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bring to my recollection that I ever have made any other application to her upon any one of tho e subjects inentioned, but if any of the honourable gentlemen here can give me the smallest clue to guide my recollection, I shall be extremely happy to give every information in my power.
Being convinced in the first instance by the Duke of York's having, as Mrs. Clarke intorined you, scouted the idea of your being permitted to raise a regiment, for which you had made an offer og 1000l. and having from thence inferred that she had no influence; how came you to make any second application to her? If I am correct, I before stated, that I was satistied, from his Royal Highness's answer to her, if such was his answer, that she did not possess any influence over him in the point of military promotion ; that his Royal Highness might have perinitted her to talk upon military subjects, but that as to military promotions she had no influence.
Do you know that at the time you made application through Mrs. Clarke for leave to raise a regiment, any officer received that permission which was refused to you? If my memory serves me righi, there were three or four young regiments raised at that time in Ireland, but not in this country.
Were they raised upon the same terms with regard to the payment of money, as the tender made by you for raising your men? They were not; my proposal was, as far as I can recollect, for I had forgotten that, till I saw it in the evidence, my proposal was to raise thein from the militia ; the regiments in Ireland were raised with a bounty.
From whom did you receive the information first, that Mrs. Clarke had intluence with the Commander in Chief relative to inilitary promotions, which induced you to have the first letter written, or to connive at the writing of the first letter to Mrs. Clarke, in order to obtain that influence in your favour? My information upon that bead was merely report, but the letter alluded to was suggested to me.
Had you ever any other than a written communication with Mrs, Clarke upon the subject of your own promotion ? To the best of my opinion, I had not; the reason why I think so is, that at that time I was stationed at a distance from London.
Is the Committee to understand you to have said, that if you had applied to the War-office for information, after its having been noti. fed that you were a brigadier-general, and your being put back to the rank which you call brigadier-colonel, you would not have obtained that information? I do not think that I should, nor should I have made the application, conceiving that such application would have been improper.
Why then do you suppose you could obtain information respecting military arrangements from Mirs. Clarke, which you could not obtain from the War-office? Because I see a considerable degree of distinca tion between making application for information to a lady of the des scription that she then was, and making it to those official persons who would not have been justitied in giving me the information that I desired.
What reason had you for thinking that Mrs. Clarke had information of what was passing at the War-ottice; which information would have been refused to military officers regularly applying? Because I was of opinion that by her intluence over the Commander in Chief, which she described herself to me to possess, she could obtain any information of that description,
How is the Committee to reconcile that declaration with that which you have made, that you did not then believe her to have any influence. over the Conimander in Chief? If I am correct, I before sid, that the influence she possessed over liis Royal Highness the Commander in ; Chief did not go to the distribution of military proinutions.
Did it then go to the obtaining information of regulations in the War-office, which regulations were withheld trom public notice? As she always gave me to understand she could procure almost any pro. motion whatever, I conceived that the only way to obtain that which I wished for was by application to ber.
Did you in point of fact obtain the information you sought for through her means I did not; the information that I received was, as far as I can recollect, that there had been a mistake in removing us from the situation of brigadier-generals to brigadier-colonels, and that that mistake was shortly to be rectified.
Was that or not the inforınation you did wish to obtain? It was not the information that I wished to obtain, it I am perfectly correct, because I do not think she stated the reason why we were removed froin the situation of brigadier-generals to brigadier-colonels. I hope the honourable Committee will excuse any mistake I may make in this, , for there has a period of several years elapsed since this correspondence, and I may fall into an error: it is my endeavour to give every information in my power,
Look at the letter in the Clerk's hand, and read it. [A letter, duted the 11th of November 1804, ws sheron to General Clavi ring. ) You there express your thanks to Mrs. Clarke for her attempts to serve you, though unsuccessful. I am of opinion that must have alluded to ber not being able to obtain me permission to raise a regiment.
You speak further on the coming to town; when you and Mrs. Clarke met, did any conversation arise as to military promotions, or military matters? It is above tive years since I wrote this letter, and I am sure it is impossible for any person whatever to recollect any con. versation of so trivial a nature after so long a period.
