LORD A. COMPTON-We are quite out of order in discussing the petition. The only proper course to be taken with reference to a petition about which we have any doubt is to refer it to the Committee of Privileges.

CANON SEYMOUR-There are two reasons why I hope the House will not reject the petition. I do not think that the objections of Canon Selwyn and the Archdeacon of St. Alban's are fairly borne out by the words of the petition. It does not in any way impugn the action of the Courts, but merely charges certain persons with using them for certain purposes. The other ground of objection is, that I think it would be a most dangerous course to assume that we are bound by the prayer of every petition presented to us. The passages quoted come from a man of the very highest position in the Church, and I think, therefore, it is especially necessary in this instance that we should not express an opinion upon the document. I hope the petition will be referred to the Committee of Gravamina or Privileges.

CANON SELWYN-Whose petition is this now?

ARCHDEACON DENISON-Mine.

CANON SELWYN-Then I would ask the Prolocutor if a member of this House can present a petition to it; he may present a schedule of gravamina, but not a petition from himself.

The PROLOCUTOR-A petition to this House from a member of this House is an unusual course; he should proceed by way of gravamen. The petition should, I think, be referred to the Committee of Privileges.

The DEAN OF ELY-If so, what is the point to be referred? Is it simply whether the petition is in order, or will any other point have to be reported upon by the Committee of Privileges? The question is important, because in the latter case upon the presentation of the report of the Committee we may find ourselves involved in a long and difficult doctrinal discussion.

ARCHDEACON DENISON-The House is not committed to one word in this petition. Ninety-nine Priests, including myself, have chosen to express our belief in the words of Thorndike, and we ask to be protected in our belief by this House saying that the doctrine hald by Thorndike is not outside the pale of the Church of England. I do really say this in the humblest way possible. I feel that I have arrived at the greatest crisis which has occurred in my lifetime; and if the House rejects this petition, I will walk out of this House.

CANON HOPKINS-The Prolocutor has ruled that it is not competent to a member to petition this House.

ARCHDEACON DENISON-But there are ninety-nine signatures besides mine.

ARCHDEACON MACKENZIE-And that raises the question whether only verified signatures to a petition can be admitted.

ARCHDEACON KAYE-Looking to the maintenance of the rights and privileges of the Clergy of the Church of England, I should not

Motion.

like to see the House refuse to receive a petition from so many Clergymen.

ARCHDEACON SIR G. PREVOST-The section of Clergy represented by these petitioners has already been much grieved; and are we to be the persons to take steps which would drive them out of our communion? God forbid! Nothing is so likely to drive them to despair as the contumelious treatment of their memorial by this House.

The DEAN OF WESTMINSTER-If I recollect aright, the petition I just now spoke of, which I presented, was not rejected, but referred to the Committee of Privileges. Of course that was a gulf from which it never came back, and that was the end of it. I think that in these matters there should be equal dealing to all parties, and what happened to my petition might well happen to this.

DR. FRASER-The petition of the Dean of Westminster was informal, because it was addressed to the whole of Convocation and not to the Lower House. That was the point upon which it was referred.

CANON SEYMOUR-I beg to move that the petition be referred to the Committee of Privileges.

The REV. PREBENDARY JOYCE-I will second that. Nothing could have induced me to sign the petition; but when ninety-nine Priests of the Church of England make a representation to this House in this way, to shelve their petition at once and take no notice of it would, in my opinion, be a course exceedingly injudicious.

ARCHDEACON MACKENZIE-I would respectfully request that the three following points of order may be referred to the Committee of Privileges, viz.

1. Whether verified signatures to any petition can be received in lieu of the writing of the signataries?

2. Whether a member of this House be competent to petition this House? 3. Whether the matter of any petition be a proper ground of rejecting such petition?

CANON LLOYD-Surely that is a matter that should be left to the Committee.

Motion put and carried.

NOTICES OF MOTION.

