When was it that Mrs. Clarke expressed that fear to you respecting your telling Major Shaw of Mr. Donovan? The first day I ever saw her.

This was before you mentioned Colonel Shaw to Mrs. Clarke? Yes.

Did you ever mention Colonel Shaw to Mrs. Clarke till after the interview you had with Colonel Shaw? I saw Colonel Shaw but once, and never saw Mrs. Clarke but twice since.

Did you ever mention Colonel Shaw to Mrs. Clarke till after the interview you had with Colonel Shaw? I had mentioned Colonel Shaw to Mrs. Clarke a long time before I saw Colonel Shaw, nearly three months.

In what way had you mentioned Colonel Shaw to Mrs. Clarke ? As a gentleman who wanted a lieutenant-colonelcy from his majority; he was a major, and he wanted to get a lieutenant-colonelcy.

How did you know that Colonel Shaw wanted to get a lieutenantcolonelcy? After I had seen Mrs. Clarke, I mentioned to Mr. Donoyan, a gentleman had known for many years, that I had got some very great interest, and that if he knew any person that wanted any thing in the army line, I thought I could get it; I refused to tell him where it was, or from whom.

Was it Mr. Donovan who mentioned Colonel Shaw to you? Yes. What did Mr. Donovan state to you of Colonel Shaw, when he mentioned him to you? He said that he had very great recommendations, and had, I think it was, General Burrard's interest.

What further did Mr. Donovan say of Colonel Shaw to you? He said he would give 700l. I think it was 7001. for a lieutenantcolonelcy.

Did Mr. Donovan tell you any thing further respecting Colonel Shaw? Not at that time.

Where did this conversation pass you have now alluded to? I think it was in Charles-street.

In consequence of this, did you apply to Mrs. Clarke to get Major Shaw a lieutenant-colonelcy? Yes.

Were you to have any part of that sum of money which you have mentioned, provided the lieutenant-colonelcy was obtained? No. What was done in consequence of your application to Mrs. Clarke ? Nothing at all.

Did the business break off, or did it die away? On the night of the day on which I sent the note to Mrs. Clarke, I received a note from her, inclosing me Major Shaw's security for the sum, saying she was sorry she could do nothing for Major Shaw-previous to this, Mrs. Clarke sent for me to describe the person of Major Shaw, his connections, and his interest, without which, she said, she could not mention the affair to his Royal Highness;-I could not then describe his person; I said his interest was General Burrard's, and he had lately met with some very great family misfortune; I believe his brother drowned, or something of that kind. Mrs. Clarke answered, that will do, I shall tell his Royal Highness that I do it in compliance with the request of a very old friend, and in compassion for his present calamity; let him get two months leave of absence, through some general officer, during which period I shall try and work upon the feelings of his Royal Highness, to accomplish my purpose, without his suspecting the cause.

It was after this you sought an interview with Colonel Shaw? Yes. For what purpose did you seek that interview? It was Colonel Shaw sought it.

Did you then relate to Colonel Shaw what had passed between you and Mrs. Clarke? I do not think I did.

Was the matter broken off by any particular circumstance, or did it die away? I know no circumstance, except a note which Mrs. Clarke

sent me.

Do you recollect your ever speaking of Colonel Shaw as having broken his word with you? He certainly broke his word with regard to telling Mrs. Clarke Mr. Donovan knew the circumstance.

Did you ever complain of his having broken his word, in not having made you a present? Never, because he did.

What present did Colonel Shaw make you? When I returned Colonel Shaw his papers and the security, he sent his compliments, and was sorry for the trouble he had given me, and inclosed me 107.

Do you know any thing of a second application of Colonel Shaw's to Mrs. Clarke? I certainly do not.

Do you recollect the date of the transaction which you have been speaking of? The first time I ever saw Mrs. Clarke was in December, 1804.

Had you ever more than one conversation with Mr. Donovan upon this subject? I cannot recollect, I have been in the habit of visiting Mr. Donovan, and seeing him frequently, and what conversation has passed I am sure I cannot say.

State the date of the transaction you are speaking of. It was, I think, from December 1804, to April, 1805, as near as I can guess.

Do you of your own knowledge know any thing further of Colonel Shaw and Mr. Donovan, in that transaction? I do not.

Were you in the habit of corresponding with Colonel Shaw? [ think I must have written letters to him frequently; it was a long period, and he was very uneasy, he was kept in great suspense.

State whether you have any of Colonel Shaw's letters. I returned the whole of Colonel Shaw's letters.

To whom? To the best of my knowledge, through Mr. Donovan. At what period did you return those letters? I believe it was two or three days after he had seen Mrs. Clarke.

How came you to return those letters to Mr. Donovan? He said that Major Shaw wished to have done entirely with the business, as he was convinced Mrs. Clarke could do nothing.

Then you do not know any thing further respecting the transaction which took place afterwards between Mrs. Clarke and Colonel Shaw? I do not.

Do you know personally or by repute, a Miss Taylor, who appeared as an evidence at the bar of this House? I have seen Miss Taylor, she caine to my house one day with her brother, Captain Taylor.

What do you know of the character or repute of Miss Taylor? It is very hard to speak from hearsay; of my own knowledge I know nothing.

