turned round, till the side of his face was towards me and his back almost towards Dr. Elliott. He appeared very much agitated. His last words were those already so often proved-that counsel learned in the law had informed them, that it was necessary that morning, to organize themselves, and that they would do it in the fewest words and the shortest time possible. He was then facing the north-west corner of the house. He moved that Dr. Beman should take the chair, and, in the same breath, put the motion. By this time all the persons in the part of the house north of Mr. Cleaveland had arisen, and some were standing on the seats, and some on the tops of the pews. With one accord, there was a general yell of "Aye!" and there was one aye louder than the rest. That one, so far as I could discover, came from Dr. Beecher of Cincinnati-the old gentleman. The side of his face was towards me, and so far as I could tell, it was Dr. Beecher. There was considerable clapping and some hissing. Some votes came from the galleries on both sides of the house. The motion was not reversed. Mr. Cleaveland then moved, that Mr. Gilbert and Dr. Mason should be temporary clerks, which motion was immediately put without any negative. Dr. Beman then, requested that they should retire to the back part of the house. He stepped out of the pew into the aisle, but, at the same time, other persons rushed out of the pews on both sides, so that he could not go very far and stopped. He then called for motions, and some person, I don't know who, moved, that Dr. Fisher should be appointed Moderator. This motion was put, but not reversed. I heard then Mr. Gilbert and Dr. Mason nominated for clerks, and that motion, also, was put without any reversal that I heard. It was then moved that they should adjourn to the First Presbyterian Church: the motion was put, but I heard no negative. There were some noes at the same time, or nearly at the same time with the ayes, in an under tone. Then it was announced, that the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church in the United States of America, had adjourned to meet in the lecture-room of the First Presbyterian Church, and the whole body, with about one third of the audience passed, out at the north door as rapidly as possible. When they were nearly all gone, Mr. Edward Beecher proclaimed, that the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church in the United States of America, had adjourned to meet in the First Presbyterian Church, and requested all the delegates to attend. Some person made the same proclamation at the east door, but I could not see who he was; during which the appointment of a Committee of Commissions, which had been moved some time before, was under consideration, and Mr. Breckinridge had the floor.

Cross-examined by Mr. Randall. I was merely a spectator. Princeton, New Jersey, is my present place of residence: before, I have lived in Lancaster county, in this state. I am a student in the Princeton Theological Seminary. Dr. Beecher, at the time he made the loud cry of "Aye!" was standing on the seat, or partly on the seat and partly on the back, or on the back, of the same pew in which Mr. Cleaveland had been sitting, or of one near it. I was almost right over his head. I have never lived in the same town with Dr. Beecher, but I had seen him and heard him make several short speeches in the Convention, at the First Presbyterian Church. Still, I do not say certainly he was the man. I had never seen him before that visit to Philadelphia, and have not seen him since.

I feel confident that it was Dr. Beecher, but might possibly be mistaken. I am as confident of its being he as I could be, after having before seen him only a few times, and then seeing but the side of his face. I know, by report, that Dr. Beecher is now in the West, that he is not here. I should think the person I took for him was about sixty years of age, or between fifty and sixty, or perhaps above sixty. Dr. Beecher's manner is rather mild and persuasive.

Court adjourned.

FRIDAY MORNING, MARCH 15TH-10 O'CLOCK.

Dr. McDowell-re-called. We received, in the Committee of Commissions, and enrolled as unexceptionable, two hundred and twelve names, and we reported seven more to go to the Committee of Elections, viz: From the Presbytery of Montrose, the Rev. Adam Millar; from the Presbytery of Bedford, the Rev. Robert G. Thomson; and from the Presbytery of Richmond, a Mr. Elliott-these all being without their commissions. From the Presbytery of New Castle, General Cunningham, a ruling elder, whose commission wanted the signature of the Moderator. From the Presbytery of Londonderry, the Rev. Ephraim P. Bradford, whose commission wanted the signature of the clerk. Two persons from the new Presbytery of Green Brier, Mr. David R. Preston, minister, and Mr. Thomas Beard, elder. We reported two hundred and twelve on the roll, and these seven, to go to the Committee of Elections, whenever one should be appointed-in all, two hundred and nineteen. I can tell how it was in regard to Mr. Moore. When the Moderator asked, that commissions not yet presented should be brought forward, immediately, or soon after, Mr. Moore came, and laid his commission on the clerks' table; it was examined by the Committee of Commissions, after the retiring body had withdrawn, and the confusion had subsided, and reported by them. I am confident, that he presented the commission that morning, and his name is on the minute, as one of those called and recorded present in the afternoon. The roll was called in the afternoon, and there were one hundred and fifty-four that answered to their names. These included six of the seven, whose commissions had gone to the Committee of Elections. That committee was appointed in the morning, immediately after the body of the New-school had retired. Sixty-eight persons did not answer to their names. Of these, two, Messrs. White and Magruder, of Charleston Union Presbytery, afterwards acted with our Assembly; three, Dr. Green, and Messrs. Snowden and King, had not yet come in, and were recorded absent: the number of sixty-eight was thus reduced to sixty-three. Of these, thus marked absent, Mr. Scott rose, and being permitted to give his reasons for not answering, I believe withdrew and went home. That left but sixty-two. I do not know, of my own knowledge, that Mr. Scott went home. Of the one hundred and fifty-four, who answered to their names, Messrs. Rankin and Crothers, from the far West, rose, expressed a wish to be considered as not acting with that body, and withdrew. At the close of the session of our Assembly, the roll was called to mark those who were absent without leave; and we found fifty-seven so absent, all of them being of the number of sixty-eight recorded absent before. There were four commissioners, who

