APRIL, 1798.]

Navy Department.

[H. OF R.

especially as the Navy Department was likely to be considerably augmented.

was established. Whenever an office was established, something was always found for it to do. Soon after the War Department was established we had an Indian war; and after that Indian war ceased, another establishment was made under the name of the Accountant's Of fice. If the business was increased, new clerks might be employed, but he should be against any new department. If we were engaged in hostilities, and our naval power of course increased, such an establishment might be necessary; but at present he did not think it necessary, nor did he think our revenue equal to the support of a Navy which should require such an establishment to take care of it. If this office was to superintend the construction of vessels; a number of galleys were also contemsels, persons acquainted with this business might be employed under the Secretary of War. The present expense of the War Department was $18,250 a year; and though there would not be much to do in this new office, he supposed the expense would not be much less; and, besides, Congress would be importuned, from session to session, to increase our naval force. Mr. W. said he was desirous of making every defence for our country, yet he wished to keep down our expenses as much as possible. If circumstances called for going further into the business of the Navy, he should not object to it.

Mr. SEWALL said, when the House was considering any subject relative to the increase of the Navy, complaints were made of the enormous expenses and of the little responsibility which attends the business; and when it has been said that the greatness of the expense might have arisen from a want of knowledge in the persons who had the care of the business, it was said that defect ought to be remedied. This department is intended to do that, and, by the expense of a few hundred dollars, he had no doubt thousands would be saved. When talking about vessels, it was complained that too great an expense was incurred on this object; now it is said there is no object for the proposed officer to attend to. But the gentleman from New York (Mr. WILLIAMS) was afraid, if this office was established, it would be the means of increasing the Navy. This certainly could not be done, contrary to the will of Congress.

He thought there were obvious reasons for the establishment of this department. It was well known that an officer might be well acquainted with the business of the army, without knowing any thing about a navy; and a man employed at the head of such a department ought to have some knowledge of the business committed to his care. Mr. S. said, however well the present Secretary of War might be acquainted with army concerns, he believed he was not conversant with naval matters. In consequence of this, he had a number of agents employed under him. Indeed, the War Department had so much business on its hands, as not to be able to pay a sufficient attention to our naval establishment. He therefore believed it was necessary to make this new establishment,

Mr. S. SMITH believed, after all the struggles which had been made on this subject, it would at length be found necessary for the United States seriously to turn their attention to the establishment of an efficient naval force; and the sooner gentlemen could bring their minds to this, the better it would be for the general good. If this proposition had been brought forward at the commencement of the session, he should have thought it unnecessary; but, from the increase which had been made during this session, he thought the establishment proper. $950,000 had been appropriated for providing twelve vesplated. A ship of war or schooner, it appears, has been built on the lakes, and some galleys on the rivers. These, with the frigates and cutters, form an establishment which will require a naval man to superintend it. An expenditure of two millions of dollars, he supposed, would be authorized this session; and a man knowing something of naval architecture will be able to save more, in the course of this year, to the United States, than will pay ten years of the expenses of this office. A merchant going into the building of vessels without a knowledge of the business will find the truth of this fact. The great expenditure attending the building of the frigates, he supposed had been chiefly owing to the want of such an establishment as the present. The gentleman from New York had stated the expense of the War Department at $18,250; but one-half of that expense was incurred in the office of the Accountant of the War Department; and as there would be no need of a new Accountant, the expense could not be doubled. The duties of the War Department are greatly increased, and might be further increased during the present session; and an expenditure of the kind proposed might save the throwing away of thousands of dollars.

Mr. MACON said, the arguments in favor of this bill were derived from a want of knowledge of naval affairs in the War Department. He thought that might be supplied without the establishment of a new department; but he believed the building of the frigates had mostly been carried on under the direction of the captains who were to have the command of them. More clerks had been added to the War Department, in consideration of the business which the Navy had occasioned. He believed the more officers were appointed, the more money would be expended.

Mr. OTIS said, the gentleman from New York had opposed this bill on different grounds from the gentleman from Pennsylvania. He did not make any reply to the gentleman from Pennsylvania, because he expected opposition from him and some others, to every measure which had the defence of the country for its object; and, as the session was drawing to a close, he thought it best to have as little debate as pos

H. OF R.]

Navy Department.

