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nock, held on the 7th December 1816, for the Do you remember a meeting held in Depurpose of deliberating on the most proper cember last in the neighbourhood of that town? method of remedying the present distresses of —Yes. the country, with a full report of the speeches Was a MS. account of the proceedings at on that occasion"?-I never saw it, except that meeting afterwards brought to you to be one day lying on the table before the sheriff. printed ?- Part of it, William Merrie cross-examined by Mr. Grant.
Did you attend the meeting?No.
Look at that! Do you know what was the purpose of the meeting ?-It was for the purpose of petitioning
[Pamphlet handed to the witness.] the sovereign.
That was printed in my office. Do you know, if in point of fact, petitions Who brought it ?- The part I saw were drawn up and signed by the persons who brought by David Andrew, I think. were at the meeting ?- I could not say.
Was any body in company with him?-I Did you sign any of the petitions yourself? think not. -No.
Court.-Has Andrew any more names than Did you understand from what passed, that it was the intention of M'Laren to induce the one ?–I do not know. people, and you as one of them, to petition the Mr. Solicitor General.–Did you see him in legislature, or to excite violence and disturb. the other room to-day?-I did. ance?
Who altended the press while this MS. was Lord Adrocate. I object to this question.
printed ?-I did not see, as the printing-office Lord Justice Clerk.-The understanding or occasionally there.
is at a distance from the shop, and I was only opinion of any witness is not to be listened to
Did Thomas Baird attend the printing ?-I in evidence.
think I saw him once or twice; I am certain Mr. Grant.-What did you collect to be the object of M‘Laren's speech?
Are you able to say whether this publication Lord Advocate. If this course of examina- is a true copy of the MS. that was brought to tion go on, there can be no objection to my you ?-I cannot say. re-examining the witness. I did not finish my Who printed it?—Thomas Murray, a man examination of him, but on the idea that I whom I employ. could not put such questions.
Have you been paid for the printing?-No. Mr. Clerk.–We have put a question, and
Who is to pay you ?—The persons who emwe should not be interrupted. The lord advo
Who are they?- I look to Mr. David Ancate puts in his claim to put such questions. But drew, Mr. Andrew Finnie, and Mr. Baird. he must not interrupt us in order to make an examination himself.
Lord Advocate.- What was done with the Court.- He has no such intention.
publication after the printing ?-Copies were
taken from me in quantities : Mr. Baird got Mr. Grant.—I put this other question: In a quantity, and Mr. Finnie and others got point of fact, did this speech excite the people quantities to commotion or disturbance ?-No.
Mr. Solicitor General.-How many copies There was none upon that occasion ?None.
were printed ?--About 400 I think.
How many did Baird get?--I cannot say. Was it the tendency of MʻLaren's speech, from what you observed, and from what passed, might be four, five, or six dozen.
Can you say about what number?- There to create comomotion or disturbance, or to induce petitions to be sent to the Prince Regent Lord Advocate.-Do you know M'Laren ?and the two houses of parliament ?-It was to
Within this short time. induce the people to petition the Prince Regent Did he ever complain of his speeck being and the two houses of parliament.
printed inaccurately ?-No, I never spoke to Did be express himself in any way with re him in my life, to my knowledge. gard to the person of the Prince Regent in
Thomas Murray sworn.- Examined by that speech ?--Not that I remember of.
Mr. Drummond. When he advised them to lay their petitions at the foot of the throne, did he say any thing Are you journeyman to Mr. Crawford ?--Mr. of the august prince ?-I do not remember any
Crawford is my employer. thing of the throne; but he mentioned his
[The pamphlet was shown to the witness.] august prince.
In what terms ?.-In favourable terms. Was that printed at Mr. Crawford's printing In terms perfectly legal and becoming a good office ?—Yes. subject ?-Yes.
By you ?-Yes.
Is it a correct copy of the MS. given you for Hugh Crawford sworn.—Examined by
the purpose of being printed ?- There were Mr. Solicitor General.
some alterations in the proofs.
What alterations !—Typographical errors : Any to Mr. Baird ?-Never, to my rememand perhaps in some sentences grammatical brance. alterations.
