held out to the pensioners, though partially | vernment to carry out those conditions? had not been entirely fulfilled; for instance, or, if the Government found those condiat Toronto. In sending the pensioners to tions to be impracticable, or in case some Toronto, the conditions entered into with unexpected difficulty had arisen, whether them were exactly the same as in the other they were prepared to offer any compensaplaces, namely, that they should receive tion, so as to remunerate those pensioners a certain portion of those lands which for the failure of the conditions entered they were to cultivate, and to hold upon into with the former Government? certain terms. Now he understood that these pensioners had been there for many months-there were 220 of them settled at Toronto-and no steps had been as yet taken to fulfil the conditions upon which they were sent there. He did not wish to throw any blame upon the Government in this matter-all he wished was, to draw their attention to the fact. He was sure that the noble Earl must be aware that no body of men were so jealous of any infringement of any conditions made with them as old soldiers and sailors, who had served their country for many years, and had retired upon pensions. Their Lordships might recollect the unfortunate step taken in 1831, in sending out old soldiers to Canada, and inducing them to commute their pensions to four years' purchase. They might remember the sad fate of many of the men who were led to enter into that melancholy bargain. It happened to him when Secretary at War to have had occasion to call upon the public to reimburse those men for the losses they had sustained, and a more grateful task he had never had to perform. That, however, should be a caution to us as to how we sent pensioners abroad in the present day, upon conditions which were not only written, but which were printed and put into each man's hand on the authority and honour of the Secretary of State and the Secretary at War for the time being. He wished to impress upon the Government that they should lose no time in settling with these old soldiers upon terms that would prove satisfactory to them. They might rely on it, according as they increased that force, that they would have the best system of military colonisation that could be possibly adopted, and they would be increasing in the Colonies the number of loyal subjects, who would be ever loyal to the Queen, and bound by other obligations to the service of this country. Having said so much by way of explanation, he would now ask the noble Earl whether it was true that these conditions had not as yet been fulfilled, so far as regarded the pensioners who were settled at Toronto? Whether it was the intention of the Go

The EARL of DERBY said, that though he agreed with the noble Lord in many parts of his speech, there was one part of it in which he entirely and most especially agreed-namely, that a succeeding Government, whatever opinion it might entertain of the policy which dictated them, was bound to carry out fully the engagements into which its predecessors had entered with any class of persons. He further agreed with the noble Lord in his observation that there was no class of men with whom it was more incumbent that good faith should be strictly observed than that class of men to whom he had more particularly referred-namely, the discharged pensioners of the Army and Navy. At the same time, he must remark that he entertained strong doubts whether the system to which the noble Lord had adverted, and which had been in partial operation for the last three or four years, was likely to be productive of so much unmixed benefit as the noble Lord expected; and he could not but fear that some inconvenience would result, as had resulted on a former occasion, from sending out old pensioners to engage in a mode of life for which their previous habits had unfitted them; and, moreover, that you would not gain from them in another country that military protection for which the noble Lord was such an advocate. That had, however, nothing to do with the question of good faith. He doubted the policy of the original scheme; and he doubted it the more, because there was no provision made, as their Lordships were well aware, for the removal of these old soldiers from the little plots on which they were located when they were incapable of military service, or of working on and cultivating their land. Consequently, at no distant period you would have settled on lands near the town a pauperised and discontented population. The facts, as stated by the noble Lord, were, that up to the present moment the conditions held out to the pensioners sent to Toronto had not been fulfilled. That was not the fault of the present Government, but arose out of the course adopted by their predecessors in sending the men out with a promise

