JANUARY, 1802.] Internal Revenues. [H. OF R. ed, persevering in an inflexible silence, reject- | the report and statements had left defective, ing every proposition made by a member in the the resolution had been principally brought minority, without deigning to show its fallacy, forward. And what had rendered this inforrefusing public documents for our informationmation peculiarly necessary at this time was the and that of our fellow-citizens, without show-ground which had been taken in opposition to ing, or even pretending to show, that they are the internal taxes. The only argument which unnecessary, I can only say that it militates he had heard against those taxes, and which against all my ideas of propriety. I have al- did not equally apply to the impost, was drawn ways hitherto supposed that every Representa- from the great expense which had arisen in the tive on this floor had a right to be heard; that collection. To enable the House, therefore, to he had a right to call on the majority for their decide whether the fact existed on which that reasons both when they supported and opposed argument had been founded, it became necessapublic measures. Gentlemen may, if they please, ry to inquire in the manner proposed by the meet in what they have denominated caucuses resolution whether the extraordinary expense when power was in other hands; they may then with which those taxes had been charged might confer together about the measures in which not be diminished, and whether the expense they may think proper to unite; but, sir, if their really existed in relation to each description of debates are to take place there, and there alone, them. we are not to be furnished here by them with the reasons which induce them to adopt public measures, they ought at least to open their doors to the minority, in order that, if they cannot hear their arguments in the proper place, they may not close them altogether. I trust, sir, that gentlemen themselves will see the impropriety of persevering in this line of conduct, and that they will consent to pay, if not to gentlemen in the minority, at least to their propositions, the attention and respect which they may deserve. Mr. G. said that he presumed no gentleman was prepared to say that the general expense of collection might not be diminished, and so far was he from believing that every branch of the internal taxes was subjected to the charge of nineteen or twenty per cent., he was perfectly confident that if gentlemen would agree to the resolution, the detailed statements, which the Secretary would furnish in obedience to it, would prove that the expense of collecting certain branches of those taxes would fall much short of the sum at which the same has been estimated. Mr. GRISWOLD said, that he presumed the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. RANDOLPH) had The consent of the House, said Mr. G., to requested that the extract from the report of the every call for information, had formerly been Secretary of the Treasury might be read, and so much a matter of course, that he should not which the House had just heard, for the purpose have troubled the House with any remarks upon of proving that the resolution under considera- so plain a question as the present, had not the tion ought to pass. Indeed that report, and experience of this day proved, that gentlemen the statement to which it referred, evinced in were not always to be indulged by the House the most satisfactory manner that the informa- with the information which they required; and tion required by the resolution was absolutely the profound silence which had at this time necessary for the purpose of enabling the House been observed by those gentlemen who could to decide understandingly on the proposition, either admit or reject the resolution, appeared which it was expected would soon be brought to indicate a determination on their part to forward, for abolishing the internal taxes. The refuse the important and necessary informaSecretary in his report had declared that the tion required by the resolution. He did preexpense of collecting the internal taxes amount-sume, however, that upon this occasion the ed nearly to twenty per cent. on the amount collected. It appeared, however, from the statements to which the Secretary had alluded, that the tax on stills, the carriage tax, the tax on licenses, on sales at auction, and the tax on refined sugar, had been included in one class, and the expense of collecting all those taxes, without distinguishing the charges on each branch, had been stated to be nearly twenty per cent., whilst the expense of collecting the stamp duty, another branch of the internal taxes, was short of five per cent., varying only a fraction from the charges on the revenue from impost and tonnage. These statements might be satisfactory as far as they went, but it was obvious that in examining the branches of a revenue, with a view to the expense of collection, it became necessary to ascertain the precise charge which had fallen on each branch, and to obtain this necessary information, and which House would consent to the resolution, and more particularly, as the report of the Secretary of the Treasury, which had been read at the request of the gentleman from Virginia, proved so clearly the necessity of passing it. Mr. HUGER Could not reconcile it with his sense of duty, to give a silent vote on the present occasion, nor could he but lament the strange and novel course of proceeding which gentlemen had thought proper to adopt. The intention, it would seem, was to repeal the internal taxes, right or wrong, and at all events; and so determined were gentlemen on carrying this favorite project into execution, that every thing like previous investigation, or even a wish