CANON WOODGATE-When the question of the reform of Convocation comes before the House, to supply an omission in the proposed measure of reform submitted to and approved by the Lower House of the late Convocation, whereby no provision was made for the representation of Minor Canons.

The REV. H. HOWELL-That his Grace the President be requested to direct a Committee to be appointed for the purpose of considering the general question of rating the property of the Clergy, and of reporting at some early session the best means of obtaining a more just assessment, especially in cases where, from the increase of population or the services, assistant-curates have become absolutely necessary.

CANON SELWYN-This House desires respectfully to draw the attention of his Grace the President of the Upper House to the articulus cleri on the Marriage and Divorce Act of 1857 which was presented during the last Convocation, May 2nd, 1866—especially with reference to the re-marriage of a divorced

Sermon.

person where the divorce has been the consequence of such person's own guilt. To be added to the report upon this subject presented by Mr. Gibbs.

MARRIAGE OF DIVORCED PERSONS.

The REV. M. GIBBS-I have to present a report from the Committee appointed and re-appointed by direction of the President to consider in what way action can be taken with reference to the granting of marriage licences to divorced persons. At the proper time I shall be prepared, with the permission of the House, to move the resolution which the Committee have prepared and added to their report in accordance with the Standing Orders. I have now simply to move, "That the report be printed and circulated amongst the members of Convocation.' (For report see Appendix.) DR. FRASER-I second the motion.

Carried.

LIBRARY.

The PROLOCUTOR-I have been requested by Prebendary Joyce to present to the Library of the Lower House of Convocation his volume recently published, entitled The Civil Power in its Relation to the Church; and I beg leave, on behalf of the House, to tender our thanks to him.

THE PROLOCUTOR'S SERMON.

ARCHDEACON DENISON-I have permission to state to the House, which I do with great pleasure, that his Grace the Archbishop has requested our Prolocutor to publish the sermon which we heard yesterday in Westminster Abbey at the consecration of the Bishop of Lincoln and the other Bishops. The House, I am sure, will hear of his Grace's command with the utmost satisfaction, for the sermon was an admirable one in every respect both as to its matter and its manner. It was a fearless statement of the truth with regard to the present position of the Church of England, and it referred, in extremely felicitous and appropriate terms, to one whose name is associated with all the best recollections of the House.

LORD A. HERVEY-I think every member of this House will feel glad that the sermon is to be printed; and as an old friend of the present Bishop of Lincoln, I thank the Prolocutor for the eloquent and glowing, but not in the least too strong, terms in which he has spoken of the new Prelate.

The REV. PREBENDARY JOYCE-I should not be doing justice to my own feelings if I did not also express my admiration of the sermon; and the members of this House being the representatives of the Clergy, it will go forth with the earnest, if indirect, approval of this Provincial Synod.

CHANCELLOR MASSINGBERD-As a Clergyman of the diocese of Lincoln, I wish to express my intense gratification at the way in which the Prolocutor has spoken of my dear friend who now, in the good province of God, is called to preside over that diocese in which I have

Incumbents.

spent my life, and from whose rule I cannot but feel great anticipations that both Clergy and Laity will be greatly benefited.

The PROLOCUTOR-I thank the House for its kind expressions with regard to the sermon preached by me yesterday. It is a great encouragement to me, in obeying his Grace's command, to find that it has in so high a degree the approval of the Lower House of Convocation.

MESSAGES TO THE UPPER HOUSE.

The PROLOCUTOR, accompanied by his Assessors, proceeded to the Upper House and presented to their lordships the several clauses proposed by this House to be added to the address to her Majesty, the resolutions of this House upon the subject of Clergy Discipline, and the gravamen of Dr. Jebb and Mr. Gregory. On his return,

THE PROCTOR FOR LEWES.