of locating them immediately on land with- | Now, that point ought to have been ascerout having previously ascertained whether tained before the pensioners were sent out. there was any such land at the disposal of A great portion of time had been consumed Government. He held in his hand at that in discussion between the corporation of moment the printed conditions on which Toronto and the Government upon the the pensioners had been sent out. It was powers of this lease; and recently a prothere stated that the pensioners were to position had been made by the corporation receive a free passage and rations for them- of Toronto, that if the Government would selves and families to such countries as the allow them to take 100 acres for the purGovernment might determine upon for their pose of forming it into a park for the town future habitation and service. There were of Toronto, they would pay 1,000l. for the to be certain advances made to them for clearing of the wilderness-for such it was the purpose of building houses, and from-in order that the pensioners might be three to four acres of land were to be al- comfortably and satisfactorily settled in lotted to each man in the immediate neigh- their location, though smaller than at first bourhood of towns, upon which these contemplated. There was also a further houses, or rather cottages, were to be built. deduction to be made from the quantity of He doubted the policy of that arrange- land available to the purposes of the Ordment; for, though it was clear that the nance. By an Act of the Colonial Parliapensioners might eke out an existence in ment passed three or four years ago, to this manner while they were capable of which the Ordnance had paid at the time military service and of working on the little or no attention, power was given to a land; yet, when strength failed them for certain railway to cut right through the one or both, there was no provision made centre of this land. The railway had, for the support either of themselves or of therefore, taken nine acres more. Here, their families. There was also another then, was another element of uncertainty, point in the printed conditions which must which thus rendered it impossible for the not be overlooked. "It must be distinct- Government to settle these pensioners in ly understood that the grant of land de- the immediate neighbourhood of Toronto pends on the quantity available by Govern- in the way originally intended. Such was ment, and that the want of it affords no the condition in which they found this affair claim for compensation. All that will be on their entering upon office; and such he insured is a free passage to Upper Canada, believed it to be at the present moment; where provisions are cheap, and where em- so that, unless some progress had recently ployment can be easily obtained." Now, been made in the negotiation, although in the case of the pensioners at Toronto the pensioners had been enrolled and called these were the facts: 220 of them had out, and served their twelve days, the conbeen sent out. The expectation held out ditions held out to them had not been fulto them was, that from two to three acres filled. While he said that the conditions of land would be granted to them in the had not been fulfilled, he thought it right, neighbourhood of that town. The whole also, to add, that it was the duty of Her of the Ordnance reserve in Toronto, if Majesty's Government, whatever it might every inch were made available for this think of the policy of the original bargain, purpose, amounted to less than 400 acres; to provide either literally for the fulfilment so that it would be insufficient, even at a of the original contract, or for the making minimum allowance, for 220 persons. of such compensation to the pensioners as Whether the late Government was aware justice might require and they were willing of the fact or no he could not say: but the to accept. There was another point which fact was that, supposing all the Ordnance he must notice before he quitted this subreserve had been available, 270 or 280ject, and to which the noble Lord had not acres of it were let under a lease to the corporation of Toronto. Therefore, all the disposable land under the control of the Government was only 120 acres, even supposing you wanted none of it for Ordnance purposes. Now, there had been a dispute for some time between the corporation of Toronto and the Government on this point-namely, how far the Government had power to rescind that lease?

at all adverted-namely, the wisdom of disposing of lands in this way for Ordnance purposes. If this land near Toronto were to continue available for such purposes, it would be necessary to prohibit the construction of any extensive buildings upon it, and to limit the construction to cottages of a single story; but, if the land were not to be kept entirely clear for Ordnance purposes, in that case, from the circumstance

The EARL of DERBY reiterated his former statement, and added, that he had received an account only that morning, stating that the whole of this land ought to be kept clear, to prevent an enemy from approaching in the rear of Toronto, and from taking a position on those points from which the town could be most easily annoyed.

of its close proximity to the city of Toronto, | enemy out; and that, to speak the plain it might become valuable for building pur- truth, it was no more a fortified place than poses; and yet, by the terms of this agree- London was. On the most impoverished ment with the pensioners, it must be let to land in Canada the pensioners were doing them on short and terminable leases, thus well-no settlers better. rendering it less valuable, and, as an arrangement, not the best to be made for the parties themselves. It was clear that, if these parties had a right to claim to be placed on this land, and to have a lease granted to them of the cottage built thereon, and of the two acres to be attached to it, the general value of the land would be sacrificed in a way in which it ought not to be sacrificed. In his opinion it was not advisable to devote, as we were going to do, to permanent garden ground land which might be far more valuable for building purposes. He believed that these questions were under the consideration of Her Majesty's Government. The Colonial Secretary was giving his attention to them, and he hoped that at no very distant period there would be a satisfactory settlement of the whole of this question.

House adjourned till To-morrow.

HOUSE OF COMMONS,
Monday, November 29, 1852.

MINUTES.]

NEW WRIT.-For Lisburne, v. Sir James Emerson Tennant.

PUBLIC BILLS.-2° Courts of Common Law (Ireland) West India Colonies, &c., Loans Act Amendment.

Reported.-Bank Notes.

COMMERCIAL LEGISLATION-THE

DIVISION.

