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the Speaker

Sir Ed, Monntague saith, he thinketh we sentence a denying party, other than on oath : must not remove the king's prisoner to another – That the Lords did desire sir Henry Yelverprison, and this Floid being by the Lords of ton, because he was the king's prisoner, and the council committed to the Fleet, we may would not meddle with him till his majesty had most remove him to the Tower.

commanded him to be delivered to them; and It is ordered and adjudged, That Ed. Floid his majesty would have us to consider whether shall be returned this night to the Fleet, there we will not shew the like respect to his majesty, to lie in Bolton's ward, and to-morrow morning Floyd being his prisoner, as standing coinmitto ride to Westminster bare ridged on a horse's ted by his council. He would have us leave beck, with his face to the horse's tail, and the this to him, and he will be careful to punish tail in huis hand, and to stand at Westminster on Floyd according to the greatness of his fault. the pillory, from 9 to 11 of the clock; then to The Master of the Wards delivereth a record ride in the same manner to the Old Exchange, from the king, which his majesty commanded and there to stand two hours more in the pillory; him to acquaint this House withal ; and saith, and on Friday to ride in the same manner to that the king saith, that he will, on view, conCheapside, and there to stand in the pillory firm what Privileges we have, and would bave from 10 of the clock in the morning till 12, and us rest assured of it. twee to ride back thence in the same manner to The record sent by the king goes somewhat the Fleet; to have a paper in his hat at every to this purpose. er of these places, and another paper on the • Rotulum parliamenti 1 H. 4. Que les gallery, the inscription whereof shall be these • Commons ne soyent point parties aux jugewords

, Por false, malicious, and despiteful 'ments ; que le jugement appartient seulement Speeches against the king's daughter and her aux seigneurs, ou seulement au roy mesme, *husband;" to be fined 1,000l. to the king: excepte ou le roy leur donne speciallement That his sentence shall be seen to be executed authorité.' by the sheriffs of London and Middlesex, and Mr. Alford desireth, that, since our ship that the former committee shall draw a warrant hath touched on a rock, we may come off to this purpose, which shall be subscribed by clear: That there are precedents where the

king hath pardoned the party, whom the St Francis Kenniston moveth, that, in re- Houses of parliament have judged ; and that peer that Floid's son hath married a gentle- he wisheth his majesty would do so in this ; man's daughter of worth, that his grandchil- for that it is expected that otherwise our sendre may not feel the weight of the fine. tence should be executed. Land Clifford would have the Warden of the Mr. Noye saith, that there is no doubt, but Fleet to lead the horse, as Floid rideth. that the king may stay execution of judgment & Themes Wentworth desireth, that a com- given in any court : That, in the case of Lamitex may be appointed to collect the reasons timer, the king did pardon the offender after of this cur censure (because there will be many judgment given by the court of parliament. malevolent eyes on the same) that it may re- He would that we should send a Supersedeas bain clear tó posterity.

for the stay of judgment, with this reason in it, It is ordered, and a committee appointed to because it hath pleased the king to spare the tolleet all the proofs, testimonies, causes, and execution of the judgment we gave. He saith, Teasses of this Censure, and to present it to the that we may judge our members, or one that

offends against this House, or a member of it; When this Sentence was thus agreed on, the but in other cases, and of other persons, he said Floid was called into the House, and on thinketh it belongeth to the Lords; and shall bus knee at the bar heard Judgment pronounced be of that opinion, till he seeth some precedent by the Speaker.

to the contrary: That, since we have given The Warden of the Fleet is commanded by judgment, he would haye us appoint a committhe House to put Floid in Bolton's ward, and to 'tee to see, whether we have done it justly or no. tehrer and attend him to the sheriffs of London Sir Henry Poole saith, that he hath heard, si Mildlesex, till the sentence be accordingly that we and the Lords did sit all in one house togeexecuted on him.

ther, and then we did give judgment with them,

He desireth a committee may be appointed to May 2.

seek forth precedents for the same; for, if X. Chancellor of the Exchequer delivereth we were once joined with the Lords, and have Message from his majesty ; who hath taken given judgment with them, then he would have an ad notice of what was done here yester

us seek how we parted with that power. ter, aut saith, That he gives this House thanks Mr. Hackwell would not have a committee atte likeness of a king and of a father ; and appointed to examine what we have done ; for B&father doth desire, that our zeal to him he hath been a diligent searcher for precedents et ost transport us to inconveniencies: - That in this kind, and can find none ; but he would I would have us first query, whether the have us send to the sheriffs presently, by an Ilonty of this House can warrant us or give us order of this House, that we will, that, for er to sentence one who is no member, nor causes best known to ourselves, they should Sender wainst this House, nor any member forbear the execution of that judgment till they * *; secondly query, whether we can or will hear further from us,

H

House.

