JANUARY, 1797.]

[H. OF R.

Mr. GILBERT hoped the petition would be referred to the committee proposed; he thought it laid claim to the humanity of the House. He thought every just satisfaction should be given, and attention paid, to every class of persons who appeal for decision to the House.

Mr. W. SMITH said, the practice of a former time, in a similar case, was, that the petition was sealed up and sent back to the petitioners, not being allowed even to remain on the files of the office. This method, he said, ought to be pursued with respect to the present petition. It was not a matter that claimed the attention of the Legislature of the United States. He thought it of such an improper nature, as to be surprised any gentleman would present a petition of the kind. These men are slaves, and, he thought, not entitled to attention from that body; to encourage slaves to petition the House would have a tendency to invite continual applications. Indeed it would tend to spread an alarm throughout the Southern States; it would act as an "entering-wedge," whose consequences could not be foreseen. This is a kind of property on which the House has no power to legislate. He hoped it would not be committed at all; it was not a proper subject for Legislative attention. He was not of the opinion of some gentlemen, that the House were bound to sit on every question recommended to their notice. He thought particular attention ought to be paid to the lateness of the session; if this subject were to be considered, too much time of the House would be devoured which was much wanted on important business.

Mr. THATCHER said, he was in favor of referring this petition. He could see no reason which had been adduced to prove the impropriety of receiving a petition from these people. The gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. BLOUNT) is of the opinion that these people being slaves, the House ought not to pay attention to their prayer. This, he said, was quite new language-a system of conduct which he never saw the House practise, and hoped he never should. That the House should not receive a petition without an evidence to prove it was from a free man. This was a language

The gentlemen from Virginia (Mr. MADISON and Mr. HEATH) had said, it was a Judicial and not a Legislative question; they say the petition proves it, and that it ought not to be attended to. Mr. T. said, he saw no proof whatever of the impropriety of the House receiving it. There might be some Judicial question growing out of the case; but that was no reason, because it might possibly undergo a Judicial course, that the General Government were not to be petitioned. The gentleman from South Carolina (Mr. SMITH) had said, "that this was a kind of property on which the House could not legislate;" but he would answer, this was a kind of property on which they were bound to legislate. The fugitive act could prove this authority; if petitions were not to be received they would have to legislate in the dark. It appeared plainly that these men were manumitted by their masters; and because a number of men who called themselves legislators should, after they had the actual enjoyment of their liberty, come forward and say that these men should not remain at liberty, and actually authorize their recaptivity, he thought it exceedingly unjust to deprive them of the right of petitioning to have their injuries redressed. These were a set of men on whom the fugitive law had no power, and he thought they claimed protection under the power of that House, which always ought to lean towards freedom. Though they could not give freedom to slaves, yet he hoped gentlemen would never refuse to lend their aid to secure freemen in their rights against tyrannical imposition.

Mr. CHRISTIE thought no part of the fugitive act operated against freedom. He thought no good could be derived from sending the petition to a committee; they could not prove whether they were slaves or not. He was much surprised any gentleman in the House should present such a petition. Mr. C. said, he was of the same opinion with the gentleman from South Carolina (Mr. SMITH) that the petition ought to be sent back again. He hoped the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. SWANWICK) Would never hand such another petition into the House.

Mr. HOLLAND said, the gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. THATCHER) said, the House ought to lean towards freedom." Did he mean to set all slaves at liberty, or receive petitions from all? Sure he was, that if this was received, it would not be long before the table would be filled with similar complaints, and the House might sit for no other purpose than to hear them. It was a Judicial question, and the House ought not to pretend to determine the point; why, then, should they take up time upon it? To put an end to it he hoped, it would be ordered to lie on the table.

Mr. MACON said, he had hearkened very closely to the observations of gentlemen on the subject, and could see no reason to alter his desire that it would not be committed. No man, he said, wished to encourage petitions more than himself, and no man had considered this subject more. These men could not receive any aid from the General Government; but by application to the State, justice would be done them. Trials of this kind had very frequently been brought on in all the different courts of that State, and had very often ended in the freedom of slaves; the appeal was fair, and justice was done. Mr. M. thought it a very delicate subject for the General Government to act on; he hoped it would not be committed; but he should not be sorry if the proposition of a gentleman (Mr. SMITH) was to take place, that it was to be sent back again.

Mr. W. SMITH observed, that a gentleman (Mr. THATCHER) had uttered a wish to draw these people from their state of slavery to liberty. Mr. S. did not think they were sent there to take up the subject of emancipation. When subjects of this kind are brought up in the House they ought to be deprecated as dangerous. They tended to produce very uncomfortable circumstances.