to gain information on the subject, was hooted at and treated with the most sovereign contempt. Every, the smallest, reduction on taxes of any other description, was avowedly to be excluded, nor was any proposition to this effect H. OF R.] Internal Revenues. [JANUARY, 18: deemed worthy of even a moment's considera- | thus cavalierly what must at least beatlowed tion. The measure proposed, however, interested | to be a respectable minority? in a very particular manner that part of the community he had the honor to represent. They paid, it was true, a small portion of the internal taxes, but the various other taxes upon salt, brown sugar, coffee, &c., and the duties on imposts generally, fell more immediately and far more heavily on them. Was it not natural, | therefore, that he should have some hesitation on the subject; that he should feel anxious to see this project thoroughly and completely investigated; that he should wish to receive every possible information which might either tend to satisfy his mind as to the expediency of repealing the internal taxes only, to the total exclusion of all others, or enable him to propose some other project, equally beneficial perhaps to the public at large, and which might at the same time accord better with the immediate interests of his constituents? His constituents, he was proud to say it, had ever contributed with alacrity and cheerfulness to the wants and exigencies of the Union. They were prepared and willing, he was confident, to do so still; and he made not the least doubt but that they would readily subscribe to the exclusive repeal of the internal taxes, and submit, without a murmur, to the continuation of all the other taxes, however burdensome to themselves, provided they are convinced and well satisfied that this measure was fairly and impartially adopted for the welfare of the whole, and not for the benefit of the one at the expense of the other division of the country. It was for this purpose, therefore, that he wished the present motion to be adopted, and that he had desired the attention of the Committee of Ways and Means to be directed, particularly, to those articles of importation and of general use and necessity, such as salt, sugar, coffee, common teas, &c. He was desirous that these and similar items should be compared with the carriage tax, the tax on licenses to retail spirituous liquors, and various other similar items of the internal taxes, and that the House might be furnished with such information with respect to both, as might enable him to judge, whether there might not be a partial repeal as well of some of the external as internal taxes, and not a total and exclusive reduction of the latter, as was contemplated; whilst all the former, however grievous and inconvenient, were to be retained. Did he then ask any thing which was unreasonable or improper? Could any possible inconvénience accrue from allowing him to obtain the information he desired? If not, why refuse to indulge him in what he deemed useful, and what (at the worst) could only be regarded by gentlemen themselves as superfluous information? Was it fair; was it becoming; did it comport with that civility and politeness which was due from the one to the other, by citizens of a common country, assembled together for the express purpose of consulting upon their common interests, to treat With respect to the two only reasons whic had ever been offered in favor of the exclusive repeal of the internal tax, viz: the expense and number of officers required to collect it, wai not the immediate and precise object of the resolution under debate to inquire whether it was not possible to devise some means by which these inconveniences might be obviated, org least greatly lessened? And what objection could there be to the inquiry? Were gentlemen perfectly and entirely convinced that nothing of the kind could be done, or were they appre hensive that the thing was in itself so feasible, that an inquiry of this kind would throw a stumbling-block in the way of the project alresdy determined on, which although he would freely acknowledge, that as an abstract proposition it was expedient as much as possible, and to collect your taxes at as small an expense, and by means of as few agents as conveniently could be done, yet there was another still more important maxim which ought never to be lost sight of: this was, that the burdens of the Government, as well as the advantages which flowed from it, should be fairly, equally, impartially, and equitably distributed among every description of the citizens, in whatever part of the country they resided. If, therefore, it did happen, that a few more officers and a somewhat greater percentage were required to col lect the taxes in one than in another part of the country, this alone would most certainly and indubitably not be a sufficient reason to do away all the taxes in the one, and throw the whole burden of the Government on the inbabitants of the other. Mr. RUTLEDGE Confessed himself much puz zled by the new forms of proceeding this day adopted. Ever since he had had the honor of a seat in Congress, it had been invariably the practice, when measures were proposed not agreeable to the majority, for them to offer their objections to them. This had ever been the practice, and the experience of its convenience offered strong reasons for its continuance. When the majority stated their objections to any measure, the minority in sustaining it answered them fully; thus, both sides acted understandingly, and when the proceedings of the National Legislature went out to the people, they were at the same time informed of the reasons under which their Representatives had legislated. This had not only been the usage in Congress, but the form of