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TESTIMONY OF S. C. ALDERMAN.

S.C. Alderman, a witness, produced, sworn, and examined on the part and behalf of the House of Representatives, testified as follows: Examined by Mr. Manager Grosvenor: Question. Where do you reside ? Answer. In the village of Ionia. Q. How long have you resided there? A. About twenty-five years. Q. What is your principal business and occupation ? A. Land surveyor, civil engineer, land selector, and dealer in lands.

Q. State whether you ever made an application for land on section 16,-school lands,-town 24 north, range 3 west ?

A. Yes, sir.
Q: Two fractions, 5 and 6, lying upon the lake?
A. Yes, sir. I didn't make any written application.
Q. Did you apply for them ?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. When ?
A. It was about the last of December, 1871.
Q. About the last ?
A. Yes, sir; near the last.

Q. State what you said and did at the office, with reference to purchasing those lands.

A. I asked Mr. Robinson if I could have those lands a quarter down? He said I could have them at a quarter down, if I would make an affidarit that they were not valuable for timber.

Q. Did he gire you the form of an affidavit ?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you that form with you?
A. I may

bave it with me. Q. Just look and see whether you have it in your memorandum. [Witness produces an affidavit.]

Q. Was it a printed form ?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Why didn't you make the affidavit?
A. I could not make it conscientiously.

Q. What was the character of that land ? Has it pine or valuable timber upon it?

A. Part of it is pine.

Q. Did you have any talk, at that time, with Mr. Barnard about it?

A. No, sir.
Q. This was with Mr. Robinson, was it?
A. Yes, sir.

Mr. Manager Grosvenor-We offer this affidavit to show the rule of the office,--this printed form with the instructions at the bottom. The following is the printed affidavit referred to:

[EXHIBIT HH. STATE OF MICHIGAN,

County of

and of the township of — in said county, being duly sworn, depose and say, that they are well acquainted with the following described land, to wit: - in the county of

and State of Michigan, and know that the same is valuable mainly for agricultural purposes. And deponents further say that the timber standing and growing on said land is not pine, cedar, or hemlock, making said land valuable for lumber purposes, but that the timber growing thereon is principally

SS.

day of

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Subscribed and sworn to before me, this A. D. 18

NOTE.—This affidavit to be made by the supervisor of the township, or by two responsible persong, residents of the town in which the land is situated.

Q. What did you do then ?
A. I went to Saginaw.

Q. What further in reference to getting this land ?

A. Mr. Goddard asked me if I had any minutes of good pine lands?

Q. Did you give him any ?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you give him these minutes ?
A. I

gave him some minutes on the S. E. & of Sec. 16, 24 north, 3 west.

Q. Just state whether they were those two fractions, and what number they are [showing witness a book],—whether they were numbers five and six ?

A. Lots No. 5 and 6.
Q. Did you give him these ?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. As shown on this book as primary school lands?
A. Yes, sir.

The Presiding Officer-The Senate will take an informal recess for ten minutes.

AFTER RECESS.

The Presiding Officer-The Honorable Managers will proceed.

Question. You stated you gave the minutes of this land to Mr. Goddard ; is it E. G. Goddard ?

Answer. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you to have any interest in the land ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Will you state whether Mr. Goddard made application for
that land, immediately?
A. Yes, he wrote a letter.
Q. Making application ?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What are the contents of the letter?

Mr. Shipman-We object. We object to the question because it calls for secondary evidence, and there is better evidence of the fact. If they claim the letter was destroyed, let them say so, and then the next evidence would be either the man who wrote it or the man who read it. If the letter was sent to the Commissioner's office, a request should be made to produce it; and if it is not produced, possibly then secondary evidence might be produced. But it seems to me, at this time the evidence is inadmissible.

Mr. Manager Grosvenor-We have attempted to show, by a clerk in the office, that after a careful deposit of that paper in a depository in the office, the only two places it can be found in the office—the letter-book and the boxes—and they are not there, I submit that, if we went to the proper repository in the office, it is equivalent to examining the whole office. No court would require every paper in the office to be examined, before it would say that it was not there. We think we have made a prima facie case, and we have asked them to produce it. We ask from the witness the contents of this paper,—that was the paper Griswold was interrogated about,--and we have asked them to produce it; and I understand they don't require any written notice.

The Presiding Officer-At any other time than just the present, has there been any request? : Mr. Manager Grosvenor-Not formally, but this morning there was an hour's time expended with one of the witnesses on the stand, to find the paper.

Mr. McGowan - The proof of the loss of this letter was only made by the clerk Griswold, and it will be borne in mind that Griswold testifies that with that department of the office, he had no knowledge of, and was not familiar with it, and that he made the search where he supposed it was.

The Presiding Officer—It is the opinion of the Chair that there has not been sufficient showing to entitle you to go into that. The witness never saw the letter.

Mr. Manager Grosvenor-Yes, he said he saw the letter.

The Presiding officer-Very well, I will sustain the objection on the other ground. I will take a vote of the Senate, if desired.

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