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to, and Mr. Drummond said he had no wish | as his words, if possible, that we wish you to to press it.]
tell us. Alexander Gollan cross-examined by Mr. Maconochie.—Did he say in express Mr. Jeffrey.
words that our monarch had been driven from You mentioned, Mr. Gollan, that you went
his throne ?-I can only say that was my imthere chiefly to hear his opinion upon a parti- pression. I cannot remember the exact words. cular point ?-Yes.
Was that the meaning of the words he used ? Had you heard any thing particular about
- I did not say so. It is the meaning that I
attached to them, his political opinions ?-Yes. There was a
Had you any doubt that that was his meangeneral talk about him. Had you been desired by any one to go to ing at the time ?-I had no doubt at the
. hear his political opinions ?-No. I went of my own free will.
Solicitor-General.—Will you proceed to state, Are you sure of that?-Yes.
whether he spoke of any thing else in the He spoke quickly P-Yes.
course of your hearing him; and state it to the Was there any thing else particular in bis jury ?-I cannot recollect just now; my me- . mode of speaking ?-He spoke somewhat with mory does not serve me. There was such a a Highland accent. It was not easy to under- confusion and bustle, and he spoke so fast, stand him.
that it was only from a few words I could You were there once or twice?-I was there gather what he said. three times, but only heard him twice.
Mr. Maconochie.-Do you remember whether Which time did you hear him deliver a
he said any thing about the king of France ?lecture from Daniel ? --Both times.
Yes. And what you said of his remarks apply to
State what your recollection is !--He said some remarks by him at the one, and to some
that the British had forced a king upon France made at the other meeting ?- To his remarks against the wishes of the people. That is the on both occasions.
Some of them were then made twice over? only thing I can recollect at present, but I -Yes.
did not pay much attention to it.
Did he say any thing about Louis XVI?James Waddell sworn.--Examined by
Not that I remember at present.
Do you recollect any expressions that he Where do you live?-In the Gallowgate.
used in drawing the comparison between the What is your profession ?--I am a surgeon.
prince regent and Belshazzar?--I do not
remember the expressions. Did you ever go to hear the prisoner at the bar preach?-I did.
State them as near as you can recollect them.
-He said, that the night before the taking Do you remember when that was ?-I am not perfectly certain; but I think last Feb- his counsellors were rioting and drinking, and
and destruction of Babylon, Belshazzar and ruary. What was your reason for going there ?-I the same kind; and he added, that like causes
that the prince regent held his meetings of went from motives of curiosity.
always produced like effects. Did any thing particular strike you in the
Do you remember his saying any thing of course of Mr. Douglas's discourse?- It was
the suspension of the Habeas Corpus act ?-- He altogether novel.
mentioned it. What was new in it ?—To discuss politics What did he say?-_That it is a deprivation when preaching the gospel.
of the liberties of the people. Was he very violent ?--Occasionally.
Did he say any thing of the people who got Tell what he said.- I cannot do that. Such parts as you remember struck you !- what he said. I do not remember the ex
it passed ?-He did ; but I do not remember The impression left on my mind is, that he
pressions. drew a parallel between Nebuchadnezzar and
Do you recember the substance ?-I could our king, and Belshazzar and the prince re
not say. He said it was an oppressive and gent.
unjust measure. Do you rememberany thing more?- Nothing
Did he say any thing about their meeting strikes me at present except a few of the words with punishment for getting it passed ?-I do he used. Tell them if you please.
Do you remember his applying any other Court.--We want to know what he said in epithet to the prince regent?-I do not at drawing the parallel ?--One thing he said, that present. strikes me just now is, that Nebuchadnezzar Do you remember his saying any thing of for his sins was driven from his throne; and Parliament, or the House of Commons ?-I
the impression made on my mind is, that he could not give a precise answer. said our king was deprived of his reason for Do you remember the substance ? I do his sins and crimes.
pot. Court. It is not so much your impression, Solicitor General.-- When you say you do
not remember, do you mean that you do put questions generally, and cannot put in a not remember the expressions, or that you do question, in this way, the very words which not remember the substance ?-I could not are libelled. say with certainty that I do remember the Lord Justice Clerk.-In reference to the substance.