LORD PANMURE would be prepared to discuss the policy of this arrangement with the noble Earl at any future period he liked, but would not enter upon that dis- MR. NEWDEGATE said, he was about cussion at present. His object in rising to solicit the indulgence of the House while now was merely to deny the noble Earl's he alluded, in a few words, to a matter perobservation that the pensioners had been sonal to himself. He had had the honour sent out without its having been previously of being for nearly ten years a Member of ascertained whether the Government had that House; he now found himself in a any land whereon to locate them. The situation which he never before had expenoble Earl laboured upon that point under rienced-that of having twice stated that a grievous mistake. Before the pensioners he would not do what he afterwards had were sent to Toronto, Her Majesty's Go- done. He had declared on two occasions vernment of that day had ascertained that that he would not vote upon the Amendthe Ordnance had both the power and the ment of the noble Lord the Member for will to surrender to them the land in ques- Tiverton, in the division which had taken tion. He could not see any reason why place on last Saturday morning; but his such surrender was not made long ago. name, nevertheless, appeared in the division The whole question turned upon this list as having voted on that occasion. He When we took the land, it was, as the felt, therefore, that he stood in the position noble Earl truly said, part of the wilder- of having broken his word with the House; ness. The corporation of Toronto had and, in justice to himself, he was most leased a portion of it for the express pur- desirous to assure the House that his hav pose of making improvements. It failed ing done this was entirely unintentional. in its engagement to do so; and he be- He fully intended to have left the House, lieved that the Ordnance had in conse- and not to have voted at all on the quence declared their lease to be forfeited. Amendment of the noble Lord the MemAs to the objection taken by the noble ber for Tiverton, and to this intention Earl, that this land was wanted for the he should have faithfully adhered were it military defence of Toronto, he had only not that having been unexpectedly locked to say that he had himself visited Toronto; in, he was obliged to vote. This explanathat it was a perfectly open place; that it tion he felt to be due alike to the House had neither fortification nor battery; that and to himself, for he was jealous of his the barracks which it contained were rather own honour, and he knew that the House erected to keep the inhabitants in, than an paid a just regard to the character and

conduct of its Members. He hoped, there- | Buddhist relic be or be not transferred to fore, that this House would pardon the those who regard it as sacred; whether liberty he had taken in thus trespassing on their attention.

any act of the Queen's Government be or be not required to entitle the priest of a Buddhist temple to exercise any function in respect to the property of such Buddhist temple; and, lastly, whether it be or be not the intention of Her Majesty's Government to transfer to the Buddhist priests all the concerns of their own religion in Ceylon?

SIR JOHN PAKINGTON said, that, in order to answer the series of questions the hon. Baronet (the Member for the Uni

must ask the indulgence of the House for

MR. KEOGH said, he wished to put a question to Mr. Speaker with reference to the order of their proceedings. It would be in the remembrance of the House that, on last Saturday morning, after the Motion of the hon. Gentleman the Member for Wolverhampton (Mr., C. Villiers) had been considered and divided on, another division was taken on the Motion of the noble Lord the Member for Tiverton (Viscount Palmer-versity of Oxford) had addressed to him, he ston). He was informed that, while the division on the latter Motion was being very few moments, although it was quite taken, three Members of the House impossible in giving such an answer to namely, the hon. and learned Gentleman enter then into all the complicated details the Solicitor General (Sir F. Kelly), the with which the subject was necessarily noble Lord the Member for West Surrey surrounded. His hon. Friend was, of (the Earl of March), and the hon. Gentle- course, aware that the matter to which he man the Member for Middlesex (Mr. B. had referred, was one which had occupied Osborne), were concealed in the room at the attention of successive Administrations the back of Mr. Speaker's chair. He did in this country, and excited very considernot pretend to conjecture for what reasonable difficulty and embarrassment in Ceythose three Members were so concealed, lon. The Christian community of Ceylon, but he should like to know whether the and also many parties in the country, had room in question was a place of legitimate retreat to which, whenever a Member of the Government might not like to vote with the Government, he was to be at liberty to retire? He should also like to know whether the division of Saturday morning had been properly taken, or whether the three Gentlemen in question might not have been, and ought not to have been, brought to the table, and compelled to say "aye" or or "no" to the question?

MR. SPEAKER: Any Member who may be in either of the rooms at the back of the Chair, at the time of a division, is clearly entitled not to vote. Ever since the House has assembled in its present chamber, it has been ruled that the two rooms behind the Chair are out of the House; and this being so, the House has clearly no power to compel Members to vote who may choose to retire to those

rooms.

Subject dropped.

BUDDHISM IN CEYLON.

