It was not so much to be wondered at, as lamented, that such a state of things, with such a prospect of amendment, while it proved with melancholy conviction the necessity of exertion, should have damped the spirit and almost extinguished the hopes of those who examined it. He should not, he said, have brought forward these details, if it had not been to contrast the result of them with the result of the returns which had been called for in the last session, upon which the message of his Majesty was grounded, and which presented the satisfactory picture of substantial improvement. These returns were imperfect, as none had yet been received from the dioceses of Norwich, St. Davids, Ely, and Rochester. The late period of the session at which the business was brought forward, was to be attributed to the expectation of receiving these returns in time to lay them before parliament. The total number of livings under 1501. per annum, in the 22 dioceses returned, was 3291. His noble friend, the secretary of state, had proposed to add one third for the four dioceses omitted, and this calculation appeared to rest upon grounds sufficiently probable. Comparing the whole number of livings (about 11,700) with the number in dioceses omitted and returned, and assuming that the same proportion of livings under 150l. per annum pervaded the whole, the number for the omitted dioceses would be 765. An addition of 332 to this number would make up one third of the whole number in the returned dioceses. It was conceived that this addition, would not much exceed the truth, as the livings in Norwich and St. Davids, were in point of value far below the level of the greatest part of the kingdam.

Taking, therefore, about 4,400, as the whole number of livings, under 1501. and proceeding upon the supposition that one third was to be added to each of the classes (which in the returns are divided from 10l. to 201. and so on) the number of livings now under 501. per annum was only 1,131. To raise these on the present bounty, to between 501. and 601. per annum, would require 437,4001. and a period of between 39 and 40 years. The improvement in the few of the church, compared with its appearance, according to the old returns, was (after allowing for the six

years elapsed since 1802) in point of time 157 years, in point of money required 1,621,8001. If this were our ul timate object, it would be some satisfaction to think, that the period of its accomplishment was so much less distant, and still more, that the sum required was so much less considerable, as to place the reduction of that period within the reach of a moderate exertion. But was it possible to stop bere, and to gratify ourselves with the notion that we were acting up to a sense of duty, and performing an essential service to the church, by providing less than the wages of a menial servant, for so namerous and so useful a class of ber ministers? Must we not raise our hopes at least as far as 100l.? The number of livings above 501. and under 100. was now 1,902. Here again the improvement of our prospects, with respect to the sum required, was great indeed. Upon the same principles of calculation, that sum is no more than 2,314,4001. The sum requisite, according to the old returns, was 5,597,0001, The saving, therefore, in point of money, was no less than 3,282,6001. But had we as encouraging prospects with respect to time? According to the old returns, the period was 508 years; according to the new, it was 210 years. When we came to count by centuries the difference, great as it was, vanished into nothing. It was hardly a satisfaction to think, that the benefit which we did not expect to accomplish in a period short of that which has elapsed since the Roman conquest, may be accomplished in about as many years as have elapsed since the reformation. He did not mean, however, to state, that in viewing an operation of this nature, which was to extend its effects over succeeding generations, and produce benefits, in every sense of the word, beyond the period of our lives, we ought to be deterred from the undertaking, even by the consideration of the remoteness of the result. Our ancestors had not been so deterred, and they had acted wisely. But he fattered himself, from the manner in which the proposal of the temporary measure of that day had been received by the house, and from the desire expressed, that it should be followed up by a permanent measure to the same extent, that parliament would not be satisfied with so remote a prospect, and that the tardy progres

Lord Erskine said, he trusted he had now made those amendments to the bill, which would render it less objectionable in the opinion of those noble lords, who, on a former day, had expressed their sentiments upon this intended measure. In that part of the bill which was now confined to beasts of draught and burden, he, had altered the words to "wound, cut, maim, and with wanton and malicious cruelty, should beat or abuse;" and he trusted the house would feel the propriety of inserting the word "abuse," coupled with the words preceding; because upon reflection, several acts of cruelty, requiring the interposition of such a statute would not easily be comprehended under any other term. "I, one day," continued Lord Erskine, "in going along Coventry Street, was struck with horror and disgust at the shocking scene of cruelty which presented itself to my observation. There was a cart loaded with greens to a most unmerciful extent, drawn by one horse. The poor animal was in such a state, that its skin alone covered its bones; and what was more shocking, upon nearer observation, I perceived there was no cart-saddle to prevent the chain from cutting through the skin of the animal's back; and upon still nearer inspection, I saw the blood and matter descending its side. Besides this, the fetlock joint was dislocated, the skin broken, and upon every exertion of this wretched creature, the bone was visible to the eye. My attention being peculiarly extended to the unhappy objects sufferings, I accosted the man who was driving the cart, upon his coming up to the place, and remonstrated with him about the misery of the horse's situation. I was answered with nothing but abuse; which generally is the fate of those who interpose their humanity on such an occasion. The man inquired if I would give him another? I offered him a guinea,

3

provided he would part with the horse. "Why," says the man, guinea, sir! I can work this horse three weeks longer, and after that I can sell him to the slaughter-house, and thereby make four or five pounds." I wish that your lordships would attribute to my conduct no more than the discharge of my duty; the act I performed, was, to my mind, unavoidable-I followed the man and purchased the beast!→ His lordship then stated there was another clause by itself, and by way of amendment, which he had framed for the better prevention of cruelty to other cattle, while proceeding to a fair or market, by means of cutting, maiming, or houghing. The house would be astonished if they knew all the cases which had been described to him by letters from magistrates, who particularly desired clauses to be inserted for the prevention of each particular case. I have seen with with regret the growing evil of cruelty to animals in this land, and have thought it expedient to introduce the bill before you.

The bill, as amended, passed thro' the committee, and it was ordered that the same be printed with the amendments.

