May 5, p. m. At a Conference with the Lords. The lord archbishop of Canterbury saith, that their lordships' purpose is not to give any pardon or defence to Floid or his offence, but only to confer of the manner of Floid's punishment; for their lordships say not but that he hath deserved as great a punishment as we have censured him, and perhaps more. That he is happy who shall bring any thing that may conduce to the seeking forth of the truth of this offence: that their lordships seek not, nor purpose to question any power hereby. Sir Samuel Sandes saith that our House doth with all respect and thankfulness acknowledge their lordships' favour, in the good correspondency that hath been during this parliament between the two Houses. That we are free from any intent to make any irruption into their lordships court, but, having such an occasion offered, we thought we might without offence or prejudice, extend our jurisdiction; which yet we have not done farther than, we conceive, reason did lead us. That this complaint was first brought to us, as a fault against the Warden of the Fleet, (who stands charged with many foul crimes before us) for that he (having heard of these scandalous speeches spoken by Floid his prisoner) concealed the same. That when we understood hereof, out of our zeal to his majesty and his children, we presently sent for this Floid who spake those vile and malicious words, and on searching of him we found in his pocket a scandalous libel against a noble member of this House; (sir Edw. Coke,) but we thought it not seemly to join that offence with so great a one against so noble a lady and her husband, and so proceeded to an unanimous judgment against him. That we hope, as we are careful not to touch the hem or skirts of their lordships privileges, so their lordships will not press too hard on ours, we having herein done nothing, but what some lawyers of our House (he hopeth) will shew, that by law we may and are warranted to do. The Lord Treasurer saith, that the Lords do conceive, that all those offences, which concern not the lower House or some member of it, do properly belong to be judged by the upper House, as by long practice and many precedents is shewn and manifest. Sir Edward Coke saith, that we hope their lordships will deal with us, as Abraham did with Lot, who, having chose the left hand, gave him the right, and bad him go whither he list. He saith, that the House of Commons hath, in many things, a free liberty of judicature: he desireth their lordships to remember, that they were gentlemen before they were lords; and therefore we hope, their lordships will make a favourable construction, and not press too hard on us, if we have (as we believe, and hope we have not) gone beyond precedents. He desireth their lordships will be pleased to consider, that our House is a court of record; for that court, which hath power to imprison and set fines, is a court of record; and that our House hath power to fine and imprison, he de sireth their lordships to remember that in 10 Ed. 3. an archbishop for causing a member of our House to be served with a subpoena was grievously fined; that by the statute of 5 Hen 4. all menial and other servants of a member of our House are free from all arrest. It is ma nifest and known to all, that whosoever hath a court of record may incidentally examine on oath. In 3 Jac. the warden of the Fleet was examined at the bar in the House of Com mons on oath. That these words were spoken against the members of our House; for filia est pars patris,' and the king is ever intended to be resident in our House. The Lord Treasurer saith, that the Lords expected, that we would have shewn precedents that this business was censurable by our House: That their lordships do acknowledge that what concerneth the House of Commons, any member, or the servant of any member of that House, doth lie within the compass of our power to judge of. Sir Ed. Sandys saith, that we did not intend to extend our power beyond the privileges of our House:-That in this particular (whereof we hope there will here never be the like again) we thought we might refer it to the reason of our other judgments, for we may judge of things done against this House, or a member thereof; and we take this to be against the king, who is as resident with us as any member: And we thought delay would have extenuated our judg ment and his offence; and, though we have not used to judge in such a case, yet deficiente consuetudine referendum ad rationem generalem.' The Lord Treasurer saith, that the Lords do free us from any intent in us hereby to invade their lordships' privileges: That they will be ready to do us right, so we take a right way without prejudice to their privileges; but, now we have shewed our zeal, they will shew theirs. May 8. Conference with the Lords, touching the Judgment given on Floid. The Archbishop of Canterbury saith, that the Lords were the first that did suffer in this business, and the Lords were the first that did send in it: That the Lords do strive to exceed us in nobleness, and seek not superiority but verity: That they seek not to abridge our liberties, nor would have us make irruption on their privileges: That their lordships ever had such causes judged by them, and do pray, that we will leave their lordships where we found them. The Master of the Wards saith, that we do so much embrace the good correspondency and