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diminishes their own happiness, that roguery, injin this stage is cheered by the occasional visits every case, is a losing game. When we have of a teacher who gives him plain and practical dove this, and when we have placed the means instruction and who encourages every germ of of obtaining an honest living in their hands, we effort which he may put forth to attain to a better Day reasonably expect that our work will be understanding of his duties, and to a better reguaccomplished, and that our criminals will be re- lation of his conduct. He is in this stage under a turned to society better men and useful citizens. very rigid coercion, but there is still considerable Again, we have the large class whose crimes are scope left to him for the exercise and discipline attributable to feebleness of the will. In these of his volitions. He can violate the rule which cases the indication is to strengthen its power. imposes silence. He may fail to accomplish his The space-penetrating power of the sailor's and appointed daily task. He may waste the material the hunter's eye is enlarged by the constant upon which he is set to work. He may use abuuse of the organ; the muscles of the ballet sive language to his keeper or teacher. He may dancer's legs and of the blacksmith's arms are neglect personal cleanliness, and in several other enlarged and strengthened by constant exercise; ways ho may manifest a defiant and unsubdued the brain of the philosopher is enlarged in volume spirit. An accurate set of daily marks is kept and in power by babitual and vivid thought, and showing the exact progress of the prisoner in selfsuch is the universal law of nature. It is as truo control which it is the main object of this stage in the moral as in the physical world, and a of imprisonment to cultivate. When the prisoner course of moral gymnastics will be found as enters the solitary cell he learns that the duration efficient in invigorating the affections as physical of his imprisonment will be determined by his gymnastics are in increasing the force of the obtaining a certain number of marks. Every day muscles. The method to be adopted in these of perfect good behavior adds to the amount of Cases is not to subject the prisoner to a rigid ex. the marks. Every day of misconduct not only ternal coercion, which supersedes all necessity of gives no addition to the sum of marks, but in Folition on his part, and which actually paralyzes proportion to its malignity the marks already the small amount of will power that he actually accumulated are taken away. In this way the possesses, but he will be subjected at first duration of this penal stage is fixed by the prison. to small and nicely-graduated temptations, er himselt. If disposed to be rebellious, he can which, if yielded to, is met with immediate and indulge in his disposition as long as he likes, if he just punishment. As the prisoner gradually ac- desires to protract his term of discomfort, his quires the mastery over himself, under this pro- keeper is quite patient and allows him to do so, CES8, the temptations are increased and the process but after a while, when he sees one after another is continued until at last the power of resisting who entered the prison passing into higher and temptation is fully acquired. The practical modes less penal stages of imprisonment, the most hard. by which these objects are accomplished were ened and rebellious finally yield and set them. originally suggested by Captain Maconchie, but selves in good earnest for the first time to cultivate were greatly improved and simplified by Sir habits of obedience and self-control. When these Walter Crofton, under whose auspices the system habits are acquired, and not until then, he passes was brought into operation in the Irish prisons. into the second stage Here he is situated, The result in these prisons has for a series of in many respects, like the prisoners in our State years been 80 successful and so truly reformatory, prisons, he is confined in a solitary cell at night, even when applied to the very worst of men, that but during the day he works in association with it has overcome all opposition and has commended other prisoners. The utmost attention is paid in itself to the approval of all thinking men. Sir this stage to his moral and intellectual training. Waiter has recently been transferred to England, He is supplied with books of an interesting and where, under the full sanction of the gov- instructive character. The utmost care is taken ernment, he is gradually introducing the system to ascertain the weak points of his character, which has proved to be so saccessful in Ireland. which havo led him into crime, and the main The Irish system, as this is called, may be briefly stress of the instruction and discipline is directed described as follows: There are certain general to strengthen and vivify these weak faculties. featares in the plan which are applicable to all Competent teachers are employed to instruct him prisoners of all kinds, classes and idiosyncrasies, in all those matters which will fit him to acquit but these are modified with respect to intensity himself well in the battle for life by honest and and duration, so as to adapt themselves to the reputable methods. This stage is divided into specialties and individualities of each particular three classes, and the prisoner, on emerging from case. Every part of it is carefully adjusted to the penal stage, enters the third and lowest class. caktirate habits of self-control on the part of the His continuance in each of these classes is gradu. prisoner; his treatment is exactly determined by ated by his own progress; he must remain in his owo conduct, and he is thus, to a very con- each until he has acquired the amount of knowl. siderable extent, made the arbiter of bis own fate. edge and the system of habits which that class is Every prisoner passes through four separate designed to inculcate. If he is loug in doing stages, each stage being divided into steps. The this, his stay is long. If he does it quickly, he first stage is in the highest degree penal, and is soon rises into a higher class and remains in this an object of great dread to all classes. Each until he has fully acquired all that the discipline prisoner is conized in perfect solitude in a sepa. of that class is intended to accomplish, when he rate cell. He is kept constantly to the hardest enters the first or highest class, where the sanie labor, dressed in the coarsest raiment and fed on process is repeated. The powerful influence of the most unsavory food. Yet his