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DECEMBER, 1796.]

Reporting of the Debates.

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should continue to act wrong? But this cir- | House, will it not destroy the advantages any cumstance materially differs from that. That other can derive from it?. We ought not to was merely an expression of sentiment, which encourage an undertaking of this kind, but let us could at once be determined, but this of senti- encourage any gentleman to come here and take ment, accompanied with deep and solemn re- down the debates. Last year they were taken flection-it is so interwoven with the politics of down very accurately and dispersed throughout the country as to require great circumspection. the Union. I hope gentlemen will not go into it until they are properly prepared. I wish to pay all possible respect to the Chief Magistrate, and cannot prove it better than by a sincere desire for an unanimous vote to the answer, which is only to be obtained by proper deliberation; and thus let him depart from his office with credit, and the enjoyment of our best wishes in his retirement.

The question for postponing the unfinished business to take up this report was then put and negatived-43 to 31.

WEDNESDAY, December 14.

THOMAS HENDERSON, from New Jersey, and THOMAS HARTLEY, from Pennsylvania, appeared and took their seats in the House.

Reporting of the Debates.

Mr. W. SMITH moved for the order of the day on the petitions of Thomas Lloyd and Thomas Carpenter, whereupon the House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, when, having read the report of the committee to whom it was referred,

Mr. MACON wished some gentleman who was in that committee, would be so good as to inform the House what would be the probable expense, and for what reason the House should go into the business. He thought the expense altogether unnecessary, whatever it may be.

If the debates of this House were to be printed, and four or five copies given to each member, they would employ all the mails of the United States. He also adverted to the attempt at the last session to introduce a stenographer into the House, which failed.

Mr. SMITH informed the gentleman that Mr. Lloyd's estimate of the expenses is, that he will supply the House with his reports at the rate of three cents per half sheet. His calculation is, that he can supply the members at the expense of about $1,600 for the session. With respect to the gentleman's reference to last session, this Was materially different from that: that motion was to make the person an officer of this House, and at an expense much greater. He thought this attempt would be of great use to the House. Regular and accurate information of the debates in the House would be a very desirable thing; he therefore hoped the resolution would prove agreeable to the House.

Mr. WILLIAMS said, that the House need not go into unnecessary expense: the members were now furnished, morning and evening, with newspapers, which contained the debates; then why should the House wish for more? If one person in particular has the sale of his debates to this

By passing this resolution you will destroy the use of the privilege to any other than the person favored by this House. Why give one a privilege more than another? He observed, it had been common to give gentlemen the privilege to come into the House and take down the debates, which had been, last year, delivered time enough to give satisfaction to the members.

Mr. THATCHER said, he should wish for information from the committee how many persons there were to publish debates, as he understood there were several, and the members were to supply themselves from whom they pleased. He should likewise wish for information, how many each member was to have to amount to the value of $1,600.

Mr. W. SMITH said, there had been petitions received from only two persons-Thomas Lloyd and Thomas Carpenter. They intended, each of them, to publish the debates. There might be others; he knew not. There was no intention of giving any one a preference-gentlemen could subscribe for that they approved of most. At the calculation of Mr. Lloyd the members would have five copies each for the $1,600.

Mr. W. LYMAN said, the question was, whether the House would incur the expense of $1,600 to supply the members with copies or not? He thought there was no need of the expense. If the House do not think proper to furnish the members, they can supply themselves. A publication of them is going on at present, and many gentlemen had subscribed to it already.

Mr. DEARBORN did not think that $1,600 thus laid out would be expended to the best possible advantage. From the number of persons which we see here daily taking down debates, he thought we might expect to see a good report of the occurrences in the House. There was a book going about for subscriptions, which appeared to be well encouraged; he saw many of the members' names in it. He thought that, by a plan like that, the reports may be as accurately taken as we may have any reason to expect if the House incurs this expense.

Mr. NICHOLAS observed, that members were now served with three newspapers. He thought to vote for this resolution on account of obtaining a more full and complete report than was to be had in the newspapers; thus it would supersede the necessity of taking so many papers. He thought this plan more useful to the members, and generally of more advantage to their constituents, as they could disperse those debates where otherwise they would not be seen.

Mr. THATCHER said, if the object of the motion was to supersede the receiving of newspapers, he certainly should vote against it. He

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Reporting of the Debates.

