taxation; and resort of some modification of the measure in this could not be had to a better tax, ihan to one respect, and gave notice that unless they which was not easily evaded, which was col. evinced a disposition to do so, he would lected at a moderate expense, and from himself propose some relief to the parties, which the lower classes werewhollyexempt. aggrieved, which would not be essentially | He hoped the right hon, baronet would injurious to the measure itself.
not maintain, that the gentry of Ireland Sir J. Newport declared, that feeling as ought not to bear any of the burthens which he did that ihe proposed tax was inquisi. | the necessities of the state might render it torial in its nature, subversive of the best advisable to impose. Did the right hon. principles of our free constitution, unequal baronet think, that the gentry of Ireland in its operation, affecting alike permanent were the only persons that did not like to and uncertain property, and arming Go. pay taxes? The English gentry did not vernment with a power which it never pay them from any feeling of pleasure in ought to have, of making income and not the act ; but they nevertheless paid them expenditure the criterion of taxation, be with cheerfulness when the honour and would in every stage, and under every interests of the country required that they circumstance, and to the last moment of should do so. And so, he would answer its being before them, take the sense of for them, would the gentry of Ireland, the House upon it. He could hardly con- | under similar circumstances. ceive any emergency so great as to war- | Mr. Grattan observed, that the bon. ran: the re-introduction of this measure. gentleman's speech bad consisted of a Had he wanted any additional inducement succession of assertions, from all of which to oppose the proposition in limine, he he dissenled, except the last, namely, that should have found it in the recommenda. the gentry of Ireland were ready to subtion of an hon. gentleman (Mr. Bankes), mit to whatever taxes might be considered who knew so little of Ireland as not to be consistent with the good of the country aware, that were his proposition adopted, and the advantage of the state. They it might endanger the connexion between would be ready to maintain the British the two countries. If the inquisitorial empire with their property and their quality of the Bill had been found so ob blood; but the Property-tax would be noxious in England, what would it be in infinitely more injurious to the sensations Ireland, where the control, which public of Irishmen, than taxes much more pro. observation and opinion had over public doctive to the state. But this was not the men, was so much weaker than in this time to enter into particulars. He thought country? He beseeched the House, there. | the hon. gentleman had done well to give fore, if there was any intention of propos. | notice of his intentions; and whenever be should bring forward his motion, he last, they would cheerfully make in the pledged himself to oppose it, and to common cause. But it was a great misdebate the question fully and candidly. take to suppose that great sacrifices had He should then endeavour to prove that not been already made. Let any mar the tax was altogether foreign to the look at the amount of the revenue of Irehabits, condition, and financial situation of land before the Union, and at the calcu. that country, which would prefer more lations upon which her share of the joint productive taxes to the particular tax in contributions was founded ; let him at the question. At present he should say no same time look at the narrow means she more upon the subject, but merely add, poesessed, and then consider the amount that the measure now before the House to which her revenue had been since had bis most cordial disapprobation. raised, and he would admit, that whatever
Mr. Vesey Fitzgerald said, he should | disinclination Ireland might have to this defer the general observations which he tax, she had borne her full share of the sbould have to make upon this subject, weight of the general pressure ; and she until the hon. gentleman's motion came would, he had no doubt, always cheerfully regularly before the House. But that his contribute, to the extent of her power, lo opinion might not be mistaken, and to the public burthens. He would not antici. allay the anxiety which such a proposition pate the debate, but would cheerfully meet was calculated to excite in Ireland, he the hon. gentleman when the day of disthought it right to state, that however cussion should arrive. respectable the quarter might be from Mr. W. Elliot said, he conceived a meawhich that proposition came, he had at sure of the nature of that now proposed, a present no intention of recommending the necessary consequence of the late Ad. adoption of the Property-tax in Ireland.dress of ihe House; and he should there. He wished, however, to remind the House, fore give his vote in favour of the motion. that the application of that tax 10 Great He should reserve to himself the power of Britain was only proposed for one year, exercising his discretion with regard to and under circumstances which would not the details of the measure in a subsequent justify him in now proposing it for ihe stage; but with respect to the measure sister country, even if he were prepared itself, he considered it as only providing to go the full length of the hon. gentle. the Government with the necessary means man's opinion. The hon. gentleman would for the security of the country, whatever recollect that even in this country, where mighibetbe tenour of their future conduct. the habits of society were so different! The House then divided on sir John from those of Ireland, and where the Newport's Amendment: wealth was so much greater, it was a long
For the Amendment................ 30 time before that tax was made fully pro
Against it ............................ 99 ductive, and before the machinery which
Majority ...................... -69 was to enforce its collection could be per. fected. If great difficulties had been
List of the Minority. found in England, much greater would undoubtedly be found in Ireland. He Abercrombie, hon. J. Martin, J. declined, however, entering into the argu. Althorpe, lord
Neville, hon. R. ment at present, and should content him. Be
Newport, sir J.