solitude even Hope is thus brought into exercise. He has a definite object constantly before him, knowing, been most thorough, and all classes are convinced that good conduct will certainly work an amelio- of their reliability. With us crime is increasing. ration of his condition, he has a powerful motive In Ireland it is decreasing. With us, as we have for good conduct constantly operating on him. shown, our prisons do not deter men from the On the other hand, he knows that every act will commission of crime. In Ireland, they are really demonstrate that those changes in his character, a terror to evil doers and they furnish a real prówhich the discipline was intended to produce, tection to life and property. With us, our pris. have not been effected, and that it will be neces- ons are not reformatory, at least to any very sary to put him backward until the change is great extent. In Ireland, they are truly reformacompletely accomplished. His daily improvement ory. It is rare to find a man who has once gone or deterioration is admirably measured by a sys. through their discipline, who ever returns to tem of marks. If these show that the prisoner them again, they are better men when they leave is advancing, he is advanced; if he is going back them than they were when they entered them. ward, he is put backward. He cannot advance. Mr. Chairman, I suppose there can be no differuntil he has actually and permanently acquired /ence of opinion amongst us, with respect to our all the discipline, which the stage through which duty to provide the best guarantees in our power he is passing is calculated to coufer upon him. for the security of life and property in this State, At every advance his condition is improved, his and the reformation of our criminal classes. Can comforts are increased, he has a larger percent- any one doubt that a comparison between our sysage of his earnings credited to him, and he has a tem and that of Sir Walter Crofton shows the very greater area of personal privileges allowed to great and overwhelming superiority of the latter ? him. He is also subjected to greater templations, If we are agreed upon these points, then we can. and he cannot rise until he has acquired the not adopt the latter system without a change in power of resisting them. The third is called the our constitutional provisions. We must exclude intermediate stage because it is intermediate be all chance of those rapid changes which are now tween imprisonment and freedom. They are necessarily incident to every change in politics, under very little restraint, although they are care- and even to every change in the persons of the fully watched in this stage; they are not taken inspectors. The subordinate officers must be re. out in gangs, under keepers, but allowed to work cained so long as they perform theit du. on farms, in mechanical labor, on railroads or ties well, since every year will add to their canals, as may be desired, and are credited with ability. It will be seen at a glance that a large percentage of their earnings. The educa. unity of plan and purpose is indispensable to the tion commenced in the earlier stages is continued working of the scheme, and I think I have clearly through this; lectures on practical subjects by able shown that no board can possibly be held to a men are given to them daily. Examinations are strict responsibility, or can direct any compliheld weekly among themselves, which bring out the cated system which requires unity of purpose for mental acquisitions of each prisoner, and a small its successful prosecution. We have, therefore, part of their earnings is handed over to them, to choose between a truly reformatory system of which they can spend as they please, but which prison discipline and the plan of the majority, or they generally save carefully to be added to the one which will perpetuate the present admitted savings which are given to them when ike term evils and the plan of the minority. of their imprisonment is wholly accomplished. Mr. BELL- I would like to ask the gentleman It must not be forgotten that if the prisoner from Columbia (Mr. Gould) what has been the abuses his increased liberties, he may at any pecuniary success of the Irish system ? time be set back, one or two classes or a whole Mr. GOULD-I am not able to state. I was stage, from whence he must work his way back not able to obtain the figures in time so as to by the same slow and painful process as he did make a statement which could be verified by the before. When the prisoner seems to have ac- figures, but I think it has been a pecuniary sucquired the knowledge and the habits of self-conocess under Sir Walter Crofton. trol which fit him to mingle usefully with society, Mr. LAPHAM-I would ask whether the sys. he enters the fourth stage, in which he receives tem of punishment is uniform under the Irish a conditional pardon and a ticket-of-leave. He system, without any reference to the grade of is allowed to select his own place of residence the offeộse ? and his own occupation; but he is still under Mr. GOULD—The system is this: If a man the inspection of the police, and if at any time he commits an offense, a punishment is annered to is found to abuse his privliges, if be relapses into that. Suppose it is for six months. Now, a per. his old ways, if he is found without visible son who has only six months to serve, has not 80 means of support, or associating with suspicious many marks to gain. The number of marks is characters, his ticket-of-leave is withdrawn and graduated to the length of punishment. For in. he is returned either to the second or third stages stance, a man who has been guilty of a serious to work his way out as before. The practical re-crime, which would justify a large number of sults of the system have been most extraordi- years of punishment, would be required to get a dary. Experience has set its seal upon its value. greater number of marks, 80 that the system With us it is very dishcult to procure eroployment actually graduates itself according to the severity for such convicts as have given the best evidence of the offense. But the system is that no man of a desire to reform. In Ireland there is no shall go out of one department into another until class who can so easily obtain employment. The the moral and intellectual objects to be desired reason for this is, that with us the reformation in that branch are entirely gained. has not been tested. In Ireland the tests bave Mr. LAPHAN-Suppose it was a case of sen tence for imprisonment for life-what is the value does precisely what he likes without any interof the system in that case ?

