They had at this moment an act which did not expire for six weeks after the next session of parliament. They were thus guarded against granting further reversions in the mean time, and in the course of next week they would have a report under consideration, the effect of which would go to determine, whether any of these offices should be abolished. He considered our constitution was now most perfect; we should therefore beware of those specious arguments of reform, which might have the effect of causing us to lose what we at present enjoyed? He only wished the house to pause. There was sufficient time during the next session even to think of this bill, if it should be deemed necessary. Mr. Bankes, Lord H. Petty, and Mr. Tierney, supported the notion., The latter observed, that those in power, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer in particular, seemed to get bolder and bolder every day against reform. He would advise him and his colleagues to abandon such a coursehe would seriously advise them not to treat too lightly the heat of the people. Why was the Chancellor of the Exchequer so strenuous against reform? Why did he not endeavour to retrench unne cessary expences, useless offices? A noble relation of his (Lord Arden) held a situation, or indeed two situations, whereof the proceeds were 35,000l. a year; of which, for the collection, 23,000l. was expended, and in whose hands for the last 17 years, an annual balance of 200,000l. remained. He would support the motion as tending to diminish the too great influence of the crown, and to reduce the unnecessary expenditure of the public money. The Chancellor of the Exchequer explained the allusion made to his noble relation's offices; the balance did not remain in his hands, it was lodged in the bank. Mr. Whitbread commented on the surprising silence with which ministers were afflicted all of a sudden; it was one of their periodical fits. He remembered, indeed, one occasion on which a plain blunt man, telling a plain blunt story, produced a splendid tirade from the right hon. gentleman opposite; but now he seemed completely dumb. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had, indeed condescended to give his opinion on the subject, and what had he said; Why, indeed that this hill would produce keys, it was said, could speak if they Mr. Canning did not see what right he had to be called on to speak unless he chose it; it was a subject on which he thought he was entitled to use his own discretion; he had voted in favour of the suspension bill, when it was first brought forward; he had voted for its remaining in effect to next session, and he did not speak now, because he did not wish to interrupt the progress of a bill for the continuance of which he had formerly voted. He stated the arguments of those in favour of and against reversions; and, without saying which opinion he himself held, he defied any mar. in existence, with all his ingenuity, to affix a stigma to them who held either: he said he bad never heard the story which had been applied to the Lord Chancellor, and without meaning any disrespect to Mr. Whitbread, he did not believe it, He should vote against the motion. The question being loudly called for a division took place-For the motion, 106. Against it, 121. Tuesday, April 25. Lord A. Hamilton said it was necessary in order to support the character of the house, that impartial justice should be administered to persons of every rank. Certain individuals had recently been punished for improper acts, and it was due to them and the country, that delinquents of a higher class should not escape a merited chastisement. [Here his lordship detailed the case, as it appeared from the evidence given before the committee of finance as it related to Lord Castlereagh's attempt to procure a seat in parlia ment for Lord Clancarty, through the agency of the broker Reding, by means of a writership.]-Now, said his lordship, is it possible, when the resolutions of the house against bribery are in force, to guard against their infringement, if peers were thus to trample upon the laws? How can this house punish subordinate men, when two persons high in office are thus acting? The high official rank of the noble lord should alone have led him to act otherwise, He was also a servant of the crown, and was bound to protect the government in its reputation and dignity; but while he filled the office of president of the board of controul, where it was a part of his duty to prevent and punish such corrupt practices, that very time he chose for entering into this corrupt negociation. The charge which he brought against the noble lord was that he had abused his patronage, in direct opposition to the declaration required to be taken by the India directors, which enjoins, "that the party using the patronage had not received any pecuniary compensation, nor any thing convertible into pecuniary benefit." The house must feel indignant at such an attack on its independence, an attack made - for the worst of purposes. For his own part, he believed that Reding was connected with both the noble lords (Clancarty and Castlereagh). In 1806, previously to the change in administration, a Mrs. Grove intimated to the noble lord (Castlereagh) that she could furnish him with facts relative to certain abuses. The noble lord informed her, that if she would wait upon him and disclose the facts, he would lend her his aid, but he never saw her, and no exposition ever took place. Did this conducte agree with the noble lord's assertion, that he was desirous to correct abuses? No; he knew that by exposing others, he must cer tainly expose himself. This, then, was the case, and a more flagrant one never came before parliament: If the house did not visit it with a becoming censure, it may as well shut its doors for ever. A short time since, the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Perceval) stated, that he had in consequence of repeated advertisements for the sale of offices, lodged a sum of money in the hands of a third person, to entrap those advertising place brokers; and the trap had successed. Now, if this trap had been set to its proper use, how surprised would the learned gentleman have been, to find that it had caught the noble lord and some of his friends !—and, upon examina nation to discover that three were taken in the trap-two of his colleagues, and a noble peer!-What must be the feelings of the public to learn, if neither punishment nor censure was passed, and that subordinate individuals were punished, while acts of flagrancy in a servant of the crown were passed by !-With respect to the defence of the noble lord, he was not prepared to conjecture what possible defence he could set up. If he should in answer hear that he had done no more than others had done before his time, that was no answer to the charge. If censure had been passed by the house for former wrong doing, then perhaps this case would not have happened. Much of the evils complained of with respect to the disposal of seats in this house had arisen from the indifference and sluggishness of the house in censuring conduct so flagrant. The noble lord concluded with moving "That the evidence taken before the committee on East India abuses, of Lord Viscount Castlereagh, the Earl of Clancarty, Mr. Reding and Mr. Davies, be now read." The evidence having been read, Lord Castlereagh expressed his regret that any act of his should have occasioned such a discussion as the present. He could assure the house, that he had not lent his sanction to any transaction that he imagined would prove at all injurious to the interests of government, or the authority of parliament. With respect to any thing that had passed between Reding and himself, it never had occurred to him, that in fluence of a nature improper would be used. The specific consideration for the surrender of the seat was to have been the gift of the writership which remained in his hands, undisposed of, to his friend Lord Clancarty. He had understood from Reding, that there was a member desirous of vacating his seat, with a view to obtain for either a son, or a nephew, an appointment to India. Now he was ready perfectly to agree, that nothing could mark greater turpitude in any minister than employing such a man as Reding to procure a seat in parliament. He certainly looked to the period in which be bad held the conversation with Reding, with feelings of great personal regret. He had also to assure the house, that until lately he did not know that such persons as those of the description of this man existed in society! He did not know that there were such persons in exis tence as trafficking brokers! Reding had written to him, urging that he knew a friend who would resign his seat in parliament. If that offer, or indeed any offer was unaccompanied with any considerations partaking of improper influence or corruption, the noble lord did not see that any person was justified in challenging a treaty which professed on its basis fairness. He did assure the house, that in this light he was induced to view the offer made by Reding; he considered him merely as a person sent for an answer to the offer, although that person had chosen to say in his evidence that he had passed more time in conver sation, than he (Lord C.) was conscious of. He wished to ascertain the person desirous of retiring from parliament, and that was the only motive which induced him to permit the interview. Under no other impression could he have consented to it. The result of the application was, that Lord Clancarty wrote to him (Lord C.) saying that he should not have any occasion to make use of the writership, as the negociation" had been put an end to. He was disposed to admit, that if it had gone on, he should have consented to bestow it on the son or nephew of the person vacating his seat, from an idea that if my Lord Clancarty could have obtained a seat in parlia ment, from his general knowledge of business, and being at the same board with himself, much benefit would have accrued to the public service. If there ever was a transaction which did not attach upon it a degree of turpitude, this was the transaction. As to the idea of the introduction of money in the exchange, that never was in contemplation; besides, the personal characters of the parties forbid the suspicion. It was indeed physically impossible that a pecuniary motive should have produced the offer. Undoubtedly Reding was a man who had, as it had since appeared, built his hopes upon a variety of sales of this kind. Of this bs was perfectly sure, that as far as Lord Clancarty was concerned, he was free from the imputation of being apprised of Reding's views. No one would contend that a man of respectability and free from corruption might not find his way into parliament by such means, without endangering the constitution. A most essential feature in this mode of introduction, in preference to the representative of wealth, was the facility with which it opened the door to the seating of men of study, of practical knowledge, and of extended information, a mode far more preferable than the introduction of men of local knowledge only, and of merely popular habits. The benefits which the state must necessarily derive, must be great, and much more than compensate for the absence of popularity. In the situation in which he stood as a minister of the crown, though he should not attempt to contend that he could have exercised his influence to controul any individual person, yet he should contend that it was not only competent to him, but even that it was his 'duty to exercise that influence which his official situation gave to him, to be conferred upon such person or persons, who could support the government upon liberal principles. Looking, therefore, to the degree in which a minister might use his patronage to that extent, nothing at the same time should induce him to contend before that house, nor did he before the committee attempt to offer any justification on that principle, nor in strictness could be feel himself justified in signifying to Lord Clancarty his assent to a disposal of a writership, for the purpose before mentioned. He had shewn the house, that he was not disposed to deny any principle ta ken upon the broad extent, because he was ready to admit, that although upon this there was no corrupt intention, yet, if the principle was wrong, he admitted that he was not justified by that principle. He did not wish the house to say that he had acted rightly; but could he have acted under the influence of turpitude, he should have declined making any defence to this charge. But if, on the other hand, when it was considered what a minister could do with his patronage, the question might be considered in another point of view, where no influence had taken place upon an election of a member to serve in parliament, where it was a mere conversation with Lord Clancarty upon the subject, where the transaction was never completed, he might have, under many circumstances, and at any time afterwards, altered his opinion,-nor was there any thing in the evidence of Mr. R. to shew that it was at all or near being carried into effect; he would ask the house if they thought him so mad as to risk his character, bis situation as a minister of the crown, and all that he held dear to his honour and principles, to commit himself in such a way, with such a person as Mr. Reding turned out to be? His object was simply to oblige a private friend; nor could the house for a moment suppose, that he would so far forget himself as to commit such a breach of the privileges of parliament, as would bring him before that house for their severe censure. He contended, not merely that no injury could be actually done to that house, but that it was actually impossible that the case could have existed upon which the transaction could have been effected. Having, he trusted, explained to the house the view which he had of this subject, he had no more to add, but to express his sincere regret that having inadvertently given an. authority, merely because he was antious to have his noble friend in par liament, he should have been liable 46 losophy what follows; but when charges of corruption are brought against a member of that house, which may compel him to go into retirement, would any man say that it is not the severest punishment which that house could inflict upon him? He trusted, however, that the house would express its sound judgment, and do justice equally to the individual and to the public. The noble lord concluded by moving, "That the other orders of the day be now read." were passed by, it was as much as to Lord A. Hamilton again rose, and Mr. Wynne knew that similar moved the following resolutions:- practices had before existed, and "1. That it appears to this house, that many offenders had escaped ; "from the evidence upon the table, but when the matter was thus clear"that Viscount Castlereagh in the yearly brought home by evidence, if it 1805, he having just quitted the of"fice of president of the board of con"troul, and being then a privy councillor and secretary of state, had 64 placed at the disposal of Lord Clancarty, a member of the said board, "the appointment of a writership in "India, for the purpose of thereby "procuring the said Lord Clancarty a "seat in this honourable house, " "2. That it was owing to disagreement among other subordinate parties "to the transaction, that this corrupt "negociation did not take effect. "3. That Viscount Castlereagh had been, by the said conduct, guilty of a violation of his duty as a servant of "the crown; of an abuse of his in "fluence and authority as president of "the board of controul; and also, that "he was guilty of an attack upon the purity and the constitution of this "honourable house." น The question being put on the first resolution, Lord Binning was disposed to defend his noble friend upon parlia mentary principles; and although it was evident that his noble friend was not actuated by a malus animus, yet the resolution of the noble lord must draw upon him a censure which none but a man guilty of an enormous crime could merit. It may be said that dismissal from office is not a sufficient punishment, and that great men must bear with phi. VOL. V. say, that any person in office might go to market with his patronage. There were, he knew, many in the house who maintained that there was no harm in bribery, and that a seat in that house was not vitiated by being obtained by money; but as acting under the act of parliament, they must feel it their duty to conform to the law. For his part, he agreed in the spirit and letter of the resolution of 1799, by which no minister of the crown could influence the election of members of that house, without being guilty of breach of privilege. He therefore wished that a censure should pass. Mr Croker contended that the thing had become familiar by custom, and when it was discovered could only be considered as a venial of fence. This was what must be admitted by all. Without entering into detail he would rest his vote on what his noble friend had himself stated. His conduct was not altogether justifiable, for he could not say that it was not wrong. He meant that his noble friend had successfully contended, that his offence was not of the darkest die, but that it was a middle sort of offence. therefore wished that a middle course He |