Mr. VARNUM said, the petitioners had received injury under a law of the United States, (the fugitive act) and not merely a law of North Carolina, and therefore, he thought, they had an undoubted right to the attention of the General Government if that act bore hard on them. They stated themselves to be freemen, and he did not see any opposition of force to convince the House they were not; surely it could not be said that color alone should designate them as slaves. If these people had been free, and yet were taken up under a law of the United States, and put into prison, then it appeared plainly the duty of the House to inquire whether that act had such an unjust tendency, and if it had, proper amendments should be made to it to prevent the like consequences in future. It required nothing more under that act than that the person suspected should be brought before a single magistrate, and evidence given that he is a slave, which evidence the magistrate could not know if distant from the State; the person may be a freeman, for it would not be easy to know whether the evidence was good, at a distance from the State; the poor man is then sent to his State in slavery. Mr. V. hoped the House would take all possible care that freemen should not be made slaves; to be deprived of liberty was more important than to be deprived of property. He could not think why gentlemen should be against having the fact examined; if it appears that they are slaves, the petition will of course be dismissed, but if it should appear they are free, and receive injury under the fugitive act, the United States ought to amend it, so that justice should be done.

Mr. BLOUNT said, admitting those persons

[FEBRUARY, 1797.

who had been taken up were sent back to North Carolina, they would then have permission to apply to any of the courts in the State for a fair trial of their plea; there are very few courts in which some negroes have not tried this cause, and obtained their liberty. He agreed with the gentleman from Massachusetts, on the freedom of these men to procure their rights; it did not appear to him that they were free; true they had been set free, but that manumission was from their masters, who had not a right to set them free without permission of the Legisla ture.

Mr. KITCHELL could not see what objection could obtain to prevent these people being heard. The question was not now, whether they are or are not slaves, but it is on a law of the United States. They assert that this law does act injuriously to them; the question is, therefore, whether a committee shall be appointed to inquire on the improper force of this law on the case of these men; if they are freemen, he said, they ought not to be sent back from the most distant part of the United States to North Carolina, to have justice done them, but they ought to receive it from the General Government who made the law they complain of.

Mr. K. said, he had not examined the force of the law on the subject, and was not prepared to decide; there could be no evil in referring it for examination, when the committee would report their opinion of the subject and gentlemen be prepared to act on it.

On the question for receiving the petition being put, it was negatived-ayes 33, noes 50.*

TUESDAY, February 7. THOMAS SPRIGG, from Maryland, appeared, and took his seat.

Increase of Salaries.

A bill was also received from the Senate for increasing the compensation of the members of the Legislature and certain officers of Government; which was read, and, on motion that it be read a second time, it was carried, 83 to 30. It was accordingly read a second time.

The bill contemplates an advance of $5,000 to the present salary of the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and $2,000 to the VICE PRESI DENT, to commence on the 4th of March next, and continue for four years; and that the members of the Senate and House of Representatives, the Secretary of State, the Secretary of the Treasury, the Secretary of War, Attorney General, Postmaster General, Assistant Postmaster General, Comptroller of the Treasury, Auditor, Register, Commissioner of the Revenue, Accountant of the War Department, the Secretary of the Senate, the Clerk of the House of Representatives, and the principal clerks employed by them, the Sergeant-at-Arms of the

*Yeas and nays not taken.

FEBRUARY, 1797.]

[H. OF R.

Mr. HARTLEY wished the gentleman would consent to some day next week. He could not say he was ready to agree to the whole of the advances proposed, but he wished the subject to be taken into consideration, and perhaps by the time he had mentioned they might have some further information on the subject of our finances.

Mr. MACON said, the most regular way for the gentleman from Virginia to obtain his object, would be to move to have the bill committed to a Committee of the Whole, and made the order of the day for the 4th of March.

Mr. PARKER made that motion. Mr. HARTLEY hoped this motion would not be agreed to, as it was a sort of manoeuvre to get rid of the subject, which he did not approve. He would either have the bill negatived at once, made the order of some day in the present session, or postponed till the next.

Mr. AMES said gentlemen had no doubt a right to govern their own votes according to their own notions of propriety. No man had a right to prescribe to another. His conscience was no rule to any other man. But he thought he was authorized to say, they neither had nor claimed a right to do a right thing in a wrong way. To agree to the motion proposed, would be an insincere way of putting a negative upon the bill. He trusted gentlemen who wished this would do it in a more direct way. The compensation of the PRESIDENT and VICE PRESIDENT Could not be augmented, he 'said, after they had entered upon their office; and to say they would take up the subject for consideration at a time when their powers would not exist, was an evasive manner, which he approved not. It was an easy thing for gentlemen to say no on the question, without taking this circuitous way of putting an end to the subject.

