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H. of R.]

Revolutionary Pensioners.

[MARCH 19, 1830.

it often happened that officers in one campaign were tech-amendment was an act of legislation. If the amendment nically continentals, and, in the next, not technically con- was legislation, what was the establishment of the original tinentals, although enlisting regular troops to do conti- rule? I leave it to others to reconcile the President's denental duty, pursuant to resolutions of the continental nunciation of General Porter's decision with the recom Congress. mendation in his message "to review the pension law for the purpose of extending its benefits to every revolutionary soldier who aided in establishing our liberties, and who is unable to maintain himself in comfort."

This was the case with Colonel Willet, of New York, and I know not how many of his subaltern officers. Why, then, should his soldiers be excluded? To my mind there is no satisfactory reason for the discrimination. The third section of this bill abolishes it, and admits them to the same priveleges which are enjoyed by their companions.

The gentleman from North Carolina [Mr. WILLIANS] wishes to amend this bill so as to provide pensions for the militia, and for this purpose he moves its recommitment Perhaps it may be said that the regulations of the de- If the gentleman is really a friend of the old soldiers, I partment, under the act of 1818, were acquiesced in by think he cannot fail to be convinced of the inexpediency Congress, and ought not now to be condemned. Call to of pressing his motion. In the first place, this bill, in its mind, sir, the circumstances under which that acquiese-title and enactments, proposes no new legislation; it proence took place. The heavy importations of 1815 and fesses nothing more than to restore the pension law's to 1816 replenished the treasury to overflowing; but they their original meaning. It is declaratory of the true inwere followed by great commercial distress and financial tent of the act of 1818, and of the construction which embarrassment. The act of 1818 had scarcely gone into ought rightfully to be given to it. New provisions, thereoperation when the treasury experienced an alarming d- fore, are inapplicable to this bill. Secondly, the Comminution of revenue. The pressure began to be felt in mittee on Military Pensions have, in another form, report1819. The next year it became so severe that we were ed in favor of the militia, and their report is under the conobliged to borrow three millions of dollars, to meet the or- sideration of the Committee of the Whole on the state of dinary appropriations for the support of Government; the Union. When that report comes up, the principles on and the year following we were compelled to make a loan which relief should be extended to them can be discussed of five millions of dollars for the same purpose. The pen- and settled. Thirdly, the bill which passed this House last sioners were more numerous than had been anticipated, session, embracing the militia, failed in the Senate, as it and they were found to reside chiefly in the Northern is understood, because it was apprehended it would seriStates. Their demands on the treasury were unexpected- ously embarrass the operations of the treasury. If we ly large, and were considered onerous. Retrenchment conform this bill to that, we have no reason to anticipate became the order of the day. One million per annum was for it a different fate. If we cannot do all the good we desaved by reducing the army from ten to six thousand, and į sire, let us endeavor to do all we find practicable. By atanother million by the disgraceful act of 1820, entitled tempting too much, we shall endanger the whole. "An act in addition to an act entitled an act to provide for certain persons engaged in the land and naval service of the United States in the revolutionary war;" but being, in fact, a repeal of that act, in regard to many persons for whose benefit it was intended. That act prohibited any pensioner, under the act of 1818, receiving his pension, until he exhibited, on oath, an inventory of all he possess ed; and authorized the Secretary of War to strike from the list of pensioners any person who, in his opinion, was not in such indigent circumstances as to be unable to support himself without the assistance of his country.

