Earl Grey not having sufficient information upon the subject, did not mean to give any opinion upon the specific points mentioned in the message, but thought it his duty generally to observe, that every day's experience served to shew the necessity of that line of conduct which he had before suggested, namely, to husband and reserve our resources, in order to provide for that period when we must largely draw upon them for our own defence!

The Earl of Liverpool stated, that the message was the usual message for a vote of credit previous to the close of a session, and that the amount of the vote which it was intended to ask of parliament was 3,000,0001. in order to enable government to take advantage of circumstances as they arose, and to render assistance to our allies, according to the nature of those circumstances and the exigences of the case.

After a few words from the Earl of Suffolk, the motion was agreed to. Lord Sidmouth, wished to be informed whether it was intended to make any communication to parliament respecting the state of our relations with AMERICA?

Earl Bathurst said the negociation being still pending, it was not intended to make any communication to parliament. The arrangement which had been entered into between his Majesty's minister in America and the government of the United States, was unauthorised, the former having made concessions without demanding any of those conditions, the compliance with which ought to have been made the basis of granting such concessions!

Lord Sidmouth asked, if he was then to consider that the arrangement made by his Majesty's ministers in America as wholly unauthorised?

Earl Bathurst answered in the afArmative.

Earl Grey thought from the expression used by the noble earl that some instructions had been given to

Mr. Erskine to make certain conces sions, which the latter might have misunderstood, From the arrangement as published in the newspapers, it seemed as if the measures adopted had been preconcerted, for every thing followed in such order, and rule, that it was almost impossible to believe, but what Mr. Erskine, of whose ability he had the highest opinion, conceived that he was acting strictly according to his instructions. It must be evident, that by the disavowal of this arrangement, the difficulties in the further negotiation with America would be materially increased, and when knoun in America, it might give rise to some imputations against the character and good faith of this country, under the impres sion that a trick hud been resorted to for the sake of obtaining a little temporary advantage for ourselves! A fearful responsibility, therefore, rested upon ministers, and though the subject could not yet be discussed, yet the day must come, when, for the satisfaction of the country, and, when in justice to the gentleman, whose conduct was now so severely reflected upon by the disavowal of this arrangement, the documents relating to it must be laid before parliament, and the conduct of ministers become the subject of discussion.

The Earl of Liverpool agreed that the disavowal of this arrangement must necessarily increase the difficulties in the negociation with America; but that could not be imputed to ministers, as in making that ar rangement, Mr. Erskine had not only acted unauthorised by his instructions, but in direct contradiction to his instructions; he thought it necessary to state this distinctly, as the noble earl appeared to have misunderstood his noble friend. Care would be taken in the order, which would appear as soon as the course of business would allow, and those vessels, which, in the mean time had sailed in conse quence of the confidence reposed in the

conduct of the commissioners, [See Pol. Rev. for April p. lvii. Note] and stated their names, viz. JAMES CRAUFURD, JOHN BRICKWOOD, ALLEN CHATFIELD, and ALEXANDER BAXTER. These gentlemen were associated in this commission as 'fellow labourers of JonN BOWLES, a member of the society for the suppression of vice, or for pilfering the public. It appeared by the report, that no remuneration bad been stipulated for the commissioners. This defect, however, they took upon themselves to correct, and charged a commission of 5 per cent. upon the gross proceeds of the property confided to them, amounting in four years to above eighty thou sand pounds. The next point he had to notice was, that they kept no regular account of the monies that came into their possession, and this point proved the government to have been more criminal than the commissioners, in suffering this neglect, and not calling for an account. The commissioners had good reason for not rendering any account, because by the first transaction, they secured to themselves a commission of 25,000l.; and this conduct they had adopted, after the violent abuse which Mr. BOWLES had launched against all those who had neglected to give fair returns under the property tax act. The act under which the commissioners were appointed, required that they should lodge their money in the bank of England; yet, by the report it appeared, that they had, on the contrary, kept large sums at their private bankers'. The next point which the committee had animadverted upon was equally reprehensible, namely, the amount of balances which the commissioners kept in hand, and which amounted at one period to 200,000l. and during the whole of the latest period was never less than 50,000l. It appeared, that in 1796, a period of great public difficulty, the late Mr. Pitt applied to the commissioners for an advance of any money they might have on hand, in aid of the exigency of the moment; and though they had 190,000l. at the time in their possession, they told Mr. Pitt they could afford him no assistance. It was the opinion of the committee, that these balances, and the interest arising from them, should be carried to the account of the public; had they been vested in exchequer bills, there might have been a saving from 40 to 50,000l. By the

