Q. Did they all give? A. I cannot say. Q. You gave without knowing whether all the rest did or not? A. Yes. Q. What did Cope give? Q. What did Martin give? A. I do not know that Martin gave any thing; I do not recollect; he might. Q. Can you state any body in the room, that did not give any thing? A. No; I cannot state who did give and who did not. Q. There was no dispute, all gave their money very freely? .A. Yes. Q. I think you say that the prisoner Ludlam, was not in the room at that time? A. When the money was gathered, I cannot recollect whether he was in the room at that time or not. Q. Can you tell whether before the money was gathered, any thing at all had been said about revolution, or overturning the government, or any thing of the kind? A. I do not recollect that. Q. You mean to swear, you do not know whether when the money was collected, any thing had been said about overturning the government? A. Yes. Q. Had the verses been recited before that time? A. I do not know whether it was before or after, but it was mentioned. Q. You do not know whether the verses had been recited before or after? A. No. Q. Had the map been produced before that time? Q. Will you swear it had not? A. Yes. Q. Had any thing then been said about a cloud from the North? A. I do not recollect any thing about a cloud from the North. Q. Had any thing been said about Sheffield, Chesterfield, Huddersfield, Wakefield? A. I can remember Chesterfield and Sheffield. Q. Had they been mentioned before the money was collected? A. I cannot recollect whether it was mentioned before or after. Q. Had the name of Oliver then been mentioned? A. I never heard Oliver's name mentioned at all. A. Oh yes; I have heard his name mentioned since, but not at that time. Q. Then you have heard it since? A. Yes, I have heard it since. Q. How soon after that meeting, did you first hear it? A. It was a long time after that. Q. Were the names of Jessop and Goodwin and Wragg, mentioned at this meeting? A. Yes, they were. Q. They were your masters? Q. What was said about them? A. Sheffield and Chesterfield were to meet the Wingfield men at Butterley, and they were to take the place, and to kill Mr. Wragg and Mr. Jessop. Q. That was mentioned in your hearing? A. Yes. Q. In Cope's hearing? A. I do not know whether Cope might hear it; I heard it. Q. Was he present when it was mentioned ? A. Yes; he was. Q. Was Martin present when that was mentioned? Q. Was Elsden present when that was mentioned? Q. Had you seen him go out before that time? A. He went out to make water, several times. A. I heard it. Q. Did you tell Mr. Jessop? Q. Did you tell Mr. Goodwin? Q. Did you tell Mr. Wragg? Q. Did you leave them to be shot, without any warning? mence. Q. Did you leave them to be shot, without any warning? A. I did not tell them. Q. What had been mentioned before? A. I said, I did not tell Jessop, nor Goodwin, nor Wragg, they were to be shot. Q. What do you mean by saying, this had been mentioned before? A. This revolution was talked of before. Q. Before you went to this meeting at the White Horse, you knew there was something of the kind talked of? A. No, not before I went to the White Horse, it was talked of afterwards. Q. When did you know it had been talked of? Q. Why did not you tell Mr. Goodwin, Mr. Jessop, and Mr. Wragg, they were in such imminent danger? A. I do not know that I had any right to tell, for they mentioned that if we mentioned any thing, they should cram us up the chimney; we told them there were constables in the room: and they said, that if we mentioned any thing, they should cram us up the chimney. Q. You did not know that you had a right to tell your masters, because this party said, they would ram you up the chimney if you told? A. Yes, we were to be murdered too. Q. Why did you not mention that when you were examined before; you were twice examined before, why did not you mention that you were to be murdered too? A. I did mention that. Q. Do you mean that there was any threat against you? A. If we mentioned anything about what was said there. Q. Do you mean that there was any threat against you if you mentioned what passed, or only that those who mentioned should be attacked? A. They said, that if we mentioned anything, we should be rammed up the chimney, and likewise that we should be murdered. Q. Do you mean to swear your fear of being rammed up the chimney, or being murdered, prevented your telling those gentlemen what you had heard about them? A. Yes. Q. You saw them the next day; Mr. Goodwin, Mr. Jessop, and Mr. Wragg? A. Yes. Q. You had an opportunity of telling them? A. Yes, I might have told them, if I had thought of it. Q. Oh, you did not think of it? A. I did not trouble my head, because I was sworn in the night before to protect my master's place. Q. You were sworn in the night before to protect your master's place, and therefore when you saw him the next day, after you had heard he was to be murdered, you did not think to tell him? A. I did not think nothing about him; but they said if we did, we should be murdered. Q. When were the Chesterfield and Sheffield people to come? A. They were to come the very next night. Q. You had been sworn in a special constable for the express purpose of protecting their property, not their lives? A. I did not mention anything about their lives, but to protect our master's place. Q. You never said a word about it to them? A. No. Q. Did Cope tell them, do you know; perhaps you left it to him to tell them? A. I do not know that he told them. Q. Have you any reason to think that he did? A. No, I have not. Q. Did Martiu tell them? A. I cannot say that he did; I never heard him say that he did? Q. How came you to go to this public house? A. I did not know that I was going to this public house. A. I was taking a walk towards Butterley, and was talking to some young men, and John Elsden asked me whether I would take a walk? I said I had no objection; we went to Swanwick, and had two pints of ale, and he asked me whether I would take another walk? I said I had never been at Pentridge, and should have no objection to go there. Q. You went to Pentridge out of curiosity on this Sunday? A. Yes. Q, Who then proposed to go to the White Horse; did you happen to propose to go to the White Horse, or was it Elsden? A. I do not know; it could not be me, for I never had been there before; I did not know anything of the White Horse. Q. But you might see it flying in the street? A. Yes; I asked him whether he would have a pint of ale? and he said, yes. Q. And it was in consequence of that you went there? A. Yes. Q. By the merest accident in the world? A. Yes. Q. Being at the White Horse? A. Yes, it was in my road home? Q. Then you found those people talking about this. matter of overturning the government, and as it might happen, murdering your master? A. Not when I first went in. Q. But soon afterwards? A. Yes; they did not make it any secret at all; they said that every man would be obliged to go; and they did not keep it any secret at all. |