ference whatever. I believe that there is also a Mr. GOULD—The value of the system in that board of prisons in Ireland; but they never intercase is that there is a special adaptation to the fered with Sir Walter Crofton. He has done precircumstances of the individual, and that is all cisely as he pleased. there is about it in that case. Our system is Mr. C. C. DWIGHT-I would like to ask twiform. Very bad and tolerably decent men are whether the board of prisons in Ireland did not not placed upon the same system exactly. There appoint Sir Walter Crofton to his position to ad. is a flexibility, an adaptation of the system to the minister the system of discipline of which he individualities of the case. Every man, whatever was the originator ? bis character, whatever his disposition, is not Mr. GOULD—My impression is that he was subject to precisely the same discipline, but there himself a member of that board. As he de. is an individualization.

veloped a special fitness and capacity for the Mr. HAND-I would ask if the punishment is work, the other members just stood aside and modified according to the good behavior in cases allowed him to carry out his views eatirely in his of imprisonment for life, or only in cases for a own way, so that the matter was practically series of years ?

managed by a single man. I believe I have preMr. GOULD—No, sir, in that case it is not so. sented all the views I desire. If we really do Mr. HAND—There is no encouragement, then ? desire to make a permanent advance, if we desire Mr. GOULD_The only case where it is is to do a genuine, philanthropic work, if we desire where the prisoner is committed for life, and that to have our prisoners converted into good men, I involves the adoption of a discipline according to see no way whatever of accomplishing it unless the particular circumstances of the individual. we change entirely the system which has been

Mr. KINNEY-I would like to inquire if the hitherto made use of, and unless wo carry out the decrease of the percentage of crime in Ireland is principles of responsibility, unless we have a man Dot greater than the decrease of population. Il to do the work who is specially adapted by the suppose the gentleman is aware that the popula- peculiar character of his mind and the peculiar tion there is decreasing largely.

