Which of those kinds of fish are the best calculated for the consumption of the great population of the West Indies ---British herrings, when they can be obtained on fair and reasonable terms, are most in use, and generally preferred in the island of Jamaica; they are better calculated to keep for a considerable length of time in a hot climate; and in several other respects, I hold them to be better adapted for the use of the colonies than the pickled fish which is generally obtained from America; I believe, also, that the negroes themselves give them a preference.

Do you know the quantity of British herrings which have for these three or four years past been exported to the West Indies ---I do not know the quantity of British herrings which have been exported to the West Indies; but I believe of late years the quantity has not been so great as it previously had been, owing to the very high price at which they have arrived, and the great difficulty in some cases of procuring them at all.

What has been the usual price during the period of three years?. From thirty to forty shillings per barrel, seldom so low as thirty; I recollect when they were furnished at from eighteen to twenty or twenty-one per barrel.

Can you state the black population of the West India colonies? I cannot with any degree of accuracy, but should compute the black population not short of 500,000.

Taking that estimate as correct, what quantity of herrings do you think it would require to supply the consumption?-If the price was such as the planter could afford to pay, I should calculate that not less than 180,000 barrels would be taken; from that to 200,000.

Are you sufficiently acquainted with the state of the British fishery to mention to the committee, whether or not it is capable of giving an adequate supply for the purpose of the West Indian consumption? ...What the British fishery may be capable of supplying, I am not competent to say; but I know at times we have had difficulty in obtaining the quantity of herrings we had orders for, for the West Indies. Withdrew.

Sabbati, 16° die Julii, 1807.

ALEXANDER HENRY, Esquire, called in, and examined.

Mr.

Hughan.

WHAT is your connection with the West Indies, and what means have you had of being acquainted with the colonial trade?--I have Mr. been in trade in Jamaica for twenty-two years; I have been connected Henry, with the other iflands likewise, but principally with Jamaica.

In the case of a suspension of direct intercourse with the American States, do you conceive there would be means of obviating the inconveniences likely to result to the British colonies from the interruption of that intercourse ?--I should think there would.

What means occur to you?--The supply which the British colonies in North America could furnish, I believe, is very great, though they do not come within my knowledge; but in case of extremities, the Americans would admit of very large supplies being furnished from their ports by means of neutrals.

Are you able to speak to the mode of supplying the various articles

Mr.

Henry. which are requisite for the supply of the West India colonies ?---I certainly am not prepared to give a detail; the quantities of salted and dried provisions are very considerable which go to Jamaica alone, from the different ports of the United States of America, as well as the British colonies; the trade of the British colonies has of late been very much interrupted in consequence of the trade being carried in American ships from their own ports since the

year 1793.

Do you conceive that interruption has injured the means the British colonies would otherwise have had of supplying the West India islands?---Yes; in war it almost amounts to a prohibition, the expence is so great of navigating the British ships, and the insurance is so high.

Does it come within your knowledge, by what means the British West India islands were supplied with provisions during the American war?---I was not in the island till two years after the peace; but I have understood they were well supplied, and at moderate rates, by neutral and British ships, and by a number of captures.

Do you conceive that, by sufficient encouragement, the British North American colonies would be enabled to afford a very considerable proportion of the supply requisite for the West India colonies ?— I am well assured that they could, in the course of a very little time. Have you any idea of the extent ?--I do not know the quantity of flour which the British North American colonies produce, but I have understood it is very great, and would be considerably increased, provided there was a market for it; and the same with respect to lumber.

Are you aware of any practicable means of giving them encouragement should consider that by having a good market, they would be induced to bring a sufficient quantity. Without convoy, in time of war, they could not carry on the trade at all, except under circumstances of extreme disadvantage.

Do you conceive that the articles which are exported from the British North American colonies, namely, flour and lumber, are inferior or superior to those exported from the United States of America?--I have always understood that the flour from Quebec is not of so fine a quality as that from Philadelphia. I have understood that the Quebec white oak staves were best for rum puncheons; I am not aware of any difference in the red oak staves.

Is it your opinion that British ships, in time of peace, could carry on the trade between our colonies and the American States on as good terms as the trade is carried on at present by American ships? -I have not the least doubt of it; there is not less than about 60,000 ton of shipping goes annually from Great Britain to Jamaica without any freight at all.

Do you know whether American ships, or British ships trading between America and the British colonies, are navigated at the cheapest rate?--I believe the seamen in American ships have higher wages than the British.

Will you state the comparative expence of provisions on the outfit? I should think the Americans were cheaper.

What is the comparative expence of building ?--In the British North American colonies, they are built at a very moderate expence

indeed, but they are not so durable. In the United States, I under- Mr. stand the ships to be more durable, but to be built at a much greater Henry. expence; but my reason for thinking this commerce might be carried on by the British at as little expence as by the Americans is, that an immense number of ships go from Britain, particularly to Jamaica, without any freight whatever; it would require some station vessels in the West India colonies to carry on the intercourse with America for provisions.

What measures occur to you as likely to be the most effectual in relief of the present distress of the sugar planters ?--I think preventing the intercourse of neutrals with the enemy's colonies, and the ports of consumption in Europe, would be the most effectual of all remedies. Neutrals have been substituted in the stead of French and Spanish subjects, with all the privileges of French and Spanish subjects in times of peace, whereas the British colonies are subject to all the expences of war. It does not appear to me right, that neutrals should be suffered to carry the produce of the enemy's colonies to their own ports for exportation, which they are not allowed to do in time of peace; the reduction of the duty also would certainly be very important to some extent.

Has the present system, with regard to the neutral intercourse, tended to facilitate or increase the cultivation of sugar in the enemy's colonies?--I conceive it has, particularly with respect to the island of Cuba, to a very great extent.

Can you state the present condition of the enemies colonies, with respect to their cultivation ?--I have not the particular means of knowledge, but I have no doubt, that, but for the intercourse of neutrals, it would have been considerably diminished. I should conceive, if it had not been for that intercourse the cultivation must have been very limited indeed.

What do you conceive to be the comparative rates of expence at which sugar is cultivated in the British West India islands, and in the conquered colonies and Trinidad?—I cannot say distinctly the proportion, but I believe that the conquered colonies cultivate at a cheaper rate. Withdrew.

JOHN VENNER, Esquire, called in, and examined.

STATE to the committee your connection with the British West Mr. India colonies, and the means you have of acquainting yourself with Venner. the West India trade?---I am a merchant in New Brunswick, and have resided there from 1786 to 1804; and during that time have been more or less engaged in the shipping of articles sent from that country to the West Indies, and receiving returns from thence.

Can you speak to the means of supply of the West India islands from British America in general? I can speak more particularly to New Brunswick: I can speak to the other provinces only from having been one of the committee of merchants corresponding with the other colonies.

What are the articles of supply which the province of New Brunswick would afford to the British West India islands, in what quantities, and at what prices ?.--The principal articles that we supply are

pickled and dried fish,, lumber, and shingles; the quantities of fish caught and cured when I left the province, three years ago, as far as my memory serves me were from 30 to 50,000 barrels of herrings annually; the dried fish may be nearly the same number of quintals; and of boards, I suppose from three to five millions of feet were actually sawed annually. Of the fish, a very small proportion was actually exported by us directly to the West Indies; the greater proportion of all the fish we catch and cure, and all the lumber that we saw, instead of being carried in our own vessels to the West India islands are carried by our coasters to the American States, and carried by them to the West Indies.

Why does that trade prevail ?---Because we have at present no vessels of our own to carry them; the navigation of the province is at a stand in consequence of the Americans being allowed to carry them, and the high insurance we are obliged to pay in the time of war.

Is your navigation shut any considerable part of the year?---No; the harbour of Saint John is open the whole of the year, the departure from that coast is at all times easy; the approach to the coast in the months of December and January is dangerous, but not more so than to the northern ports of the United States.

Do you know the state of population in the province of New Brunswick I am afraid at present it is very small, probably smaller than when I left it: the decrease of navigation, and the want of employment, has induced a great number of valuable settlers to quit that as well as the other provinces, and go to the American States.

Has the colony any means of affording a supply of salted provisions to the West India islands ---Not in large quantities at present, but this production I conceive to be in an increasing state.

Do you conceive you could furnish a sufficient quantity of fish from the British American colonies for the supply of the West India islands ---I do, fully, provided we had vessels sufficient to carry them.

Do any considerable proportion of the inhabitants of New Brunswick, at any time of the year, occupy themselves in cutting and preparing lumber?---A considerable proportion of the inhabitants do in the winter season; the custom is then to cut the logs from the woods, bring them to the edge of the banks, and, as the river begins to be navigable, bring them to the mill to saw.

How long does the winter season endure ?---From the 10th November to the 10th March.

Are there extensive forests in New Brunswick which have the facility of water carriage ?--Yes; adjoining the banks of almost every river.

State what kinds of timber they contain.---The principal parts are the white and yellow pine, and spruce, but very little of the red pine; we have the ash, the red oak, and the white oak for staves, but all in small quantities.

Has your fishery experienced any other cause of detriment of late years, beyond what you have stated?---The American fishermen come to our own lines, catch the fish on our own banks, and carry them to their own adjacent islands for sale.

Can you state any instances, within your own knowledge, of the

inconvenience resulting to the British North American merchants, Mr. from the want of shipping from the ports of those colonies to the Venner. British West India islands?... Yes, the being obliged to charter vessels from this country with little or no freight to New Brunswick, to carry our produce to the West Indies. I have actually chartered one from London, of 320 tons, and am about to charter another of the same size from Liverpool, for those purposes.

Could you afford to supply the West India islands at the same prices at which the Americans supply them?-Not during the present arrangement of things in war time, because we have at present no convoys from New Brunswick, and also from the insurance being in a four-fold degree to that which the Americans pay.

Might not that proportion of insurance be diminished by a convoy being furnished?-Certainly.

Do you conceive that under any, and what arrangement of convoys you could come into fair competition with the Americans in the West India market?-By our being allowed regular monthly convoys from the provinces to the islands, and returned convoys monthly from the islands to the provinces; by which means the supply would be gradual, and no particular glut of the article take place.

Is there any quantity of the supply of fish and lumber from the British North American colonies now unsold in the British West India islands ---By the last Jamaica packet, I received an account of the greater part of three cargoes of fish, which have been there from the month of December last, remaining unsold, which has been occasioned by the vast supplies from the British provinces beyond what it was conceived they could furnish, and from large supplies from the United States. The lumber, consisting of white pine and spruce, has been sold at very disadvantageous prices, viz. about 127. a thousand, in consequence of large importations by the Americans, who were selling at rol.

Whence arose this difference in price between your timber and the American. I believe, from its being more fairly prepared, and better sawed and worked up.

What do you conceive to be the means of Nova Scotia and Canada to furnish the necessary supplies to the Britsh West India islands? -I believe the resources of Nova Scotia to be nearly similar to our own with respect to fish and lumber; their prospect of grazing is rather better than ours.

What is the comparative population of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick Nova Scotia is far more thickly inhabited than New Brunswick; their occupations are similar; farmers, mechanics, and labourers; very few shipwrights now. The principal resources of Canada, so far as my knowledge goes, are flour and staves; but I am less acquainted with this province than with Nova Scotia.

Withdrew.

CHRISTOPHER IDLE, Efquire, called in, and examined.

WHAT is your connection with the West Indies, and what means Mr. have you of being acquainted with the means of affording the neces

Idle.