resolution.

The resolution was adopted.

THE LEGISLATURE.

Mr. RANNEY. I offer for adoption the following: "Resolved, That the committee on the Legislative Department be instructed to inquire into the expediency of requi ring every Bil on its final passage, to receive the votes of a majority of all the members elected to each branch of the Legislature by yeas and nays before it shall become a law. The resolution was adopted.

that it would be well enough to let the subject alone. and arduous, I have thought it advisable to offer this I have no sympathy with any such motive or purpose. as seeks to obtain our votes, with reference to entrapping us into this matter with a view to some ulterior end. I do not wish any gentleman, as innocent and inexperienced as I am, to be caught by the traps of any gentleman who may be laying them for me. I am not generally in favor of setting aside any laws. But, sir, I believe this law is impracticable, and I believe it to be an utter nullity-a felo de se, by reason of repugnant provisions in the same section. The two ideas of publication in the newspapers and of a copy-right, are totally repugnant, absurd and irreconcilable with the whole law of copy-right. Now, sir, I am willing to vote for the proposition of the gentleman from Fairfield, unless the gentleman has become tired of it.

Mr. ROBERTSON. Not at all tired of it, sir. Mr. MASON. I prefer it, sir, to any of the propositions that have been submitted. The papers of this city are publishing the debates and proceedings in newspaper, pamphlet and book form. Let them go on. If they need any of our help, and cannot go on without aid from us, I hope they will make known their wishes.

Mr. SMITH of Warren. I move that the report and pending amendments be laid upon the table, with the understanding that they are to lie there.

The motion was agreed to.

Mr. HUMPHREVILLE, I offer for adoption the following:

Resolved, That the rules heretofore adopted,be printed for

the use of the members of this Convention."

Mr. LEECH moved to amend by striking out all after the word resolved, and insert the following, "That the Secretary of this Convention be and he is hereby directed to have printed, for the use of the members, two hundred and fifty copies of the Rules adopted for the government of the Convention."

ELECTIONS BY THE PEOPLE.

Mr. WILLIAMS. I offer the following for consideration:

WHEREAS, There is a deep and just dissatisfaction amongst the people in regard to appointments to office-especially by body, as they do to some extent, into a mere political arena, embittering the feelings of party spirit, and corrupting the pure fountain of legislation; Therefore

the legislative department of government; converting that

Resolved, That the new Constitution provide for the election of all 'State, County, and Township officers immediately by the people.

Mr. NASH. I move that the preamble and resolutions be referred to the committee on the Legislative Department.

Mr. WILLIAMS. I think myself, that the paper ought to go to the committee on Elective Franchise though, perhaps, it is not very material which direction it should take.

Mr. ARCHBOLD. I move to amend the motion by adding "instructions to the committee to strike out the preamble," and as soon as the question is stated, I propose to offer a few remarks.

The PRESIDENT stated the question upon this motion.

Mr. ARCHBOLD proceeded. It appears to me, Mr President that a deliberative body, called together to amend the Constitution of a great State, should be careful in all their acts and investigations, and be very choice of the language they employ-should take care not to reflect in harsh and bitter terms upon former servants of the people. We should recollect, that however humble may be the estimation which gentleman here may individually place upon themselves, whatev er goes forth from this body to the people will be regarded as coming from a high place. We should be very careful about sending forth any accusation of corruption against any former General Assembly. It strikes me that there is involved in this preamble, a very grave charge of this character-a charge, which, as I think, is not true, and which could not be made to appear as true in any instance. I believe that our former General Assemblies have been composed of men-erring presented, as to show as far as possible, the enumeration and men-just like ourselves-of like passions, and subpopulation within the limits of the counties, as at present or-ject to errors, fears, hopes, joys and sorrows-but in ganized.