proceed ing in all representative bodies with whose history we are acquainted. Even in the British House of Commons, which gentlemen had often and emphatically styled a mockery of representation, so great is the respect paid to public opinion, that the majority deem it their duty to assign in debate the reasons of their conduct. Although the Minister in England has quite as much confidence in the strength of his majority as gentlemen here can have in theirs, yet, in feel . JANUARY, 1802.] Duties on Imports. [H. OF R. ing power, he does not forget right, and his re- | themselves, and congratulate them on their gard for public opinion is so great, that he silence. There is something peculiarly impres never secures his measures by a silent vote. In sive in this mode of opposing every thing that these days of innovation, we, it seems, are to is urged. It is seldom that gentlemen have pursue a different course. When the resolu- exhibited such a remarkable appearance of a tion offered this morning by his honorable friend philosophical assembly. from New York (Mr. MORRIS) was taken into consideration, not a voice was raised against it. This profound silence made us expect a unanimous vote; but, in consequence, he supposed, of some outdoor arrangements, it was rejected by this silent majority. He had seen many deliberative assemblies, but never before witnessed such a procedure. He would not say whether this was respectful towards the minority, who, we have been told from high authority, have their equal rights-he would not say whether it was dignified as it regarded the majority, but, without pretending to any spirit of prophecy, he would venture to say it could not be deemed politic or wise by the people of this country. When the doors of Congress were open, and persons admitted to take the debates, the people expected to be fully informed of the views and motives which governed the votes of their Representatives. But it seems our constituents are not to be treated with this heretofore common civility. In proposing measures we are obliged to guess at what gentlemen feel against them, (for they say nothing,) and to defend them, without knowing in what they are objectionable to those who govern in this House. This kind of governing is but ill calculated to produce harmony, to restore social intercourse, and to heal the wounds inflicted on society by the spirit of party. The question was taken, and it passed in the negative yeas 37, nays 57. Duties on Imports. Mr. RUTLEDGE called up for consideration the resolution which he moved on Friday, on which the previous question was then taken, viz: "Resolved, That the Committee of Ways and Means be instructed particularly to inquire into the expediency of reducing the duties on brown sugar, coffee, and bohea tea." Mr. GRISWOLD hoped the resolution would be decided upon. Mr. RUTLEDGE hoped the reference would obtain. These articles paid the highest rate of duties and were of the first necessity. In looking over the rates of duties on imports, he saw many articles that were taxed enormously high. Those in the resolution were of the first necessity, the duty high, and laid when they were at war prices; while the people received war prices for their produce, they could with convenience pay for these articles, though high. The object of the resolution was merely to inquire, and he did not see how it could interfere with any object gentlemen have in view. Mr. DANA.-I beg liberty to tender the homage of my profound respects, for the dignified situation in which gentlemen have now placed "That dumb Legislature will immortalize your name "-is said to have been the language of a certain distinguished General to a certain nominal Abbé, who has been represented as having pigeon-holes full of constitutions of his own making. During the memorable night at St. Cloud, when the French Council of Ancients, and Council of Five Hundred, were adjourned— to meet no more-it may be recollected, the powers of executive government were provisionally committed to three persons, styled Consuls, and two of them were the General and the Abbé. From each of the Councils, twenty-five members were selected, to compose a commission, and assist the provisional Consuls in preparing a constitution for France. Of the numerous projects of constitutions presented by the Abbé, it is said no part was finally adopted except the plan of a dumb Legislature. This, the General instantly seized with apparent enthusiasm, exclaiming to the Abbé, “that dumb Legislature will immortalize your name! And it was determined to have a corps legislatif that should vote, but not debate. It was scarcely to be expected that any thing like this would soon take place in our own country. But it is the prerogative of great geniuses, when in similar circumstances, to arrive at the same great results, although with some difference in the process. Nor can I forbear offering my tribute of admiration, for the genius who has projected a mode of proceeding among us, that so nearly rivals the plan adopted in France. I know not to whom is due the honor of this luminous discovery. After ascribing to him, however, all merited glory, permit me to examine the force of the argument relied on by gentlemen in opposition to the proposed resolution. Their argument is silence. I hope to be excused if I do not discuss this subject in the most satisfactory manner; as silence is a new species of logic, about which no directions have been found in any treatise on logic that I have ever seen. It will be my endeavor to reply to gentlemen by examining some points which may be considered as involved in their dumb arguments. One of these points is-that certain members of this House have pledged themselves to their constituents, for repealing all the