joined our Assembly, arriving after the first day-one on the ninth, two on the eleventh, and one on the twelfth day of its sessions, making the whole number of those who acted with that Assembly, one hundred and sixty-one. I was not a member of the Assembly.

Examined by Mr. Preston. Dr. Witherspoon was present at the opening of the Assembly. He was the Moderator immediately preceding Dr. Elliott. Dr. Phillips immediately preceded Dr. Witherspoon. I suppose that Dr. Wm. A. McDowell was present, though he was not a member. He had been Moderator in 1833. There were other persons present who had been Moderators. Dr. Green had been, and the witness. Dr. Beman was moderator in 1831. I was appointed Stated Clerk, in the year 1836, after Dr. Ely had resigned the place. Before that, I held the office of Permanent Clerk, or scribe of the Assembly, from 1825, to 1836. In 1837 I held both offices, and was alone on the Committee of Commissions.

Cross-examined by Mr. Randall. When the roll was called at the close of the Assembly, fifty-seven were marked absent-it was either fifty-seven or sixty-seven. I am perhaps mistaken in the number: I may possibly have made a mistake in counting them.

Mr. Randall, (handing to the witness the Minutes (Old-school) of 1838, page 47.) Please to count again the list of absentees, and tell us how many there are.

Dr. McDowell, (after counting) I find the number was sixty-five. I must have made a mistake in counting before.

Mr. Hubbell. Had Dr. Hoge been Moderator since Dr. Beman?
Dr. McDowell. I am not able immediately to say.

Prof. Maclean-permission having been given to him to explain his testimony. I have been informed, that my testimony might be misunderstood. I was asked a question of this import: whether I had not said, that there was as little disorder as possible under such circumstances. I answered in the affirmative, but did not mean that it should be inferred, that there was little or no disorder. I meant only, that, considering the business in which they were engaged, they made as little disturbance as could be expected. Part of the disorder which I referred to, was made by Mr. Cleaveland. He read a disorderly paper, and did not obey the Moderator, when he called him to order. Then a number of persons rose, and went toward the north door. They stood in the aisles, on the seats, and on the backs of the pews. I was unable to hear the questions put, and did not vote.

Here the Respondents closed.

REBUTTING TESTIMONY FOR THE RELATORS.

Dr. Hill-re-called. I think there was sufficient time given for the vote on Mr. Cleaveland's motion for the appointment of Dr. Beman as Moderator, and I think the question was reversed. I think I may say it was reversed, and I will give my reasons for saying so. When Mr. Cleaveland was about to put that question, in my estimation, it was the

most critical and interesting moment in the whole proceeding, because it was the incipient step in the organization. This awakened all my attention. I may state here, that I had opposed the separate organization. Mr. Randall. We cannot go into the previous meeting.

Dr. Hill. I had determined, beforehand, to take no part, and was opposed to the proceeding, from the very first. I voted on none of the questions, and identified myself with neither party. I occupied neutral ground. I expected that a riot would ensue. My feelings were wound up to a very high pitch of excitement, which made me peculiarly attentive at this crisis. When Mr. Cleaveland made the motion, that Dr. Beman should take the chair, he put the ffirmative-" All those who are in favour will say, aye." At this moment I was particularly attentive to the Old-school brethren, casting my eyes over them, to see what they would do. There arose a simultaneous burst of ayes, some of which were very indecorously and offensively loud, but I know not from whom they came in a single instance. They appeared to come from back of me, but I did not turn round: I kept my face toward Dr. Elliott. Afterwards there fell in a few scattering ayes. Mr. Cleaveland, as, from the first, he had intended to do all in the shortest time possible, reversed the question very quickly: I dont know, that all the scattering ayes had ceased, when he reversed it. I heard a few scattering noes, only from the direction of the Old-school-a few from the south-west, and some from immediately in front of me. I was astonished at this, because I expected a thundering "No!" as they claimed to be the majority. As there were so few negatives, I was surprised that there had been any. I thought they were, at least, not well trained. For these reasons my attention was particularly called to the proceedings at that crisis. I think I cannot be mistaken in my recollection.