TOL. VIII.

Sir Ed. Sandys would have present answer any part of it would but lay a stain on the given to the Sheriffs, as Mr. Hackwell spake ; judgment of the House ; and therefore be and that in the afternoon we should acquaint would have us send to the king, and desire, that the Lords with what we have done.

since we have been a dutiful Parliament, he Sir Edw. Cooke wisheth, that his tongue would be pleased to confirm the Sentence we may cleave to the roof of his mouth, that saith, bave given. this House is no court of record; and he that saith this House hath no power of judicature,

May 2, pam. understands not himself: for, though we have It is agreed, by question, that the Speaker, nut such power in all things, yet have we accompanied with some of this House, shall go power of judicature in some things, and there to the king with a Message concerning this bufire it is a court of record. The King's-bench siness of Floid. can meddle with no real actions, nor the Com- Mr. Noye would, that we should give his mon Pleas with any business concerning the majesty full Answer to the Record : That we crown, and yet are they courts of record : should signify to his majesty, what we have That no liberty can be taken from any court, done in this particular; but, for the general of but by act of parliament; and this record sent his majesty's queries, touching the Privileges hither by the king is no act of parliament, and of this House, to acquaint bis majesty, tbat, therefore cannot prejudice our liberty: Multi the Sentence being executed, we will, with all multa, nemo omnia norit :' That he knoweth convenient speed, labour to satisfy his majesty, that this is a court of record, or else all the by precedents, in all the rest of the queries. power and liberty of this House were overthrown. Sir Edward Mountague saith, that by the He would have no supersedeas to be sent to ancient course of Parliament we may not apthe sheriff, because he hath no warrant for to point what number shall go in a Message to sze the execution of the sentence on Floid ; but the king, nor when, nor to wbat place ; for would have a message sent by word of mouth, those things always stand in his majesty's that we will spare the sheriff's attendance till pleasure to appoint. another time, when they strall have further It is ordered, That all those of the Council

, Warning:

who are in our House, shall go to the king, It is ordered accordingly, and a Message by | to signify to his majesty, that we desire, that word of mouth is sent to the sheriffs by our all this House with the Speaker may attend his usher or serjeant, that we discharge their majesty; or, if not all of us, then so many es attendance, till we shall give them further his majesty will appoint, and at the time and warning.

place his majesty shall set down. Sir R bert Phillips moveth that since we have The Master of the Wards would have the given testimony of our duties to the king more Message, which we send by the Speaker to than any precedent doth shew of the like to the king, to be, that our love and zeal were any king, he thinketh it good that we beseech the ground of our judgment; and therefore to his majesty,' on so good an occasion, to give desire his majesty to deal with us as a father us leave to create this precedent, that our judg- herein ; but he would have us first of all anment and sentence may not be scandalized. swer to that Paper or Record that he sent us.

Sir Ed. Montague would not have us to go It is ordered, and a Committee appointed to to the Lords: It is no prejudice for us to stay go presently to draw the Message which the an execution ; and therefore he would have us Speaker shall deliver to the king: (in defence of what we have done, and to main- Mr. Secretary reporteth the king's answer iain our judgment and sentence) to frame a bill to the Message, that the king is graciously to this effect, and to dispatch the same with all pleased, that all the House, accompanied with expedition.

the Speaker, shall come to speak with him toMr. Crewe saith, that we decline from what morrow, touching the Censure given by this we have done, if we strengthen it by a bill. House on Floid, in the afternoon at two o'clock,

Mr. Solicitor would have us go to the king in the hall at Whitehall, with thanks for his care, and to let his majesty be acquainted with the reasons of our judgment,

May 3. and to desire bis majesty to confirm it. He The substance of the Message to be delivered liketh well of having a bill, but thinks it will be by the Speaker, from this House to the king too tedious.