You have positively stated in your former examination, that you , never had any conversation ; you have referred the explanation which you wished to give to the Committee to-night, to the difference between communication and conversation, and thai it was conversation you understood the question to refer to ; do you now adhere to the answer of the former night, that you never had any conversation with Mrs. Clarke on the subject of military proinotions, or military matters? I do not recollect having had any conversation with her upon the subject; it is possible that something tending to it in the course of conversation might have been alluded to, but at this distance of time I cannot charge my memory with it.
Having stated, that in the original application to Mrs. Clarke you proffereri her the sum of 10001. to obtain that which you wished at the time; did you ever, on any other occasion, make her an offer of money, or any valuable consideration of any kind, for the purpose of obtaining her supposed influence with the Coinmander in Chet? I am positive I never did.
Did you ever, without making any previous offer, make her any pecuniary recumpense, or give her any valuable consideration for any service she might have done you, or endeavoured to do you, with the Commander in Chief? I never gave her any thing in my life, unless:
it might be accidentally ; being in the room when the milliner brought her a shawl, I told the milliner she might call upon me for the pay, ment for it.
I understood you to say, that you considered Mrs. Clarke to have very little, if any, influence with the Commander in Chief, on military promotions? Yes.
Do you found your opinion on the refusal to allow you to raise a regiment, or have you any other reason for that opinion?' ! ground my opinion upon my own case, and also conversation with various military officers upon the subject; for though various reports have gone forth, to the prejudice of his Royal Highness, upon that subject, I never heard of any one case that could be brought hoine, nor do I believe there is any such case.
you ever apply to Mrs. Clarke, by letter or otherwise, to get you put upon the stati? I was placed upon the staff upon the 24th of Sep. tember 1803, as the Gazette of that date will show; and his Royal Highness's first acquaintance with Mrs. Clarke did not commence till four months afterwards, in the month of January 1804.
Did you not write a letter to the Attorney General, desiring that you might be examined at the bar of this Committee upon this subject? [ did, and I should be extremely happy to state the reason why I wrote that letter.
Acknowledging as you have done, that you have written letters to Mrs. Clarke upon the subject of military promotions, and also have had conversations with her upon that subjeci, state with what view you wrote that letter to the Attorney General? About a day or two after this inquiry cominenced, I perceived in the public papers that my name had heen introduced, and, apprehensive that his Royal Highness might suppose that I iad been engaged in any improper military transactions, I went down to the Horse-Guards, to explain the transaction to Lieutenant-Colonel Gordon : Colonel Gordon did not see me, but referred me to Mr. Lowten. I called upon Mr. Lowten, and he put various questions to me; and, after my replying to those questions, he told me it would be necessary for me to go down to the House to be examined. I replied to him, that was what I should wish particularly to avoid ; but that if he stated absolutely it was necessary, I certainly would attend, but that it was the farthest from my wishi. When I did come down here, it was deemed right I should write a letter to the Attorney General, and accurdingly, such letter was written, and I stated in it, that I appeared here at Mr. Lowten's desire: after reading that letter to Mr. Lowten, and two other gentlemen who were present, it was observed by one of thein that Mr. Lowten's name should not appear, in consequence of his being agent for his Royal Highness, consequently Mr. Lowten's nanie was expunged; and therefore it appeared I was a voluntary witness upon this occasion, whereas I was not so, but came forward at Mr. Lowten's desire.
Why, after the evidence you have given here before the Committee, did you write to the Attorney-General, with a view of shewing you knew nothing at all about these transactions ?-The honourable memher who puis that question is under a nikake, I never wrote such a letter .
With what view dici you write the letter to the Attorney-General; and why, after having written that letter to the Attorney-General, ottering to do away the evidence of Mrs. Clarke, do you come to give the evidence which you have given at the bar of this Committee! I am very sorry to say I do not comprehend the question.
With what view did you write that letter to the Attorney-General ? Mr. Lowten stated to me, that he conceived my evidence would be of considerable consequence in this House; and therefore, as it was absolutely necessary that I should be introduced to this House, a letter was written to the Attorney-General, as the best mode of bringing me forward.
Did you inform Mr. Lowten of all your transactions with Mrs. Clarke, at the time Mr. Lowten gave you that advice? I did not, of all of them.