amity that is between the Houses, that we came rather for an accommodation than a disputation. The Archbishop of Canterbury saith, that their lordships will kindly embrace an accommodation which is worthily propounded, and like ourselves: That their lordships desire dated. The Master of the Wards saith, that, as their lordships first sent to us touching the accommodating of this business, so we desire their lordships would first propound, how they would lave it accommodated. (since we crave an accommodation in general) | the Committee thought fit, that we should not that we would propound the manner, how we advise nor contradict their lordships, if they will would that this difference should be accommo- give further sentence on Floid, but only desire their lordships to take into their consideration the heinousness of the offence, and to do it with expedition: and, for the second part, to offer unto their lordships, that our precedent shall not be drawn in consequence against the privileges of their or our House, and that there shall be here (if their lordships desire it) a protestation in this House, that this precedent shall be no prejudice to the privileges of either House, and that then we will desire there may be the like protestation in their House. The Archbishop of Canterbury saith, that insomuch as their lordships have had an irruption on their liberties by a judgment given by us, they would that we should meet them half way at the least for the accommodating of it. The Master of the Wards saith, that our House hath had to-day some speeches of a subcommittee; and, if it please their lordships, we will go now again to the House to confer of a sub-committee, touching the accommodating of this business. Hereon it was agreed of all sides, that we should acquaint our House with this; and, in the mean time, their lordships went into their House to consider of a sub-committee, and the power and number of the sub-committee. At our House, the Speaker sitting, after the Conference with the Lords. Mr. Glanvile saith, that he would have this business so accommodated, as by this precedent we prejudice not ourselves; and that this should not hereafter bind, nor be alleged against them or us: and he wisheth the business be so accommodated, as the delinquent's punishment may not be extenuated. A Message is sent to their lordships, to desire that there may be a sub-committee of both Houses appointed to accommodate this business of Floid; wherein we leave the nomination both of the time and number to their lordships. Dr. Gorge saith, that it is a maxim, that Par in parem non habet Imperium,' so as the Lords may not question us, nor are we to account to them, for any thing which themselves cannot do. The sentencing of Floid lieth not in their power without us; and therefore by right we are not to account to their lordships for the judgment we have given herein. A Committee of sixteen of the Upper House is appointed by the Lords, and twice as many by us, for the accommodating of this business; and they are to meet on Friday next. May 11. Sir Edward Cooke's Report concerning the conference with the Lords, touching the business of Floid. That the Committee agreed on what shall be delivered to the Lords for the accommodating of that business, and hath divided it into two parts: first, the inducement; secondly, the nature and matter of this accommodation. For the first, that we never meant to meddle with their lordships power, that we gave sentence because of the notoriousness of the fact, for the zeal of our duties, for the hohour of the king and his children, and our House; and that the sentence being thus given, May 12. Sir Edward Cooke's Report of the last Conference with the Committee of the Lords, concerning the business of Edw. Floid. He saith, that he divided his speech into two parts: first, the inducement; wherein he laid down our confidence and resolution to maintain the good correspondency with the Lords, by means whereof this parliament hath reduced great abuses to a good order, by punishing of great offenders:-That what we did was far from any intent in us to gain a precedent, or to invade their lordships liberties or privileges: That the judgment was given out of our zeal to his majesty. The second part was, for the accommodation, that we relied on their lordships kind messages, and that we desired, that this judgment might be so accommodated, as it might be without prejudice to either of the Houses: That we leave it to their lordships; if they would proceed to a judgment and censure of Floid, that we desire they would then do it according to Floid's demerits, and that the execution might be done with speed; and that we would make and enter a protestation that this precedent should not be prejudicial to either House: That hereupon the Lords did (after a private consideration) present to the sub-committee a Protestation in hæc verba: "A Protestation to be entered in the House of the Lords, by the consent of the House of Commons, that the proceedings lately past in that House, on the Judgment of Edward Floid, be not at any time hereafter drawn or used as a precedent to the prejudice of either House; but that the privileges of both Houses do re main and abide as before." may Sir Nath. Rich moveth, that the Committee have power to conclude on the Protestation which the Lords offer; but would have added, that neither the proceedings by us, nor