To present to his majesty, first, all humble Mr. Finch saith, that it hath been resolved thanks for his gracious expressing and under in the King's Bench, that a Habeas Corpus standing of our disposition and affection in the cannot be granted to remove a prisoner com- Sentence which was by this House given en mitted by the lords of the council. He would Floid, the malicious reviler of his majesty's have us to beseech his majesty to corroborate children : To shew his majesty, that it was no our power in this business, that our judgment the intent of the House to exceed precedents, or sentence may be put in execution, since the nor to win any further power to ourselves; and same proceeded out of our zeal to his majesty though we will not dispute the juridical powe and his children.

of this House, yet we humbly shew, that the Sir Dudley Digs saith, that the Sentence is precedent (which his majesty sent to us) do given and known abroad, and now to take away not bind us now, because it is no act of Parlis

ment: To desire bumbly, that his majesty will nishment: if our precedents be good, and done be pleased to strengthen and countenance this in a peaceable time, they are lawful; but Sentence, since the ground and cause of it was reason (whereby we say we will shew that we our fervent desire to express our humble and have power to judge the said cause) hath so hearty affections to his majesty and his chil- great a latitude, as he knoweth not how to andren.

swer it ; for it is both his opinion and ours, if Mr. Secretary saith, that the king hath in judges go to reason, and leave point of law, this particular made a question of the power of they wander. He would have us seek forth our House; and for us to stand upon this precedents to shew the same: that his mapower of ours, be holdeth it unfit, unless we jesty even now received a Petition from Floid, were better provided with precedents than he who confesseth the deed, but yet would not thinketh we can bave ; for, if the king should have us condemn a denying man, but by witdeny it , we are for ever barred.

nesses on oath. In the mean time (till we bare The Master of the Words saith, that in this presented to his majesty a Petition of what we business we have to deal with the Lords as well desire) bis majesty will see such punishment as the king ; for this Sentence of ours doth inflicted on him as we shall think enough. concern their lordships and the privileges of that House: That our desire to have our Sen

May 4. tence confirmed, is in a manner to desire to Mr. Secretary delivereth a Message from his make a new precedent: He would have us to majesty. That his majesty, as soon as we take such a caré to satisfy all, as that the were yesterday parted from him, gave order to Lords may not claim that their privileges are his learned council, to see whether Floid had interested in this business, which, they may confessed the fault (for which this House senperheps say, appertained to them.

tenced him) or no; and the Petition which was Mr. Hackwell saith, that the precedent sent delivered yesterday to the king, (and which his to us by his majesty doth not bind us any more majesty yesterday mentioned) was not from than it doth the Lords ; for in it is expressed, Floid himself, but from Floid's son : but Floid that the Lords could not judge alone, which the himself absolutely denieth the words, and theresucceeding practice since sheweth to be other fore his majesty will send it and hiin to the prise ; but we cannot shew any practice that we Lords to-morrow, that the witnesses against him have alone given judgment in the like case to may be there examined on their

oaths, and that this of Floid.

Floid may be punished as severely, or more, Sir Ed. Mountague saith, that the intention than we adjudged him to be: that his majesty of the Committee, who penned this Message, expects our Answer, touching our sending him was rather to rely on the king's favour, than to a petition, and concerning our meddling with stand on a justification of what we have done. Floid, he being his majesty's prisoner.

r Edward Croke saith, that, by the Paper Mr. Solicitor saith, that he and Mr. Attorney sent to us by the king, it is set down, that we did, by the king's command, examine Floid, have no power of judicature ; but every man who denieth absolutely the words for which he kaoweth, that we have judged those of our is here sentenced ; and the said Floid doth at House, and others also for a contempt or also deny another business which Mr. Attoroffence against this House, or any member ney did put him in mind of, and had under

the said Floid's own hand : that the king said

he did the less believe Floid for bis denying May 3, p, m.

that other business; and that his majesty said, The Speaker delivereth our Message to the that, it we can find out a better way for this king, oor whole House being present.

business of Floid than to go to the Lords, te The Speaker's speech vid. fol. 158 ; with shall like well of it, but would not have us conthis also, that we think the Record sent us by demn a denying man without witnesses un his majesty is no other than an Answer to a oath. petition exhibited by the Commons That we Sir Robert Phillips saith, that we censured beseech, that the execution of the Judgment Floid out of our duty and respect to the king given by us on Floid may not to be deterred, and his children, wherein we shewed our love to the discomfort of his majesty's Commons, and our duty ; but we are unfortunate. and the discouragement of that House.”

Mr. Alford saith, he will never consent that The King answereth ; That he ever speak we should send this to the Lords, for that eth from his heart : That he will shew at all would be a scandal to our judgment; and that, times to us a fatherly love and a fatherly care : if we sit down that the Lords may have it out that he would have us to proceed with busi- of our hands, we are unworthy of being parlia

He knoweth, that ment men. He saith, he must say thus much, what we have done proceedeth out of love to though he never speak more. him and his children, but out of too great a Sir Dudley Digs saith, that we have done real comes heresy; and saith, that we have herein our best ; and, though we have

not proceeded with too much celerity and alacrity: done such as may be executed, we have yet that the lawyers who were present are not

to shewn ourselves good subjects; and therefore be excused. "If that Floid be guilty, (as his he would have us go on with what may be najesty believeth) he deserves a greater pu- good for the commonwealth.

hereof.

nesses in a right

course.