It stands upon the minutes of the evidence, that “Brigadier-General “ Clavering having stated to a member of the House that he was de. * sirous of being exarnirer, Brigadier-General Clavering was called " in, and examined by the Committee as follows:-Have you sent a " letter to nje (namely, the Attorney-General) this evening! I did
so. Desiring that you might be examined?' I did so." I under. stand that you presented yourself as a voluntary witness ; you state Bow, that you were unwilling to be examined, but were desired by Mr. Lowten to be examined ; do you mean to state that you were a roluntary or an involuntary witness at this bar?--I have no objection to state, that it was the last wish of my heart to be examined at this bar. Mr. Louten stated, it was extremely desirable that I should be esainined, and therefore I acceded; and I apprehended the distinc. tion between a voluntary and an involuntary witness to consist in tliis, that I was not summoned to attend at the bar.
Did Mr. Lowten represent to you what his reason was for wish, ing you to put yourself forward, instead of a summons being issued to you in the usual way :-Ile did not state any thing upon liat subject.
For what purpase did you go down to the Horse-Guards, and after. wards go to Mr. Lowten !--I was anxious to remove from the mind of Lieutenant-Colonel Gordon any idea that I had been concerned in any traffic in commissions, as appeared in the newspapers. Colonel Gor, don refused to see ine, and referred me to Mr, Lowten.
Were you desirous to do away that impression from the mind of Colonel Gordon at the time you recollected that you had offered that 1,0001. for a comunission ?-1 was desirous of removing from hiş mind any unfavourable impression that might have occurred from reading the reports of what had passed in this Committee.
Were you desirous of doing so, by stating the true state of the facts to Colonel Gordon, or concealing it?-It was my intention to have stated the faci which was alluded to on the preceding evening, in which my na ne was brought forward, and that was relating to Lieutenant Sumner.
Wa, it for the purpose of contradicting that fact, that you went to Colonel Gordon !It was for the purpose of explaining the mode ia which my name came to be introduced by Mrs. Clarke, in the transaction in which Lieutenant Sumner's naine was brought forward.
Did you mention to Afr. Lowten this transaction, of the offer of the 1,0002. to Mrs. Clarke? --I believe I did not; but I should have had po scruple in doing it, for I had mentioned it to a thousand persons before,
Are you sure you did not mention it to Mr. Lowten! I think I did not.
Were you appointed a brigadier-general in a district, after having been inspecting field officer of a district ?-1 was continued in the district to which I was originally appointed.
Had you the rank of brigadier-general, after having been colonel or lieutenant-colonel inspecting held officer? I was proinoted in common with all the otticers of the same rank with myself at the same time.
Did you apply to Mrs. Clarke upon the subject of that promotion, directly or indirectly, by letter or in conversation ? am quite certain that I did not apply to her upon it; and I am the more certain, because I recollect that the first information I received of any of the brigadier-generals being to be appointed, was about a month before it becamie public, and that was from her.
Was that information communicated to you privately as a secret ? It was communicated by letter, but no secrecy enjoined, to the best of my opinion.
[The witness was directed to withdraw. Mr. Charles W. Tynne rose to discharge a painful duty; but painful as it may be, it was a duty, and he should not sbrink from the discharge of it. The Committee must be aware of the nature of the testimony given by the witness who had just withdrawn, and as he had been warned that he was to give his evidence at his own peril, and had exposed himself to the animadversion of the House, he should move that General Clavaring has prevaricated in bis evidence.
General Mathero contended, that no prevarication whatever had taken place; and that the witness at the bar was incapable of prevaricating,
The Chancellor of the Exchequer thought that an allowance was to be made for a person not accustomed to be examined at such a tribunal. But at all events it was not sufficient for any member to move that a witness had prevaricated, withont shewing the grounds of the motion.
Mr. C. W. Wynne then explained the various parts of the General's évidence, which he charged as contradictory and prevaricating.
Mr. N. Caltert declared, that he had not heard the evidence distinctly, and if he was to be called upon for a vote, he should move that the short-liand writer should read the whole of the evidence.
Mr. Yorke observed, that General Clavering had come to the bar to explain his former evidence, and that it was not therefore a trifting variation that was to be considered prevarication. He thought that it would be better to put