Lord Sidmouth rose, in pursuance of his notice of yesterday, for the purpose of making his promised motion concerning the number of licenses granted under the toleration act. That statute of William and Mary, commonly called the toleration act, could not be too much ap preciated for the blessings which its liberality had conferred upon society.

The object of his motion would, he trusted, meet with equal appro bation from those people who enjoy. ed the benefit of that statute, as it could do from those who espoused the doctrines of the established church. Although he was one of those who hailed the blessing of to leration, yet, in reverting to the principle and meaning of that act, so

far as it concerned the granting of licenses to those who dissented from the doctrines of the church of England, it was very evident, considerable abuses had been practised, under its authority. It would be admitted by all, that some of those who applied for these licenses, did so for very improper purposes. Thus it happened, many, particularly at certain periods, obtained the licenses of a preacher, merely to free themselves from those claims which their country had on their services, and to which others were so generally liable. After animadverting on this point, he concluded by moving, "That a return be made from the Quarter Sessions of each county in England and Wales, of all licenses granted under the toleration act, from the year 1780 to 1809, specifying the grants of each year."

tion act.

Lord Harrowby rose in favour of the motion, but he would propose, as an amendment, that the returns should be made to a still more remote period; he would propose the motion should include this King's reign, and that 1760 be substituted for 1780. The Archbishop of Canterbury professed his high regard for the toleraFrom his own experience, in two dioceses, he was induced to believe the dissenters had increased very much, particularly in the last few years. One cause he conceived to be, the want of churches to contain the people; for the fact was, our population had far outgrown our machinery. He conceived the noble Viscount's object was, rather to aid another measure for bettering the situation of the clergy, than to found any direct proceeding upon the re

turn.

Earl Grosvenor expressed his thanks to the noble Viscount for having brought forward the present motion. The Lord Chancellor had a great regard for the toleration act; but the circumstances alluded to had of ten occupied his consideration. He

VOL. V.

was fully persuaded, many obtained those licenses, who, at the time they obtained them, did not mean to preach, but made use of that expedient merely for the purpose of avoiding those duties which every truly religious man would be anxious to discharge.

The motion was then put, and unanimously agreed to.

Saturday, June 3.

The royal assent was given, by commission, to the loan bill, the life annuities amendment bill, the Irish militia completion bill, the American trade bill, the Martinique trade bill, the Irish beer bill, the printers' indemnity bill, the Vauxhall bridge bill, and other bills; in all, public and private, 51.

Adjourned till Tuesday.

Tuesday, June 6.

Lord Ellenborough, on moving to postpone for three months the second reading of the Feversham small debts bill, took the opportunity of calling the attention of the house,to the mischief which resulted from the number of bills that had been passed for erecting courts for the recovery of small debts, where, instead of cheap justice, cheap injustice was dispensed! It would be infinitely preferable to legislate in this respect upon some general principle which should apply to the whole kingdom; and with this view, a noble and learned friend of his had it in contemplation to bring in a bill to render the county courts efficient for this purpose, and to extend their power in cases of debt to five pounds.

The Earl of Darnley defended the

holders to be on juries in the county courts, which would prevent the measure from being burthensome to the counties.

The Earl of Moira expressed his satisfaction at the notice given by the noble and learned lord.

The bill was ordered to be read a second time this day three months.

Wednesday, June 7.

On the order of the day for the third reading of the LOAN INTEREST CHARGE BILL

Lord Sidmouth thought it his duty to call the attention of their lordships to this important subject, considering as he did the present measure as a departure from the principle of finance, established at the commencement of the war, and as highly injurious to public credit. His lordship entered into a detail of the financial measures resorted to by his own administration at the commencement of the present war, by the administration of Mr. Pitt, and the late administration, to shew the manner in which the sinking fund and war taxes had been made to operate, and that the leading principle had been to diminish the expenditure, and increase the income of the country. The conduct of the present administration, on the contrary, coupled with the present measure, tended to increase the expenditure and diminish the income. The expenditure had increased no less than 9,000,0001. in the course of the last two years, whilst by the present bill the income of the country would be diminished by one million of that amount. He could not conceive a system more ruinous or more pregnant with danger to the vital interests of the country, which might be deluded by the shew of not imposing any new taxes; but we could not delude the enemy: he must see that thus mortgaging the war taxes, we were adopting a principle which must in the course af a certain period entirely exhaust aur resources, and

render us incapable of continuing the contest!

The Earl of Liverpool contended, that the noble Viscount was in error, in supposing that the annual expenditure during the war could be limi ted to any definite sum. This, from the fluctuation of circumstances, and varying prices of articles necessary for our equipments, was impossible. He regretted, as much as the noble viscount, the great increase in our expenditure; but circumstances had arisen, which had necessarily caused that increase. The objections he had to the plan of the noble lord op posite (Lord Grenville) were first, that it proceeded upon the assumption of a certain definite annual ex penditure during the war, which was absolutely impossible; and secondly, that it was a breach of faith towards the public creditor in the new sinking fund, which would be created, and a bonus would be given at a time when it was not wanted, whilst, when it could be useful, it would not be forthcoming. In the last year there was no necessity for resorting to new taxes, with some trifling exceptions, the falling-in of the annuities and other sources having furnished nearly sufficient means for defraying the interest of the loan and the one per cent. In the present year, ministers had resorted to the mode now proposed of pledging 1,000,0001. of the war taxes to defray the interest of the loan; but he wished it to be distinctly understood, that this was not part of a system, and that the subject remained completely open for consideration.

Lord Grenville said, he felt it an irksome task on the present occasion to call their lordships' attention to the subject of finance at this late period of the session, when the at tendance was so thin, and when he he had to address nearly empty benches! He doubted whether any who now heard him were at all aware, that the object of the bill