Mr. MODOWELL said, he should be opposed to the bill, if he had no other objection to it than that it went to countenance the idea, according to the gentlemen from Maryland and Massachusetts, that this country must go into the establishment of a large naval power. The great saving to be derived from this office, he understood to be from savings in the building of vessels; but, as the twelve vessels which were lately voted are proposed to be purchased, ready built, he supposed this reason did not apply at present. If there was no intention, therefore, (which he trusted there was not,) of carrying our Naval Establishment to any considerable extent, he could see no occasion for the creation of this office. For, if this Secretary of the Navy was appointed, he would also be obliged to rely upon others, in a great degree, for information.

[APRIL, 1798. sible, and that the sooner the question was tak-bate. [The SPEAKER said no such expression en the better; but when he saw a gentleman had been made use of; if it had, he should have rise in opposition to it, upon whose support he checked it.] Had it not been for an expression calculated, he was apprehensive lest it might of this kind, he should not have risen on this have an effect upon other persons on whose sup-question. He wished to hear every man deport he also relied. The gentleman from New liver his opinion freely. Mr. C. did not believe York seemed to apprehend some new and heavy the bill to be a proper one, and he should thereexpense was to be incurred, and that some fore vote against it. greater caution was now necessary than heretofore. What saving, then, does he mean to make by opposing the establishment of this of fice? Since he supposes the same clerks will be sufficient, it will only be the salary of the chief officer, which, Mr. O. supposed, would be $3,500-a greater saving than that which would be made by such a person in every ship built or purchased. Taking the expense of our Naval Establishment at one million dollars a year, it would only be an expense of one-third per cent., which every one must allow was a mere trifle, to have the money of the public well expended. The services of the War and Navy Departments were, he said, perfectly distinct. The duties of the War Department became every day more arduous, and whatever gentlemen may think, they must become still more so. This opposition coming from a friend, he could not suppose it arose from a bad motive, but merely from a narrow conception of what is conceived to be the agricultural interest. Agriculture and commerce, said Mr. O., are twin sisters, and cannot live separate from each other; they must live together, or expire at the same moment. It was the duty of gentlemen representing agriculturists thus to speak to their constituents. It was an axiom realized by every politician in the world. The fact was, that every thing spent upon the Naval Department was so much saved, in which the agricultural part of the country partake very largely.

Mr. T. CLAIBORNE never remembered to have heard such language as had fallen from the gentleman last up. He laments, said Mr. C., that a gentleman who usually voted with him should dare to think for himself. Are gentlemen's opinions and language thus to be circumscribed? [Mr. O. explained.] Mr. C. continued, the gentleman was willing that all questions should now be taken without debate. Does this mean, said he, that there are a majority of members in this House who must always be in the right, and a minority always in the wrong? If this be the case, they had better dismiss the minority, and do the business themselves. Were not gentlemen any longer to express their difference of opinion? Would this be the way to keep the Government together, or to preserve harmony in the country? If this were to be the situation of things, he should regret it with tears in his eyes. He had himself no mathematical certainty that any opinion of his was right; nor did he think the gentleman from Massachusetts ought to expect men to bow to his. Such an assumption led to mischief of a serious kind. What! to say we have a majority, and therefore we will have no de

Mr. HARPER said, the naval defence which this House thought necessary for the service of the country having been voted, he could not agree with those gentlemen who consider this as a question of defence. He thought it a question of economy, and, in this view, he should reply to some observations which had been made upon it.

The

He believed our naval defence would be much more efficaciously and speedily provided by means of the proposed establishment than if the bill was rejected. So far, indeed, it is a question of defence, but only collaterally so. point of view in which this bill should be considered, is simply this: will it not effect with more speed and economy the marine defence now existing, as well as that contemplated? He himself had no doubt as to the fact. Indeed, he would ask the gentleman from North Carolina, whether, if he were about to erect a distillery on his place, he would employ his overseer to do it, who, though he might understand the business of his farm very well, knew nothing of building. He certainly would not; and if this would be bad policy in an individual, it would be equally so in a nation. Besides, the expense would be so trifling as only to amount (as had been stated) to one-third per cent., though traders were in the habit of paying five per cent. to have their business done.

But it was said, that if an office of this kind was established, it would soon create business. But the business is already created. We have, said he, already a marine of fifteen ships of war. This, he knew, was comparatively a small force, but in the establishment of which we shall yet expend two millions of dollars, and the support of which will amount at least to $700,000 or $800,000 annually. When the War Department

Mr. R. WILLIAMS was ready to acknowledge he did not believe it could ever be the interest of this country to go into the establishment of a large naval power, and therefore he should not be in favor of the present bill on that ground. Nor did he think there was any good reason for dividing the military and naval business, except there was more than could be attended to by the present establishment. But it was said the business was of a different nature, and therefore it ought to be in separate departments, as one man cannot be supposed to understand both concerns. That objection would apply to any of the other departments; and whenever this rule of dividing business shall be adopted, we shall get men of inferior talents to do it. When the Government was established, it was thought that a War Department would be equal to the military and naval concerns of this country. But it was said a navy was not then thought of; it was, however, doubtless thought of when the frigates were ordered to be built, and it was not then gone into. It was, however, said that much money had been lost for want of an officer of this kind. This was mere assertion, and it was by no means clear that the business would be done better with such an officer than without him.