Were there any alterations of the sense ?- [Part of the MS. was shown to the witness.] None that I remember of.
Mr. Drummond.-Did you ever see that beWho gave in the MS. ?-The first part I re fore?-I never saw it before ; it never came ceived from Mr. Crawford.
into my hands. Who gave you the rest ?-I received it at Thomas Murray cross-examined by Mr. Grant different times.
for Alexander M‘Laren. From whom?-It was sometimes given in when I was not in the office, and sometimes Was any part of the MS. pencilled ?-I do when I was in it.
not remember; the MS. was very imperfect, Who gave you any part of it?--Mr. David and was partly well and partly ill written; it Andrew.
was partly in quarto and partly in folio, in difDid Mr. Webster bring any of it?-Once, I ferent hands. remember.
Do you remember the part that contains the Who came to superintend the printing, and blank, what size of the paper was there ?- It to inquire after it?-That person.
was folio. I reniember it quite well. There Any body else ? -No.
were two sheets of foolscap paper written on Mr. Baird ?-He was twice or three times at without being folded. the utmost.
Was it of the size of this, folded and written For the purpose of inquiring about the pub on as this ? lication ?-He was several times in the office.
What did he do when he came ?-He came [A sheet of folio paper shown the witness.] to the office along with Mr. David Andrew to Yes. look over the first proof.
James Johnstone sworn.-Examined by Did they make any alterations !-One was
Mr. Solicitor General. proposed by Mr. Baird. i What was it ?—I do not know.
Do you remember a public meeting at Dean Can you point it out in the publication ?- park, near Kilmarnock-Yes. No, for I never had it in my hand but now and Do you know that there was a committee to before the sheriff of Ayr.
prepare and adjust the business of that meetWas any alteration made in consequence :- | ing?—I do. None.
Of whom did it consist ?—I really cannot Why was it not made ?—It was a grammati- tell; of a number of persons; of myself for cal alteration that was proposed, I thought the alteration proposed was wrong, and I had a Was Mr. M‘Laren one ?—Yes. right to make the pamphlet grammatical. Mr. Baird ? - Yes.
What became of the MS. from which the Were any resolutions prepared before the publication was printed ?-It went as all of public meeting ?-Yes. them do, it was destroyed; I was not desired Were they read to the meeting which took to preserve it.
place ?-Yes. Lord Advocate.-Look at the passage on
You attended that meeting ?-I did.
Who first spoke ?--Alexander M‘Laren. page 7." to
with allegiance," was that blank in the MS.?-If I remember rightly, after that public meeting ?—Yes, that even
Was there any meeting of this committee that part of the MS. was erased, written over ing. again, then erased and interlined; and I do For what purpose !--The particular purpose not know but I ordered my apprentice to was, to consider whether they should print their leave the blank, as I could not make it out.
resolutions and speeches. To make the sentence join properly, I left it Who attended that meeting? Were the blank. Did Mr. Baird, when he came and looked panels there ?- I think so.
Was it resolved there to print the speeches over the MS., object to the blank, or state any and resolutions ?-Yes. thing?-He never looked over it.
The several speakers gave in copies of their You said Mr. Baird came with Mr. Andrew speeches :- I believe so, but I did not see them and looked over the first proof. Did he make given in. any observation about the blank there left ?That was not in the first proof; the proof I thing but my own speech.
Did you see any thing at all given in ?-Nospoke of was the proof of the first pages of the Were you present when the proofs of the pamphlet.
proceedings were revised !-I was not present Thomas Murray cross-examined by Mr. Jeffrey
at the revision of any of them. for Thomas Baird.
[The pamphlet was shown to the witness.] Were the proof sheets sent to any one to be Is that the publication of the proceedings revised ?- They were.
which took place at Dean-park at the time you To whom? - To Mr. David Andrew.
mention ?- I suppose so.
By whom does it appear to be printed ? Mr. Clerk.-Nobody is more competent to By Hugh Crawford.
put regular questions 10 witnesses than my 'Was it resolved at the committee that he lord advocate, but I cannot permit him to should be the prinier?-Not particularly. proceed irregularly. What was the question Do you know the MSS. were sent to him?