[DECEMBER, 1796. did not consider the main reason why members | declared he could not undertake it, except the were served with the newspapers was, that House would subscribe for five copies for each they may obtain the debates. No. He thought member. it more important, in their stations, that they should know the occurrences of the day from the various parts of the United States as well as from foreign nations. Though he might favor an undertaking of this kind, yet he would give preference to a newspaper, if they were to have the one without the other.

Mr. HEATH did not wish that the members, being furnished with debates agreeably to the motion, should supersede the receiving of newspapers, yet he should vote for it. Gentlemen had said the debates were taken more correctly last session than before, yet he had heard a whisper which was going from North to South, that our debates are not represented impartially. He wished the House and the people to be furnished with a true report; such a thing would be very useful: however, he did not wish to encourage a monopoly to those two persons. No. He would wish to give an equal chance to all who choose to come and take them. Shall we repress truth? I hope not; but disseminate it as much as possible. Last session, when I was, under the act of God's providence, prevented from attending the House, a member sent for a gentleman from Virginia, who was to act as stenographer, with whom the House and a printer in this city were to combine. Warm debates ensued on the propriety of the measure, and the gentleman returned home after the motion was negatived. I hope gentlemen will not grudge 1,600 dollars towards the support of truth. What we see now in the newspapers is taken from the memory, and not by a stenographer. The people will thank you that you have taken means to investigate truth. If any gentleman can point out a better mode to obtain this object, I hope he will do it that it may be adopted; till then I shall support the resolution. Mr. SHERBURNE did not think, with the gentleman last up, that the interest of the country was concerned; the only thing they were concerned in was the payment of the money. The printing of this work did not depend on the motion of this House. Whether the House adopt it or not, the book will be published. It is a matter of private interest; a speculation in the adventurer, like other publications. The question, he conceived, meant only this: Should the members be supplied with these pamphlets at the expense of the public, or should they put their hands in their own pockets and pay for them individually? He thought the House had no greater reasons to supply the members with this work than other publications; they might as well be furnished with the works of Peter Porcupine, or the Rights of Man, at the public

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Mr. SWANWICK considered the question to be to this effect: whether the debates be under the sanction of the House or not? A gentleman had said, it will be a great service to the public to have a correct statement of the debates. I think the most likely way to obtain it correctly is to let it rest on the footing of private industry. We have a work, entitled The Senator, in circulation. I have no doubt but the publisher will find good account in the undertaking. Why should the House trouble itself to sanction any particular work? Gentlemen would then have enough to do every morning in putting the debates to rights before they were published, as they would be pledged to the accuracy of the reports. I never heard that, in the British House of Commons or Lords, such a motion was ever made, nor have I ever heard of such in any other country; then why should we give our sanction and incur a responsibility for the accuracy of it. He said he should vote against the motion, but would encourage such a work while it rested on the footing of private adventure.

It

Mr. THATCHER said, he differed much from the gentleman last up, as it respected the responsibility of the House on such a publication. He thought it might as well be said, that because there had been a resolution for the Clerk-to furnish the members of this House with three newspapers, the House was responsible for the truth of what those newspapers contained; if it was so, he should erase his name from his supply of them, as he thought, in general, they contained more lies than truth. Two considerations might recommend the resolution. would encourage the undertaking, and also add to the stock of public information: on either of these, he would give it his assent. Soon after he came into the city, a paper was handed him with proposals for a publication of this kind (The Senator). He, with pleasure, subscribed to its support; as to general information, that was given already by newspapers, and though each member was to be supplied with five copies, yet very few would fall into hands where the newspapers did not reach. The work would go forward at any rate. If he thought the work depended on the motion, he should rejoice to give his vote toward its aid. On the question being put, only nineteen gentlemen voted in favor of the resolution; it was therefore negatived.

The committee then rose, and the House took up the resolution.

Mr. THATCHER observed, the question was put while he was inattentive: he wished it to lie over till to-morrow.

Mr. GILES wished to indulge the gentleman in his desire.

Mr. THATCHER then moved for the vote of the House, whether the report of the Committee of the Whole be postponed. Twenty-four

DECEMBER, 1796.]

Address to the President.

[H. OF R.

members only appearing for the postponement, | your wise, firm, and patriotic Administration has been it was negatived. signally conducive to the success of the present form of Government, we cannot forbear to express the deep sensations of regret with which we contemplate your intended retirement from office.

The question was then put, whether the House agreed to the report of the Committee of the Whole and disagreed with the report of the select committee; which appeared in the affirmative. The motion was therefore lost.

Address to the President.