The gentleman from Tennessee [Mr. BLLL] thought proper to institute a comparison between the merits of the continental soldiers and the militia; and he gave the preference decidedly to the latter. Far be it from me to derogate aught from the merits of the militia. They were brave and patriotic, and accomplished all that militia could be expected to effect. I am willing to reward them, and will manifest that willingness when the report in their favor comes up for consideration. Some of the most bril liant achievements of the war were theirs, and are worthy of all praise; but why was it necessary for the gentleman Every thing was confided to the discretion of the Se- from Tennessee, in eulogizing the militia, to degrade the cretary of War, and he exerted it in a spirit of severity regular army? Why did he apply to them the odious episuited to the pressure of the times. None but paupers thet "mercenary?" Were they mercenarics? Did they were left on the rolls; all were stricken off who could live exchange the employments of civil life for the privations without public or private charity. Thus the boasted act and sufferings of a camp from mere mercenary motives? of 1818, that noble act of national justice and gratitude, How were they paid? In worthless rags. How were they was converted into a law to relieve cities and towns from fed? With rations inferior in quality, and insufficient in the support of certain indigent soldiers. That act also quantity. History informs us that "in January and Fereceived a construction which wrought great injustice to bruary, 1778, the army at Valley Forge was, more than many old soldiers; a person once stricken from the rolls, once, absolutely without food. Even while their condi was considered forever debarred. Although his little pro- tion was less desperate in this respect, their stock of property had been sold to pay his honest debts, and he had visions was so scanty, that there was seldom at any tinie in become the tenant of an alms-house, the Secretary of Waithe stores a quantity sufficient for the use of the troops turned a deaf ear to his petition. This injustice continu-for one week."

ed until March, 1823, when it was corrected by Congress, Again: In the year 1780, Gen. Washington thus wrote on condition, however, that the pensions should thereaf- to Gen. Schuyler: "Since the date of my last, we have ter commence, not from the time of application, but of had the virtue and patience of the army put to the severcompleting the testimony. est trial. Sometimes it has been five or six days together without bread; at other times as many days without meat; and, once or twice, two or three days without either. At one time, the soldiers ate every kind of horse food but hay."

Thus matters remained, until the late Secretary of War, General Porter, came into office. He revised the rules established by his predecessors; and being of opinion that an old soklier, whose private income did not exceed eight How were they clothed? Let General Washington's dollars a month, perhaps with an aged wife and a helpless letter to Governor Livingston, in 1778, auswer: ** Our family, did need assistance, he decided accordingly, and difliculties and distresses are such, as wound the feelings amended the rules. The House of Representatives, at of humanity. Our sick, naked! our well, naked! our unthe last session, confirmed his decision, by a vote of great fortunate men in captivity, naked!" "The want of tents unanimity; and yet it was among the first acts of this ad- for summer, and clothes for winter, crowded the hospitals ministration to denounce that decision, and to re-establish with sick, from whence an unusual number were daily the old rule, under the pretext that General Porter's conducted to the grave."

MARCH 19, 1830.]

Revolutionary Pensioners.

[H. of R.

"The returns of the 1st of February, 1778, exhibited regularity and economy which you could establish among the astonishing number of three thousand nine hundred fixed and settled troops, and will in my opinion prove, if and eighty-nine men in camp, unfit for duty, for want of the scheme is adhered to, the ruin of our cause." Again: clothes; of this number, scarcely a man had a pair of shoes. " Experience, which is the best criterion to work by, so Even among those returned capable of doing duty, very fully, clearly, and decisively reprobates the practice of many were so badly clad, that exposure to the colds of trusting to militia, that no man who regards order, regularithe season must have destroyed them. Although the total of ty, and economy, or who has any regard for his own honor, the army exceeded seventeen thousand men, the effective character, or peace of mind, will risk them upon militia." rank and file amounted to only five thousand and twelve." Again: "Militia might possibly do it (that is, check The committee of Congress, which about this time ex-the progress of the enemy) for a little while; but in a litamined the condition of the army, wrote as follows: tle while also, the militia of those States which were fre