act, the commissioners were directed to make minutes of their proceedings; no minute, however, was made of these balances; and for the obvious reason, that it might lead to the detection of the improper use to which they were applied. During the last ten years, the members of this commission had found time to do much other business. Mr. Bowles had been very active in several elections, which had taken place within that period, and had besides written thirty pamphlets. Mr. Brickwood, too, appeared by the report to be at this moment a commissioner for Spanish property. But it had been said, that these gentlemen had some of them abandoned their professsions, for the purpose of attending more particularly to the duties of the commission. They were not the first persons who had abandoned a profession for something better. An hon. member, whom he did not then see in his place, the secretary to the admiralty, had also abandoned his profession for a thousand a year! This brought him to notice another case, that of the American commissioners, adverted to in the report, which appeared to him to be a palpable job. Mr. Thomas M'Donald, it appeared, got 50001. for abandoning his profession to become an American commissioner, and that in addition to a salary of 1500l. per annum. He could see no reason why such a sum of the public money should be given to any person to abandon his profession, when several thousands of persons could be procured to do the duty as well, for the bare salary. Mr. BowLES also must have a consideration for abandoning his profession; and the house had no difficulty to appreciate the means he had taken to secure that consideration. This gentleman afforded a good specimen of an anti-jacobin-the culogist of existing power-the defender of present establishments—the denouncer of all who may condemn ubuses, or call for reform, as vile jacobins. These tricks would no longer impose upon the public-the mystery was discovered-Mr. John Bowles himself bad let out the secret, and the reign of imposture and delusion was at an end. It was this neglect that produced all the infamous transactions which had lately been brought to light. It was a bounty to roguery, and an encouragement to abuses. Negligence of this description,

and a profligate profusion in the public expenditure, had been peculiarly characteristic of the dministration under which these commissioners had been appointed. The hon. gentleman concluded with moving his first resolution:

"That it appears to this house, that to commit pecuniary trusts to any persons whatever without having established suficient checks-without calling for regular and periodical accounts or without bringing those accounts to any settlement in a long series of years, is a neglect which must lead to the most prejudicial consequences, and a violation of the obvious duty of the government."

The other resolutions in substance stated,

"That such neglect on the part of government had been proved by the matters contained in the fourth Report of the committee of Finance; that the commissioners had taken to themselves large sums of the public money, which they ought to be compelled to refund; that all their accounts should be sent to the auditors of public accounts to be passed; and that no remuneration should be given to the commissioners till their accounts shall have been pas

On the question being put on the first resolution,—

Mr. H. Thornton felt it necessary, as chairman of the committee which had made the Report, to state, that he most cordially concurred in every part of that Report. He had thought, how ever, that the practice was, when a Report of this description was laid be fore the house, to wait a short time before any proceeding should be instituted upon it in the house, in order to ascertain whether any steps were taken by government pursuant to the recommendations of the Report; and upon this point he trusted his Majesty's ministers would state what steps they bad taken.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, he was prepared, without any call, such as that made by the hon. gentleman who had just sat down, to communicate to the house the measures that had been taken by the treasury with respect to this Report. When gentlemen considered that it was only on the 25th of March that the Report had been presented to the house; that

VOL. V.

some delay had taken place in the printing of it; and that it was not in the hands of gentlemen till within a fortnight of the time when notice of this motion was given, they would not think it surprising that no measures had been taken by the treasury before the notice of this motion had been given. The hon. gentleman himself, would, he hoped, now that he was in possession of the uniform practice of the house in such cases, withdraw his motion; but if he should not, it was his intention to move the previous question upon the resolutions.

The previous question being put, Sir John Newport would not cousent that this motion should be withdrawn,. or disposed of by the previous question. After commenting for some time with much severity of animadversion upon the conduct of the commissioners, the hon. baronet concluded by stating his intention, when these resolutions should be disposed of, to move an address to his Majesty, to order the attorney general to prosecute these commissioners for malversation in the execution of their trust..

Mr. Rose stated, if any blame was imputable to any government, it undoubtedly must be to that government which existed when these commis. sioners had been appointed. To him personally, if any blame was imputable to any one, it might he said to attach. But as to what had been stated by the hon. gentleman who opened this business, relative to any leaning he might be supposed to have towards one of these commissioners, he could assure that hon. gentleman, that he knew as much of that person, and was as well acquainted with him as he was himself. And what was more, he could assure him, that he had never read any of his pamphlets, though he would allow, that they were regularly laid upon his table. He trusted, however, that the neglect was not of such, a character in this instance, as to induce the house to adopt the resolution of censure upon the government, proposed by the hon. gentleman.

Mr. Whitbread admitted, that the right hon. gentleman who had just sat down, following the example of a noble colleague, on a recent occasion, had made a decent defence. Whatever might be the feelings of either when committing the acts for which they

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were brought to trial, they must be allowed to have behaved with great decency when brought to the place of execution. As to the transaction developed in the report of the committee, he thought the house was bound to mark with the finger of reprobation the nefarious practices thus brought to light to mark particularly with reprobation, that maif, who, if not the favourite of the treasury, had been the uniform libeller of all those who opposed the treasury. A great smoke had for a long time been issuing from this Dutch commission; reports had frequently been in circulation respecting the abuses of these commissioners, and the corrupt job of their commission; but yet no one would have supposed, that when the whole should be disco vered, such a blaze would have burst

out.

These commissioners had been guilty of gross prevarication in their evidence before the committee, and had endeavoured to withhold from the committee and the public, by such means, the real state of their criminal conduct. He was anxious to call the attention of the house, but more particularly of one hon. gentleman, (Mr. Wilberforce), to this conduct on the part of a man who set himself up as a Cato of the day, as the censor, for public manners. The man he alluded to was JOHN BOWLES. If that man bad any feeling, he must be sensible that no greater censure could be passed upon him than the declaration of the right hon. gentleman opposite, that, though his pamphlets were regularly sent to him, he had never read a line of them! It appeared, that in 1796, a period of great public exigency, Mr. Pitt applied to these commissioners for assistance, by which he might be enabled to defer or diminish the supplies necessary for the service of the year. Yet though they had at that time one hundred and ninety thousand pounds in their possession, they declined affording the assistance he solicited on behalf of the public. It should not be forgotten, that one of these commissioners was a life-and-fortune man—a man that would spend his last shilling, and shed the last drop of his blood in support of the state. This man, who talked so much of the sacrifices that should be made in support of the government, was the person who, having a large sum of public money in his hands, refused to

advance it for the urgent accommodation of the service of that public whose property it was. What course then was to be adopted? They should have a bill of discovery against these commissioners; they should untruss these Dutchmen, and take to the very last farthing of the public money which they may have in their possession, This was the conduct of him who was represented as the Christianus Laicus, who would travel into the regions of the dead in search of victims to be lacerated. It was not his intention to follow the example of that person who had penetrated to the silent sanctuary of the tomb, and followed an illustrious victim to the grave; where, had he been a christian, he would not have intruded, to calumniate, upon unfounded and often disproved rumours, the unsullied character of the late Duke of Bedford.

He hoped that his hon. friend would not consent to withdraw his motion, and that the hon, baronet would persevere in his declared intention to move afterwards for an address to his Majesty, to order a prosecution against these parties by the attorney general. One of these gentlemen was himself so forward in crimination, that he could not expect his own guilt to pass off with impunity. That person could look back into ancient history in search of a name, and dare to designate a member of that house by that nameClodius. He had been in the constant habit of applying to those he calumniated the term jacobin, and that at a time too when the idea conveyed by the term jacobin, was that of a man who would overturn the government, and imbrue his hands in the blood of his Sovereign. Mr Bowles had written many excellent passages, in various of his publications, which would forcibly and justly apply to his own case. He never can read his own books again without learning his own shame. Why, he would ask, had five commissioners been appointed, when the act contained but three? Was it that some provision should be made for Mr. Bowles for his services in the anti-jacobin newspapers in which, a person filling a high situation abroad, (Mr. Frere) and a secretary of state in that house, rad been fellow labourers with him. Mr. Bowles was a member of a sect of the strictest observance he was a Pharisee. He