internal taxes. They may have declared their opinions to this effect, before the election; and, being chosen under such circumstances, may now deem themselves bound in honor not to vary. The terms assented to between their constituents and themselves may, therefore, be viewed by them as the particular rule of their own conduct. But is this House to be regarded in the same light with the English House of Commons, during H. OF R.] Lieutenant Sterret, his Officers and Crew. the early period of their history, when the knights of shires, and the representatives of cities and boroughs, were instructed on what terms they should bargain with the Crown for special privileges, and were limited to the price agreed on by their constituents? The situation of gentlemen who have thus pledged themselves to vote for repealing the internal taxes, must be irksome, indeed, if on mature consideration they should believe it more proper and more beneficial for the country to have other taxes reduced. Those who have entered into a stipulation of this sort, so as to feel it as a point of honor, are so peculiarly circumstanced that they might think it too assuming in me, were I so much as to express a desire that they would vote for reducing some of the duties on imports, instead of repealing all the internal taxes. It is to be hoped, the number of members who have pledged themselves in this manner, does not exceed twenty-five or thirty. Another point involved in this argument of silence is, that other gentlemen may have pledged themselves to these, and given them a promise of support on this subject. It must be acknowledged that this was more than was required on account of their seat in this House. If any gentlemen have absolutely so pledged themselves to their constituents, it must indeed be difficult to convince them. On this point, their minds must be so differently constituted from mine, that there does not seem to be any common principle between us that can be assumed as the basis of argumentation. Another point is, the Executive has recommended a repeal of all the internal taxes, and not any reduction of the impost. And will gentlemen act upon this as a sufficient reason for their conduct? Is it now to become a principle, that the Executive is to deliberate, and the Legislature to act, and that no measure is to be adopted unless proposed by the Executive? Would it not be better for the country to abolish this House, and to avoid useless expense, if it is to be nothing more than one of the ancient Parliaments of France, employed to register the edicts of a master? The silence of the gentlemen may also be considered as having relation to their great desire for the harmony of social intercourse. To prevent its being disturbed in the House by debating, they may have come to a determination that all the great questions shall be settled by gentlemen of a certain description, when met in nocturnal conclave, and be only voted upon in this place. If such be the fact, it seems but reasonable that any of the members of this House should be admitted in meetings of the conclave, as delegates from the territorial districts are admitted into Congress, with a right to debate, although not to vote. If, however, this is thought too much, gentlemen should at least have galleries provided, so that other members of the Legislature might be admitted as spectators, and have the opportunity of knowing the reasons for public measures. [JANUARY, 1802. The question was called for, when Mr. Eus TIS begged the Speaker would state it, as, in listening to the arguments of the gentleman from Connecticut, he had forgotten it. Mr. RUTLEDGE said he was much pleased by the question of the honorable gentleman from Massachusetts. When gentlemen ask, What is the question? it is to be hoped that they will respect its merits; but, from the scene this day acted, he had learned that the only inquiry with gentlemen would be, from what side does this come? The question was then taken by yeas and nays, and lost-yeas 35, nays 58. Mr. SPRIGG reported a bill for the government of the Territory of Columbia. [The bill establishes a Legislature, chosen by the taxable citizens of the United States one year resident in the Territory, composed of a House of Representatives, to consist of twentyfive members, seven whereof to be chosen by the district of Rock Creek, seven from the part west of Rock Creek, and eleven by the county of Alexandria. The Governor to be appointed by the President of the United States. The Territory to pay the Legislature, and the United States the Governor. The judges to hold their offices during life, unless removed by the Presi dent on the application of two successive Legislatures.] Referred to the Committee of the whole House on Tuesday next. A memorial and remonstrances of sundry inhabitants of the county and town of Alexandria, in the District of Columbia, was presented to the House and read, praying that Congress will not agree to any plan, or pass any bill respecting the government of the said District, which shall, by the establishment of a subordinate Legislative or subordinate Executive, or other wise, tend to unite under its power, the two parts of the district, as separated by the river Potomac.