Bar. My lord, the causes are great and many, it were too long to shew them in particuler; but briefly, my lord, I cannot come to your church, because al the profane and wicked of the lande are receiued into the body of your church. 2. Yow haue a false and antichristian ministery set ouer your church. 3. Neither worship yow God aright, but after an idolatrous and superstitious manner. 4. And your church is not gouerned by Christes testament, but by the Romish courtes and canons, &c.

L. Treas. Here is matter ynough indeed; I perceive thou takest delight to be an author of this new religion.

The Lord Chancellor saide, he neuer heard such stuffe before in al his life.

Bar. As I was about to shew that neither I was an author of this religion, and that it was not new, as they supposed, the Bishope of London interrupted me, and asked me, wherin their worship was idolatrous? The Lord Chauncellor also demaunded the same question.

Bar. Ther is nothing els in that book of your common prayer; being demaunded some particulers, I shewed that their saintes daies, eues, fastes, idol feastes, &c.

Lond. Stay there: why, is it not lawful to keep a memorial of the saintes in the church?

Bar. Not after your manner; it is idolatrie.

Lond. How proue yow

that?

Bar. By the i. commaundement.

Lond. Why, that is, thow shalt haue no other Gods but me. What

of that?

Bar. The word is, thow shalt haue no other Gods before my face. We are therfore forbidden to giue any part of Gods worship to any

creature.

Lond. Why, neither doe we.

Bar. Yes, yow celebrate a day, and sanctifie an eaue, and cal them by their names; yow make a feast, and devise a worship vnto them. L. Treas. Why, may we not cal the day after their names? Is not that in our libertie?

Bar. No, my lord.

L. Treas. How proue yow that?

Bar. In the beginning of the booke it is written, that God himselfe named all the dayes, the first, the second, &c.

L. Treas. Why then we may not call them Sunday, Monday, &c. Bar. We are otherwise taught to cal them in the booke of God.

L. Treas. Why, thow theyselfe callest it the Lordes Day. Bar. And so the Holy Ghost calleth it in the i. of the Reuelation. Lond. We haue nothing in our saintes dayes, but that which is taken forth of the scriptures.

Bar. In that yow say true, for yow finde no saintes dayes in the scriptures.

Lond. We finde their histories and deedes in the scriptures. Bar. But not their dayes and festiuals in the scripture. The Lord Buckhurst then saide, I was a proud spirit. The lord treasurer saide, I had a hotte braine; and taking into his hande a book of common

prayer, which lay on the boord, read certaine of the collectes for the saintes, and shewed that the epistles and gospels were part of the scripture; and asked me, what I could mislike therin?

Bar. I mislike al, for we ought not so to vse scriptures or prayers. Lond. May we not make commemoration of the saintes liues in the church?

Bar. Not after yowr manner, to giue peculi e dayes, cues, worship, feastes vnto them.

L. Treas. But what is there idolatrous?

Bar. Al, for we ought not so to vse the scriptures.

Lond. What, not in commemoration of the saintes ?

Bar. As I haue said, not after yowr manner.

L. Treas. But what is euil here?

Bur. All my lord, for, by abusing the scripture, we may make it an idol. The circumstantes make euil thinges, of themselues good, as in the masse book from whence this stuff is fetched, there are sundry good collectes and places of scripture, which their superstitious abuses make abhominable and euil. Likewise coniurers make many good prayers, which the circumstances also make cuil.

Here the Lord Buckhurst said I was out of my wittes.

Bar. No, my Lord, I speak the wordes of sobernes and truth, as I could make plaine, if I might be suffered.

L. Treas. Here we pray, that our liues may be such as theirs was, void of couetousnes.

Bar. So ought we to doe, and not to reade, or haue any parte of the scripture, without fruite, and to follow and flee that which we finde praised and discommended in them: yet ought we not to vse the scriptures, in this manner, to dayes and times, neither to be thus restreyned or stinted in our prayers, as to be tied to this forme of wordes, place, time, manner, kneele, stand, &c.

L. Buckh. This fellow delighteth to heare himself speak.

(The lord chancellor also spake some what at that time, which I cannot cal to remembrance as yet).

Then the Archbishop also spake many thinges against me, of smal effect, which I haue also forgotten; onely this I remember, he said, I was a strower of errors, and that therfore he committed me.

'Bar. In deed, yow committed me halfe a yeare, close prisoner in the Gatehowse, and I neuer, vntil now, vnderstood the cause why, neither as yet know I, what errors they be, shew them, therfore, I pray yow. The Lord Buckhurst againe said, I was a presumtuous spirit. Bar. My Lord, al spirits must be tried and iudged by the word of God; but, if I erre, my lord, it is meet I should be shewed wherin. L. Chanc. Ther must be streighter lawes, made for such fellowes. Bar. Would to God, ther were, my Lord, our journy should be the shorter.

L. Treas. Yow complained to vs of iniustice, wherin haue yow wrong?

Bar. My lord, in that we are thus imprisoned without due trial. L. Treas. Why? yow said yow were condemned vpon the statute. Bar. Vniustly, my lord, that statute was not made for vs.

L. Treas. Ther must be streighter lawes made for yow.

Bar. O! My Lord, speak more comfortablie, we haue sorrowes ynough.

L. Treas. In deed, thow lookest, as if thow hadst a troubled conscience.

Bar. No, I praise God for it: but it is a woeful thing, that our princes swords should thus be drawen against her faithful subiectes. The lord treasurer answered, that the queenes sword was not as yet drawen against vs.

Then, in a word or two, I complayning of the misery and lingring close imprisonment, which we suffer: the lord treasurer demaunded, if we had had no conference?

The bishop of London answered, that sundrie had bene with vs, as Dr. Some, Grauiat, and others, but we mocked them that came

vnto us.

Bar. That is not true, the Lord knoweth. We mock no creature. Neither doe I know, or haue euer seene, to my remembrance, that Grauiat yow speak of. But miserable phisitians are yow al, for Mr. Some, he indeed was with me, but neuer would enter disputation : He said, he came not therfore, but in reasoning manner, to know some what of minde more cleerly. Some was then by the archbishop called, and demaunded, whither we had conference, or no? Some shewed, how that, at our last conference, before Sir A. G, ther arose a question betwixt vs, whither the prince might make a positive law, de rebus mediis, of thinges indifferent? I denying it, he asked me, whither she might make a statute for the reforming excesse of apparel? I graunted that she might. He then said it was a doctrine of divils to forbid meate, by a positiue law: he shewed me then, that the princes law did not binde the conscience, and that ther is a difference betwixt forum ciuile and forum conscientiæ.

Some to this effect. Mr. Young then vncalled came, and accused me of vnreuerend speeches, vsed against his lords grace, at my first conference with Some, in my chamber; so they were dismissed.

Then I beseeched the lords, to graunt a publicke conference, that it might appeare to al men, what we held, and where we erred.

The archbishop in great choller said, we should haue no publick conference, we had published to much already, and therfore he now committed vs close prisoners.

Bar. But contrary to law.

The lord treasurer said, it might be vpon such occasions done by law; and asked whither I had any learning?

Cant. and Lond. with one consent answered togither, that I had no learning.

Bur. The Lord knoweth I am ignorant, I haue no learning to boast of: but this I know, that yow are voide of al true learning and godlines

L. Buckh. See the spirit of this man.

Then requested I conference againe, and that in writing which was againe by Canterburie very peremtorilie denyed. He said that he had matter to cal me before him for an hereticke.

Bar. That shal yow neuer do: yow know my former answer to that matter: wel erre, I may, but hereticke, by the grace of God, wil I neuer be.

L, Buckh. That is wel said.

The lord treasurer then taking vp a paper of Somes abstract questions, which lay among the bishops euidence against me, read this: that I held it vnlawful, to enacte a lawe that the ministers shal liue by tithes, or the people pay them, and demaunded of me, whither I held tithes vnlawful?

Bar. My lord, they are abrogated and vnlawful.

La Treas. Why, thow wouldest haue the minister liue of somewhat, wherof should he liue?

Bar. Ex pura eleemosyna, of clere almes as Christ in his Testament hath ordeyned, and as he and his apostles.

L. Treas. But how if the people wil not giue?

Bar. Such are not the people of God.

L. Treas. But what shal the minister doe in the meane time?

Bar, Not stand a minister to such, neither take the goods of the prophane.

L. Treas. Where canst thow shew me now in the scriptures, that the ministers now ought not to liue vpon tithes ?

Bar. I took the Bible and turned to these two places, Heb. vij. 12. Gal. vj. 6; in the one, where tithes are abrogate, in the other, that an other provision is made for them. London began the cauil at the wordes, (pure and cleere almes). Canterburie, at the place in the Hebrews, saying, that the authors intent was to proue an abrogation of the preisthod.

Bar. Why, the wordes of the text are these: if the preisthod be changed, then of necessitie must ther be a change of the law and yow cannot deny but that tithes were a part of that law; alleging Num, xviij.

L. Treas, What, wouldst thow haue him, to haue al my goodes? Bar. No, my lord, but I would haue yow to withhold none of your goodes from helping him: neither rich nor pore are exempted from this duty.

Furder I shewed, that, if the minister had thinges necessarie, as food and rayment, he ought to hold him self contented: neither ought the church to giue him more. Then had we some talke concerning the word Preist: the lord treasurer said, that the ministers now were not to be called preistes.

Bar. If they receiue tithes, they are preistes. Moreover they be called preistes in the law.

Lond. Why, what is the word, presbyter, I pray yow?

Bar. An elder,

Lond. What in age onely?

Bar. No, Timothie was a young man.

Lond. Presbyter is Latine for a preist.

Bar. It is no Latine word, but deriued, and signifieth the same which the Greek word doth, which is an elder.

Lond. What makest thow a preist?

Bar. Him that doth offer sacrifices, for so it is written cuery where in

the law. As we were thus reasoning, the lord chancellor asked me, if I knew not those two men (pointing to Canterburie and London),

Bar. Yes, my lord, I haue cause to know them.

L. Chanc. But what is not this the bishop of London?

Bar. I know him for no bishop, my lord.

L. Chanc. What is he then?

Bar. His name is Elmar, my lord. (The lord pardon my fault, that I laid him not open for a wolfe, a bloody persecutor and apostata. But, by this time, the wardens man plucked me vp.)

L. Chanc. What is that man? (pointing to Canterburie.)

Bar. The Lord gaue me the spirit of boldnes, so that I answered: he is a monster, a miserable compound, I know not what to make him ; he is neither ecclesiastical nor ciuil, euen that second beast spoken of in the Reuelation.

L. Treas. Wher is that place, shew it?

Bar. So I turned to the xiij Chap. and began at the 11th verse, and read a litle. Then I turned to 2 Thes. ij. But the beast arose for anger, gnashing his teeth, and said, wil yow suffer him, my lords? So I was pluckt vp by the wardens man from my knees, and caried away. As I was departing, I desired the lord treasurer, that I might haue the libertie of the aire, but had no answer; and I prayed the Lord to blesse their honours. So, I was led forth by an other way, then I came in, that I might not see the brethren, nor they me. This is the effect, so neere as my euil memorie could cary away, the very wordes that were vsed to me, and by me in that place. The Lord pardon my vnworthines, and vnsanctified hart and mouth, which can bring no glory to the Lord, or benefite to his church; but rather reproch to the one, and affliction to the other. But the Lord knoweth how to deliuer the godly out of tentation, and to reserue the vniust vntil the day of judgement vnder punishment. The lord treasurer admonished me, and told me that I took the Lords name often in vaine: I haue forgotten vpon what occasion he spake it. But I beseech the Lord, that I may not forget this his good admonition, but may set a more careful watch before my lippes: for sure, no doubt, I am greatly guiltie that way, and neuer vse holy name, with that reuerence I ought.

The Answers of Iohn Grenewood, at London Pallace, before the two Lord Cheif Justices of Englande, the Maister of the Rolles, the Lord Cheif Baron, togither with the Arch Bishop of Canterburie, the Bishop of London, the Bishop of Winchester, with others, to certaine Interrogatories, as foloweth.

Quest. What is your name?

Answ. Iohn Grenewood.

Quest. Lay your hand vpon the book, yow must take an oath. Answ. I wil sweare by the name of God, if ther be any need, but not by, or vpon a book.