[H. OF R.

was first established, the object of its care was | It had been proposed last winter to purchase all not, he believed, of equal magnitude. the live-oak timber in the Southern States; afterwards a proposition was brought forward for the establishment of navy yards. Those measures had been defeated, and they were now called upon to establish a new department for this favorite object. He was not willing to do it. The gentleman from Massachusetts said there would only be a difference between making a new office, and continuing to do the business in the War Department, of the salary of the chief officer; but if he looked at the second clause of the bill, he would find himself mistaken, as there was in that provision for a principal clerk, and such other clerks as he shall judge necessary: so that he may have a clerk for every port in the Union, if he pleases. If he represented, as the gentleman from Massachusetts does, a commercial interest, he might be as favorable to a Navy as him; but as that was not the case, he was opposed to it. He gave his approbation to such appropriations as he thought necessary; and if, in this instance, he differed in opinion from the gentleman from Massachusetts, he should stand excused. He believed with that gentleman, that the commercial and agricultural interests were closely connected; they differed only as to the extent to which it was proper to carry our naval defence. He did not wish, however, at present, to reject the bill. He believed it might be amended, and he had no objection to the question being postponed for that purpose.

But it was said, it was necessary to go into this measure for the sake of appearances. To whom are these appearances to be made? Not to our own people, but to European nations. The gentleman from Massachusetts says we ought to adopt their opinion upon this subject. He viewed a policy of this kind the most fatal of any other to this country. He believed that the less we had to do with European politics, and their mode of administration, the better. The only object in view, with that House, ought to be the interest of their own country. What, said he, is the situation of those countries which have gone into the establishment of large navies? They are involved in debt which they never can, and never will, pay.

Mr. LIVINGSTON said, he was almost tempted to smile at the arrogant pretensions of some gentlemen in this House, in their treatment of others, at least their equals on this floor, whatever they might be out of doors, being equally with them Representatives of the people. They were told by the gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. OTIs) that opposition was expected, was looked for, from certain gentlemen; that no argument was necessary on the occasion, because those members who were opposed to all measures of defence, would oppose this measure also; but that those who had originated the measure Mr. J. WILLIAMS said, the only point in dis- would carry it into effect. This simple declarapute was, whether a separate office should be tion of a strength of party was also attended established for the business of the Navy, or with a very handsome rebuke of one of his colwhether it should be put under the care of a leagues (Mr. J. WILLIAMS) for having dared to superintendent in the War Department. He doubt the propriety of the measure before the wished the gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. committee. He was happy to find this rebuke OTIS) had spared his observations until he had had produced its effect, and that though his colheard those of the gentleman from Maryland, league was at first very decidedly against the (Mr. S. SMITH.) It had appeared to him that a bill, he was now disposed to doubt; and the superintendent in the War Department would effect of another rebuke, he supposed, would have been sufficient, and he yet thought so. He obtain his vote in favor of the new establishdid not think the business of the Navy was so ment. For his own part, neither the rebuke, great as to require a separate establishment. nor the preliminary observations with which it There was more business in the War Depart- was accompanied, had produced any effect upon ment in 1794 than at present, and nothing was him. He did very much doubt the propriety then heard of a new department. He should of the measure; for, although there was a great not have opposed this measure if he had not deal of business in the War Office, and the same been convinced that every measure taken to in-person could not be supposed to be acquainted crease the Navy beyond its present establish- with military and naval affairs, if a ship-builder ment would have a bad effect on this country. I was to have the appointment, he could not think

H. OF R.]

Military Appropriations.

[APRIL, 1798.

such a person fit to be one of the great council | the blank in the Quartermaster's Department of the nation; and it must be recollected that with $200,000 again recurring, the person who holds this office will become one of the counsellors of the President on all great concerns.