Mr. Mallet saith, that he would have this for they can give no oath : that be knoweth business thus rest ; for we have discharged our that the earls marshal have punished and im. consciences.

prisoned without oath in his own case; and Sir George Moore saith, that he conceiveth, shall we, who are the representative body of that what we did in Floid's business was jus- the whole commonwealth, doubt whether a tice and done justly : that the civil law saith, judgment given by us without oath shall be of that in rebus du'iis et obscuris judgment shall less force than that of the earls marshal, who be given on oath ; but, where the matter is do this

only by the king's edict. clear, judgment may be justly given without Sir Eduard Couke saith, that, when a Judg. oath : and these words were clearly proved to ment is ready to be given which concerns the us, by the concurrency of divers witnesses; king, as all criminal matters do, there are two and therefore what we have done is done justly acts of parliament that judgment shall not be He would not have us to go to the Lords, but stayed, though a command come from the saith, we have discharged our consciences; king under the great or privy seal : but it is and, if that which we have done may not be otherwise, when the judgment is to be given executed he would not have us to hinder our for felony or treason ; for therein the king is other businesses by further dispute hereof. an immediate party, and he may desist to have

Sir Thomas Rour saith, he thinketh the it prosecuted, as well as an ordinary party may liberty of our House is hereby shaken : he let fall his own suit. thinketh our judgment was rightly given, and Mr. Solicitor saith, that the Message that therefore would have it stand on record as our was sent this morning from his majesty first claim. He saith, he hath heard, that the Lords drew this business into question ; and he now cannot take notice of a grievance but from us ; leaveth it to the consideration of this House, and, if by this means the king send this busi- wbether we will enter this judgment, the king ness to the Lords, we shall then exclude our demanding precedents of us, whereby he might selves, and the Lords will henceforth deal in see our power to give such a judgment. He such business without us, and so we shall lose feareth, it we do enter this judgment, it will be that privilege.

displeasing to the king. Sir Henry Poole saith, he thinketh nothing Sir Edwurd Sackville saith, that the Journals can be done herein without prejudice, if we are in the Lords' House of Parliament are renot parties to it: he thinketh therefore, that a corded every day in rolls of parchment, and bill is the best course.

therefore he would have ours so done too. The Master of the Wards saith, that we It is ordered, that the Journals of this House have herein appealed to the king, and we can shall be reviewed, and recorded on rolls of go no higher, neither would wish that we parchment. should go any lower : he would have us peti- It was thought fit on this long debate of Ed. tion the king to deal with us as a father herein, Floid's business, that a commitiee should proand to take it into bis own hands, without pre- ceed to draw up the Reasons and ground of ferring it to the Lords.

our Judgment given against Floid, and that Sir Sumuel Sandes saith, that a kingdom or the Judgment itself should be set down to be family being divided cannot stand. It is a entered in due form ; which being accordingly maxim in this House that a member of this done by a committee, it was accordingly, by House may not speak against what is here order on the question, entered into the Journal done : that he thinketh, that which was here of this House. done against Floid was out of our love to his majesty and his children, and with justice ;

May 5. and, if this sentence be erroneously given, let A Message from the Lords signifying, Thef the party adjudged appeal. He saith, that we they have had, during this parliament, much are a court of record, and every court of contentment in the correspondency between us record hath power to give an oath ; and want and them; and that they, having heard of the of use taketh not away the jurisdiction of a censure given by this House against Floid, do court. He would have our judgment entered, desire a conference with this À quse, for the and, if our love to his majesty and his chil- accommodating of that business in such sort dren hath herein corrupted us with too much as may be wi hout prejudice to the Privileges zeal, let him be the judge of it, for whose sake of either House ; the nomber to be the whole we were so corrupted.. "He saith, that the ce- House, the time three o'clock in tbe after, remony of taking an oath on a book is de puisne noon, place the painted chamber , and power temps ; and this was a court of Record before to be given to the committees of both Houses that ceremony was used in the giving of an to conter and debate freely, that we may the path. He desireth again, that our judgment better understand each other's reasons. may be entered, and then, if the party ad- Sir Ed. Cecil saith, that it is a rule amongst judged appeal, let him take bis course ; we great personages and princes, that, if they have discharged our consciences.