The amendment was accepted by Mr. HUMPHREVILLE, and the resolution as amended, was agreed to. Mr. HOLMES. I offer for adoption the following: "Resolved, That the Secretary of State is hereby requested, at as early a period as practicable, to furnish this Convention with a statement in tabular form, embracing the following 1st. The enumeration of the white male inhabitants over 21 years of age, in the years 18:9 and 1843 of each county separately, and of the year 1847, so as to show the number in each ward and township respectively. 2d. The census of 1840, specifying the white, colored, and total population in each county.

items of information, to wit:

3d. An estimate of the present white, colored, and total population in each county, based upon the census of 1840, and the

enumeration of 1847-the above items to be so arranged and

4th. That he furnish the committee on Apportionment with a map of the State, of the latest edition, to enable the said committee, to determine definitely the limits of the counties

respectively."

Mr. HOLMES. We have been informed that such information is in the Secretary's possession; and, if so, he will at once give it to the Convention. I hope the resolution will be adopted, for I desire to lay this information before our committee. A large portion of the committee are also desirous to have it at as early a day as possible, in order that we may get to work. The resolution was adopted.

Mr. HOLMES. I offer for adoption the following:

"Resolved, That the Sergeant-at-Arms be directed to procure a room suitably prepared, as near the State House as may be convenient, for the use and deliberations of the committee on Apportionment."

Mr. HOLMES, in continuation. Our committee is the largest of the standing committees, and we have no room in which to meet for deliberation; and, as our labors are expected to be somewhat protracted, onerous

the main, honest men, intending to do right, and act their part well. I cannot sit here, sir, and allow a declaration of this body to go forth,arraigning the conduct of former servants of the people--that they have been men of bad intentions-have not deserved the confidence they have received, without rising up against it. I know that responsibilities have been cast upon our Legislatures which they have not desired, and that they have labored under difficulties, not of their own seeking, whilst they have generally discharged their duties with ordinary honesty.

It should be remembered that there are two powers which control us in this country. One is that which is referred to the legislative department, and the other is a power behind the throne, and greater than the throne itself-I mean the power of the press: and gentlemen, when they bring in their accusations of this character, so harsh, and bitter, and biting, should we not consider whence they have derived the infor mation upon which they are founded-whether it has all come through a pure channel; or whether it is to

be ascribed merely to the public press. And if de- my right, I consider it would be bad policy to adopt rived from the latter source, they ought to reflect, whe- the principle and let it be carried out into practice, that ther the conductors of our public press were all of all officers should be elected by the people; for it might them, paragons of perfection, whether they are all men be necessary to have a notary public in the county of the most unsullied honor and the most unsuspected whose salary would be very inconsiderable; and all such purity in the country; whether their press have never appointments, as I think, should be referred to some given out any false detail of public scandal at which tribunal where they might be conferred without invol they ought to blush; whether they have never made ving the labor and expense of a popular election. It any groundless accusations against honest public ser- is for this reason that I can't go with the gentleman in vants. He cast no reflections upon individuals or par- the declaration that all officers should be elected by the ticular parties. Each party had its own black ballers, the people, for some of them would be so inconsiderato color over the character of its opponents with the ble that they would but ill repay the trouble of candarkest shades: and men who would compare well as vassing the claims of candidates and calling the people to the purity of their intentions with the patriots of together. The doctrine reminds me of the old maxim, seventy-six, have often been represented as the most De minimus non curat lex; or, as John P. Hale of the unworthy of mankind. I am well aware of that fact; United States Senate has it, "The law don't care for and therefore I think the preamble ought to be strick- little fishes." en out. It is manifestly too highly colored, and seems not to have been well considered. I am not willing to make the declaration that we consider ourselves but just emerged from the era of legislative corruption.

The report, being taken up by unanimous consent, was read by the Secretary, as follows:

"Resolved, That we approve the doings of the Reporter prior to the sitting of the Convention. Resolved, That the proceedings and debates be condensed into a volume of not more than 1200 pages, such for instance, as the New York Convention debates, and that 1000 copies be published in the English language.

Resolved, That it is inexpedient to publish the Journal in book form, separate and apart from the proceedings and debates, and that in the opinion of this Convention, it will be inexpedient for the several committees on the Constitution, to accompany their reports with written explanations of the reasons which have influenced them, in agreeing thereto. Resolved, That whenever a member is incorrectly reported, he may apply to the Reporter for correction, and in case of disagreement between them, the matter may be brought before the Convention for disposition.