ARCHDEACON OTTER-I have a petition to present from the Rev. Robert Shuttleworth Sutton, who was elected Proctor for the archdeaconry of Lewes, alleging that it had been understood that the Rev. W. A. Fitzhugh would be elected without opposition, but that in consequence of his opinions on the Irish Church the petitioner was requested to allow himself to be put in nomination, which he did, and he was elected by show of hands, but there were very few Clergymen present, and that as the general feeling is that his election had been a surprise, he prays that he may be permitted to resign. The PROLOCUTOR-That is a matter entirely for his Grace the President.

DISABLED INCUMBENTS.

ARCHDEACON MACKENZIE In addressing the House on the subject of a reply to their lordships' message, I wish to call attention to a report already adopted in the last Convocation on the subject of Pensions for Disabled Incumbents. This question is intimately and necessarily connected with the law of resignation of livings; and I beg to lay upon the table copies of the report I refer to. The message from the Upper House is divided into three different questions, the question of simple resignation, the question of resigning under certain conditions, and the question of resigning in order to effect an exchange. These three things are mixed up to a certain extent with previous legislation. I presume that so far as simple resignation is concerned there is no difficulty at all; that it is competent for any person desirous of resigning to state the fact to the Bishop, and that the Bishop can accept his resignation. But the other questions are involved in considerable difficulty. Before the Reformation it was the custom to grant pensions out of livings for the benefit of those who resigned. Those pensions grew gradually into an abuse, and the consequence was that an Act of Parliament was passed; the 31st Elizabeth, cap. 6, sec. 8, which enacts that if any incumbent, with cure of souls, shall corruptly take for or in respect of the resigning or exchanging a benefice, directly or indirectly, any pension, sum of money, or benefit

Incumbents.

whatsoever, both the parties shall be liable to certain penalties. In consequence of that statute the system of pensions has been discontinued in the Church. The Church goes through three different stages before it comes to its position as a legal or established Church. The first is naturally when it is in a collegiate condition, when the ministry forms a college and sends out missionaries; the second is the congregational state, when the congregations form ecclesiæ; and the third is when the Church, having done its work through its apostles or missionaries and congregations, assumes its complete form and occupies the country territorially. That is the position of the Church of which we are members. It has been long a national Church, the Church of Christ in England, and the nation and the Church have been interlaced and united, so that there is not throughout the length and breadth of this country any part or district in which there is not a priest whose duty it is to teach the people. And in every parish there is a certain place to which every man has a right to resort to worship God. But though this territorial and parochial system is the best to which the Church can come, it is not without certain evils. Under it certain vested rights are acquired, and there may be an aged or infirm Clergyman who is unable to perform his duties towards the people. And I suppose there is none of us here who could not put his finger on a certain spot and say the pastor is incapacitated from fulfilling his duty. Now, the great object of the Committee was to find some means whereby the system of pensions might be reverted to and yet its evils prevented. There is no difficulty as to simple resignation, and therefore so far legislation is not necessary. But as resignation on pension is not now legal, legislation is needed, and the course of legislation suggested is laid down in the report. The Committee recommend "that under an amended form of the Act 31 Elizabeth, or such statute as may hereafter be passed on its repeal, in conformity with a recommendation of a Committee of the Upper House for improving the law of simony, presented by the Lord Bishop of Lincoln on the 17th of February, 1860, Bishops, acting with the concurrence of patrons, be empowered to grant pensions on their benefices to disabled incumbents; such pension in no case to exceed one-third part of the gross annual value of the benefices resigned." It is obvious that whenever there is a wrong it is the Church's business to find a remedy; and I believe that this wrong being clear, and admitted by many aged incumbents themselves, you would have their concurrence in finding the remedy. I could mention many instances within my own knowledge where men disabled by age or infirmity are most desirous of resigning their living, but they say, "We cannot resign to starve; our means are limited, we need them to be supplemented." In some cases it may be they have no means at all, and therefore the Committee thought that one-third of the gross revenue should be devoted during life to the incumbent resigning, reverting on his death to the new incumbent. We believe that this would be to the advantage of the Church. I am aware that there are many men who have gone through much labour in the Church, whose holy