The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the Answer to the PRESIDENT'S Address; when the Answer ported by the select committee was read by the Clerk, and then in paragraphs by the Chairman, which is as follows:

As no other suitable occasion may occur, we cannot suffer the present to pass without attempting to disclose some of the emotions which it cannot fail to awaken.

The gratitude and admiration of your countrymen are still drawn to the recollection of those resplendent virtues and talents which were so eminently re-instrumental to the achievement of the Revolution, and of which that glorious event will ever be the memorial. Your obedience to the voice of duty and your country, when you quitted reluctantly a second time the retreat you had chosen, and first accepted the Presidency, afforded a new proof of the devoted

SIR: The House of Representatives have attended to your communication respecting the state of our country, with all the sensibility that the contempla-ness of your zeal in its service, and an earnest of the tion of the subject and a sense of duty can inspire. We are gratified by the information that measures calculated to ensure a continuance of the friendship of the Indians, and to maintain the tranquillity of the interior frontier, have been adopted; and we indulge the hope that these, by impressing the Indian tribes with more correct conceptions of the justice, as well as power of the United States, will be attended with

saccess.

While we notice, with satisfaction, the steps that you have taken in pursuance of the late treaties with several foreign nations, the liberation of our citizens who were prisoners at Algiers is a subject of peculiar felicitation. We shall cheerfully co-operate in any further measures that shall appear, on consideration, to be requisite.

We have ever concurred with you in the most sincere and uniform disposition to preserve our neutral relations inviolate; and it is, of course, with anxiety and deep regret we hear that any interruption of our harmony with the French Republic has occurred; for we feel with you and with our constituents the cordial and unabated wish to maintain a perfectly friendly understanding with that nation. Your endeavors to fulfil that wish, (and by all honorable means to preserve peace, and to restore that harmony and affection which have heretofore so happily subsisted between the French Republic and the United States,) canLot fail, therefore, to interest our attention." And while we participate in the full reliance you have expressed on the patriotism, self-respect, and fortide of our countrymen, we cherish the pleasing hope that a mutual spirit of justice and moderation on the part of the Republic will ensure the success of your

perseverance.

The various subjects of your communication will, respectively, meet with the attention that is due to their importance.

When we advert to the internal situation of the United States, we deem it equally natural and becomny to compare the tranquil prosperity of the citizens with the period immediately antecedent to the operation of the Government, and to contrast it with the calamities in which the state of war still involves several of the European nations, as the reflections deduced from both tend to justify, as well as to excite, & warmer admiration of our free constitution, and to etalt our minds to a more fervent and grateful sense of piety towards Almighty God for the beneficence of His providence, by which its administration has been hitherto so remarkably distinguished.

And while we entertain a grateful conviction that

patriotism and success which have characterized your Administration. As the grateful confidence of the citizens in the virtues of their Chief Magistrate has essentially contributed to that success, we persuade ourselves that the millions whom we represent participate with us in the anxious solicitude of the present occasion.

Yet we cannot be unmindful that your moderation and magnanimity, twice displayed by retiring from your exalted stations, afford examples no less rare and instructive to mankind than valuable to a Republic.

Although we are sensible that this event, of itself, completes the lustre of a character already conspicuously unrivalled by the coincidence of virtue, talents, success, and public estimation, yet we conceive that we owe it to you, sir, and still more emphatically to ourselves and to our nation (of the language of whose hearts we presume to think ourselves at this moment the faithful interpreters) to express the sentiments. with which it is contemplated.

The spectacle of a whole nation, the freest and most enlightened in the world, offering by its Representatives the tribute of unfeigned approbation to its first citizen, however novel and interesting it may be, derives all its lustre a lustre which accident or enthusiasm could not bestow, and which adulation

would tarnish-from the transcendent merit of which it is the voluntary testimony.

For your

May you long enjoy that liberty which is so dear to you, and to which your name will ever be so dear. May your own virtues and a nation's prayers obtain the happiest sunshine for the decline of your days and the choicest of future blessings. country's sake-for the sake of Republican liberty— it is our earnest wish that your example may be the guide of your successors; and thus, after being the ornament and safeguard of the present age, become the patrimony of our descendants.

Mr. VENABLE observed, on a paragraph wherein it speaks of the "tranquillity of the interior frontier," he did not know what was the meaning of the expression: he moved to insert "Western frontier" in its stead.

Mr. AMES observed that the words of the report are in the PRESIDENT's Speech; however, he thought the amendment a good one. It then passed.

In the fourth paragraph are these words: "Your endeavors to fulfil that wish cannot fail, therefore, to interest our attention." At the word

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66

Address to the President.