Notwithstanding the diligence of the physicians and quently called upon, would not turn out at all, or would surgeons, of whom we hear no complaint, the sick and dead turn out with so much reluctance and sloth as to amount list has increased one-third in the last week's returns, to the same thing. Instance New Jersey! Witness Pennwhich was one-third greater than the week preceding, sylvania! Could any thing but the river Delaware have and, from the present inclement weather, will probably saved Philadelphia Could any thing be more destrucincrease in a much greater proportion. Nothing can equal tive of the recruiting business than giving ten dollars bountheir sufferings, except the patience and fortitude with ty for six weeks' service in the militia, who come in, you which the faithful part of the army endure them." cannot tell how; go, you cannot tell when; and act, you The want of wagons and horses, for the ordinary as cannot tell where: who consume your provisions, exhaust well as the extraordinary occasions of the army, presses your stores, and leave you at last in a critical moment." upon us, if possible, with equal force. Almost every speThe sagacious author of the life of General Washingcies of camp transportation is performed by men, who, ton, in commenting on the condition of public affairs at without a murmur, patiently yoke themselves to little car-the close of the year 1777, writes thus: "The problem riages of their own making, or load their wood and pro- whether a nation can be defended against a permanent visions on their back." force, by temporary armies, by occasional calls of the husThe regular army of the revolution, mercenaries! Oh bandman from his plough to the field, was already solved; 210; puter and holier motives warmed their bosoms and and, in its demonstration, the independence of America nerved their arms. had nearly perished in its cradle. All thoughts were now

The opinion of General Washington, in regard to the re-directed to the creation of an army for the ensuing camlative importance of regulars and militia, is well known.paign, as the only solid basis on which the hopes of the In a letter to Congress, of September, 1776, he thus wrote: patriot could rest."

"To place any dependance upon militia, is assuredly rest- Was there any thing in the experience of the last war ing upon a broken staff. Men just dragged from the ten-to disprove the conclusions of Washington and Marshall? der scenes of domestic life, unaccustomed to the din of Nothing. I see around me many experienced officers arms, totally unacquainted with every kind of military who can confirm their every word-who have in this House skill, which, being followed by a want of confidence in confirmed their every word on more occasions than one. themselves when opposed to troops regularly trained, dis-The legislation of Congress during the last war confirms it. ciplined, and appointed, superior in knowledge and supe. When it was found that a bounty of eight, sixteen, and rior in arms, makes them timid, and ready to fly from their forty dollars in cash, and one hundred and sixty acres of own shadows. Besides, the sudden change in their man-land, were insufficient to fill the ranks of the army, we ner of living, particularly in their lodging, brings on sick-raised it to one hundred and twenty-four dollars in cash, ness in many, impatience in all, and such an unconquera- and three hundred and twenty acres in land; and if the ble desire of returning to their respective homes, that it war had continued, we should have been compelled to renot only produces shameful and scandalous desertions sort, and would have resorted, to the much abused system among themselves, but infuses the like spirit in others. of conscription. The bill which it became my duty to reAgain, en accustomed to unbounded freedom and no port in 1814, as chairman of the Committee on the Militia, control, cannot brook the restraint which is indispensably authorizing the President to compel the militia to serve necessary to the good order and government of an army; six months after their arrival at the place of rendezvous, without which licentiousness and every kind of disorder encountered sharp opposition as well from the friends as triumphantly reign. To bring men to a proper degree the enemies of the war. By a leading member of the forof subordination is not the work of a day, a month, or a mer, who himself was a general of militia, it was proposyear; and unhappily for us, and the cause we are engaged ed in committee, and urged with great zeal, to reduce the in, the little discipline I have been laboring to establish in term from three to two months, instead of enlarging it from the army under my immediate command, is in a manner three to six. done away by having such a mixture of troops as have been called together within these few months." After stating other objections against a reliance on the militia, which I will not detain the House with reading, General Washington proceeds: "These, sir, Congress may be as- I pray gentlemen, before they make up their minds to sured, are but a small part of the inconveniences which vote against this bill, to consider the situation of those for might be enumerated and attributed to militia; but there whom it provides assistance. Their age-most of them is one that merits particular attention, and that is the ex- have passed the period ordinarily allotted to human life. pense. Certain I am, that it would be cheaper to keep Few are under threescore years and ten, and many are fifty or a hundred thousand men in constant pay, than to over fourscore years. Their infirmities-bending under depend on half the number, and supply the other half oc- the weight of years, and hardships, and sufferings, they are casionally by militia. The time the latter is in pay, before illy able to endure the toil of daily labor. Their necesand after they are in camp, assembling and marching, the sities-the bill embraces none in affluence: none who are waste of ammunition, the consumption of stores, which, in removed more than one degree above absolute want: the spite of every resolution and requisition of Congress, they owners of a house and a little land which they themselves must be furnished with or sent home, added to other in-are unable to work, and the produce of which is insufficidental expenses consequent upon their coming and con- cient to pay the wages of hired hands. Shall we withhold duct in camp, surpass all idea; and destroy every kind of from them the compensation due to their meritorious ser