examination of witnesses, I wish that each Do you remember his saying any thing examination should be followed out by only about a gibbet?---No.
one counsel. The examination of the same Did he say any thing about the prince re- witness by several counsel tends to introduce gent being infatuated ?
an obscurity into the evidence that may easily Mr. Jeffrey.-I object to that question. be avoided. And I apprehend, that the rule Mr. Drummond.--Under your lord ship's
of law is clear, that in examining a witness, correction, I submit that the question put by his recollection of any part of the speech or
a general question should first be put as to Mr. Solicitor-General is perfectly proper, that we are entitled to put it, otherwise the discourse : and when he answers that he does examination is reduced at once to the single tent to ask him whether he beard such an
not remember particularly, it is then compequestion, what did the panel say ?
observation or expression employed. Mr. Jeffrey.-I object to the question being Lord Gillies. I concur with what your put; and I really must take this opportunity lordship. has said, and would particularly press of stating, that this examination has been the propriety of only one counsel for each conducted in a way, from first to last, that I party examining a witness. General questions never heard of before in this Court. They should first be put to a witness; and it is have all along been asking the witness, not wrong to start at once from the middle of an what words he heard used, but what was his examination as to one point to any other impression, and his imagination of what Mr. point; to go, for instance, all at once from the Douglas said.
Habeas Corpus act to the question, whether How would such a proceeding be taken on the panel said the prince regent was in. a trial for murder, or any other felony! In fatuated. answer to a question, the witness says he has a faint remembrance; and he is then asked
Mr. Maconachie.—Do you remember Mr. what his impression is; to which he replies, prince regent being infatuated ?–I cannot
Douglas using any expression relative to the that so long an interval has elapsed, he remembers liitle about it, but has a vague
say with certainty. impression on the subject. I object to the mentioned the suspension of the Habeas
You said you remember Mr. Douglas having whole strain of such an examination; and I hope your lordships will express your disap- said any punishment awaited the persons who
Corpus act. Do you remember whether he probation of the attempt to bring circumstances had carried that act through?-I cannot say to the mind of the witness in this manner. with certainty, either. The impression is not When the question at issue is, whether an individual used a particular expression, is it strong enough upon my mind to enable me to tolerable that that very expression should be remember so long; put in a question to the witness, with all its
I ask you generally, do you remember whether
he said any thing all about the House of concomitants? They should have asked, in a
Commons ?-He did. general way, whether the witness heard the
Do you remember what he said ?-I do not panel use any expressions derogatory to the
with certainty. prince regent. To attempt, in the way now done, to state in a question to the witness the
Solicitor-General.—When you say you do very words charged against the panel, cannot not remember with certainty, do you mean be allowed. They might as well read over to that you do not remember the particular the witness the whole discourse at once, and words, or the substance of what the papel then ask him if he remembers this sentence, said ?-I only remember the impression made or this paragraph, or this discourse. They are on my mind. It is, that the members of the not entitled to proceed in this way. The House of Commons are unjust and corrupt. general question which may be put to the
Have you the least doubt of that impression witness is, What did you hear the panel say? having been made on your mind at the time? or, Do you remember hearing him say any -Not the least. thing relating to such and such a matter? But Lord Justice Clerk. It is not as to your in an examination in chief they are not en- impression that we ask you; but, did you titled to take up their precognition, and pro- hear him use words which plainly, distinctly ceed in the manner now attempled.
and unequivocally meant that he was charging The witnesses come with a knowledge that the House of Commons, or any part of the there is a precognition ; and they feel them- legislature, with being unjust or corrupt? It selves in some degree held down to a statement is not the general scope of the discourse, or which they know to be in the possession of your impression, we ask; but whether you the Crown counsel. I say that you are not heard words to that effect ?—What he said entitled to put your own words into the had that effect or impression upon me. I do mouth of a witness; but that you must first not remember the words.