Foley, T. self with stating, that under the present
Fitzroy, lord J. Poulett, hon. W. V. circumstances, he did not think himself
Grant, J. P.
Philips, Geo. justified in proposing to extend it to that Guise, sir Wm. Ponsonby, right hon. country. With regard to the financial | Grattan, right hon. H. Jifficulties of Ireland, however he might Hamilton, Iord A. Ridley, sir M. W. Jament them, the House and the bun, Horner, F.
Ramsden, J. gentleman must do him the justice to
Hammersley, H. Richardson, w. acknowledge, that he had never endea.
Tierney,right hon. G. voured to skreen them from investigation.
Whitbread, s. In moving for a committee some days ago, Lambton. J. G.
TELLERS. to inquire into the state of the Irish | Milton, lord
Bennet, hon. H. G. finances, he had not concealed that the Mackintosh, sir J. Gordon, R. people of Ireland would be called upon to make great exertions-exertions which he | The Resolution was read a second time agreed with the hon. gentleman who spoke and agreed to. On the motion, that leave
be given to bring in a Bill, pursuant tol Mr. Baring, thought this tax came with the said Resolution,
a very bad grace after the vole declining Mr. Alderman Atkins said, that the to make any inquiry into the lavish exProperty-tax was a tax on industry, and penditure of the Civil List. He thought was highly unequal, as being as great on so more especially when he considered the profits of one year as on property for how small the majority was, and how that ever. He was sure the tax, without any majority was composed. The House was modification, was very uncomfortable to now called on to vote this tax without the country-[a laugh]--but if his right any information as to the extent of the bon. friend, the Chancellor of the Ex. sum necessary, or with respect to the chequer, would agree to a committee to situation of our external policy; for the adopt modifications, then it might be made Message of the Prince Regent calling on something more comfortable, and the the House to enable preparations to be country might be brought not to object to made, was not enough to induce them, the measure.
| without further information, to vote a tax Mr. W. Smith was much of the same of 14 millions. But still he should not opinion with the hon. alderman, and be disposed to go into a commitee, be, thought that though the tax could not be cause he rather preferred learing the tax made agreeable, it might be made to go on the footing proposed by the Chancellos down. It was not the amount of the tax of the Exchequer, namely, the extension 80 much as the inequality of its operation, of it for one year only. It was more likely to which he objected; upon the same to be a temporary measure, when taken principle he should have objected to 51. in that manner, than if it were made what per cent. equally as much as io 101. The the hon. alderman called a comfortable lax possessed this advantage, that a great thing, and which would be likely to stick proportion came into the Exchequer at by them for the remainder of their lives. ebe smallest possible expense. Of the He for one should for ever oppose ibe tax commissioners of the Property tax with as a permanent source of revenue in time whom he had been acquainted, and he of peace. He thought, however, on the had been acquainted with many, there occasion of the late repeal, that had it never was one who did not declare that heen continued for one year longer, till his office was the most disagreeable one the affairs of the last war were wound up, in which he was ever employed, from the it would have been attended with great inquisitorial powers of the tax; and there benefit to the finances of the country. were many instances in which the com- l Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. missioners and the officers of Government were at variance respecting the severe MOTION RESPECTING BUONAPARTE'S ES. manner in which those officers exercised CAPE FROM ELBA. Mr. Abercrombie said, the powers entrusted to them.
he rose in pursuance of the notice he had General Gascoyne explained, and said, given, to move for such ioformation as that he wished the subject to be taken up could be furnished, with reference lo any as he proposed, by any other member. instructions that his Majesty's ministers
The Chancellor of the Exchequer opposed might have given to our naval com. the appointment of a select committee, | manders in the Mediterranean, on the as it would lead to delay and inconve- subject of the Island of Elba, and for innience, and would derange the whole ma- formation as to any disclosure which chinery of the tax, so as to prevent its might have been made to them witbre. being collected in due time. Had the spect to the projects of Buonaparte, tax been proposed for a longer term than while on that island, together with the one year, he should have thought an in. means which bad, in consequence, been quiry advisable. The ascertaining the pro- taken, to counteract those projects, simply portions of the tax to be paid by fixed on these grounds because the return of capital and industry would necessarily that individual to the throne of France occasion much discussion, and protract was an event of such awful importance, the passing of the Bill to a late period of and so deeply affected the interests of the session.