education which he has enjoyed. Sir, gentlemen Mr. GOULD—It is slightly so. I only claim ask if I know of any man who could be trusted that there is this very marked difference between with this matter. I know of a man, I have him Ireland and other countries in regard to prison in my eye, and he does not belong to the same discipline. There is one peculiarity which gen. political party that I do either, whom I should be temen should not overlook-and that is that the perfectly willing to intrust with the control of men who come out of prison are eagerly sought this system, because I should be sure that he for as farm servants, because the discipline which would administer it with perfect humanity, and I they had undergone admirably fits them for an have no doubt he would do it with perfect suchonest and faithful discharge of the duty. I will cess. further remark that Sir Walter Crofton, who was Mr. BELL-I would ask the gentleman another the originator of this system, was 80 'successful question. Does the plan proposed by the majority in Ireland that he has now been transferred by of the committee propose to introduce the Irish the British Government to England, for the pur- system or any system? pose of introducing the system throughout the Mr. GOULD—It does intend to lay the foundalength and breadth of that kingdom. Now, sir, 1 tion for it. The Irish system will be introduced believe I have really finished all that I desire to by the Legislature if it is introduced at all.. All say. We cannot have this system administered we can do in the Constitution is to lay the foundaby a board. We may, it is true, nominally tion for the introduction of a system analogous to have a board. There is nominally a board which the Irish system. has charge of the penitentiary at Albany, but the Mr. BELL-It looks to that end. fact is that

Mr. AXTELL I move that the committee do Mr. C. C. DWIGHT-I would like to ask the now rise, report progress,

and ask leave to sit again. gentleman who it is that administers the system SEVERAL DELEGATES—No, no, no. of prison discipline? Whether it is the central The question was put on the motion of Mr. power that appoints the wardens, or whether it is Axtell, and, on a division, it was declared lost by the wardens

a vote of 12 ayes—the noes not counted. Mr. GOULD-If the gentleman is disposed to The CHAIRMAN andounced the pending ques. be nice upon this point, I will say it is the tion to be on the substitute offered by Mr. č. C. under-keeper who administers the discipline. Dwight, for the firsi section of the majority re

Mr. C. C. DWIGHT-I would ask if Amos port. Pillsbury is not responsible for the adminis. Mr. C. C. DWIGHT- If there is no other tration of the discipline in the Albany peniten. member of the Committee who desires to speak tiary?

upon the pending question, I desire to say a few Mr. GOULD—That is another thing altogether. words in reply to the gentleman from Columbia The gentleman did not ask me who was responsi- [Mr. Gould). ble; be asked me who it was that administered Mr. FOLGER-If the gentleman will allow the discipline, and I say it is the under-keeper. me, I will renew the motion that the committee As I was remarking, the Albany penitentiary is do now rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit Dominally governed by a board, but the fact is again. that Mr. Pillsbury is the sole dictator. The The question was put on the motion of Mr. board Dover interferes in a single instance. He Folger, and it was declared carried.

P. M.

Whereupon the committee rose and the PRESI. Mr. COMSTOCK-I respectfully dissent from DENT resumed the chair in Convention.

that view. I think we have a right to perfect Mr. S. TOWNSEND, from the Committee of the substitute before we vote upon it. the Whole, reported that the committee had had The CHAIRMAN—The Chair rules that it is under consideration the report of the Committee the right of the committee to perfect the propoon State Prisons, and the Prevention and Punish- sition before it is voted upon; and it therefore ment of Crime, had made some progress therein. entertains the amendment offered by the gen. but, not having gone through there with, had in- tleman from Steuben (Mr. Rumsey). structed their chairman to report that fact to the Mr. ALVORD--Does the Chair understand my Convention, and ask leave to sit again.

position ? My position is, that there is an atThe question was put on granting leave, and it tempt now, by the amendment of the gentleman was declared carried.

from Steuben, to amend the substitute offered by Mr. BARTO-I move that we adjourn until the gentleman from Cayuga (Mr. C. C. Dwight] Monday evening, at 7 o'clock.

before that has been accepted by the commitSEVERAL DELEGATES—No, no, no.

tee. The PRESIDENT-The Chair thinks that the Mr. C. C. DWIGHT-Do I understand that motion

an amendment has been offered to my ameudMr. HITCHCOCK-I move that we now ad. ment? journ.