Mr. HAWKINS. I move to amend the second resolution, by striking out the words "one thousand," and inserting in their place the words "five thousand." Mr. VANCE of Butler. I call for a division of the question.

me this should have some influence upon the Convention, as to the number of copies which should be ordered here. But I understand that the two newspaper publishers of this city are now printing on their own private account, precisely the same edition of these debates. These publishers are to throw the work into the market while we are to re-publish another edition, which is to be distributed amongst the counties and townships and literary institutions of the State. I confess that I hardly know what to do with the question myself.

Mr. NASH. The committee to which was referred the subject of the appointment of an individual to do the ordinary Convention printing, and fix his compensation, considered and settled these two points, but the question as to the amount of printing, was left subject to the future order of the Convention. As a matter of course, the report could have nothing to do with the number ordered to be printed, it simply settled that whatever printing of this kind the Convention should order him to do, the printer should receive 30 cents per 1000 ems for composition, and 35 cents per token for press-work.

Mr. HAWKINS. I am assured that the cost of these reports will not exceed one dollar and twenty-five cents per copy, and one thousand copies will not be more than sufficient to supply the members here, and furnish those which we may desire to send abroad to other States. I desire to have a number sufficient also to supply every county, township and library in the State of Ohio with a copy: and I believe that five thousand would be as small a number as we ought to order under the circumstances. The difference between printing one thousand copies and five thousand copies will not be so great as gentlemen may apprehend. I am informed that the printer is prepared to furnish them at one dollar per copy. A bookseller of the city has estimated the cost, upon the established prices of printing, at one dollar and a quarter per copy; but the chairman of the select committee on printing, (Mr. LIDEY,) who is himself a practical printer, upon a very precise calculation, has estimated the cost at one dollar and twenty cents. I hope that the number I have sugges-of reports which we should order, my opinion is, that ted will be agreed to.

Mr. SMITH of Warren. Since a division of the question has been called for, I shall vote for striking out. I think that 5000 would to be an unnecessarily large number. I would suggest to the gentleman from Morgan the number of two thousand five hundred. I think there is a propriety in the suggestion, that we should supply every township in the State with a copy of this publication. With an edition of twenty-five hundred, I think that, after supplying the townships, we would have a surplus sufficient to send a copy to each of the Literary institutions of the State, and a copy to each of the states in the Union. On consultation with a gentleman near me who thinks that 2500 would hardly be a sufficient number, I will state, that I should not myself object to 3000 copies, which would certainly be sufficient.

Mr. HUMPHREVILLE. It has been very well remarked that this question of price has already been settled, and I apprehend that if the gentleman from Logan, (Mr. STANTON, had been in his place for the last few days, he would have been apprized of this fact. The gentleman seems to suppose that we stand in precisely the same position that we did when he left, but like Rip Van Winkle, awaking from his sleep of years, he will see that we have made some progress. I conceive, sir, that it is important that we should continue to make progress, and that this question should be settled now. The printer wants to be about this work; and if we wait till the session is half through, we shall greatly retard the printing—the reports will be delayed, and an unreasonable length of time will elapse before we can be supplied with them. As to the number

1,000 copies would be insufficient, and that 5,000 copies would be more than the State ought to order. But I agree with the gentleman from Warren, that 2,5-0 or 3,000 copies would be about the proper number; and I hope that will be the number fixed. I hope also, that the various publishers of these reports on their own private account, will have the privilege to publish as large editions as they may choose, and be allowed, without restriction, to sow them broadcast all over the State. I am utterly opposed to setting up any kind of monopoly in this business. Let the Convention order the proper number which ought to be supplied by the State, and leave all the balance to individual enterprize.