Mr. GALLATIN moved to fill the blank with $150,000, which was the sum he had proposed on a former day, since which, he said, the House had received a number of statements from the Secretary of War, in order to induce a larger

It was said that this establishment was necessary, in order to give an appearance of defence to Europe, as if the establishment of a Depart-appropriation. As there seemed to be a general ment of the Navy was to have the effect to do away all our past and to prevent future injuries. But our appearance to Europe was not all; the example of European countries was mentioned. All were said to have a Marine Department. The practice of Europe, Mr. L. said, had proved itself to be a bad one, as the navies of those countries had proved the ruin of them.

The yeas and nays were taken upon this bill going to its third reading, and decided in the affirmative yeas 47, nays 41, as follows:

concurrence of opinion to restrict the expenses of the War Department, he wished some gentlemen, better able to do it than himself, would compare the number of troops in service with the sums there required. Mr. G. noticed a number of items which appeared to him unaccountably extravagant, and contrasted the very great expense incurred on the North-western frontier with that of the troops employed on the seaboard. Mr. G. also took a view of the expenses under this head from the year 1789 to the present time, in order to show that $150,000 would be a sufficient appropriation.

YEAS.-John Allen, Bailey Bartlett, James A. Bayard, Christopher G. Champlin, John Chapman, James Cochran, Joshua Coit, William Craik, Samuel W. After commenting pretty freely and at large Dana, John Dennis, George Dent, Thomas Evans, on the estimates from the War Office, Mr. G. Abiel Foster, Dwight Foster, Jonathan Freeman, said, he believed there was some radical defect Henry Glenn, Chauncey Goodrich, Roger Griswold, with respect to the connection subsisting beWilliam Barry Grove, Robert Goodloe Harper, Wil-tween the Accountant's department, the Treasliam Hindman, Hezekiah L. Hosmer, James H. Im-ury and War Departments, which prevented a lay, Samuel Lyman, James Machir, William Matthews, Daniel Morgan, Lewis R. Morris, Harrison G. Otis, Josiah Parker, Thomas Pinckney, John Read, John Rutledge, jun., James Schureman, Samuel Sewall, William Shepard, Thomas Sinnickson, Thompson J. Skinner, Nathaniel Smith, Samuel Smith, Peleg Sprague, George Thatcher, Richard Thomas, Mark Thompson, Thomas Tillinghast, John E. Van Allen, and Peleg Wadsworth.

NAYS.-Abraham Baldwin, David Bard, Lemuel Benton, Thomas Blount, Richard Brent, Nathan Bryan, Stephen Bullock, Thomas Claiborne, William Charles Cole Claiborne, Matthew Clay, Thomas T. Davis, John Dawson, Lucas Elmendorph, William Findlay, John Fowler, Albert Gallatin, James Gillespie, Carter B. Harrison, Jonathan N. Havens, Joseph Heister, David Holmes, Walter Jones, Edward Livingston, Matthew Locke, Matthew Lyon, Nathaniel Macon, Blair McClenachan, Joseph McDowell, John Milledge, Anthony New, William Smith, Richard Sprigg, jun., Richard Stanford, Thomas Sumter, Abram Trigg, John Trigg, Philip Van Cortlandt, Joseph B. Varnum, Abraham Venable, John Williams,

and Robert Williams.*

THURSDAY, April 26.

The bill for establishing an Executive Department, to be denominated the Department of the Navy, was read the third time and passed-42 to 27.

Military Appropriations.

On motion, the House again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the bill appropriating for the Military Establishment for the year 1798; when, the question for filling

*Thus, by a close vote, the Naval Department was created; and, as the proceedings show, by a party vote-the Republicans of that day being against a Navy.

proper investigation of accounts. So far as relates to the Treasury Department, the accounts were always very clear, and there was no ground of complaint; but, from the connection which subsists between the War Department and the Accountant's department, there seemed to be a want of responsibility.

In the details which had been laid before the House, Mr. G. said, he found items under the head of contingencies, which he should never have expected to have found there; one was for the pay of an inspector of the troops and garrisons of the United States, at a salary of sixty dollars a month. He could not say such an officer was not necessary; but if he was, he would say he ought to have been provided for by law. The other item was for a much larger cations of the United States, at a salary of three sum, viz: the pay of an engineer of the fortifithousand dollars a year, which was a salary greater than that of the Secretary of War. It appears that this engineer was engaged for three years; but, after he had been some time in the service, two thousand dollars were given him over and above his pay, to relinquish his contract.

After a few observations from Mr. DANA, in favor of the Secretary of War,

Mr. SHEPARD rose, and went over the different items contained in the statement read yesterday, particularly the boatmen, $13,000; the pack-horsemen, $5,000; the wagoners, $7,000; the laborers, $3,000; the armorers, $6,000; the artificers, $14,000; hire of expresses, $6,000; and fuel, $8,000. He could not tell how so many boatmen, pack-horsemen, and wagoners, could be employed (for it was not for boats, pack-horses, and wagons, but for the men alone;) and what so many laborers could be

MAY, 1798.]