would give a respectful answer, they send i Mr. Smun saith, that, if the lady Elizabeth not but by their own ambassador or servant. had been present, and complained to the earls Answer is given to the Message from the marshal, they would have punished Floid Lords, That this House receiveth their lordwithout ministering an oath to the witnesses, ships' message with a great deal of comfort and contentment, and that we will (sitting the wanted nothing but the form of laying of their House) send their lordships further answer to hand on the book, to make such oath to be the same, by some members of our own without question, which ceremony is not now House

used in all places, when oath is given; and Sir Samuel Sandes would not have diversity anciently men swore by laying their hands of opinion thought to proceed from diversity under the thigh,, as, did Abrahain's, servant, of effection ; for perhaps be must differ in. opi- others by holuing up the finger. nion from others in this House more worthy. Sir Ed. Sandys saith, that the end of this He saitb, if we send to the Lords that we will Conference with the Lords is for the accommo. first hear them and then answer, we then deny dating of this business: there is a precedent in, a Conference ; and he would not have us to Edward, the third's time, that the Lords did raake that sour, which we perceive is sweet in censure without an oath : the question will be then, that is, their conceit of us. He would chiefly, whether this business of Floid be have us to reason with them from the grounds within our cognizance, or no. This business of the reason of the law : it is human to err; came to us accidentally by the examination of and we see the highest Courts of the king- the business against the warden of the Fleet ; dom hare their Writs of Error; but to per and when we heard of these foul speeches, severe in that error is belluine, or unworthy a though we wanted custom to give an oath, yet

reason (which is not flying and disputable kr. Alford saith, we have given a judgment reason, wluch the king calls opinion) which is judicially, and caused it to be entered : be the ground of the law, told us, that we mighte would not bave us to refuse a conference on it ; censure him. He would have us to declare bat

, if they break out into matter which may the truth, hereof to the Lords, tend further, that then we may desire of their Mr. Hackwell saith, that this House is a lordships further time to answer it.

court of record ; the king himself did 1. of his It is ordered, that the Master of the Wards reign acknowledge, that this House is a court shall cany our Answer to the Message from and judge of record in sir Francis Goodwin's the Lords, and that the effect of it shall be an case, 6 Hen. 8, cap. 16, it is there, that the expression of our joy and contentment in the clerk of this House his book is a record. We good correspondency tbat bath been between have power to give an oath ; for it appears in both Hauses during all the time of this par- the Journals of this House, that one coming hament ; and that, for our parts, we will en- into this House, who was no member hereof, deavour the continuance of the same as far as had here in the House the oath of supremacy in us lieth ; and that we will meet for the con- given him, and also of secrecy. If a man ference, as is desired.

deny that here at the bar, which after he con.. Sir George Moore saith, that there are three fesseth on oath to the Lords, we may bere things in this business to be considered of and censure him and send him to the Tower : that debated : 1. That we are a court of record ; the judgment given by the Lords and king, and that, he thinketb, will not be opposed : 2. 15 Ed. 2, against the two Spencers, was reHow we cook cognizance of this business: 3. versed in Ed. 3, time, because it was suns nul The reason which we had to judge and sen- accusement ; and in the reversing of the judg« tence Floid without oath ; and it is no more

ment the Commons had a voice, than we do to sheriffs for making of false Mr. Alford moveth that all the parts of this retures, and other abuses against this House. business may be distributed, as the points of law

Sir Samuel Suvides saith, that the question and precedent, to some of the lawyers of this whereon we are to confer with the Lords, is a House ; the points of reason to be the part of particular, and not a general question of all our sir Edwin Sandys, sir Sanuel Sandes and sir jurisdiction ; and therefore he would not have Dudley Digs; and would have us hold to w at the conference debate of any thing that that point of their message, which was, that tends not to this particular question. And one nothing should

be meddled with that is prejudiquestion will be, whether this court having the cal to the privileges of this House. effect of a court of record, be not a court of Sir Dudley Diys would have us stand witla record ; and the other point questionable will the Lords on the accommodating of this business, be, that we have sentenced without oath ; but and would have us shew precedents, that this is it was never seen that a judgment was over- a court of record, and hath power of judica

ture; and that then the reasons should be Dr. Googe saith, that we may proceed by shewn why we did proceed herein. cate; for this Court bath jurisdiction, and the The Master of the Wurds saith, that, since grug of an oath is a substantial part incident we bave caused the judgment to be entered, he wa jarisdiction : that to have to give an oath would not have us stand on it, or say, that we is incident to all jurisdiction, for there is no intended not to make ita precedent; tor he would place of judicature but bath this power:

that have our word and actions agree. all judgment that may be reversed hath one of Sir Samuel Sundes would have them to assign these detects, pullity or injustice : nay, we

us our error, and that we should not go to shew protest and swear on their salvations, that what their exceptions, and then we should give 90they witnessed and said was true ; and there swer to them.

thrown for want of oath.

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