Mr. RUMSEY—I withdraw my amendment, if The question was put on the motion of Mr. the gentleman wishes to speak upon the substiHitchcock, and it was declared lost.

rute he has offered. Mr. FOLGER-I move that we take the usual Mr. C. C. DWIGHT-I desire to ask the indul. recess, until 7 o'clock this evening.

gence of the committee for a few minutes, while The question was put on the motivu of Mr. I make some reply to the remarks of the gentle. Folger, and it was declared carried.

man from Columbia (Mr. Gould), the chairman of So the Convention took a recess.

he standing commitiee. I wish to preface this

reply by saying that in all that gentleman has EVENING SESSION.

said in regard to the weakness, the short-cominga The Convention re-assembled at seven o'clock aud the faults of the present system of manage

ment of our State prisons, I entirely concur with Mr. AXTELL—I ask for the calling of the him. I go as far as he goes on that question. roll.

And in all that he has said in regard to the neces. Mr. SEAVER-I move that the Convention do sity for a radical reform in the system of managenow adjourn.

ment at present existing in this State, I go as far The question was put on the motion to ad. as he goes. I will say further that in all that the journ, and, on a division, it was declared lost, by gentleman has said here this morning in eulogy à vote of five ayes; noes not counted.

of the Irish system of prison discipline, I go as The Convention then resolved itself into Com far as he goes. I think that system is a better mittee of the Whole, on the report of the Com- one even than the gentleman has represented it mittee on State Prisons, their care and mavage here. In many respects, in many of its deteils, I ment, Mr. S. TOWNSEND, of Queens, in the understand that it operates more favorably than chair.

the gentleman has represented. But I do not The CHAIRMAN announced the pending ques. propose to-night to discuss that system. I only tion to be upon the motion of Mr. C. C. Dwight desire to say that all that the gentleman has said to substitute the first two sections of the minor. in favor of the Irish system, makes for the plan ity report for the first section of the majority re- of prison organization which I have Nad the honor port.

to submit. The Irish system, although it may Mr. AXTELL-I move that the Committee not be in all its details eutirely conformable to rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit our institutions and our systems of government, again.

is yet, I believe, by far the most advanced, the The question was put on the motion of Mr. Ax. most philanthropic, the most enlightened system tell, and it was declared lost.

which is to-day in practical operation anywhere Mr. RUMSEY—I move to amend the section on the globe. I claim for the plan of organizaby striking out " five" as the number of the tion submitted by me, that it is the only plan of commissioners

, and inserting in lieu of it “ three;" organization which can be expected to secure the so that there may be three commissioners; the advantages of the Irish system, or any thing of tenor of their office being nine years, electing one equal value. I call the attention of this Conven. every three years.

tion to the fact that it is a dangerous thing to Mr. ALVORD– I rise to a point of order; that put at the head of this great system of prison diswe cannot amend the substitute offered by the scipline and management, a single man, who may gentleman from Cayuga (Mr. C. C. Dwight] be- ide a hobby other than the Irish system through cause it is not before us except in the shape of all these institutions. It is a dangerous thing to an amendment. It has not been passed upon by put in this place of power and responsibility one the committee. We must first take the question man, who may prefer the Irish system even to a on substituting it for the original proposition of better one. The Irish system is not necessarily the majority of the committee, which is the mat. the uitimate attainment of human wisdom upon ter now under discussion, and then we shall have this question. There may be improvements upon a right to amend it; but we have no right to even that system; and I should hesitate long to amend it before we adopt it.