[DECEMBER, 1796. would soften the expression, and, acting with that spirit of justice and moderation, accomplish a reconciliation. The amendment was

On the Chairman's reading the last paragraph except one in the report, which reads thus: "The spectacle of a whole nation, the freest and most enlightened in the world," Mr. PARKER moved to strike out the words in italic. Although, said he, I wish to believe that we are the freest people, and the most enlightened people in the world, it is enough that we think ourselves so; it is not becoming in us to make the declaration to the world; and if we are not so, it is still worse for us to suppose ourselves what we are not.

wish," Mr. GILES proposed to insert these words: "and by all honorable means to preserve peace, and restore that harmony and affection which have heretofore so happily sub-adopted. sisted between the French Republic and this country;" and strike out the words that follow "wish" in that paragraph. He said, his reasons for moving this amendment were to avoid its consequences. He really wished the report entirely recommitted, as there were many objectionable parts in it. He had been very seriously impressed with the consequences that would result from a war with the French Republic. When I reflect, said Mr. G., on the calamities of war in general, I shudder at the thought; but, to conceive of the danger of a French war in particular, it cuts me still closer. When I think what many gentlemen in mercantile situations now feel, and the dreadful stop put to commerce, I feel the most sincere desire to cultivate harmony and good understanding. I see redoubled motives to show the world that we are in favor of a preservation of peace and harmony.

Mr. W. SMITH said, he should not object to the amendment; but he thought it only an amplification of a sentiment just before expressed. He did not see any advantage in the sentiment as dilated, nor could he see any injury which could accrue from it. He hoped every gentleman in the House wished as sincerely for the preservation of peace as that gentleman did.

Mr. AMES wished to know of the gentleman | from Virginia, whether he meant to strike out the latter part of this paragraph; if he did, he 'would object to it.

Mr. GILES said, he did not mean to strike out any more of this paragraph.

Mr. AMES wished it not to be struck out. By the amendment to strike out, we show the dependence we place on the power and protection of the French. While we declare ourselves weak by the act, we lose the recourse to our own patriotism, and fly, acknowledging an offence never committed, to the French for peace. He hoped the gentleman would be candid upon this occasion.

Mr. GILES said, he only wished this House to express their most sincere and unequivocal desire in favor of peace, and not merely to leave it to the PRESIDENT. He said, he had spoken upon this occasion as he always had done on this floor. He always had, and he hoped always should state his opinions upon every subject with plainness and candor.

The amendment passed unanimously. Mr. GILES then proposed an amendment to the latter part of the same paragraph which would make it read thus: "We cherish the pleasing hope that a spirit of mutual justice and moderation will ensure the success of your perseverance." The amendment was to insert the word "mutual." He thought we ought to display a spirit of justice and moderation as well as the French. This amendment, he thought,

Mr. HARPER said he had a motion of amendment in his hand which would supersede the necessity of the last made, which, if in order, be would propose: it was to insert words more simple. He thought the more simple, the more agreeable to the public ear. His amendment, be thought, would add to the elegance and conciseness of the expression. He did not disapprove of the Address as it now stood, but he thought it might be amended. This, he said, would add to the dignity, as well as to the simplicity of the expression. He thought it would be improper to give too much scope to feeling: amplitude of expression frequently weakens ar idea.

Mr. GILES said he saw many objectionable parts in the amendments proposed by the gentleman just sat down. He wished to strike out two paragraphs more than Mr. HARPER had proposed; indeed, he wished the whole to be recommitted, that it might be formed more congenial to the wishes of the House in general. and not less agreeable to the person to be addressed.

Mr. SMITH observed, that as the answer had been read by paragraphs nearly to the close, he thought it very much out of order to return to parts so distant.

The Chairman said that no paragraph or which an amendment had been made could be returned to; but where no amendment had been made, it was quite consistent with order to propose any one gentlemen may think proper.

Mr. W. SMITH Opposed striking out any paragraph. It was, he said, the last occasion we should have to address that great man, who had done so much service to his country. The warmth of expression in the answer was only an evidence of the gratitude of this House for his character. When we reflect on the glowing language used at the time when he accepted of the office of PRESIDENT, and at his re-election to that office, why, asked he, ought not the language of this House to be as full of respect and gratitude now as then? particularly when we consider the addresses now flowing in from all parts of the country. I object to the manner of gentlemen's amendments as proposed, to strike out all in a mass. If the sentiments were

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agreeable to the minds of the House, why waste our time to alter mere expressions while the sentiment is preserved? No doubt every gentleman's manner of expression differed, while their general ideas might be the same. He hoped mere form of expression would not cause its recommitment.