any other proceedings which are or shall be in this business, may be to the prejudice of the privileges of either House hereafter. The Master of the Wards complaineth, that be, seeking at the Conference with the Lords to repair or explain a mistaking of sir Edward Cooke in the delivery of the message at the Conference at the Committee, was told by sir Edward Cooke, that there was the spirit of contradiction amongst our Committee, pointing at him; and adding withal, that he, who should seek to sow sedition in the House, was not worthy of his head. used to do) because we had before given Judg ment on the said Floid: and, whereas many thought the Judgment and Sentence we gave on him was too great, their lordships have laid on him a heavier, viz. "That he shall be degraded from his gentility, ride on Monday next from the Fleet to Cheapside on horseback without a saddle, with his face to the horse's tail, and the tail in his hand, and there to stand two hours in the pillory, and then to be there brand Sir Edward Cooke protesteth, that he spake generally, and meant not the Master of the Wards; but said, that the like contradictions, at the last convention, were the overthrow of the parliament: That the words which he spake at the time were as the clothes in Birchin Lane; if the Master of the Wards did apply the same to himself, it was more than he meant to him; for, when he spake those words, he tooked in the forehead with the letter K :-That on not measure of the Master of the Wards' body. On sir Edward Cooke's protestation in the House, that he meant not the Master of the Wards, in any of those words which the Master of the Wards did except against, the Master of the Wards, in the House, openly said, he was well satisfied with sir Edward Cooke's protestation. Sir Edward Sackville would have us send to the Lords, to know, if their lordships in their House have confirmed the protestation they offered at the Committee; and, if they have, that then he would have us consent to it. It is ordered by question, That a Message shall be sent to the Lords on Monday morning, to know, whether they do allow of the Protestation offered at the Conference by the Committee or no. May 18. A Message from the Lords, That, since we referred the Judgment of Floid to their lordships, they, understanding that we have a trunk of writings of the said Floid's, wherein may be something to aggravate his fault, do desire that 'we will send the same to the clerk of their House to be opened, that the writings therein may be looked into. Friday following he shall ride from the afore- I saw this day, after our House was risen, Floid stand in the pillory; the words or inscription of his offence being altered of that they were appointed by our House; and are now "For ignominious and despiteful words, and "malicious and scornful behaviour against the "Count Palatine, and the king's only daughter. "and their children." This was pinned to his breast and back, and he stood two hours in the pillory, and did ride according to the sentence of the upper House. The following Heads of the Debates which took place in the House of Commons respect'ing Floyde are taken from the printed Journals. 1 Commons Journals, 601. May 1, p. m. the Bible: and now is questioned for speakin against the noble king and queen of Bohem Therefore, sithence he hath spoken again God and man, moveth, that neither for God man's sake he may have mercy. By reason the messengers from the Lords said (contrary to the agreement between us and Sir H. Manwaring. That hath heard th their lordships, on the Protestation entered in lord Warden say, that, when he was president both Houses), That we had referred the Judg-Wales, Floyde questioned for speaking again ment of Floid to their lordships, we returned Answer, that we would send Answer to their lordships' message by some members of this House. Whilst we were in debate what Answer to send to their lordships message, another Message came from the Lords, by the same messengers they first sent, that their lordships taking notice of the first part of the Message they last sent us, do now (to take away all scruple) send to acquaint us, that the said first part of the said message was mistaken; and the effect of their lordship's desire is, to have the said Floid's trunk, that they may look into the writings in it. Answer to this sceond Message is given, That the trunk shall be sent up to the Lords (as their lordships desire) to be disposed of as their lordships shall please. And accordingly the trunk and key were both sent to their lordships by the Serjeant of our House. The Lords of the upper House of Parliament did, this 26th day of May 1621, censure Ed. Floid, whom before we of the lower House had censured; but their lordships called not us to demand Judgment (as in other censures, on businesses whereof we have informed them, they Floyde, at the bar, charged by Mr. Speak with speaking the scandalous words befor mentioned, against the prince Palatine, or h lady, and with his denying thereof: persiste in his denial thereof. Penington, confronting Floyde, repeateth former speech; that knoweth not, just what time these words spoken, knoweth such man as Fryer, except Dr. Fryer. Mr. Hackwyll. That, in the examination Lettice Harrys, he observeth, that she hear that she denieth, she ever acquainted t warden of the Fleet; but that she acquain one Williams with it because she Sir Ro Phillippes. Came with a resolut to speak freely in this parliament. Wisheth better occasion to shew his affection to t noble lady, the king's daughter. 