Sedition. A. D. 1817. (650 Are we to understand that you do not Do you remember any parts of the sermon or remember his using the words unjust or cor- lecture ? Did anything particular strike your rupt?-I do not remember these words; but memory – I recollect he said that seats in the from what he said, I have mentioned my House of Commons were sold like bullocks in opinion.
a market. Solicitor-General.—Have you then any doubt of Commons, or the members of it?--He said
Did he say anything more about the House from what he said that such was his meaning? they were greatly subject to corruption, and - None.
words to that effect. Jury. You have mentioned your impression. Do you remember any more of the words? You do not remember what were the words ? I remember he represented Great Britain at -I do not remember.
present as the modern Babylon. Was it on a Sunday evening you heard the How did he make that out ?-He endea. sermon ?-Yes, some time betwixt six and voured to prove it the best way he could. He nine o'clock.
hoped the happy period was come of the downYou do not recollect the exact day of the fall of the modern Babylon. month ?-No.
Do you remember anything more ?-He reLord Justice Clerk.- Dia he lecture or commended to his hearers to pray very preach 1-He lectured.
earnestly, that God would put it into the hearts Do you remember upon what part of Scrip- of his majesty the king, and of the prince regent, ture? -On a passage in Daniel.
to turn their attention to the cries of the people, What chapter?- I do not remember. And he said, that a good prayer would have You are not sure upon what chapter he more effect than ten thousand armed men. lectured.—Was this when you heard about
Well, sir, do you remember anything more? Nebuchadnezzar and Belshazzar ?— It was my I remember him speaking much of the anlord.
cient John Knox. He quoted him repeatedly Let me ask you this question for the satis- from the pulpit. faction of the jury and the Court. You heard
For what did he quote him ?-As an exemhim likewise pray ?-Yes.
plary character of his time, and he recommended Was there any resumption in the prayer of him to the notice of his hearers. any part of the lecture ?-Occasionally he did Did he say anything of the king, and the so resume.
prince regent ?- Yes, I thought he spoke Have you any recollection of any particular rather disrespectfully of them. prayer he made upon that occasion ?-I have What did he say of them ?-Of the prince no recollection of the precise words.
regent, in particular, he said that he was a Did you go often to hear him ?-I went four man he did not think behaved well somehow. times at least.
Did he say what was done that was wrong? Was this the first or last, or any of the Did he find any particular fault?–He seemed intermediate times of which you have spoken? to do so; but I have forgot the particular -He was always upon the same subject.
words Mr. Douglas used, from the lapse of Are we to understand there was the same time. parallel drawn upon these several occasions ? Do you remember the substance of what he -There was.
said ?--He drew a simile between the Regent Are we to understand this was on four and Nebuchadnezzar. different Sundays ?-Yes. I am not certain How did he compare them? In what did of the precise period, but it was all about the he say they resembled one another ?-He drew same time.
a very strong simile. Nebuchadnezzar was
driven from the presence and society of men Alexander Taylor sworn.—Examined by
to feed with the bullocks of the field. He drew Mr. Drummond.
a disrespectful simile between them. Are you a town-officer at Glasgow ?-I am. Did he say the prince regent was driven Do you know that man ?-I do.
from the society of men ?-No, he did not. Did you go to hear him preach last winter ? What did he say?-I forget the precise - Repeatedly.
words. There was a declaration in which i What month ?-I think February.
noticed parts of his discourse, but it was given 1 How often did you go?-I was sent ex- away. pressly twice.
Did he say anything more about the king ?Both times in February :- I think they were: Yes, he did. it is a considerable time since, and I could not What was it ?-He spoke in a manner as be very positive.
if he justly deserved the vengeance of God and What did he preach about ? He gave out his wrath. a text like other clergymen from a pulpit, from Who deserved that ?-Kings in general, Daniel.
pointing to the kings of Europe. What about? Do you remember anything Did he say anything about the late king generally of the nature of the text :- I remem- of France I-I cannot say I remember he did ber nothing of the text itself. It was scarce repeated by him again after he gave it out. Did he say anything about the manner in
which the law of the country is administered ? * Mr. Maconochie.- Did he mention the king -He did not seem to relish the present or the prince regent upon any of these occamode of the administration of the law, from sions ?-With regard to the king and the what he said.
prince regent, he did not name them but in What did he say? He said that there is this way. In speaking of Nebuchadnezzar and ., such a corruption of the Houses of Parliament, Belshazzar, he mentioned the conduct of that the law is not administered with equity Belshazzar, in forgetting the judgment of God and justice.
upon Nebuchadnezzar. He mentioned that Did he use any epithets of contempt or dis- Daniel addressed Belshazzar to the effect, that respect more than what you have said ?-I re- notwithstanding the judgment of God upon collect he certainly did so.
