tee at all. In all events, he thought it would be better to give the house a day for examining the reports already made, and afterwards re-appoint the committee, if it should appear necessary.

Mr. Whitbread said, that after what had already been stated, it was quite impossible the public could expect any good to arise from the committee. He thought a nomination coming from the honourable member who first opposed this list, as an independent country gentleman, infinitely better than one from any chancellor of the exche quer, be he who he might. The honourable member who first opposed this list, had acknowledged his own suggestion for a reduction of the number of the committee; but it was obvious to himself that great partiality might be used in the omission of particular names and the reten tion of others that were highly objectionable; though he would admit, that some names were left out as objectionable as any that were retained. To one name in this list particularly he had objected, upon what he conceived to be good grounds. A question had been put, certainly, upon that name, and his objection was over-ruled; and he certainly should feel it his duty to repeat his objection against it now, and put it again to a question. The public had certainly a right to expect, from the original appoint ment of the finance committee, that much public good would be derived; and, undoubtedly, if the reports they had already made had been acted upon, hundreds of thousands, nay millions, of money might have been saved to the country. Of what effect was it for the committee to deliberate and report, if their recommendations were to remain a dead letter? Was it expected they would live centuries-and centuries they must live to produce any effect, if it was cousidered that in the whole of the last long session, they were enabled to produce but one report. The honourable gentleman who first opposed this list, had shewn the greatest zeal and ability in his endea yours to render the labours of the committee efficient for the purposes of their appointment; no man was a more competent judge than himself of the men most likely to co-operate with him for purposes so desirable. He therefore thought the house had a right to call upon the honourable gentleman for a list of 15 names of such men as he would wish to act with. But a list from the chancel VOL. I.-1809.

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lor of the exchequer was a mere farce, and as such it would be considered by the people.

Mr. A. Wharton said, that after what had fallen from several gentlemen who had spoken on the subject then before the house, he deemed it necessary that he, situated as he had been, and particularly objected to on the appointment of the committee, should request the house to indulge him with their attention till he offered a few observations. He had endeavoured to discharge the trust which the house had done him the honour to confide to him, with every possible degree of assiduity in his attendance, and the most anxious desire to contribute all in his power to effect those important objects which it appeared to him the house had in view, in appointing the committee of which he had been a member, and which was now intended to be revived. It had been said, that there were many delays during the time that the committee was in the exercise of its functions. He allowed this to be the case; but he was at the same time bold to say, that those delays had in a great measure proceeded from a long paper which had been introduced by the honourable gen. tleman who was chairman of the committee, and he believed that every opposition that paper had met with, either from himself, or any other honourable member of the committee who thought proper to object to it, arose from a consciousness on their parts, that the paper he alluded to contained many particulars relative to the prerogative of the crown, and other matters not at all relating to the expenditure of the public money, and which he himself and the gentlemen who thought as he did, from time to time opposed, because they did not think proper to register the honourable chairman's edict, without having examined its various contents, and their several bearings; more especially, as he thought that it contained many things which were never in the contemplation of the house to enquire into, when they appointed the committee. As for his own part, he had been actuated by no other motive than a real regard and zeal for the public interest, and, as such, had pursued the line of conduct which appeared to him most conducive to that end; and he should, therefore, by no means regret his name being left out of the committee, if the house should think pro-, per to revive it.

Mr. Alderman Combe said, he would not wish or attempt to tax any gentleman in particular, but there was certainly a strong disposition in many gentlemen to prolong the discussion upon every occasion, so that it was impossible to make any report fill the very last day of the

session.

- Mr. Sumner said, there had certainly been considerable difference of opinion as to many very important points among the gentlemen who composed the committee; but, he believed, none which were made from any other motive, than that each individual thought it his duty to oppose every matter which he did not think for the public interest, or not within the view of the house in appointing the committee. There was one particular question relative to sinecure places, which was very warmly debated during five days, and on which they came to a resolution on the last day. An honourable member on the floor, who had so loudly complained of protracted discussion, had on that last day spoken no less than eight times; he had counted them, and in the last of the eight speeches he did not say a word that he had not said in the first seven, nor in the first seven any thing which he had not uttered in seventy speeches before that time: it was not therefore surprizing there should be very considerable delay, as every gentleman supposed he had as great a right to deliver his opinion as the honourable member who now so much condemned the committee on the score of protracted discus sion. For his own part, he had opposed such parts of the proceedings as he thought the committee was not intended to interfere with, and had done no more that what he thought his duty required of him.