-put? Whether MʻLaren complained of hell I do not know.
being in the MS. That was implying that Did you never read the pamphlet? - No. the words were in the printed pamphlet, and
Not even your own speech ?-No; I gave it nobody is entitled to suggest a false fact to a to Mr. Walter Andrew to revise.
witness. No fact must be assumed in putting Are these the resolutions that were read to a question to a witness. the meeting ?-I have glanced at them. I cannot say particularly they are the resolutions, recollection what the question was to which I
Lord Advocate. I wish the Court to keep in but generally I believe so.
wished to get an answer—whether or no Lord Advocate.—You are acquainted with M'Laren complained of being misrepresented M'Laren-Yes.
by “ hell" being in the printed copy. My He was a member of the committee ?– friend now admits that the question was not Yes.
irregular. You have, of course, had conversations with Mr. Clerk.-The question is not as it was him about the meeting and the publication ?- put originally. Yes, in a general way. Did you ever hear if Baird or he complained
Lord Advocate.-I put it to the Court that of inaccuracy in the statement given of the such was the question. proceedings i-Yes; Alexander M‘Laren. Lord Justice Clerk. I do not see any thing
What did he say?- That one sentence at the out of form here. end of his speech in the printed account, and cited in the indictment was not in the original
Lord Advocate.—The opposite counsel were MS. He said it runs in this way: speaking of out of form in interrupting me, and they have the petition being presented to the Prince Re- rendered the question useless. If they again, gent,“he hoped he would lend his gracious ear interrupt me, let them first desire the witness to it, as be was bound to do by the constitu- to be removed. tion; but if he did not do so, then to hell with
(Witness brought back.] allegiance." I think he said this was not in the original speech.
In what way did he say he was misrepresentDid you hear his speech ?-Only the sound ed?-I did not say so. 'I say he complained of it.
of the latter part of the sentence being put in, Did you hear any of the words of it during because it was not in the MS. the meeting !-I cannot say I did.
Then he did not complain of being misreWhat did MʻLaren say was the inaccuracy? presented ? -Yes, in one word that he did not -He complained of the latter part of the sen- pronounce the word " their,” or “our,” which tence altogether being in it at all, because it comes in before “ allegiance.” was not in the MS.
You are looking at the printed statement. Did he complain of the word “hell pa Did you not say that you had not seen it be
fore?-I did not say I had not seen it; I said Mr. Clerk. -I object to the question. There I had not read it. is no such word in the publication.
Lord Justice Clerk.--He says M'Laren com[The witness was ordered to withdraw.]
plained of being misrepresented with respect
to a word before “ allegiance," and he is enLord Advocate.-The drift of the examina- titled to look at the pamphlet. tion I was carrying on at the time was, to
Witness.-As far as my judgment leads me bring out of the witness what was the conver
to take notice, he complained of any thing insation between him and M‘Laren-whether MʻLaren objected to certain parts of the pub- giance," because it was not in his original MS.
tervening between the word “ to” and “allelication which he is alleged to have done. The ile never intended to say it; it was merely a witness said he never read that publication. I word of some Play that occurred to his memory, am entitled to put the question, in order to and he let it out. ascertain the witness's recollection; and particularly, whether M‘Laren complained of any
Mr. Solicilor General.--Did he tell you, word being in the MS. I submit that the ques- then, how the passage should have been tion I put is competent, viz. whether M'Laren printed ?-He told me the identical-words he complained of “hell to allegiance" being in used. The last words of the sentence were, the MS. The thing, I admit, is now irreme
to hell allegiance." diable, because my learned friend has instruct. ed the witness by stating that there is no such
Lord Advocate.-Did he complain of the word in the
publication; but I say it was ir- passage as stated in the indictment?—Yes ; he regular in my learned friend to interrupt me
the indictment to me to read.
gave and thus to prepare the witness.