Nebuchadnezzar, yet Belshazzar did not mend What were the words ?-I know the words his ways. And he said, that notwithstanding were taken down in my declaration ; but I the prince regent saw the state of his father for have rather forgotten them.
these seven years, he did not mend his ways; Do you remember none of them at all ? or words to that import. What was the nature of them ?-—They were Did Mr. Douglas, upon either of these disrespectful, but I cannot name them now. occasions, mention the House of Commons
He made some remarks upon the House of John Maccallum sworn.- Examined by
Commons; but to what extent, or what he said, Mr. Muconochie.
I could not positively enter into, I cannot say Do you know the prisoner at the bar?-I I can recollect now. At the time, I may have, do.
had more remembrance. Did you ever go and hear him preach ?-I Do you remember the substance of what he was ordered by the magistrates of Glasgow to said about the House of Commons ?-Upon, hear himn two Sundays successively.
that head, I do not wish to say any thing, as I Did you go? --Yes, to Jobn-street.
am not safe to do it. What time was this ?-In the month of Do you remember his mentioning the March; it might be before or after, I am not Habeas Corpus act ?-I remember it sounded very certain.
in my ears, as if he mentioned it, but I could Do you remember the text from which he not take up what he said about it. preached ?-I remember the subject, but the Do you remember whether Mr. Douglas chapter has escaped me.
said any thing about the administration of jus-, What was the subject ?-On the impious tice in the country ?-I remember something feast of Belshazzar.
of his remarks on our courts of judicature. Do you remember any comparisons he What did he say?–There was something he made ?-1 hare mentioned in my declara- was not satisfied with; their procedure was tion
not what he would recommend.' He said that,
the Courts condemned some of the reformers Court. – You are only to tell us what you without judges or jury; that is to say, without recollect of these two preachings ?-Well, I sufficient evidence, which the Scriptures de-. will do justice to my own conscience, and the mand, that in the mouths of two or three witsubject also.
nesses every thing should be established, Mr. Maconochie.—Tell what you remember?
Did he say any thing about the judges in the - There is very little that I do remember.
time of our Saviour?-I wish to make a reTell what it is ?- He hinted or spoke to the mark, in order to do justice to both sides of the import, that Britain is the mystical Babylon question. He said, that, in the time of Cornmentioned in Scripture.
wallis in Ireland, a serjeant was condemned, Did he draw a comparison between the two? upon the testimony of one witness, for keep- I do not remember.
ing company with United Irishmen; that it
actually happened that the man had retired to Court.-Do you remember his saying any
a private place for devotion, at the time when thing of them together ?-He just made a com- he was accused of being with the United parison, saying Britain is the mystical Babylon Irishmen; and he said thai Cornwallis got the mentioned in the Scripture.
man off, after being condemned. Mr. Maconochie.—Did he say any thing tions on the judges in the time of our Saviour?
I ask you, whether he made any observaabout the king or the prince ?-As far as I re- Did he make any comparison between them collect, he made observations as to the king, and the present judges of this country ? - It and said, of all rulers who follow the conduct followed, if not iinmediately, in some portion of Belshazzar, that their fate would be the of the lecture or discourse. He said the judges same. I do not remember that he made any of this country are worse than the judges in more particular allusions to our rulers, than the time of our Saviour; for they did not conto those of any other nation of the present demn persons without a competent number of time.
witnesses, granting they were false witnesses. Court.-You say he made no particular Repeat this ?-He said that the judges in allusion, but spoke only of kings and rulers in our day are worse than the judges in the general ? Yes, my lord.
uime of our Saviour, in this respect, that
they do not find sufficient witnesses to condemn | Lord might change the hearts of his evit those that are considered guilty. He said counsellors, and place righteous men in their that they are worse than the Jews who con stead. demned our Saviour; that the Jewish judges Did he say any thing about the House of found a competent number of witnesses, Commons ?-That it is a corrupt House, and allowing them to have been false witnesses. should be reformed.