Mr. D. Browne said, that immediately previous to the Easter recess, the honourable gentleman, the chairman, proposed a treatise in the form of a report, to which he could by no means give his assent. Many other gentlemen of the committee entertained the same opinion of it as he did; viz. that it proposed matters to parliament which it could not stand on, and as such there were repeated discussions on it, which occasioned the delay that had been so much spoken of. He thought that in a com mittee of parliament no man should pay regard to popular feeling, but determine to act in such manner only as his duty pointed out to him to be proper and right. Lord A. Hamilton said, that the chancellor of the

exchequer persisted in this committee, it might in his opinion prove nugatory, as he could not conceive, after the honourable gentleman who was the chairman of the last committee had declined, there was any one who would accept a seat in it.

Mr. Ellis said, a right honourable friend of his under the gallery (Mr. Yorke) had stated, that some alterations had taken place on the last day of the meeting of the committee. He believed there was some trifling amendment made in one part, of a few words only," that it might be expedient to reduce the salary of some, and to abolish others;" but this was done after very ample discussion, and in making it there could be no colourable imputation of surprize on the committee. In the treatise which had been alluded to, there was a dissertation on the increase of the influence of the crown, which, eloquent as it was, contained sentiments of which he could not ap prove, and he therefore gave it his decided and hearty opposition. Objections had, however, been made as to the style and manner in which the several members of the committee had carried on their opposition. For his own part, he could only say that he had acted for the best; and he verily believed every other honourable gentleman who acted with him had done the same; and there was certainly not a stronger proof of a vexatious opposition on their part, than on that of the other side. He conceived; therefore, their opposition would be received by the house in the manner it was meant. If his name was left out, he should not feel any regret, conscious of having acted as his duty required him to do.

Mr. N. Calvert said, he saw no good that could arise out of this revived committee. He thought the better way would be to name a fresh committee, or to take up some of the reports already made on the subject, and proceed upon them.

Mr. Long said, that it was not fair in the honourable gentleman to argue that so many reports had been made, and not acted on. The first report made by this committee relative to the bank had been most carefully at, tended to, and acted on, and the public had already derived considerable advantages from it. In regard to the second, which related to the pay office, he had immediately acquiesced in the sentiments of the committee, and there was not one of the regulations they had recom

mended that he had not attended to, and so far adopted as was in his power, As some of these would require an act of the legislature, it was his intention to bring it for ward; but he had not yet been able to do it. In every other instance the utmost deference had, in that department, been paid to the regulations proposed by the committee. As to what had fallen from an honourable member opposite, respecting a gentleman who had been in the pay. office, but who was not now a member of the house, an inquiry bad immediately been instituted; and he found that the sum, whatever it might have been, had been paid into the office by the gentleman alluded to.

Mr. Creevey said, it appeared somewhat extraordinary that this gentleman, who was a privy-councillor, should, at the time he was paymaster of the forces, in the face of an act of parliament, have helped himself to twelve or 14,000 of the public money, and notwithstanding that after this report he had himself acknowledged he had done so by paying back the money, he should still remain a privy councillor.

Mr. I. H. Browne admitted many disagreeable circumstances had occurred in the committee, but he believed from no ill intention in any one, nor from any desire to protract unnecessarily the time of the committee. Many thought a reform as to the power and influence of the crown was necessary, and others that it was not; and he believed each party was actuated by what they really thought to be right. Many of the committee thought the influence of the crown was the most valuable part of the constitution; of course those would not agree to diminish it; but though he did not exactly agree with either party on this head, and many others, he still thought every one had acted to the best of his judgment.

Lord Milton said, that after the debate which had then taken place, he was apprehensive the appointment of a committee could be productive of no essential service, or that the burdens of the people would, after so many reports, be at all diminished. The last speaker had said, that in the committee many persons thought the influence of the crown was the most valuable part of the constitue tion of the country. He for one did not think that the crown should have no influence, but he was of opinion that those who entertained such sentiments as to the power of the crown, were very unfit to be members of such a committee.