I know Dr. Beecher, and saw him that day: he sat in the pew immediately before me. During all these transactions he sat perfectly still, and behaved with the utmost decorum. He is, I believe, at present in Cincinnati, not here on the ground. He is very much of a gentleman in his deportment, so far as I am acquainted with him. My location was such, that I could not be deceived in regard to him, for I sat right back of him. Mr. Cleaveland and Dr. Patton were in the pew in front of me, and Dr. Beecher sat in the same pew. Mr. Cleaveland was so near me, that I could have laid my hand on his shoulder as he rose. I was as favourably situated for hearing, as I could have been; hence I infer, that I could not be mistaken in the case.

Cross-examined by Mr. Preston. I was surprised at hearing any noes, and disappointed. I had expected that the noes would be of another character, and was agreeably disappointed. I had anticipated these events, and had feared, that a great riot would take place. I really cannot say, from personal knowledge, whether the Old-school had a majority. I know they claim to have had a majority, and I rather suppose it was the

fact.

Mr. James R. Gemmell-sworn. I attended at the church in Ranstead Court, on the day of the organization of the Assembly of 1838. I was near the south-west door, leaning on a pew, just under the gallery, not far from the Moderator. I remember Mr. Cleaveland's rising, and his stating that he wished to offer a resolution. There were a parcel of Old

school brethren at my right. In the pew on which I was leaning, there was a great noise, and scraping and coughing. I said to them, that that was pretty conduct for ministers; that they might as well hear what the gentleman had to say. One of them answered, yes, that they might as well. I don't remember that there was any coughing; but there was a great scraping of the feet, and stamping, in the pew on which I was leaning. Mr. Boardman was there, and Mr. James Latta. I was called here, to give evidence very unexpectedly.

Cross-examined by Mr. Hubbell. I turned and said, this was pretty conduct for clergymen; that they might hear what the gentleman had to read, though he was not a member. I am not a member of any church. I attend the First Presbyterian Church-Mr. Barnes's.

near.

By Mr. Preston. I knew but few of those near me. Mr. Boardman was two or three pews off, and so was Mr. William, or James, Latta. Mr. Finney, of New Castle Presbytery, was the nearest to me that I knew. My face was towards the Moderator, and I heard scraping among these gentlemen. Mr. Finney, I say, was the nearest: the others were not so I addressed those nearest to me, of whom, as I said, Mr. Finney was one. Mr. Boardman was a pew or two off. I knew those near me to be ministers. My observation was a general one: it was not addressed to Mr. Boardman, or to Mr. Latta, or to any one in particular. I don't recollect whether they were near enough to hear it. There was a tumult through the house. I was in the midst of the Old-school party. I can't saw that I knew more than a few individuals who sat near me. I understood that those near me were the Old-school. They generally acted with the Old-school party. I saw some there, who had acted with the Oldschool in 1837, as Mr. Latta. I think all near me were Old-school: as well as I could recognise them they were; but I am not positive about those whose names I did not know. There did not seem to be as much noise near Mr. Cleaveland, as there was about me. I should not call it a riot: there was scraping and coughing. I was twenty or thirty feet from Mr. Cleaveland, and the noise, generally, was in that part where I sat.

By Mr. Ingersoll. I don't know whether the aisles of the church, or the pews, were carpeted. I rather think there is a brick pavement.

By Mr. Preston. I went to the church just before Dr. Elliott closed his sermon, and entered from the grave-yard. My going to that quarter of the house was purely accidental; indeed, it was accidental that I went at all. I had some business up Market-street, and I merely stopped in as I was passing.

Mr. Randall. The Minutes show that Mr. Latta was a member of the Assembly, in both 1837 and '38.

Mr. Elihu D. Tarr-affirmed. My profession is the same as your own, (Mr. Randall's)-I am a member of the bar. I attended the organization of the Assembly of 1838. My location was three or four pews behind Mr. Cleaveland. I heard him put his motion, distinctly, and heard the ayes. I heard the question reversed, as I know, because I distinctly heard a few noes, rather to the north-west, and was surprised that the noes did not overwhelm the ayes. It had been intimated, as it was afterwards found, that the Old-school had a majority, and I was surprised that they did not vote the resolution down. It was from the south-west part of the house that the noes came. Did I say before the north-west?