Did this remark allude to the witnesses in Any thing more?-I do not remember. the court-martial you spoke of, or in the trials Do you remember the psalm upon that of reformers ?.-I could not say.
occasion ?-I remember it was the second Do you remember his saying any thing psalm. He commented on the lines as he about the vessel of the state ? ---He considered read them. that, if it be not conducted in a better way, Did he say any thing about the prince and unless committed to a skilful pilot, it during the psalm or any other time?-I believe would not reach the shore in safety.
he prayed for the poor infatuated prince, that Do you remember his making use of the the Lord might turn his heart. word millennium ?-Yes, I think so.
Hugh Paterson sworn.—Examined by What did he say?-_This age is the millen
Mr. Drummond. nium of corruption.
Do you remember what he said immediately Do you remember going to hear Mr. after that?- I am not able to say.
Douglas preach ? -Yes. Matthew Lowdon sworn.—Examined' by
On Sunday evening ?-Yes.
At what date -I do not remember the Mr. Drummond.
date. Do you
know that man at the bar?-Yes, In the month of March ?--Either the month I do.
of March or latter end of February. Mr. Douglas ?-Yes.
More than once ?-Yes. Do you remember going to hear him preach? How often ?-Twice. -Sometimes in April or March.
What did he preach from ?-From Daniel.' Was there a week or a month between the Do you remember any part of what he said ? times ?-A week or two, more or less.
-Some words. How often?-I think three times altogether. What were they?-Do you remember his
Did he preach from the same text ?-I re- saying any thing about the prince regent?member none of his texts but one, about the Yes, I recollect of that. handwriting on the wall.
Was it in his prayer or sermon he spoke of Was there a great crowd !—There was a the regent ?-I think I remember that he very full house.
mentioned the regent in his prayer. He was Was the congregation of the lower ranks of praying to his Maker to turn his heart, that the people?-I do not know. They were all he might dismiss his corrupt Court, and place very well dressed. I cannot tell high from in their stead better men, who would take low at these times, at least on Sondays. better charge of the prince.
Do you remember what he was preaching Did he apply any disrespectful expressions about ?-I remember he said that Nebuchad to the prince regent?--To the best of my nežzar was driven from the society of men recollection, he called him a bewitched, or among the beasts of the field, but repented, poor wretched prince, or some such expresand glorified God; and that Belshazzar took sion. no warning from his fate; that the king is What else did he say about him ?- There driven from the society of men, but not to that was little more in the prayer that I recollect. of beasts, and that the prince regent takes no Was there any thing about him in the warning from the circumstance.
sermon?-Yes, I think there was. Have you a distinct recollection of these And what was in the sermon ?-He was words ?-Quite distinct.
-speaking about not taking a warning from his You said something more of that kind ?-1 father's fate. could not always distinguish what he said. Wbat did he say would happen to him if He spoke as if he was short of the tongue. He he did not take a warning from his father's got into a rapture sometimes, and his voice fate ?—I do not recollect it at present. afterwards feil low; and until he recovered Did he say any thing about Nebuchadnezzar? his breath I could not hear him.
-Yes. He was very animated ?—Yes.
What about him ?-That Nebuchadnezzar Did he say any thing about the House of was driven from the society of men, and Commons ?— I remember his speaking about suffered much from the different sins that he a corrupt House; I remember his speaking had committed. about that.
Did he make any comparison to NebuchadCourt.-Do you mean to say he called the nezzar ?-Yes, that our king had been driven House of Commons a corrupt House?—Yes. also from his state and the society of men.
Do you remember any thing he said about What more did he say about our king ? Did jt?-Not that I 'remember of. He prayed he say why he had been driven from his state heartily for the king and the prioce; that the and from the society of men ?-Not that I re