VOL. VI.-80

I have dwelt on this part of the subject longer than I intended, and perhaps longer than was necessary: a sufficient apology will, I trust, be found in the degrading epithet applied to the army by the gentleman from Tennessee.

H. of R.]`

Revolutionary Pensioners.

[MARCH 19, 1850.

Mr. WILDE addressed the House at large, in support of Mr. WILLIAMS's amendment, and in support of the claims of the militia.

vices, until their creditors have turned them out of doors, and reduced them to beggary? In all the prosperity of our beloved country, shall they alone go unrewarded; who, amidst the perils of hunger and thirst, and nakedness and Mr. LECOMPTE spoke earnestly in favor of the bill, the sword, established its broad foundation, and cemented and the principle of providing liberally for the remnants it with their precious blood? I shall not begrudge--the of the revolutionary army. constituents of no honorable member on this floor will be- Mr. CROCKETT, of Tennessee, said, he felt himself grudge, the appropriations of treasure which this bill may called on to submit a few remarks on the bill under con require. Would that the suffering remnant who may sideration. Sir, [said Mr. C.] I voted against the bill yes partake of its benefits were greater. I regret their num-terday, which is called an explanatory law of the act of bers are so few. God grant that those who survive may 1818, for the relief of the old revolutionary soldiers. Sit, long live, and enjoy in comfort the reward of their virtue and valor.

Mr. SPEIGHT moved to amend the amendment by the addition, that no person should be placed on the pension roll, if his property shall exceed five hundred dollars independently of his debts.

I consider the provisions of the bill, as it is amended, a partial one, and such a one as I cannot nor will not support. I have always been the firm friend of the old soldiers, and hope ever to remain their friend while I am entitled to raise my voice in this House.

Sir, what are the provisions of the bill? You give any Mr. WILLIAMS did not wish his amendment to be en- and every man a pension, who has no more than one thoucumbered with any other proposition. He wished to ob-sand dollars, exclusive of his household furniture, house, tain the sense of the House on the simple and distinct ques-and land. Sir, in my country, we think a man pretty tion which he had submitted. well off who owns that sum after paying all his debts, and

Mr. CARSON objected to Mr. SPEIGHT's motion, that owning such property as is described. Sir, I do not consider it had been tried and rejected yesterday--that it was use-that a man in such a situation ought to be entitled to the less to offer it again, and he wished to see Mr. WILLIAMS's bounty of his Government. Sir, in my country, for the amendment tried by itself. sum of one thousand dollars, a man can purchase two