DEBATES OF CONGRESS.

Naturalization Law.

[H. OF R.

It was moved by Mr. RUTLEDGE to refer this letter to a select committee.

Mr. MACON wished it to go to a Committee of the whole House.

After some observations, the latter motion was negatived, and the former carried.

FRIDAY, April 27.

employed in he could not imagine. He did not | State, without the consent of Congress; that in see why the soldiers could not do all the labor due time he would ask that consent, and act the Army had to do themselves. When he was accordingly. This letter asks for the determiin the Army, he was at no expense like this. nation of Congress. And how the repairing the arms for three thousand men could cost $6,000 he could not tell; nor could he see how $14,000 could be expended on artificers. If we were to be involved in war, it would not do to expend money in this manner. It was easy to write down thirty, fifty, or one hundred thousand dollars for this or that, but when the taxes came to be laid, the money would not be so easily raised. Mr. S. passed over a number of articles, till he came to fuel. He thought $8,000 a year for fuel, in a country where the trees were ready to fall upon them, was a very exorbitant charge. While he was in the Army, it never cost him sixpence for fuel. The United States had better purchase the land upon which the timber grows, at once; they would be able to get it for a much less sum. If these expenses were to be incurred for five thousand men, what would be the expense of an Army of thirty thousand men? This estimate, he was sure, must be much too large; and it became Congress to be careful how they gave encouragement to such charges as these, for the country would scarcely be able to support the expense of any considerable establishment if more economy was not used.

The question on filling the blank with two hundred thousand dollars, was put, and negatived without a division.

Mr. GALLATIN moved to fill the blank with $150,000. He said that, with respect to the integrity of the Secretary of War, he did not doubt it in the least; as to his talents he had no opportunity of forming a correct judgment of them; he was, however, some judge of accounts, and he saw enough of them to authorize the declaration which he had made as to the improper connection of the different departments. He had spoken of facts only.

The question for filling the blank with $150,000 was put, and carried without a division.

After agreeing to several other items, amongst which was one for the vessels on the Lakes, the committee rose, the House agreed to the amendment, and the bill was ordered to be engrossed for a third reading.

Presents to Ministers.

The SPEAKER said he had received a letter this morning, signed Thomas Pinckney, which he was desired to lay before the House. It was accordingly read. It stated that when he (Mr. Pinckney) had concluded the late treaty with the Spanish Government, the Spanish Minister, the Prince of Peace, informed him the presents usually given in such cases would be prepared for him; and that also when he took leave of the British Court, the like information was given to him by the Minister there. To both of which he replied, that the Constitution of the United States forbade its Ministers from receiving any present from any foreign Prince or

On motion of Mr. W. C. CLAIBORNE, the House went into a Committee of the Whole on the bill directing the payment of a detachment of militia, for services performed in the year 1794, under the command of Major James Orr. The bill was reported without amendment, and ordered to be engrossed for a third reading to-morrow.

WEDNESDAY, May 2.
Naturalization Law.

On motion of Mr. SEWALL, the House went into a Committee of the Whole on the report made yesterday by the Committee for the Protection of Commerce and the Defence of the Country, on the subject of naturalization; and the report having been read, and the first resolution for prolonging the term of residence before aliens shall be admitted as citizens, being under consideration,

Mr. SEWALL said, the term of residence now required from foreigners before they can become citizens, is five years. The committee think this period too short; it is much shorter than the period adopted by the French Government. The committee were of opinion that a residence of at least ten years should be required; but this might be left a blank in the bill, and afterwards filled.

Mr. HARPER believed that it was high time we should recover from the mistake which this country fell into when it first began to form its constitutions, of admitting foreigners to citizenship. This mistake, he believed, had been productive of very great evils to this country, and, unless corrected, he was apprehensive those evils would greatly increase. He believed the time was now come when it would be proper to declare, that nothing but birth should entitle a man to citizenship in this country. He thought this was the proper season for making the declaration. He believed the United States had experience enough to cure them of the folly of believing that the strength and happiness of the country would be promoted by admitting to the rights of citizenship all the congregations of people who resort to these shores from every part of the world. Under these impressions, which, as he supposed they would have the same force upon others as upon himself, he should not detain the committee by dilating upon, he proposed to amend the resolution by adding to it the following words, viz: "that