From what passed in the transaction between yourself and Mrs. Clarke, do you believe that there could have been any subsequent negotiation between Mrs. Clarke and Colonel Shaw? I do not think Mrs. Clarke ever heard of Major Shaw afterwards.

Did you ever tell any person, and if so, when, that Miss Taylor was a person of bad repute? I certainly did say that I did not return Miss Taylor's visit, as I had heard something unpleasant.

What was the unpleasant circumstance that you had heard of Miss Taylor, that prevented your returning that visit? It was hearsay; and I should suppose I am not obliged to tell what I have heard, I know nothing myself.

[The witness was directed to withdraw.

Mr. Barham deprecated such an examination. It was absurd to ask a person who visited Mrs. Clarke why she did not visit Miss Taylor. By questions such as those the investigation of the subject entrusted to the Committee was very little advanced.

Mr. Fuller, in a vehement tone, desired the witness might be called back and insisted upon asking her one question. It should be, whether she would choose to put a female child of her's under the care of Miss Taylor? "Let the Committee put that question to the witness,' said the honourable member "if they dare." (a laugh). Mr. Bragge Bathurst was sure the House would not allow such a question to be put.

[The witness was again called in. From your knowledge of Miss Taylor, would you believe her evidence?

[The witness was directed to withdraw,

The Chancellor of the Exchequer was of opinion that the question was justifiable, and that the character of Miss Taylor might with perfect propriety be spoken of by the witness as to general reputation. In courts of justice it was allowable to ask a witness on oath, whether he would believe the testimony of any other particular individual.

Mr. Whitbread opposed the question. On a review of the evidence, he confessed that he would rather put a question to Miss Taylor respecting Mrs. Hovenden's cha racter, than put a question to Mrs. Hovenden respecting Miss Taylor's character. For his part he was not aware that any thing had appeared to impeach the character of Miss Taylor. She had given her description of a person which, if untrue, might be disproved, but it had not yet been disproved. The only thing that seemed reprehensible in her conduct was her visiting Mrs. Clarke, &c.

The Attorney General spoke to order. The subject under discussion was not Miss Taylor's character, but

whether or not the question proposed by an honourable gentleman should be put.

Mr. Fuller." Get another witness, get another wit ness.'

Sir S. Romilly declared, that when such a question as that proposed by the honourable General was put in a court of justice, it was preceded by an inquiry how long the witness had known the party, and what were the means which the witness possessed of appreciating the character of the party.

The Attorney General observed, that the question put to Mrs. Hovenden had nothing to do with the length of time that lady had known Miss Taylor, but related merely to what she knew of that lady's general character.

Sir S. Romilly replied, that the Committee ought to inquire into the opportunities which the witness had possessed of duly estimating Miss Taylor's character. He could assure the House that he never knew such a question put in a court of justice, without a previous inquiry into the means of knowledge which the witness possessed. He was convinced the Committee would see the importance of this point.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer was of opinion, that the question proposed by the honourable General was legalized by the assertion of the witness, that she knew Miss Taylor to a certain degree. To inquire particularly into the means by which she obtained her knowledge was not antecedently required in point of law.

Mr. C. Wynne did not think the question was likely to produce the least information.

[The witness was again called in, and the question proposed.]

I declare I do not see how I can answer such a question as that, it is merely matter of opinion, I cannot answer it.

Where do you live? In Villiers-street, No. 29.

How long have you lived there? I believe not quite three months. Where have you generally lived? Where I lived before that was in South-molton-street.

How long have you lived in South-molton-street? Upon my word I cannot recollect.

Cannot you recollect how long you have lived in a street? I went to it at two different periods.

How long have you generally lived in any one street? I had a house in Panton-square.

How long? Two years and a half.

When did you leave it? In 1805, I believe in June.

Did you ever tell any person, and if so, when a person of bad repute? I certainly did say Taylor's visit, as I had heard something un What was the unpleasant circumstan Taylor, that prevented your retur and I should suppose I am not ob nothing myself."

Mr. Barham dr

absurd to ask

did not visit

the investi

was ver M mi

them.

SEXAMINATION.

267

proposed by an honourable

witness, Bet another wit

state their names.

, or want of respect to the House, but I cannot

Mr. Brand objected to the question. It seemed to him unnecessary to state the names of persons against whom no charge existed, as was evident from the witness having herself said that they had not yet been mentioned. He thought it extremely unfair to put such a question to a person of whose veracity the Committee could not but have increasing doubt. Her loose statements might be of serious detriment to many respectable persons, and if the honourable Baronet persisted in his question he should feel it his duty to take the sense of the Committee upon it.

Sir J. Graham declared that he had no other view in the question, but that which related to the general course of the proceeding,

Lord Folkstone expressed his astonishment at the objection that had been made. The Committee was instituted for the express purpose of inquiring into abuses, and many great abuses, had already been discovered. Here however was a question which promised to lead to the developement of further and more flagrant abuses, and now the honourable gentleman got up to object to its being put. Whoever referred to the instructions that the Committee had received from the House, must be con vinced that the question was a good one, and ought to be proposed.

Mr. Brand observed, that the witness had distinctly stated that no procceding had taken place; as therefore