Mr. FORBES. Since a division has been demanded, the first question will be on striking out. I shall vote for striking out the one thousand copies (which I regard as entirely too small a number,) not with a view Mr. STANTON. There seems to be a good deal of of filling the blauk with five thousand copies; but, confusion about this question-arising from the fact (after some conference with my friend on my left) I that the subject of printing, and the expense, and the am persuaded that 3,000 copies will be the extent which No. of copies, has been referred to so many different we ought to go with the order for these reports in the committees who have acted upon these various subjects English language. There is no question in my mind in so many forms, and from time to time, so that it is but that before we get through with this resolution, we very difficult to ascertain and distinguish the report of shall have a proposition to print an edition in the Gerone committee from another. It seems to me there is man language; and perhaps if we were to leave & some connexion between this question and the matter blank here, we might be better able hereafter to fix the before the Convention this morning. I confess I can- proper number of copies for the English edition. I not see what is to be the result exactly, of ordering think about 3,000 copies would be sufficient if the any number of copies of these debates. If we are to matter is to be settled now. This would leave some order 2500 copies, we want to know at what price ex-room, if it should be thought necessary, to authorise a actly, and by whom they are to be furnished. [A voice German edition. With these views I go for striking -that has been already settled.] Well, if we give to out. one of these publishers the right to publish any number he may choose and offer them for sale, it seems to

The question was then taken on the motion to strike out the words "one thousand' and it was agreed to.

The PRESIDENT then stated the question to be on filling the blank with the words "five thousand.”

Mr. FORBES proposed to fill the blank with the words "three thousand."

Mr. SMITH of Warren, proposed the words "two thousand five hundred."

reason, that if we print only three thousand it will cost almost as much as five thousand-the difference being only about six hundred dollars, according to the figures which I have made, making a close calculation upon the prices fixed for printing and the actual cost of binding and paper.

Mr. SWIFT. I should be in favor of the number suggested by the gentleman from Wayne, if I thought it could carry; but supposing that to be out of the question. I move to fill the blank with four thousand.

sion about printing. I am not very tenacious for my judgment with reference to this matter, but I shall vote for the largest number proposed. I presume that those gentlemen who talk a great deal, are expecting to be gratified with the appearance of their speeches in these reports, and of course they ought to vote for the larMr. VANCE of Butler. I wish to make a single re-gest number. I shall vote for five thousand copies mark before the question is taken. But before pro- for the ceeding to do so, I wish merely to say, that I have given very little attention to this subject from the first. In truth, I have felt but very little interest in it. My feeling at first was rather against the publication of these debates, but upon reflection I have thought it the part of prudence in us to give them the publicity proposed, I saw there was a strong feeling for this publication on the part of the Convention. And now, my remark is this: It is known that there are two authorized newspapers, publishers of these debates, and that one of them has been appointed to do the printing for this Convention. And it is also known that both of these publishers have been employed for the purpose of giving publicity to these reports through their newspaper columns, and if they see proper, both of them, may publish any number in the book form,on their own account. In fact we have the former portion of the volume already laid on our tables by one of these publishers. It is plain, then, that the cost of multiplying copies will be but little more than the press work and paper employed, and that the consequences will be that these publishers will be able to seil much cheaper than the State-so much so, that at will be impossible for the State to sell at remunerating prices. This being the case, I would not be in favor of ordering a very large number. I will, however, vote for publishing 2,000 copies, since the difference in the cost of 2000 copies and 1000 copies must be very inconsiderable--only about the price of the additional press work and paper.

Mr. OTIS. If in order I would move to strike out all of the original resolution after the word "resolved" and insert the following, which I will read and then send to the Secretary:

"Resolved, That in order to comply with so much of the 4th section of the act to call a Convention, as requires this Convention "to provide for the publication of its proceedings and debates in a durable form" the secretary of this Convention is hereby Instructed to subscribe for 1000 corrected copies of the proceedings and debates in book form, to be bound in a durable manner not exceeding - per volume; one half of said number to be published by the publishers of the Ohio Statesman, and the other half to be published by the publishers of the Ohio State Journal-the same to be completed in thirty days from the rising of this Convention, and deposited in the of fice of the Secretary of State of the State.

The PRESIDENT. The question is now on filling the blank. When the original proposition shall have been perfected, it will be in order for the gentleman to move a substitute.

Mr. HAWKINS. In proposing to insert 5000 copies, there was one reason which I neglected to offer. It has been suggested that it would be well to distribute Mr. LARWILL. I seconded the motion for filling this work amongst the literary institutions of the State, the blank with five thousand, and I wish it expressly but I hope gentlemen will recollect that there are a understood that in doing so, I did not suppose that large number of benevolent institutions in the State, the State of Ohio ought to go into any speculation, so having equal claims upon us for this gratuity. I hope, much as to sell even a single copy of the work. I with my friend from Wayne, that the Couvention will did not believe that the State should act in such a not be disposed to act parsimoniously in this matter. It parsimonious manner. Authenticated copies of these is not for the purpose of selling, but the whole object reports seem to be matter looked for not only in the of our publishing is for gratuitous distribution, and I State of Ohio, but throughout the United States; and would remark, that after we shall have supplied all the it is my honest conviction that five thousand copies demands mentioned, we should be able to reserve a would not be more than sufficient for general distribu-liberal number of copies subject to the order of future tion, without the expectation of selling one of them. legislatures, which may assemble under the new ConI am for gratuitous distribution only, on the part of stitution, who, otherwise, will purchase these books at the State, and leaving the matter of speculation entire- whatever price may be asked. Various other numbers And I have been suggested, in case my proposition should fail, ly to those who may choose to enter upon it. firmly believe that fifty thousand copies will be sold be- and it is also suggested, that, at the proper time there is fore the demand can be supplied. I do trust, to be a proposition made to strike out the whole reselatherefore, that gentlemen will not act so parsimo- tion for the purpose of ordering only two thousand niously as to restrict this order for printing to the num-copies, and dividing that number between the two pubber of two thousand or three thousand copies, for when we come to supply members of the former Legislature which authorized this Convention and the members of the Legislature which shall next assemble under the auspices of the new Constitution, when every county, township, library, and literary institution of the State, and the State libraries of every State in the Union, shall have been supplied, it seems to me that of the five thousand copies there will not be a single copy left. I believe, (if I have been correctly informed) there are some one thousand nine hundred townships in the State of Ohio: and it should be remembered that after all the demands which I have moved shall have been supplied, there should be a surplus left for distribution by the Governor..

lishers of this city. Now I had supposed that when we had appointed a printer, he was the individual to do all the printing which might be ordered, still, as I understand the gentleman from Summit, he proposes to disregard that appointment and divide the printing. I hope the largest number proposed will be inserted, in order that every proper demand may be supplied by the State, and especially that those benevolent institutions, whose object is the amelioration of the social condition of their fellow-citizens, such as the numerous Masonic lodges and lodges of Odd Fellows, and the six or seven hundred Divisions of the Sons of Temperance in the State. These are all associated for promoting the good of their fellow-citizens, and each one of these institutions should be entitled to receive a copy from the State.

Mr VANCE of Butler. Both papers are already Mr. LIDEY. I expected, when I saw this report called up, that we were going to have another discus-paid 121⁄2 cents each per thousand ems for composition

But

on these Convention Reports will be a total failure.
there is another consideration. The publishers of this
city are now engaged in publishing these debates on
private account. I don't see what the Convention will
do:-if we go about distributing these same reports
gratuitously, we cannot but interfere with their busi-
ness; we shall, in fact, be doing them a serious injury.
Taking this view of the matter, I was pleased with the
proposition of the gentleman from Fairfield, (Mr. RoB
ERTSON.)

on the daily publication of these reports. In addition to this, we have appointed Mr. Medary our printer, to whom we are to pay 30 cents additional per thousand ems on all printing, including these reports in book form, and 35 cents per token for all press work. This being the case, he can, after striking off the number ordered by the State, issue a large edition on private account, at the additional expense only of paper, press work and binding, and he can sell much lower than the State, and their books being earliest in the market, and sold for the lowest price, will be sought for, while the State's edition will remain unsold. I do not know that I am prepared to make an accurate calculation, but it is my opinion that these publishers will be able to furn-dering five thousand copies of the debates for the use ish the books at the cost of about 60 cents a volume, which will be less than the cost to the State by the 30 cents per thousand, which pay for setting this type and the 35 cents per token for press work.

Mr. HAWKINS. The remarks of the gentleman from Butler would be very applicable, if the question were as to whether we should order any copies at all. But since it is determined to make some gratuitous distribution of these reports, it becomes simply a question as to the amount which shall be distributed. If the only object were to get the work at a cheap rate, it might be good policy to wait till after the public demand shall have been supplied, and take what may remain upon the hands of the booksellers.

Mr. ROBERTSON. My proposition was very different from that advocated by the gentleman from Muskingum (Mr. CHAMBERS.) I am in favor of or

of the State. I am also in favor of giving to all publishers, the right (which I believe they possess without our leave) of publishing these debates in any form they please. My design in offering the amendment to the resolution of the gentleman from Franklin was merely to avoid a direct vote upon the copy-right question, because I wish to let the matter go sub silentio. I knew there were doubts in the minds of some (though there was none in my mind as to whether any publisher could lawfully publish these reports on their own private account, disregarding the law of the Legislature. And I now say again, that I am willing and desirous that these reports should go out, with the sanction of the Convention, in the periodical or book form; aud Mr. CHAMBERS. I shall vote for the smallest in order to secure that sanction and a correct and aunumber. I am sorry we could not agree to retain the thorized edition published on private account. I hope number reported by the committee. I always wish to we shall have a committee of Revision appointed to pay some respect to the report of a committee, be-supervise the work. [A voice."Will you send your cause they generally investigate with care every subject committee into the Journal office."] A gentleman upon which they report. I shall go for the smallest near me asks if I would send a committee to the Journal number, believing that after we shall have supplied our office; I answer, I would send a committee to neither selves, that will be as far as we ought to go. The idea office: but every publication of our debates would be of sending out information to the people in this way, laid on the table of the committee, and if it were incoris absurd. We have a population of 300,000 thinking rect, it could not receive the sanction of the Convenand reading people, and there is no man who under- ion. stands the business of publishing, that can stand up I am in favor of printing five thousand copies, behere and argue that 5,000 copies are sufficient to supply cause, in the progress of years I believe they will be the reading demand of 300,000 people. Now, with re- needed and I would have Mr. Medary do the work, gard to distributing to townships, what citizen, I ask, because he is the authorized printer of this body. The would think of going to the township clerk to borrow Democratic party is in the majority here, the gentleman a book of this kind for the sake of reading it? You on the other side should, therefore, consent to give the don't propose to distribute more than two or three cop- printing at reasonable prices to a democratic printer, in ies perhaps to each township; and to think from these accordance with the wishes of a majority of the Consources to fill the minds of 300,000 reading and think-vention. ing people-why it is perfectly puerile.

Mr. MANON. I acknowledge myself rather friend

appropriate these debates to ourselves exclusively; but that so far as possible, they should be made to subserve the public advantage. I think five thousand copies will not be too large a number. But we have already spent more public money by the time lost in debate upon this subject, than would pay the difference between the cost of three thousand and five thousand copies; and I think our constituents ought to know that fact.

But I go against the resolution upon another princi- ly to "free trade and sailor's rights;" and I intend to ple. I believe that all the publications of books, re- go for the largest number, or none at all. I am opports, and documents, either by the State or by the Uni-posed to this taking only enough to supply ourselves. ted States, amount generally to nothing more than a I am entirely willing to distribute these reports to all dead weight upon the Government. I know that by the literary and benevolent Institutions, and to all the my own experience; and I appeal to the experience of officers of the State. I insist that we have no right to any gentleman who has been in the habit of receiving public documents, which have loaded down the mail, under the frank of a men.ber of Congress, if after receiving and opening the book, and unfolding a leaf or two, they do not generally lay it aside and never look at it again? I profess to be a reading man, and therefore I am not at any time entirely ignorant of the scope and contents of these public documents, and frequently I read them in the newspapers long before I receive them in the book form. I received one this morning, (the President's message and accompanying documents,) looked at it but a moment, and never expect to look at it again; and the reason is, that I have read THREE O'CLOCK, P. M. them all before. I make it a point to look into such Mr. GREEN said he had no intention of offering documents as early as I can, and I always find them in any lengthy remarks upon the subject under considerathe newspapers. And now I will venture to say of tion. He was, however, a little surprised to see a disthese debates here, that every reading man will read position manifested by gentlemen in this Convention, them as soon as he can get hold of them through the he would not say to squander, for the term might be newspapers; and that all the projected speculations up- considered in an offensive sense, but he would say, to

On motion of Mr. MASON, the Convention took a recess.