Lord Justice Clerk.--He said the passage
was not correctly given either in the indictment with better times. What were then the geor the printed account?---Exactly.
neral wages ?--About 12s. a week, from 128. to
145. Lord Advocate. How long is it since he made this complaint to you !-I think the very greatest possible distress at Kilmarnock?
I need not therefore ask if there was the day he received the indictment.
There can be no doubt of it. James Johnstone cross-examined by Mr. Jeffrey You talked of the meeting which was held for Thomas Baird.
Dear Kilmarnock. What was its object? – You mentioned that both of the panels were Solely to petition the Prince Regent, and bothi members of the committee with you. Was Houses of Parliament, to consider the grievances Mr. Baird at the public meeting ?-Yes.
of the country. It was our opinion, that one Did you then, or at any other time, hear him great reason of them was the defective state of make any remarks upon MʻLaren's speech ?-, the representation, more particularly in our No.
part of the country; and therefore we particuDid you not hear him at any other time larly recommended attention to that. make any remarks ?-Yes, I have heard him. Were any other objects in view besides peseveral times complain, and say it was a pity titioning, any other means thought of in order the last sentence had been put in.
to obtain redress of these grievances ?-None. Spoken, or put in ?-It was a pity it had Was any conversation ever held in your been spoken at all.
presence hy MʻLaren that tended to any Were you present at the meeting about the other purpose than what is in the petition ? printing ?--Yes.
None. Was any objection made to that passage ? Did you ever hear from him any hint, that I was against ihe printing altogether, not that induced you to believe he entertained disloyal I thought there was any thing wrong in the opinions, or seditious intentions ?-Never. publication; but judging from my own, I sup- Have you occasion to know whether he was posed all the speeches were made up in a hur- of a peaceable and orderly disposition and ried way, and would not stand the scrutiny of habit of life !—I never heard or saw any thing the public eye.
to the contrary
1 Do you remember Mr. Baird making any How long have you been acquainted with objections to the publication ?-I do not par-, him?—These eight years. ticularly.
Does it consist with your knowledge that he Do you know any thing of the reasons stated was a member of a volunteer corps at Glasgow ? for or against the printing ? — The publication - I have heard that he was. was to defray the expenses incurred at the Do you know of his being in the local mipublic meeting.
litia, or Kilmarnock volunteer corps ?—He was Was the sale of the publication intrusted to in the rifle corps at Kilmarnock. any particular persons :-- To the committee in Was the public meeting conducted in an general,
orderly and peaceable manner ?-—I considered
it so. It was with no other intention I under[The MS. of the witness's speech was shown took the management, and that any genileman to him.]
will see from my speech. Was that written before or after the meet
What was the state of the weather?-It ing ?-Before.
was very coarse. There was hail, and wind, You officiated as chairman at the meeting? and snow. -Yes.
Perhaps that was the reason you did not
hear the speech ?– That was the reason; I just James Johnstone cross-examined by Mr. Grant heard the sound, but not the words. for Alexander M'Laren.
It was not weather well calculated for any You are a muslin agent ?-Yes.
person hearing a speech distinctly ?--It was For any of the Glasgow houses ?-Yes.
very bad indeed. From that circumstance, have you an op You said you were present at a meeting of portunity of being much acquainted with the the committee, when it was proposed to priat situation of the manufacturers in Kilmarnock ? the proceedings, and that M‘Laren was there, -I think so.
and that you objected to the printing. Did At present now, what may the most active any other person object ?–Mr. M‘Laren obweaver be able to clear in the course of a jected particularly to the printing of his week ?-At present things are rather better speech. than they were some time ago. From a cal What passed upon that occasion ?-There culation I have made, an active weaver may was a great deal of altercation as to the printat present gain about 58. 6d. a week.
ing; and it was at last agreed that those who What might he be able to gain a week on an had made speeches should give them to a average of the last year?-From 48. to 4s. 6d. committee appointed to superintend the print
How many hours work a day was necessary ing. to gain this sum ?--At least from 14 to 15 Did Mr. M‘Laren still object to his speech hours.
being printed ?~He said, though the rest were You have compared this period of distress printed, he did not see any reason for printing
bis, as it was made up in a hurried manner, | He was appointed to tell them. Mr. Baird and that he had no intention that morning of said he had called on the magistrate, but had speaking at all.
not found him, and he said he would go again, Were you present at any meeting of the com and I understood from him he did go again. mittee previous to the public meeting, for ar
Was there, according to your knowledge, ranging about the public meeting ?Yes, I was any obstruction offered by the magistrates to at them all, I think.
the meeting ?-I saw none, At a previous meeting were any steps taken Do you know whether, in point of fact, peas to appointing a person to open the pro-titions, founded on the resolutions adopted at ceedings at the public meeting? - It was dis- that meeting were prepared to the Prince cussed; and after a great deal of discussion, Regent and the two Houses of Parliament? M'Laren agreed, that if no other person came | They were. forward, he would do it; and he mentioned to
Did you read them over ?-I think nearly. me since the meeting, he had no idea he should I heard them all read. open the business, as another person had given Does it consist with your knowledge that a kind of promise to do it, and that person not they were forwarded ?-I was told so by Mr. appearing on the field, he went to a public- | Baird.' I read in the public papers that they house and prepared some observations. I saw were presented. him the night beforet he meeting, when he If I were to show you a printed copy of the told me he had hopes another person would petition, should you remember it? Do you know who that other person was ?- dictment about the petition.
Lord Advocate.—Nothing is said in the inYes, M‘Laren told me.
Was the name of that other person publicly Mr. Clerk.-Much will be said in defence mentioned !-No, it was not.
upon this very fact about which we Was either of you a member of the com- examining the witness. mittee that superintended the printing ?—None
Lord Advocate.--Defences have been given of us.
Do you know anything of a disturbance that in for the panels, and no notice is taken in took place about meal previous to the meeting? lordships will take notice of this. I only wish
them of productions being to be made. Your -I heard of it.
Were you at Kilmarnock at the time ?-I was you may keep this in view. about two shops from it at the time. I did not Lord Justice Clerk.-We must receive whatconsider it a mob or disturbance.
ever may go to exculpate the panels. Have you occasion to know how M'Laren conducted himself upon that occasion ?-No, I [The account of the petition in a printed copy have not.
of the Journals of the House of Commons You said you hare known him eight years.
was handed to the witness.] Did you ever know him to be connected with Mr. Grant.- Were these the terms of the any body of men assembled for any seditious petition ?-As far as my judgment serves me, or illegal purpose ? —Never, so far as I knew that is the substance of the petition. him, otherwise I would ncver have kept com Have you any doubts whether this is the pany with him.
same petition ?-I have none at all. None You are an extensive agent?-There are some can suppose my memory is such as to say these much more extensive than I am.
are the identical words. Have you ever heard MʻLareu was a member Your answer is quite proper. I have put a of any society for any purpose ?-Of none but cross at the margin. Say whether you recollect this committee.
particularly that the words there form part of Court.-Does this committee still continue ? the petition? -No, the committee does not continue.
Lord Advocate.--I consented to a few quesMr. Grant.-Was this committee open for
tions being put to the witness, but I now obany person to go to?_We never had a meeting ject to any farther questions that are not cross. which was not open; and there were always Mr. Grant.--I am just finishing this part of some others present besides the members of the examination. I have only to read a pasthe committee. 'Any one was asked to attend. sage, and ask the witness whether he remem
Were any precautions taken to keep your bers it. “ When we came to discover those proceedings secret from the magistrates ?- alarming facts, our hearts stood appalled, as if None.
we had trod on a volcano : We looked around Was it ever hinted or proposed that it would for the cause, and we found it in the very be necessary, to keep the proceedings secret corrupt and defective representation of the from the magistrates ?-Never.
people, in parliament. We found, that the In point of fact, were the magistrates made Commons House, whose members ought to be acquainted with the intention of the meeting ? chosen annually by the people-should be the -I believe so. I called and told Mr. Baird I organ of the people's voice--the guardians of would not attend unless the magistrates were their rights and of the public purse—had lost made acquainted with the intended meeting, all control over the servants of the Crown, and VOL. XXXIII.