-Referred to the Committee of the whole House last appointed. THURSDAY, January 28. Lieutenant Sterret, his Officers and Crew. The House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the report of a select committee of the nineteenth instant, on the resolutions of the Senate, in the form of joint resolutions of the two Houses, "in respect to Lieutenant Sterret, the officers, and crew of the United States' schooner Enterprise;" to which Committee of the whole House were also referred the said resolutions of the Senate; and, after some time spent therein, the SPEAKER resumed the chair, and Mr. Davis reported that the committee had had the said report and resolutions under consideration, and directed him to repeat 1 to the House their disagreement to the said resolutions of the Senate, and their agreement to two resolutions contained in the report of the select committee thereupon, in the form of joint resolutions of the two Houses; which he delivered in at the Clerk's table. The House then proceeded to consider the said report and resolutions: Whereupon, the resolutions of the Senate, to which the Committee of the whole House reported their disagreement, being twice read at the Clerk's table, in the words following, to wit: Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That, as a testimony of the high sense they entertain of the nautical skill and gallant conduct of Lieutenant Andrew Sterret, commander of the United States' schooner Enterprise, manifested in an engagement with, and in the capture of, a Tripolitan corsair, of superior force, in the Mediterranean Sea, fitted out by the Bey of that Regency to harass the trade, capture the vessels, and enslave the citizens, of these States, the President of the United States be requested to present Lieutenant Sterret with a gold medal, with such suitable devices thereon, as he shall deem proper, and emblematic of that heroic action, and the mercy extended to a barbarous enemy, who three times struck his colors twice, and recommenced hostilities: an act of humanity, however unmerited, highly honorable to the American flag and nation; and that the President of the United States be also requested to present to each of the Lieutenants, Porter and Lawson, of the Navy, and Lieutenant Lane of the Marines, who were serving on board the Enterprise in the engagement, and contributed, by their gallant conduct, to the success of the day, a sword, with such suitable devices as the President may deem fit. "Be it further resolved, In consideration of the intrepid behavior of the crew of the Enterprise, under the orders of their gallant commander, and their receiving no prize money, the corsair being dismantled and released after her capture, that one month's pay, over and above the usual allowance, be paid to all the other officers, sailors, and marines, who were actually on board and engaged in that action; for the expenditure of which charge Congress will make the necessary appropriation." The question was taken that the House do concur with the Committee of the whole House in their disagreement to the same, and resolved in the affirmative. The resolutions contained in the report of the select committee, to which the Committee of the whole House reported their agreement, being twice read, in the words following, to wit: "Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That they entertain a high sense of the gallant conduct of Lieutenant Sterret, and the other officers, seamen, and marines, on board the schooner Enterprise, in the capture of a Tripolitan corsair, of fourteen guns and eighty men. "Resolved, That the President of the United States be requested to present to Lieutenant Sterret a sword, commemorative of the aforesaid heroic action; and that one month's extra pay be allowed to VOL. II.-38 [H. OF R. all the other officers, seamen, and marines, who were on board the Enterprise when the aforesaid action took place." The question was taken that the House do concur with the Committee of the whole House in their agreement to the same, and resolved in the affirmative. Ordered, That the said resolutions be engrossed, and read the third time to-morrow. MONDAY, February 8. Mr. SMILIE called up his resolution that a committee be appointed to revise the laws respecting imprisonment for debts due the United States. His objects, he said, were two; to secure the debtor's property, and to inflict some penalty or provide some remedy instead of imprisonment for life. Mr. RUTLEDGE was opposed to imprisonment for life, where the debtor gave up his whole property, and was unable to pay all. He had known, in South Carolina, revenue officers imprisoned for debts due the United States, who had been many years confined; men of good character, men of honesty, but who, through ignorance of transacting certain business, or their misfortunes, were unable to pay. He knew an individual of that State who had applied to that House for relief; his petition was referred to the Secretary of the Treasury; the Secretary felt a delicacy in interfering in the case; the petition was not granted; and the person had now been in jail five years, though his inability to pay did not arise from having wasted the public money, or from aught but misfortune; for he was acknowledged to be a man of good character. He was averse to such cruelty. Hence the necessity of making some provision that the innocent, when distinctions can, as in most instances, be made, may not be subjected to cruel punishments, that were of no benefit to the United States. Why send him to jail? Why lock him up there? Why prevent his being able to support his family? Mr. SMILIE. It is the case that when you exceed in making your laws what is reasonable, those laws, as the present concerning debtors to the United States, will not be executed. The present law cannot be put in execution. He wished some sufficient penalty. This was not the proper stage to give his sentiments; were it, he should say, he thought the defaulter ought to give up the property, and perhaps be imprisoned a period. But the Legislature are not the proper judges, and ought not to interfere; the Legislative and Judicial Departments should be kept separate. We want some uniform law, operating on all according to their demerit. The subject was postponed till to-morrow. |