On submitting this amendment, Mr. S. said that he rose good negro men and one hundred acres of the best land for the purpose of offering an amendment to the instructions in the country. That, sir, would support a man, without of his colleague, [Mr. WILLIAMS.] He had no disposition calling on the Government for a pension. I came here to enter into the general discussion of the question before [said Mr. C.] to do justice to every man, and under all the House; for he was well aware of the situation in which circumstances; and, if I cannot do this, I will not vote for a any gentleman was placed who might venture to express partial law like this. his opinion in opposition to a pension bill, however partial Sir, this bill provides for none but those of the contiit might be in its operation. It would seem, from the disposi- nental line, and excludes all the volunteers and militia who tion manifested by some gentlemen who have participated in fought in the old war, no matter how meritorious they the debate, that all those who venture to express objections were. Sir, some of those very men, who fought bravely, to this bill are to be regarded as unfeeling and ungrateful and who are tottering through life, almost ready to drop towards those who fought for the liberty of the country. into the grave, have been knocking at the door of ConHe would inform gentlemen he felt as much regard for the gress for years; and what are we doing, sir? Passing a law welfare of them as any man. But he was opposed to this to exclude them, and to provide for men that do not need bill, because it made an invidious distinction; it contem- the bounty of the Government. Sir, tack them all together, plated provisions only for those who belonged to the regu- and I will go as far for them as any gentleman in Congress. lar line; and it was known that the Northern States were What was said by the gentleman from New York Mr. the theatre of war with the British, while, in the South, a TAYLOR.] He has drawn the distinction between the regu partisan warfare was carried on, which eventuated in pro-lars and the militia and volunteers, and has decided in fa moting the cause of liberty as much as that in the North. vor of the regulars receiving the bounty of the Govern By the passage of this bill, no provision would be made ment, to the exclusion of the others. Sir, I must beg for the troops in the South of the gallant Marion, Sump-leave to differ in opinion with that gentleman. If I were ter, and Caswell; and, in his opinion, they were equally to draw a distinction, I would give the preference to the entitled to the fostering hand of the Government as the militiaman and the volunteer. The regular sold himself regulars. He appealed to the magnanimity and the grati- to the Government for a bounty of land and money, which tude of the House, to say if the militia were to be passed he received long since, and the others went and fought by unnoticed. He knew many of them who were old and for the love of their country; they left their homes and bowed down by infirmities, and their situation called on their wives and children, and fought bravely through the this House for aid as much as any portion of the revolu- war, and received the little pittance of common wages tionary patriots. By this bill you make provision for Sir, is it just, is it honest, to exclude those men? No, sir; those of the regular line; and if they, as I have no dou'-t I am bound to decide entirely in their favor, if we give was the fact with many of them, who never saw an enemy and any a preference. But, sir, it is my wish to provide for all. never fired a gun, are to be provided for, while the poor I hear gentlemen say that we will bankrupt the nation. militiamen, who left their homes, had their wives and chil- Well, sir, let it be so-I go for all or none. I see millions dren butchered, their houses burnt, and every thing de-after millions of money voted away--for what, sir? For stroyed, are to be unnoticed, he was opposed to the bill and the petty little object of supporting your fortifications, all such partial legislation. breakwaters, or light-houses.

The amendment he had proposed fixed the maximum of Sir, in my district I know some of those deserving old property at five hundred dollars. In his opinion, that was men, who cannot long trouble this Government with their high enough; and any who was worth that amount of voices, asking aid, in their old age, to make them feel com property, after his debts were deducted, was able, without fortable. A few days more, and they hid adieu to this the aid of the Government, to support himself. Though, world. I do insist that they never ought to be forgotten in conclusion, he would say, he could not so much as say or neglected, while there is one of them to claim our gra what might be the sum fixed on, he hoped the bill would titude. They have achieved the glory and honor of our be committed with the instructions to extend the pension country by their bravery. The privileges which we are law to the militia. now enjoying on this floor, were purchased by their toil The debate now assumed a general and comprehensive and blood. Sir, let me tell gentlemen that I had the honor, in our last struggle, to shoulder my gun, and march

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in to the field. There I discovered who fought bravest, The law of the 15th March, 1822,
the regulars or the volunteers and militia. Sir, when the
regular troops were living bountifully, the militia were in
a state of starvation. I have witnessed this, and, therefore,
I am enabled to judge from that circumstance how they
fared in the first war. Sir, there are but few of those
poor old veterans in my section of country, though 1
imagine it is very different in the North. I have been in-
formed, and believe it, that they never die in the Eastern;
States. Sir, from what I can learn, I should expect that
they live always there.