1st. T offence: 2dly, against whom committed: S the punishment. The offence : scornful CO tumelious, and spiteful against the king and queen of Bohemia. The persons, against whom the hopeful issue of our great master. Of the king saith, because he endeavoured to be happy, God made him unhappy. For her equal in virtue and honour to any. Floyde a knare from his original: a popish knave, the most dangerous of all other. For his punishment: To have him carrried from Westminster gate, with his face to an horse tail, a paper upon him, in great letters; "A popish wretch, for dishonouring the king's children :" to the Tower; and there to lie in Little Ease. Sir Tho. Row. Because a prisoner committed from the Lords of the Council, to go to the Lords, to let them know, we desire to have him whipped through London. Sa D. Digges. As sir Tho. Row. Sir Francis Kinnaston. That Floyde put into the commission of the peace. Sir Geo. Moore. No punishment too great for this offence. Precedents have a beginning. To whip him back to the Fleet. Mr. Whitson voucheth a precedent of the in Spain. Mr. Raynescrofte. 1,000l. fine, to be employed in the wars of the Palatinate; and to spare his whipping. Mr. Neale. To carry him in a disgraceful manner to the Tower; and he there to remain, till further directed by the Lords. which may be discovered by his papers. To suspend our sentence. Sir Edw. Cecill. To make this punishment greater, than hath been, in like cases, hath been for subjects scandals. To bore him through the tongue; and a B. in his forehead. Sir Geo. Goring. Now called up. To have him set upon an ass: 12 stages, as 12 beads: at every one to swallow a bead; and 12 jerks to make him Mr. Salisbury. Sorry, hath any Welsh blood in him yet but half, for half English. Agreeth with the most severe punishment. Mr. Price. A paper: pillory: riding upon an horse backward: and 2007. fine. Sir Ro. Bevell. Agreeth with the greatest punishment, but blood; and would not have the beads, &c. put upon him, lest should be thought to be for his religion. To defer the fine, for search of the papers, for his greater punishment. Sir Jo. Jephson. To punish it presently. To whip him to the Tower; viz. as far again, as those for the Spanish ambassador: and a good fine. Sir Rich. Gravenor. Not to defer his punishment. Whipping to the Tower: Papers: Beads with him: Out of the commission of the peace: Unbarristered. Mr. Finch. Desireth all these punishments; Sir Francis Seymour. To go from Westmin-yet no corporal punishment, because no proof ster at a cart's tail, with his doublet off, to the upon oath against him. Pillory. Tower, the beads about his neck, and as many lashes by the way, as beads. Mr. Salter. To punish first here, then may be punished by the Lords. To send him to the Tower. Whipping: beads: Tower: Little Ease. Then further punishment by the Lords. Sir Edw. Gyles. Sorry, so unworthy a wretch should bear the name of an Englishman; yet might evade, and say, he were a Welshman. Pillory here, with a paper of his read, containing his vile words: whipped; his beads and crucifixes, and especially his friar's girdle, about him: if these can defend him from good whipping, well: so many more at the court gate; and so at the Temple, and Cheapside. Then to return him to the Fleet: for cannot put him into a worse prison. Sir Tho. Weyneman. To carry him to the Fleet, and whip him. And hopeth, upon search of his papers, to find matters to hang him. Sir Jo. Strangewayes. To make a precedent in this case, if none before. Whipping: boring his tongue, at Cheapside: and then to return him to the Fleet. : Sir Edw. Wardor. To make a precedent, if none before. To return him now to the dungeon in the Fleet. Whipping as many lashes, as the prince and princess old: boring in the tongue. Sir Guy Pulmes. No blood. Tower, &c. Mr. Angell. A gag in his mouth, to keep him from crying, and procuring pity. Mr. Towerson. To have him stand upon the pillory at the exchange, that the strange merSir Ralph Hopton. To suspend our judg-chants may know it, and publish it abroad. ment till his papers examined: for may aggra. vate his offence. Sir J. Perrott. To the Tower at first: then to send to the Lords about it. Sir Tho. Hobby. To leave out none of these punishments. The doubt, because committed by the Lords. To suspend our judgment, till his papers examined. Mr. Mallory. Not to defer it, nor to put it off to the Lords. Consenteth to the punishment, spoken of by sir Ro. Philippes: and pillory at Powle's cross. Sir Francis Darcy addeth, boring through his tongue. Sir J. Horsey. To have his tongue cut out, or sht at least. Doubteth, he an intelligencer; YOL. VIII. Sir Jo. Walter. To avoid cruelty in his punishment. To vilify him, as he hath done these noble princes. To ride backward on an horse: A fine that may go to the Palsgrave; because asked, whither the lad would go: pillory: his beads, &c. to be hanged about him, to shew, from what root this grew. That he laughed at the loss of Prague; therefore to make him cry by whipping. Mr. Mallett. Tower, presently. Whipping &c. to be respited, till the papers perused. Mr. Glandylle secondeth sir Jo. Walter's motion. Not to be disputed, but we may do that, which we are about to do. To do this, and leave further punishment