SIR ROBERT H. INGLIS said, he would beg to ask the right hon. Secretary of State for the Colonies, whether the connexion between the Queen's Government in Ceylon, and the idolatry of any part of Her Majesty's subjects therein, be or be not severed; whether the custody of the

taken objection to anything like a connexion between the Government of Great Britain, or the Representative of the Queen's Government in the island of Ceylon, and the system of idolatry which existed there, and was known by the name of Buddhism. But it appeared to him that it was forgotten by those who had taken an interest in this matter, that there were certain treaty obligations in existence which could not be lost sight of. The House was no doubt aware that the territory of the ancient kings of Kandy was acquired by this country in the year 1815. At that time a Convention was entered into between the Representative of the Government of this country and the King of Kandy, and one of the articles of that Convention ran in these terms:-"That the religion of Buddha professed by the chiefs and inhabitants of this province is declared inviolable, and its rites, ministers, and places of worship are to be maintained. and protected." Subsequently a Proclamation was issued by the British Representative in the island, and under that Proclamation he (Sir J. Pakington) was prepared to contend that the obligations which the Government of this country had entered into on the subject of maintaining the Buddhist religion were not in the least altered. True, there were certain words to

some extent qualifying these obligations; | noble Friend sent out instructions to the but essentially the general obligation to Governor of Ceylon, that this portion of our maintain and protect the Buddhists in the connexion with the Buddhist religion should exercise of their religion remained un- be likewise discontinued. The answer to touched. It had been contended, he be- these instructions was not received until lieved by parties in Ceylon, and he had Earl Grey came into office; but it appeared heard it contended elsewhere, that the Con- that that noble Earl sent out instructions vention alluded to was made with infidels to Lord Torrington that the British Goand idolaters, and that, therefore, it was vernment in Ceylon should have no more not binding. But he begged to say for connexion with the religion of Buddha, and himself that he could be no party to any that the custody of the "tooth" should be such principle as that. He thought that made over to the Buddhists themselves. for this country to acquire territory under Soon after, however, the rebellion broke a fair treaty, which treaty involved certain out in Ceylon, and in consequence of the obligations, and then to turn round and pressure of that rebellion the custody of the contend that these obligations were entered relic was resumed by the British authoriinto with idolaters, and were, therefore, not ties. Lord Torrington was obliged to rebinding upon us, would be alike unworthy voke the steps he had taken, and Earl of a Christian Government and a Christian Grey sanctioned the continuance of that people. He was happy to say, however, state of things until some other arrangein answer to the first question of the hon. ments should have been made. This exBaronet, namely, whether the connexion cited very great dissatisfaction among the between the Queen's Government in Cey- Christian community in the island; and lon and the idolatry of any part of Her when he (Sir J. Pakington) took office in Majesty's subjects therein be or be not the spring of the present year, he at once severed? he believed he was justified in endeavoured to put an end to that state of saying that all connexion really with the things. He had now to state generally, in idolatry of the Buddhists had been long answer to the questions of his hon, Friend, ago discontinued. As he had already ob- that after gravely considering the matter, served, by the treaty entered into with the he had prepared a despatch, which he King of Kandy we had incurred certain should send to Ceylon by the next mail, obligations, and one of these obligations conveying instructions to the Governor of was, that we should take part in the Budd- the determination of Her Majesty's Gohist ceremonies, assist in the performance vernment upon the subject. He must say, of their religious rites; and give them the however, that he was astonished to find that offerings of the materials which were ne- there did not exist in the Colonial Office such cessary for the performance of those rites. full information as to the facts of the case as This practice had been long discontinued. he should have expected to find there, and It was finally put an end to, he believed, without which it was exceedingly difficult by Sir Robert Wilmot Horton, then Go- to issue instructions upon a subject of so vernor of Ceylon, in 1834. A sum of complicated a nature with the decision and money-3001.— -was agreed to be paid to clearness he should have desired. The the Buddhists in lieu of the contributions instructions which the Government were which had been formerly paid for the per- prepared to send out were these: that formance of the Buddhist rites; and from with regard to the tooth, its possession was that period, he might say, our connexion to be transferred at once, and entirely, to with the idolatries practised in the island the Buddhists themselves, the Governor had ceased to exist. But there remained being instructed to provide a safe place for two other points in which we were connect- its custody. The 300l. a year, agreed to be ed with the Buddhists: one of these was paid by Sir Robert Wilmot Horton, in lieu the appointment of a portion of the priest of the other contributions which were prehood; the other, the custody of the Budd- viously made, having, in his (Sir J. Pakhist relic, known by the name of "Budd-ington's) opinion, been withdrawn with ha's tooth." He believed the attention of very great injustice to the parties, he prothe noble Lord opposite (Lord John Rus-posed to issue instructions that, as a comsell) was directed to this part of the subject pensation for its loss, the Governor should in 1840; and subsequently, when his noble give the Buddhists an extent of land equiFriend the Earl of Derby-then Lord Stan-valent in value to 300l. a year, so that ley-was at the Colonial Office, his atten- they should not be worse off in that retion was also called to the subject, and his spect than they were before. With regard