Aggregate,

[H of R.

1,451,245 64 1,538,815 1,281,716 39 1,248,452 26

1,352,790

1,260,185

$14,190,144 29 "The precise number of applications cannot be ascertained, as a correct account of them was not kept at the commencement of the operation of the law; but the amount is known to exceed thirty-one thousand.

"The number of men in the continental army, at the close of the revolutionary war, was thirteen thousand four hundred and seventy-six. The army was larger in 1776 than at any other period of the war: it contained forty-six thousand eight hundred and ninety-one men.

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I discover that some gentlemen wish to get the funds of this Government distributed, and they care not for what. Sir, I came here to do justice; and I will do justice, or I will do nothing. In my district, I know one case, where a poor old revolutionary soldier, who served as a volunteer for some time, then enlisted as a sailor, and served three years on the ocean, who is unprovided for. Sir, it is la"MARCH 19, 1830. mentable to view his situation, and hear him tell of his sufferings. It is out of his power, at this time, to find any "The amount of appropriations up to this time, includof his old brother sailors who served with him. Sir, his ing the appropriation of this session, if rightly added, is situation is this: one good neighbor has supported the sixteen millions five hundred and fifty-eight thousand three poor old man, and another his old lady, and maintain them hundred and twenty-four dollars and twenty-nine cents." just as an act of charity. I presented the poor old man's The question being put on Mr. SPEIGHT'S motion, it claim to this House, and what is the result? He is rejected, was negatived without a decision. and for the reason that he cannot obtain proof, only by his The amendment offered by Mr. WILLIAMS was then own oath. Sir, I do not believe he would make a misre-also decided in the negative by the following vote: yeas, presentation for any consideration. This is one case; and I 74-nays, 107. have no doubt but there are many other such cases. God's sake, if you do extend charity to one class, do so to all. I voted against the old officers' bill, last session, because you would not attach the soldiers to them, who fought with them side by side. Now, sir, if you cut off the volunteers and militia, I will vote against this bill. will not go for them piecemeal; I take all or none, as 1 have before stated. To draw a distinction between men who have performed the same services, is what I never will agree to do. If you do not adopt the amendment of Barrenger, Bartley, Bates, Baylor, Beekman, Bockee, the gentleman from North Carolina, and attach the militia Borst, Brodhead, Brown, Burges, Butman, Cahoon, and volunteers, as proposed by Mr. CHILTON, of Ken-Campbell, Chandler, Childs, Clark, Coleman, Condict, tucky, I will enter my protest against the bill, and believe Conner, Cooper, Coulter, Cowles, H. Craig, R. Craig, that I have acted honestly. Sir, I will detain the House Crane, Crawford, Creighton, Crowninshield, Daniel, Dano longer. venport, J. Davis, Deberry, Denny, De Witt, Dickinson, Doddridge, Dudley, Dwight, Earll, Ellsworth, G. Evans,

For

I

Mr. CHILTON took the same side, and strenuously ad

vocated the amendment of Mr. WILLIAMS.

motion was lost.

Mr. POLK then spoke some time against the passage of the bill. When he concluded,

Mr. DODDRIDGE called for the previous question, which was seconded, 84 to 74; and the main question was ordered, the effect of which was to set aside all amendments and intermediate motions.

So that The question was put on the passage of the bill, and decided in the affirmative, as follows:

YEAS-Messrs. Anderson, Arnold, Bailey, Barber,

E. Everett, H. Everett, Finch, Forward, Gilmore, Green, Mr. RICHARDSON, remarking that this was one of the Grennell, Halsey, Hammons, Harvey, Hawkins, Hinds, days set apart for private bills, thought it right to make an Hodges, Howard, Hubbard, Hughes, Hunt, Huntington, effort to prevent the day being consumed by this debate;rie, Ingersoll, T. Irwin, W. W. Irvin, R. M. Johnson, and he therefore moved the previous question--but the Kendall, Kincaid, P. King, A. King, Lecompte, Lent, Letcher, Lyon, Magee, Mallary, Martindale, Thomas Mr. CARSON spoke against the recommitment of the Maxwell, Lewis Maxwell, McCreery, Mercer, Miller, bill, and in favor of its passage in its present shape. Mitchell, Monell, Muhlenberg, Norton, Pearce, Pettis, Mr. WILLIAMS had refrained from going into any reaPowers, Ramsey, Reed, Richardson, Russel, Scott, Shields, sons when he offered the amendment, hoping it would be Semmes, Sill, S. A. Smith, A. Spencer, R. Spencer, decided without debate, as every man's mind was doubt-Sterigere, Stephens, W. L. Storrs, Strong, Sutherland, less made up on the question; but as he had been disap- Swann, Swift, Taylor, Test, John Thomson, Verplanck, pointed in this hope, he now proceeded to submit at large Washington, Weeks, Whittlesey, C. P. White, E. D. White, Wilde, Wingate, Young.-122.

his reasons in favor of his amendment.

Mr. WAYNE followed on the same side, and addressed] the House at considerable length, in support of the claims of the militia of the revolution to equal favor, at least, at the hands of the Government.

NAYS-Messrs. Alexander, Alston, Angel, Archer, Armstrong, P. P. Barbour, Barnwell, Bell, James Blair, John Blair, Boon, Carson, Chilton, Claiborne, Clay, Coke, Crockett, Crocheron, W. R. Davis, Desha, DrayMr. HALL handed to the Chair the following extract ton, Gaither, Goodenow, Hall, Haynes, Isacks, Jennings, from a letter which he had received from the chief of the C. Johnson, Lamar, Lea, Lewis, Loyall, Lumpkin, Mc Pension Office, which he desired to be read for the infor

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H. of R.]

Revolutionary Pensioners.

[March 22, 1830.

taken up for consideration. The question being on re- We boast of our navy, [said Mr. S.] and it is ur policy to ferring both to the Committee on Military Affairs. have a navy. We can protect our coasts by our navy, Mr. HUNT was opposed to referring this resolution to without squandering the resources of the country in erectthe Committee on Military Affairs. That committee had ing fortifications. He condemned such a policy, and he already been discharged from the consideration of it, and would not vote away a cent to advance it. He appreit would be useless to refer it to them again. He con-hended that the secret of applying for money to erect forsidered the fortifications to which the resolution pointed tifications, was not so much the necessity for them, as as necessary to be erected on the line mentioned, although the benefit to be derived from the expenditure of the he admitted with the gentleman from Kentucky, [Mr. money in the part of the country where they are to be WICKLIFFE] that fortifications were useless in woods, or in built." Mr. S. said he did not impute any such motives a champain country, where the contending parties met on to the gentleman from Vermont, who offered the resolu equal terms. But he said in this case circumstances were tion; but let such projects come from any quarter, he different. Lake Champlain extends from Lower Canada would not give his assent to what he believed a lavish and one hundred miles and upwards into our country, and a useless expenditure, delaying the extinguishment of the few miles north of the boundary line. The British have national debt. He said he was not prepared, nor did he erected fortifications. The object of the resolution was intend, to debate the policy of the course which had been to have an examination made for a suitable place south of pursued; but, if a fit occasion presented itself, he would the line to build a fortification. He was informed that it discuss, and he hoped to be able to show, the absurdity of could be done for a little expense, and he would under-the course which had been pursued of building fortificatake to say that there was no place on our northern or tions, merely to go to decay and to become dilapidated. southern boundaries more important either for offensive or Mr. FINCH said, if his colleague had been acquainted defensive operations, than this place on our northern boun- with the exigencies of the late war, as he was, he would dary line. Mr. H. referred to the expenses which were in-have been convinced of the necessity of having fortificacurred during the late war for defending the frontier, tions on the northern frontier. During that war, not a where a large army was constantly required. Had a forti- month passed that the towns of that part of the country fication been built here, these expenses would not have were not stripped of their inhabitants. Government was in been necessary, and the army might have been employed consequence compelled to expend four times the amount to advantage in some other part of the country. The of money in defending the country on the borders of Legislature of Vermont deemed some security as neces- Lake Champlain that would be required for building a sary here; and as the expense will be but trifling, he hoped fortification. The naval defence was not sufficient. The the resolution would be adopted. enemy came up our rivers, and burned or devastated our