to the Lords. Mr. Alford concurreth with sir Jo. Walter I in all, but whipping. To fine him, instead of to be," For false, malicious and despiteful whipping. "speeches, against the king's daughter, and H. Anderson concurreth with sir Ro." her husband": to stand upon pillory, in like Phillippes. Not satisfied, to take him out of the manner, in Cheapside, on Friday, from ten till prison, whereunto the lords of the council have twelve, and ride thither in like manner, and ride committed him. Paper: branded: ride back-back as before: fined at 1,000!. The former wards: beads about him. Committee to survey and examine the papers in the trunk. Sir Edw. Sands. Much difficulty in this cause. To be well advised. That our sentence will be censured in a great part of the Christian world. The root from ill affection to religion, and so to our state. That only two eminent persons, viz. Ed. 6. and Queen Jane, escaped the virulent tongues of opposites in religion. This lady the third. Praised by all her enemies. Would join with the Lords, but for the great business, we have, and shall bring them. Not to meddle with his religion, but his offence in tongue. That will make him be canonized. Commendeth sir Jo. Walter's censure: differeth only in one point, viz. whipping; which the punishment of a slave; where he a gentleman, except first degraded. This degrading not in our power, but in the earls marshal. To punish him, wherein he hath offended. Goodman, and Goodwife, words of contempt, not of slander. To punish him with as much contempt as may be riding backward: paper: pillory in divers eminent places: imprisonment in a dungeon for some moderate time: fine. Mr. Pymme. To whip him, except within some reasonable time he pay 1000/. fine. Sir Fr. Goodwyn. No whipping; but fine instead of that. Tower, because that our prison. Master of the Wards. To give punishment for the fault committed. If make a precedent, let it be without exception.-Not to give such a sentence, as shall hurt the king's children. Though his religion the ground of his evil affection, yet not questioned here for it. Sorry, we so uncertain in the power of this House. More puzzled this parliament than ever before. Told, in the beginning of this parliament, we an absolute court: That, in some cases, we to judge alone; in others, with the Lords; in others, the Lords alone. Sir Edw. Mountagew. That not in our power to remove him, because the king's prisoner in the Fleet. Mr. Mallory. As we have power to send for him hither, we have power to send him to the Tower. Sir Wm. Strowde, contra. Sir Rich. Worseley. The Fleet not a fit prison. Upon question, Floyde to be returned prisoner to the Fleet this night, and to lie in Bolton's ward there: to be brought hither again tomorrow morning, and to be set on the pillory here at Westminster, two hours, from nine till eleven: to ride from Westminster to the Exchange, and there to stand upon the pillory two hours: to ride backward upon an horse without a saddle, his face backward to the horse tail, and the tail in his hand, and papers on his head: the inscription, on the papers and pillory Sir Tho. Wentworth moveth for a select Committee, to consider of the accusations, testimonies, and parliculars of our judgment. This to be done by the same Committee: Sir Edw. Sands, sir Tho. Wentworth, sir George Moore, and Mr. Sherfield added. This to be done with all speed, and to be reduced into writing. The Sentence to be executed by the sheriff's of London and Middlesex; and a warrant, for that purpose, to issue under Mr. Speaker's hand; and that warrant to be drawn by the former Committee. Floyde called in to the bar, and kneeling, Mr. Speaker pronounced his judgment. The warden of the Fleet commanded to lodge Floyde this night in Bolton's ward, and to bring Floyde hither to Westminster palace, by eight of the clock, and to deliver him from time to time. May 2, p. m. Mr. Price. All this day in a labyrinth: Divers threads put into our hands, to wind us out of it. No way, but by the king; either by his grace, or power. Sir Tho. Wentworth. The king's eldest daughter respected, in some things, by act of parliament, more than any other daughter. Not to go to the Lords, nor petition the king Not fit, if our judgment coram non judice. To proceed by a law. Though not so speedy, yet more safe and firm, especially for his fine. Sir Edw. Cecill. This parliament expected to be the happiest, that ever may be so, could get a precedent. By Mr. Speaker, and some select committee, to attend him, to pe tion to be respectful of his subjects Grieveth him, that a popish knave should, i the face of this House, a cross, and think now, that this had preserved him from ou judgment. Sir Tho. Jermyn. Findeth no justification by any, of our judgment. The king sendet us only a query: Condemneth us not. To Mr. Speaker go to the king, to tell him, w not yet prepared to answer his queries: There fore to give us longer time for search of pr cedents. Serjeant Davys. To end this business th day, if possible: To present it to his majest with expedition. That we have power of j dicature in this case, if in any. We happ that have the noblest king born, that is Europe: The queen of Bohemia therefore, daughter, of the same nobility. This a co tempt offered to the king's person, who o head; and therefore we, the body, are to sensible, and take notice. To make this la no gentlewoman! Goodwife! The king pr |