Europe, that the House would desert the Mr. Alderman Atkins thought it pos. duty they owed to their constituents, to sible to ameliorate the severities of the themselves, and to Europe in general, if Act, without rendering it inetficient, or they did not attempt to ascertain, whether, taking up much time.
| by greater prudence and greater foresight
on the part of his majesty's ministers, that properly in time. What he proposed was, occurrence might not have been pre to call on his Majesty's Government to vented. The Message from the Throne produce such information as would enable informed the House, that in consequence the House and the country to decide, of the events which bad recently occurred whether, in point of fact, they had exerin France, it was necessary that a great cised a sound discretion, and made use of disposable force should be placed in the all those precautionary measures which hands of the executive Government, and prudence and reason directed. that a closer concert should be entered It was impossible to discuss these subinto with his Majesty's Allies. Not one jects with advantage, without adverting dissenting voice was raised against the to the circumstances under which the Address; and, under these circumstances, Treaty of Fontainbleau was concluded ; he conceived he was entitled to call on without, however, entering into the pro. the House to determine, whether his Ma- priety of the terms or conditions of that jesty's Government should not be put on Treaty. On the subject of the terms, their defence, and compelled to show, they had heard two statements, directly whether they had not received joforma-contradictory of each other. By some tion as to the intended departure of Buo- persons it was contended, that they pronaparté, and whether they had or had not ceeded from a mistaken magnanimity on taken steps to counteract the projects of the part of the Allies; while others, and which they had been apprised. If he amongst them the noble lord (Castlereagh) asked the House to enter into the consi- asserted, that the Treaty was dictated by deration of the terms of the Treaty of hard necessity. He was not inclined to Fontainbleau-looking to the change of accede to either of these propositions. circumstances which had taken place since He thought it was a nearer approximation it was entered into-looking to the alte. to truth to suppose that, when the Treaty ration of the brilliant prospects which last of Fontainbleau was agreed to, though year opened to the country-he did not | Buonaparté was not in such a situation as think he should be too late even for that to be immediately compelled to accept discussion. Because, by so doing, be any terms that might be offered to him, should be calling on those who had yet the Allies possessed such superior claimed the applause and gratitude of the strength, that, if he had refused those country, as having assisted in the determs which appeared to them calculated liverance of Europe, to state why they to insure the security of Europe, they had placed their fame and the repose of would have been very speedily enabled to the world on so insecure a foundation. enforce their demand. They, in this situaBut, as it might be alleged, that he had tion of affairs, deemed it more wise to passed by the proper period for such a accede to the terms which he was willing discussion, he would not introduce it now. to take, than to expose Europe to the He should, therefore, merely look to the evils of a protracted contest. At this rights which the different parties to the time, however, Buonaparté had lost his Treaty of Fontainbleau derived under capital, and they were told that he had that Treaty, and, in particular, what rights lost the confidence of his troops, and, accrued to us, under its provisions. Have above all, that the authority of opinion ing ascertained the latter point, it would was no longer in his favour. Disaffecbe for the House to consider whether tion, it appeared, had spread amongst his his Majesty's ministers had exercised due officers; and his army at Fontainbleau, and proper vigilance, in conformity with even if it were joined by the remnant of the rights given to this country by the the force under Mortier and Marmont, Treaty. This being his object, it could did not exceed 50,000 men, to oppose not be said, that he came forward too late ; which the Allies had an army of 140,000. because, if he had asked for the informa- Soult was driven from the south of France tion he now sought for, at an earlier pe by the duke of Wellington, and the army riod, he would then have been told on of. of Augereau was opposed by superior numficial authority, that to answer such ques. | bers. This was the picture drawn at the tions would be a direct breach of public time by the accredited ministers of this duty, and would tend to defeat the very country. They exultingly declared, that 'object which it was proposed to attain. Buonaparté, wlio so recently commanded He, therefore, came to the House, with a mighty empire, then stood alone, and the present motion, most strictly and that the Alied Sovereigns were received