put in the control of the prisons of this state, a

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and who might make a hobby of the Irish sys- kuow that behind the captain who commands the tem, and ride it through all these institutions, to ship stands the company of owners, or the directthe disparagement and neglect of a system which ors of the company, to direct all her voyages and night be a vast improvement upon it. But all her ventures. And we know that behind the that the gentleman has said on that point, his superintendent who runs the factory, stands the. whole argument, has made for the plan of board of directors of the company who own the organization which I have submitted. What I factory. I ask, who ever heard of a single man want, as I said in my opening upon that question, put over the captain of a ship, a single man put is a body of men of so much wisdom; so much over the superintendent of a factory, or a single experience, so much ability, that they can devise man put over the general of an army? That, as and institute the best system, whatever it is; I attempted to show in the outset of the discus. of discrimination sufficient to select from all the sion, is the weakness of the gentleman's plau, systems which are before the world the best sys. and there is no parallel for it. If these prisons tem, or to select the best features of the best constituted, in any sense, a unity, as an army is systems, ard to make a new one, if possible, composed of its parts as one whole, there would which shall be better than any now existing. be some force in it; but there is no such connecOne man cannot override the counsels of such tion. They are totally distinct and separate, and a body with a hobby. I go quite as far as the at the head of each of them both of our plans gentleman goes in advocacy of a single individual would place a warden, who should be made the responsibility in the management of these prisone. one sole responsible head of that institution. But where will you have that responsibility? I There is a good deal of force in the comparison insist that the only place to have it is in the of a prison to a factory, for a prison is a factory. warden, at the head of each of these institutions. It is more than that—it is a collection of factories, How is it to-day? Any man who lives vear a The prison at Auburn consists of six or eight State prison, or has had any experience or oppor- large manufacturing establishments, each of them tunity of observing them-I ask him where the employing from fifty to a hundred and fifty responsibility is now placed. With the very im. stalwart mechanics in various branches of me. periect authority lodged at present in the hands chanical industry, and they constitute a collecof the warden, the management of each prison is tion of manufacturing establishments. At the Fet in his hands, and rightly so. To-day the in. head of each is the keeper, who controls the disspectors appoint every officer of the prison, from cipline of the shop; in each is a foreman who the warden down to the guard that tends the directs the mechanical operations of the men; gate; and the warden has no power to remove and over the whole of these factories, thus 'assothese oficers, even for the grossest misconduct; ciated together, we place the warden, who per. and yet we now hold the warden responsible for sonally superintends and governs the whole. But tbe management of the prison. So it must always the prison is not merely a collection of factories : be, either under the system proposed by myself, it is a community of a thousand to sixtéen huner under that reported by the gentleman from dred humau beings, with interests and needs Columbia (Mr. Gould). We both give the warden physical, mental and moral, of great and presg. the appointment of his subordinate officers, and ing importance. I say that behind and over the the removal of any and every one of them at his warden, who governs that community, who is pleasure. Can there be any question, then, that absolute in his sphere as the head of that instituit will be the warden of the prison that will be tion, I would have a body of men who possess beld responsible for its management? Can there wisdom, intelligence, experience and philanthropy be any question that the warden ought to be held enough to know whether he discharges his duties responsible for its management? I observed that as he ought to do. The gentleman says he would the argument of the gentleman for a single indi. have an undivided responsibility; that he would vidual responsibility had its effect upon the com- make the superintendent responsible. I ask the mittee. I desire that it should. I desire it gentleman, responsible to whom? abould have the utmost effect; for that argument Mr.GOULD—The Governor and the Legislature. is in favor of the system I propose. As I said

Mr. C. C. DWIGHT-The Governor and the in the opening of this discussion, there is no such Legislature have no knowledge on the subject of thing as a system of prisons in the State of New the management of the prisons. The matter of York. Each of these prisons is as separate, in prison management is a science, distinct from the dividual, distinct and independent of all the rest duties of the Governor and the Legislature, and as one of the colleges of the State is distinct no man knows this better than the gentleman from every other similar institution in the State ; himself. The Governor and the Legislature have and I would as soon think of putting one man as no experience in the management of prisons. All President over all the colleges of the State as to that the Governor and the Legislature can do is put one man in control of all the prisons of the what the people can do-look at the balance. State. The gentleman asks, who ever heard of sheet and see whether there is a balance on the an army, or a factory, or a ship; put in charge of side of profit or of loss; and that is the least of a board ? I accept the gentleman's comparison. all the considerations which relate to this great We never did hear of an army put in charge of a subject of prison discipline and management. I board; but we do know that behind the general say that there should be an undivided, sole re. who comroands the army stands the President of sponsibility at the head of each of these prisone; tte United States, the commander-in-chief, with and then I would create this body of men of inbis board of counselors, his cabinet, to control telligence and experience, who should be comand direct the operations of the general. We do petent to exact a just responsibility from that

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