Mr. GILES did not object to a respectful and complimentary Address being sent to the PRESIDENT, yet he thought we ought not to carry our expressions out of the bounds of moderation; he hoped we should adhere to truth. He objected to some of the expressions in those paragraphs, for which reason he moved to have the paragraphs struck out, in order to be amended by the committee. He wished to act as respectful to the PRESIDENT as any gentleman, but he observed many parts of the Address which were objectionable. It is unnatural and unbecoming in us to exult in our superior happiness, light, or wisdom. It is not at all necessary that we should exult in our advantages, and thus reflect on the unhappy situation of nations in their troubles; it is insulting to them. If we are thus happy it is well for us; it is necessary that we should enjoy our happiness, but not boast of it to all the world, and insult their unhappy situation.

As to those parts of the Address which speak of the wisdom and firmness of the PRESIDENT, he must object to them. On reflection, he could see a want of wisdom and firmness in the Administration for the last six years. I may be singular in my ideas, said he, but I believe our Administration has been neither wise nor firm. I believe, sir, a want of wisdom and firmness has brought this country into the present alarming situation. If after such a view of the Administration, I was to come into this House and show the contrary by a quiet acquiescence, gentlemen would think me a very inconsistent character. If we take a view of our foreign relations, we shall see no reason to exult in the wisdom or firmness of our Administration. He thought nothing so much as a want of that wisdom and firmness had brought us to the critical situation in which we now stand.

If it had been the will of gentlemen to have been satisfied with placing the PRESIDENT in the highest possible point of respect amongst men, the vote of the House would have been unanimous, but the proposal of such adulation could never expect success. If we take a view into our internal situation, and behold the ruined state of public and private credit, less now than perhaps at any former period however, he never could recollect it so deranged. If we survey this city, what a shameful scene it alone exhibits, owing, as he supposed, to the immense quantity of paper issued. Surely this could afford no ground for admiration of the Administration that caused it.

I must acknowledge, said Mr. GILES, that I am one of those who do not think so much of the PRESIDENT as some others do. When the PRESIDENT retires from his present station, I

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wish him to enjoy all possible happiness. I wish him to retire, and that this was the moment of his retirement. He thought the Government of the United States could go on very well without him; and he thought he would enjoy more happiness in his retirement than he possibly could in his present situation. What calamities would attend the United States, and how short the duration of its Independence, if one man alone can be found to fill that capacity! He thought there were thousands of citizens in the United States able to fill that high office, and he doubted not that many may be found whose talents would enable them to fill it with credit and advantage. Although much had been said, and that by many people, about his intended retirement, yet he must acknowledge he felt no uncomfortable sensations about it; he must express his own feelings, he was perfectly easy in prospect of the event. He wished the PRESIDENT as much happiness as any man. He declared he did not regret his retreat; he wished him quietly at his seat at Mount Vernon; he thought he would enjoy more happiness there than in public life. It will be very extraordinary if gentlemen, whose names in the yeas and nays are found in opposition to certain prominent measures of the Administration, should come forward and approve those measures: this we could not expect. He retained an opinion he had always seen reason to support, and no influence under Heaven should prevent him expressing his established sentiments; and he thought the same opinions would soon meet general concurrence. He hoped gentlemen would compliment the PRESIDENT privately, as individuals; at the same time, he hoped such adulation would never pervade that House.

I must make some observation, said Mr. G., on the last paragraph but one, where we call ourselves "the freest and most enlightened nation in the world: " indeed, the whole of that paragraph is objectionable; I disapprove the whole of it. If I am free, if I am happy, if I am enlightened more than others, I wish not to proclaim it on the house top; if we are free, it is not prudent to declare it; if enlightened, it is not our duty in this House to trumpet it to the world; it is no Legislative concern. If gentlemen will examine the paragraph, [referring to that contained in the parenthesis,] it seems to prove that the gentleman who drew it up was going into the field of adulation; which would tarnish a private character. I do think this kind of affection the PRESIDENT gains nothing from. The many long Addresses we hear of, add nothing to the lustre of his character. In the honor we may attempt to give to others we may hurt ourselves. This may prove a self-destroyer; by relying too much on administration, we may rely too little on our own strength.

Mr. SITGREAVES said, that whatever division of the question gentlemen would propose, was indifferent to him; the words of the answer

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