Mr. VENABLE thought the view of his colleague would be answered as well by a postponement to the 3d of March as to the 4th, and it would be more orderly. Nor did he think this way of disposing of the business called for the censure which the gentleman from Massachusetts had thrown upon it. It was a question upon which that House had already decided by a considerable majority. No new light had been thrown upon the subject, and he thought it by no means disrespectful to post

Mr. PARKER had no objection to the motion standing for the 3d of March, though he did not consider the motions for the first Monday in December or the 4th of March as unparliamentary. He thought the salaries of the PRESIDENT and VICE PRESIDENT high enough. The salaof some of their public officers might at present be somewhat too low, but the time would soon come when the price of living would become lower, and then they would be fully adequate; and therefore he did not wish to see them advanced at present.

Mr. BUCK was opposed to putting off the question till the time contemplated by the present motion. To get rid of the subject in such a way, would be descending from that state of independence which they ought to preserve, and would have the appearance of a slight cast upon another branch of Government. If they were prepared to meet the question, they might as well meet it now as then. To agree to the motion proposed, would show a degree of cowardice, and effectually put it out of their power to consider and determine upon the subject. The Senate, he said, had found sufficient reason to originate this bill, and he thought, if it were only out of complaisance to them, the subject should not be treated in the way proposed. It was said that this subject had already been decided, but he did not think so. There had been no general proposition for augmenting compensation. They had had the subject under view partially, but he knew there were some members (he knew of one at least) who voted against any partial advance, because they thought it should be general. This was his motive. He thought all the officers of Government were upon an equal footing, and therefore he voted against advancing the salary of one and not of another-not because he thought they were already sufficiently compensated; he did not think they were. He wished, therefore, the subject for a general augmentation to come under discussion. If he should be convinced an advance was improper, he should give it up, and should be against putting the subject off to a time when it could not be considered.

Mr. HARTLEY again urged the propriety of postponing for a shorter period: he mentioned the 17th instant.

Mr. MACON said he was opposed to the bill in toto, and he considered the motion of the gentleman from Virginia as meant to try the question. He wished it to stand for the 4th of March, as at first proposed, because, if it stood for the 3d, the subject might be called up and acted upon on the last day of the session. He should therefore renew the 4th of March, because, if there were a majority who wished the bill to be rejected, it was desirable that as little

H. OF R.]

time as possible should be lost upon the subject.

The question for postponing till the 4th of March was put and negatived, 46 to 45.

Mr. PARKER then moved to have it postponed till the 3d of March.

Mr. HENDERSON thought it more proper to postpone till the 3d than till the 4th. He was ready, he said, to meet the question, either in a direct or indirect way. He had made a calculation, and found that the advances proposed would amount to from $100,000 to $110,000. Mr. H. believed our finances were not in a state to admit of this addition to our expenses; besides, he trusted every necessary of life would soon be reduced in price, so as to render any advance of salary to our officers unnecessary. The question was put and negatived, 57 to 32.

On motion of Mr. HARTLEY, Friday week was proposed and negatived, there being only

35 votes for it.

Mr. GALLATIN moved that the subject should be made the order for this day. He said he had voted for postponing it till the 4th of March, with a view of getting rid of it; but since it must be considered, he wished it to be disposed of as soon as possible.

Mr. SITGREAVES proposed that it be made the order of the day for Monday.

The sense of the House was first taken for Monday and negatived, there being only 41 votes for it. It was then put for this day and carried, there being 58 votes for it.

WEDNESDAY, February 8.
Election of President.

The SPEAKER informed the House that the hour was come at which they had appointed to meet the Senate, for the purpose of counting the votes for, and declaring the election of a PRESIDENT and VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and that the Clerk would inform the Senate they were ready to receive them.

The Clerk accordingly waited upon the Senate, and the PRESIDENT and members of the Senate soon after entered and took their seats, the PRESIDENT on the right hand of the Speaker of the House of Representatives, and the members of the Senate on the same side of the Chamber; when the President of the Senate (Mr. ADAMS) thus addressed the two Houses: Gentlemen of the Senate and

of the House of Representatives: The purpose for which we are assembled is expressed in the following resolutions. [Mr. ADAMS here read the resolutions which had been adopted by the two Houses relative to the subject.] I have received packets containing the certificates of the votes of the Electors for a President and Vice President of the United States from all the sixteen States of the Union: I have also received duplicates of the returns by post from fifteen of the States. No duplicate from the State of Kentucky is yet come to hand.

It has been the practice heretofore, on similar occasions, to begin with the returns from the State at

[FEBRUARY, 1797. one end of the United States, and to proceed to the other; I shall therefore do the same at this time.

Mr. ADAMS then took up the packet from the State of Tennessee, and after having read the superscription, broke the seal, and read the certificate of the election of the Electors. He then gave it to the Clerk of the Senate, requesting him to read the report of the Electors, which he accordingly did. All the papers were then handed to the tellers, viz: Mr. SEDGWICK, ON the part of the Senate, and Messrs. SITGREAVES and PARKER on the part of the House of Representatives; and when they had noted the contents, the President of the Senate proceeded with the other States, in the following order: