« PreviousContinue »
was asked the reason, and he said it was to the least signs of cowardice, that man ought prevent its slipping in his hand when he was to be run through upon the spot;" a tall man doing the job.
that was in the room, whose name I do not Was that like a butcher's knife ?-No, a know, spoke, saying he could pretty well see. butcher's knife is sharp at the point; he said the meaning of his speech; “but,” says he, he had procured it for that purpose ; about “ you speak as if all that were in the room this time Bradburn came up, saying he wished knew what we were met here for; that is what Thistlewood to send some person to the men I and some of us wish to know; I am not a he had collected together, at a spot where they man that am afraid of myself, nor should any might be more handy.
man that turns out on such a thing as this be Who was appointed for that purpose ? - afraid of his life ; I will be the first man, if ! Tidd was appointed ; Tidd was noi very will see any man a coward, to run him through." ing to go, as he said, because they were Irish. Palin was going to speak again ; at this momen; he thought it would be better for one of ment, in came Brunt into the room. their own country to go; for one of their own Did Brunt come alone, or Brunt and country would do better with them.
Thistlewood ?-Brunt alone. Brunt seeing, Did he at last go ? -Yes, he did.
as it appeared to me, an alteration in Do you happen to recollect how the pri- the countenances of the men in the room, soner Davidson was accoutred ?-I cannot wished to know the cause; he was told that charge 'my memory that I saw any thing of there were those in the room, who did not that kind.
know what they were met there upon, and Tidd.—My lord, I did not understand the is not the room where you are to be informed,
wished to know. Brunt said directly, "This evidence the last time he brought my name into question.
go along with me to the room in the Edgware
road, there I will tell you." Brunt said then, Mr. Baron Garrow.—You do very rightly, if
“any man that goes along with me, I will any thing passes which you do not hear dis treat him with a drop of something that is tinctly, to inform us of it, and it shall be re- good, in order to put them in spirits for what peated: the last he has stated respecting you they are going about.” The tall man made was, that on Bradburn coming up, and saying answer, “I hope whoever is going on this he wished Thistlewood to send some person to piece of business will not go and drink, for a the men he had collected near the spot, you fit to be trusted; for a man so doing would
drunken man in such a business as this is not were desired to go; that at first you rather objected to that, stating that the men who were
throw himself into the hands of his enemies." to be met weré Irish, and that one of their On this Brunt began to put the men on the own countrymen would manage better with
move to go to the Edgware-road, saying (and them than you who were English, and that
that was the first time I heard that), that Palin you at last consented.
would want that room to bring his men to. Tidd.—You have made a mistake there.
Davidson.-Mr. Attorney-general, you asked Mr. Baron Garrow.—You will have an op- the witness mean to say that I was at Fox
the witness how Davidson was accoutred; does portunity, by your counsel or yourself, to put court that evening. any questions that you think proper; but it is not only more regular, but it is more advan Mr. Solicitor-General.-Was Davidson at tageous to you to wait till he has concluded Fox-court that evening ?-I have not said he his examination before you put any questions ; | was: I did not see him there that afternoon, at you shall have the full opportunity in its pro- the time I am speaking of. per time.
You have given an account of meetings that Mr. Solicitor General.-Do you remember the 23rd of February; was Davidson fre
took place from the beginning of January to Palin's coming in ?—Yes. On his coming in, did any thing pass ?-
quently at those meetings in that place ?Yes; Palin, seizing the opportunity of Thistlewood and Brunt being out of the room, which you now speak ?—No, he was not.
But he was not at the particular meeting to begins to address himself to what were in the room; saying, “ Gentlemen, what you are met Mr. Baron Garrow.--I have been looking here for, I hope you all know what it is; if to my note of what passed on a former day, as such, I hope you will give it a consideration; well as the present, and he did not name you first ask yourselves respecting the deed of as one of the persons present at that time. the assassination, whether you conceive, within
Davidson.—Thank you, my lord. yourselves, it will be a matter of consequence to your country; if you conceive it will be of Mr. Solicitor General.—Was he at the meetconsequence to your country, then in the next ing on Sunday, when this meeting was arplace you ought to come to a determination ranged ?-Yes, he was. to stick true to each other; unless you come to And he had been at several of the previous ? this determination, you can do no good; any -Yes; the first of my knowing Davidson was man that is seen, after you begin this, to show on the 10th of January,
: That was before you went to prison ?-Yes. | Thistlewood seeing me looking at him turned
After this bad iaken place, and Brunt put himself away; Tidd came towards me, and I the men on the move, did you go up Oxford said to Tidd, “Tidd do not you think this is street ?--I did.
a pretty set out; do you think it is possible Did you meet Thistlewood in the Edgware for the men here to do that which is talked yoad !-- Yes.
of;" Tidd said, “no, it never can be done." Was Brunt with you at that time?-Brunt and another man.
Tidd.-My lord, I have no opportunity of Did you all go together to the stable in speaking. Cato-street-Yes. When you went into the stable did you see better for yourself you should postpone it;
Mr. Baron Garrow. - It would be much any person in the stable on the ground floor!-I saw Davidson sitting, and Wilson you may be sure your learned counsel will
take a note of it. standing, apparently, as it appeared to me in walking along, doing something to the Tidd.—It immediately concerns what Mr. pikes.
Adams said last.
Mr. Baron Garrow.—It is irregular for you
to break in, but I would not on that account together, including those that were below?There were about six or seven of them, or your doing it; but you may be quite sure it is
if you tell me you prefer doing it now, forbid there might be more. What was there up stairs in the room ?-On before you put any question, than to break in
more for your advantage to hear all he says the bench in the room, there were pistols and upon his narrative ; if you should omit it in cutlasses. What kind of a bench was it?–I did not undertake to remind you before the proper
consequence of having your mind occupied, I take particular notice of the bench. Was it like a carpenter's bench?-Yes.
season for your putting questions is gone by. What passed up there; did more men come Mr. Solicitor General.--Did This:lewood say in ?-There were more came in the course of any thing upon this ? - Thistlewood said, “Í the evening. From the accounts that Thistle- hope for God's sake you will not think of wood gave, counting the men that were in the dropping the concern now, if you do, it will room, there were eighteen men in the room up turn out a second Despard's job;" saying, that stairs, and two below, which made twenty. there were quite men enough in the room, and
Did they appear to you to be as numerous “you seem to be frightened for fear of not as that?-Yes, they did.
having strength enough.” Thistlewood said, Were you yourself armed in any way !--I “supposing lord Harrowby to have sixteen bad a blunderbuss, which I took off and laid servants in his house, they will not be preupon the bench, and a broomstick, that had pared as you are ; but not only that, but they been prepared for the reception of a bayonet, will be terrified, and from going into the house for Brunt; I delivered them both.
to coming out of it again, will not exceed ten Was Tidd there at that time ?-Ile was not. minutes." He just went over it saying, that
Was Brunt there !--Brunt was up in the fourteen men, he thought, would be enough to loft when I went up.
go into the room; these fourteen men were And Thistlewood went up with you ?-Yes, proposed, after its first being put to all in the he went up before me.
room, whether all in the room present were Did any thing pass about Tidd not being agreeable to go. there?-In going up from the stable, Thistle It was put to the persons in the room, whewood and Brunt were in discourse together. ther they were agreeable to go ?-Yes.
Thistlewood seemed rather agitated, for What was done upon that ?-On their confear, as it appeared to me afterwards, Tidd senting to go, there were fourteen men picked would not come, Brunt perceiving there was out. an alteration in the countenance of what men For what were those fourteen men picked were in the room, and Ings as well, Ings began out!—They were picked out for the sole purto stamp and swear: he hoped they would not pose of going into the room to do the murder. stop now; if they did, he should either hang 1 What were the others to do?--The other himself or cut his throat. On this, Thistlewood six were to secure the servants. goes to the end of the table; just after this The six were to be employed in the manner Tidd came.
you represented before, to guard the stairs and Had any thing passed about Tidd's not the area ?-Yes. coming ? - Brunt turned himself round to the Was any thing done in the way of separating bench, and said, he would venture his life that them from the rest ? --The men stood at this Tidd would come; that he was confident of time where they were, and Brunt produced a it, and shortly after this Tidd came into the bottle, and just at the conclusion of this, I room.
heard a noise down stairs. Tell us what passed ?-I saw Tidd talking I want to know whether the fourteen men to Thistlewood ; Thistlewood seemed at this moved to any separate part of the room or not? Lime a little agitated, and so did Tidd himself; -No, not to the opposite side of the bench ;
after the officers came into the room, they Mr. Baron Garrow. Was he there when sidled into the little room.
Brunt made the speech you have just stated ? Were the fourteen men singled out for the --He was. purpose of doing this ?-Yes.
Was that after you had made the observaWhat did they do?—They agreed to go into tion to Tidd, “A pretty set out; do you think the room.
these men can accomplish the work ?”- After Who were those men ?-.There were, This- I had made the remark. tlewood was one; Ings was another; Brunt
Mr. Solicitor General.--Both Brunt's and was another; Hall, Wilson, and Davidson
Thistlewood's speeches were after that ?-Yes, was proposed.
And Tidd remained in the room ?-Yes.
When were you first apprehended :-On know, I have mentioned all the names i Friday the 25th.
When you made your escape, did you go know, and Bradburn and some others that I do not know. Were they separated to a dif
back to your own apartment ?—Yes, and referent part of the room from the rest ? ---Those mained there till I was apprehended. who were to go in.
You were afterwards, I believe, examined After that separation had taken place, or
at Whitehall, with the other prisoners ?—I was
not examined that day.
But you were afterwards ?-Yes.
ss-examined by other person made any address to the people ?
As all the jury have not had the misfortune « You seem to think there is not sufficient told us—that among your other virtues, you
to meet you three times, just tell me what you strength to go;" he declared that if there were abandoned your religion ; that is so, is it not? not more than eight or nine men, he himself
-It was so. was determined to go; he directly said if there
You became a disbeliever in Christianity? were not more than five or six men he would
- I did. go. “We have things here which some of
And that at the age of forty-five years ?-you know nothing about, that will blow the
Yes. house up, and if I go with five or six and find
You do call yourself a christian now ?-Yes. myself in danger, I will clap fire to it, and blow the house down over our heads."
When did you come back to the belief of
Christianity ?- I may say that I came back to Mr. Solicitor General. - You state, that the belief of Christianity about the 24th, but I while the picking out the men was going fora was convinced before that. ward, you heard a noise below; what kind of Though you were convinced of it before, noise was that ? --The sound of a pistol ; di- you did not come back to the belief till the rectly after this, at the bottom of the ladder, 24th ?-I did not exactly. the word was given “ Holloa, show a light !" That was the day after you were in maron this, Thistlewood turns to the bench, takes vellous great danger of being hanged ?-It the candle, and from that goes to the head of the ladder in the room, looks down, saw they So that the fear of the halter brought you were coming, turned round, and set the candle back to your old belief ?-It might have some on the bench; on this they began to sidle off effect. (which was the first time I saw this little room) I observe you have very much altered your into the little room; the officers came into the manner; you do not seem quite so vehement; room.
has any body been talking to you since you They came up the ladder?-Yes: and took were examined here ?-No; I do not want any the command of the room, with their pistols body to talk to me. presented.
You have changed it because you think it You need not describe what took place at somewhat more decent ?—No; I am rather that time, as we shall have that from the offi- unwell. cers themselves; I believe the lights were Had you mixed much in political society blown out after Smithers was killed ?-Yes; before you met Mr. Thistlewood ?-Never in as soon as the pistol went off.
my life; I have had my political opinions, but And you made your escape ?—Yes. never to join a party.
When Thistlewood said that fourteen men Was it among your political opinions, that would be sufficient to go into the room, was it was lawful to sweep off fifteen men in cold Tidd in the room ?-He was; but I am pretty blood ?-It never was lawful in my sight. sure that Tidd was not one that was to go into I dare say you thought it a very atrocious the room.
act ?-I thought it a very cruel one at the Was he in the room at the time when they first proposal. gave the assent to what Thistlewood proposed, You recollect you told me it was first prothat they should go on with the measure ? - posed to you on the 2nd of January ?-Yes. Yes, he was.
And notwithstanding you thought it so cruel
an act, you consented to be introduced to Mr. | assassinate the cabinet ministers, Mr. Brant Thistlewood ten days after, on the 12th ?-I said, “You must come to another room, and did.
there you shall know ?”——Yes. And from the 12th of January to the 23rd And upon that, men joined you?- They of February, when you were disappointed all followed us. of you, you still continued to frequent meetings It was not the same. party that were to go where that matter was debated, settled and from Cato-street to lord Harrowby's, that were determined on?-Yes, I did.
to seize the cannon in Gray's-inn-lane !—The Notwithstanding all your private opinions, same party that were to do the west-end job, and thinking it was a cruel act? look to the were to go to Gray’s-inn-lane. jury ?-1 did ; I am not going to enter into Did not you tell us, that Mr. Cook was at debate at all upon it; I shall answer you, yes the head of the party to seize the cannon ?or no.
That was at the Artillery-ground. And you took no inconsiderable part in But not the west-end job party ?-No. those meetings according to your own account ; Did you know where Mr. Cook's party were -I have stated every part that I recollect; to come from ?-No. if you are in possession of any part I have not You never heard where his division hid communicated I am ready to do it.
themselves ?-No; I have seen Mr. Cook I am in possession of more than the jury himself. know of you, or than I wish to know!
I will Was Mr. Palin to fire the town with his state every thing to the jury.
own hand ?-He and others. You were at one time appointed chairman Where were his men to come from?—I do of this committee of assassination ?-Yes. not know.
Did you call yourselves so? What did you You have told us about a proclamation ; I call yourselves? most committees have a suppose that proclamation received universal name ?-If I may be allowed to make a remark consent when it was read !—The three bills.
The three bills, saying, “ Your tyrants are Mr. Solicitor General.- Make no remarks,
destroyed ?"-Yes; I did not hear any body but answer the question. There was no par
object to it. ticular name appointed.
It was part of the plan that those bills were
to be stuck up in the streets the same night? Mr. Curwood.-Were they all members of — It was proposed by Thistlewood; it was not the committee ?—They were regular except put from the chair; it was said by Thistlewood Cook, on the Sunday morning; that was the they were to be stuck up against the houses. first time that the committee met.
What became of them? I cannot say; I A committee is part of a larger body; where saw them in the room, but never out of it. was your large body ? --The larger body that Who were to stick them up! I do not know. was got together was in the room in Cato I will not go through the whole of this street; that was the largest number that was story; but ask you, do you know a man of the ever collected together to my knowledge. name of Thomas Chambers ?—I do not.
Were they the whole of those you expected Then if you do not know him, you never of to revolutionize the gorernment with ?- There course called on a man of that name, and was a talk of a vast many more attending. solicited him to join you in killing his majes
Do you know of any others ?-I do not; ty's ministers; telling him, at the same time, not by name.
you would have blood and wine for supper?Could you have brought any men into the I do not know that ever I was acquainted field ?-No.
with such a man. Your single sword was all you could con Will you deny this fact ?-I will positively; tribute?-I never got that, nor the worth of a if I were guilty of the fact I would acknowshot towards it.
ledge it; but I am not and will not acknowThat was all you agreed to contribute ?- ledge it. That was all I agreed to contribute.
On the night of the 23rd, the night you were Keep to your own account; "all the com- all detected, did you and Edwards call on that mittee themselves did not know what was man, Chambers, and desire to leave some going forward ?”—Those that were upon the arms with him?-I never saw Edwards after committee knew what was going to be done; the Wednesday morning. there were some that attended after the com Then you mean to say you did not ?— Yes, I mittee; it was not regularly termed a com- will swear I did not. mittee each time.
That we may have no mistake about the All the meetings did not know what they man, the Chambers I mean lives in Heathwere going to do?—No, some did not. cock-court, in the Strand !-I do not know
You knew what was going to be done ?- that I could find out Heathcock-court.
You have never been in that court?-Not But some man in a brown coat got up and that I know of; I may have been in it, but said, “You suppose we all know what we are I do not know it. going about, but I wish to koow ?"_Yes. You have omitted some things in your evi
When he said that the design being to dence to-day ?- I have omitted a great deal.
You stated before, that there were to be is a pretty business, do you think there are messages sent to the out-ports, to prevent any enough of us here to do such a job;" and he gentlemen leaving the kingdom without an said, “No;" did not Tidd tell you be had been order from the provisional government ?-Yes. deceived in the business which had brought
That Brighton was to be taken possession of him to that loft, but finding what it was he by a force? -Yes.
would have nothing to do with it ?-He did What had Brighton done?- Nothing more not say he had been deceived, but his answer than the other places.
to me was, “ No, it never can be done."
Was that all that he said ?-Yes. Mr. Baron Garrow.—You will find that connected with the circumstance of their permit Mr. Baron Garrow.— Prisoner Tidd, you have ting no persons to go out.
heard the last question put by your learned
counsel, and the answer given to it; if you Mr. Solicitor General.— I have omitted many wish to pursue that question further, you may circumstances, in consequence of my desire to do so, and if you wish me to refresh your shorten the case.
recollection by repeating to you the question to
former interposition referred, I will Mr. Curwood.-His lordship has reminded
do it. me, very properly, of a circumstance; they were all to be plundered if they permitted any Tidd.- Thank you, my lord ; with respect person to go out of the kingdom ?-Yes. to the last question put to him, that was the
Where was the force to come from to do question I intended to put to him; but what I this ?-I cannot say, but they expected the stated to him was this, when I came up to him people to come over.
he said, “this is a pretty piece of business," As you were a leader, what were the ar- I observed to him rangements for all this?—I had not the ambition about me to be a leader; I did not I would suggest to you, whether it may not be
Mr. Baron Garrow. Before you go further, expect they would bring things to such a
more prudent in you to confer with your pitch. What were your motives ? - I have told you ship of his discretion and judgment, rather
counsel, and to put yourself in the guardian. before; I had a reason for it, and shall not than to put the questions yourself. You will make allusion to that again. You stand here to give us the truth, and the for a moment, that the Court wishes to prevent
exercise your own discretion. Do not imagine whole truth; what was your object ?- My object was to search further
into the principles think for your advantage; the court interposes
your putting any question which you may of Brunt, as I stated the last time. What had you to do with Brunt's prin- they suppose may benefit them by their
because sometimes persons put questions which ciples ? I had a foolish and curious idea, answer, and they do them an injury; when which I call a very weak one. A foolish and curious idea?-And very have, perhaps it will be better to suggest the
they have the benefit of such assistance as you weak indeed to run myself into so much danger for that.
question to your counsel. Having stated that
I am ready to take down any question you You wish the jury to understand, that you
may propose. joined men for the purpose of assassination, firing the city, and overturning the govern Tidd. I am very much obliged to you my ment, because you had a foolish and curious | lord. idea, to know what were Brunt's principles;
I will send my question to my do you mean to state that to the jury ?—I state
counsel. to the jury, that that was my motive; that I took Brunt by the hand, and I had not been Mr. Curwood.—With respect to Davidson, long acquainted with Brunt before I had you have stated that he was not at the meetreason to believe what I thought of Brunt was ing on the 23rd ?-Yes. confirmed.
Was he armed when he was in Cato-street? So because you thought something of Brunt, -I do not recollect seeing him armed. and you wanted to know whether it was well Do you remember seeing him there at all ? founded or not, you mixed with a plot to as.
-I do. sassinate fifteen illustrious men, to fire the If he had been armed in any extraordinary city, and to overturn the empire ?—There was way must you have noticed ii?-I saw him no number of men mentioned at that time. both in the stable and up in the loft.
His majesty's ministers, who amounted to Had he at that time a belt round him, with fifteen ?-Yes.
a sword and pistols and musket?-I did not You state to the jury, that was your only observe that he had any arms; I saw that he reason for joining in this plut?—I do. was very busy amongst them.
Do you know a man of the name of What But you did not observe that he was armed ? man? -No.
-I did not. You have told us, that there was a con If he had been armed, must it not have ata versation in the loft at Cato-street, , in which tracted your attention ?-Of course, if he had some one said to Tidd or you, I believe, “ This had them about him perceivable, I should have