Mr. HOFFMAN thought that in reference to this sub-towns. The expense of the fortification would not be ject we were acting too early, and that, if even that were great, as the materials of the former fortification still renot the case, it would require a joint resolution of both remain at our disposal. The War Department is of Houses to effect this object. How can we proceed a step opinion that the measure is necessary; they have recorain this inquiry [said Mr. H.] until the boundary line be-mended it, and it is at their suggestion the resolution has tween Canada and the United States is determined? The been offered. Former experience has taught us the ne boundary line may be varied by the decision at least ten cessity of having some defensive position on the frontier, miles; and while such is the case, he thought a survey in case a like attack should ever be made against us. He would be useless. He hoped the resolution would be laid hoped the resolution would be adopted. on the table; and, unless he heard something from gentle- Mr. DRAYTON opposed the reference of the resolumen to alter the opinions he entertained, he should make tion to the Committee on Military Affairs, as they had a motion to that effect. We have already [he said] ex-been discharged from the consideration of the subject alpended much for a similar project, and it is uncertain ready. He wished that no further proceedings should whether the object of it has been useless or not. take place with respect to this resolution. It appears that

Mr. SPENCER, of New York, said, that, about the year an appropriation will be required for making the surveys 1816, subsequent to the termination of the last war, Go-if the resolution offered by the gentleman from Vermont vernment directed a fortification to be erected on Lake be adopted. At this time [Mr. D. said] it would be imChamplain, at Rouse's Point: propositions were made to possible to make the desired surveys, as the land there is effect this at an expense of probably half a million of dol-covered with water. And it would be impossible to comlars. After having incurred this expense, Mr. Ellicot, one ply with that part of the resolution requiring a suitable of the professors at West Point, was directed to ascertain site to be selected for building a fortification, until the the latitude of Rouse's Point, and it turned out that the boundary line is settled. He had no doubt, however, that fortification was about to be built one mile north of the line, the War Department would be enabled to make satisfacwhereby the whole amount expended was lost, and the tory returns by the next session of Congress. Mr. D. did materials of the building, if exposed to sale, would be not agree with the gentleman from New York, [Mr. SP13worth little or nothing. Mr. S. said he had a higher ob- CER] that the country bordering on Lake Champlain di jection to the proposition. He supposed that they on the not require fortifications for its defence in time of war; other side of the line required fortifications, and not we.for, in the event of another war, as in the last, the enemy The idea that the weaker power should attack us, and that could march into the very bowels of the country. we require a fortification for our defence, he thought pre-opinion of the Government they are required; and when posterous. The State of Vermont was alone and unaided, the boundary line shall have been settled, then the procapable of defending herself; if not, New York could jects of gentlemen can be more casily carried into effect. pour forth an overwhelming force. [Mr. D. concluded, but the debate was discontinued, as Mr. S. said, he had to reproach himself for having re- the hour allotted for considering resolutions had elapsed.] mained in the House silent, while very large appropriation bills had been passed for erecting fortifications. He asked why we should erect fortifications which will require fifty thousand men to defend them. He believed that this country would never be invaded; and believing Mr. BURGES moved to take up the bill for the ref this, he was not in favor of studding it with fortifications. of the revolutionary pensioners, to exempt them from He reproached himself for permitting such appropriation arrest on civil action, &c. it being the special order of the bills to pass, without entering his protest against them. day. The motion was carried in the affirmative.

MONDAY, MARCH 22, 1830.
REVOLUTIONARY PENSIONERS.

In the

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