since the rebellion collapsed everything has been done that could be done by the Executive department of the Government-in fact, all has been done except the admission of the members of the eleven States that went into rebellion, but having laid down their alms, abolished slavery, repudiated their debts and sent loyal representatives, everything has been done except the admission of the representatives which all the States are constitutionally entitled to. When you examine the Constitution of the United states you will find that you cannot refuse to any state its suffrage in the Senate (They have never been out) That's so! and I have always said they could not go out (cheers) and that being so they are entitled to their equal suffrage in the United States Senate, and no power has the right or can deprive them of it without violating the Constitution of the United States. And the same argument applies to the Representatives in the House. It used to be said that when the states refused to send their representatives that that was secession, a breaking up of the Union.

Now the Radical party have turned round and say that the States are not entitled to representation in Congress. That is to say they are dissolutionists and their position now is to perpetuate the dissolution of the Union and that too while they deny the right of representation they impose on them taxation-a principle upon which in the revolution your fathers resisted the power of Great Britain. We deny the right of taxation without representation-this is one of the great principles of our government. (Cheers.) Let the government be restored, let peace be restored. Many years I have labored for and I am for it now. I deny this doctrine of secession come from whatever quarter it may, whether from the North or South. I am opposed to it. I am for the Union of these states for the thirty six stars representing thirty six states remaining where they are. I am for the Constitution as our fathers have made it and handed it down to us and if it is altered or amended let it be done inthe mode appointed for it by that instrument itself and in no other. I am for the restoration of peace. Let me ask this people here tonight if we have not shed enough blood. Let me ask this people here tonight, are you prepared to go into, to go into, another civil war? (No.) Let me ask this people here tonight: are they prepared to set Man upon man and in the name of God lift up his hand against the throat of his brother? Are you prepared to see our fields again laid waste our commerce and business suspended and all trade stopped? Are we prepared to see this land that gave a brother birth, drenched in a brothers blood? I am one of those who believe that a man May sin and that a man May repent and sometimes that having sinned & having repented it makes him a better man than before, (Cheers.)

I know it has been said that I have exercised the pardoning power. Yes, I have (cheers) And I reckon I have pardoned more men than any other man living on the habitable globe. Yes, I turned fortyseven thousand of our men, who were engaged in this struggle, who were in prison with the arms we captured-Iturned them loose. Large numbers have applied for pardons and thus I have granted pardons to some. But by some I am attempted to be held responsible for doing wrong. Yes, there are some who stayed at home and did not go into the field who call out about blood and punishment and making treason odious and all that (Laughter) who never smelled gunpowder on the other side. Yes they would condemn and they would hang and torture and all that and they that make the comparison-but if I have erred I have erred on mercys side and some of these croakers assume to set up that they are better than the Saviour of mankind, himself-a kind of over righteousness-thinking they are better than anybody-else and are always wanting to do the Deity's work, thinking they can do better than he can. Yes, the Saviour came and found man sentenced and under the law but when they repented he said "let them live." Instead of putting them to death he went upon and was there painfully nailed by those unbelievers that I have spoken of and there shed his blood and died that you and I might live. Will you execute and put to death eight million of people? It is an absurdity and is impracticable even if it were right, but it is a violation of all law human and divine. (Hang Jeff Davis.)

You call on Judge Chase to hang Jeff. Davis; will you? (Laughter.) I am not the court, I am not the Jury nor the Judge. Before the case comes to me, and all other cases, it would have to come as a case or application for pardon. That is the only way cases can come before me. Why don't Judge Chase, Chief Justice of the United States-in whose district he is-why don't he try him? But perhaps I can answer the question, and as sometimes people will be facetious and indulge in repartee, I might ask you a question-why dont you hang Thad Stevens and Wendell Phillips? [Hisses, Laughter, and Cheers.] I say that a traitor at one end of the line is as bad as a traitor at the other. I know men on some occasions who repeat sayings that have been placed in their mouths by their superiors, who have not the courage to come forward and say themselves, but have their understrappers come forward. I know there are some who talk about the elective franchise for which they wanted to overturn the Government of Louisiana, who say, "We must make contracts and send men to these colored people and manage their affairs for them, and yet say they are competent to go to Congress and and manage affairs of state. Before you commence throwing your stones you ought to be able to say that you dont live in glass houses. Then why all this clamor? Dont you see, my countrymen, it is a question of power and being in power it is their object to perpetuate their power. Hence when you turn any of them out of Office they talk about" bread and butter." Yes, it is the most perfect and complete bread and butter party that has ever appeared in this government, and hence when you make an offer to take a single

piece out of their mouths how they clamor. The man who has stayed at home four or five or six years and grown fat and indulged in all the emoluments of office and grown rich, when, you talk about turning one of them out it is "proscription," and hence it is one of the objects of the Congress of the United States to pass a law preventing the Executive from turning any one out. (Turn them all out.) Hence, dont you see what the policy was to be.

How were the people to get hold of the offices. The idea of rotation in office of the days of Madison and Jefferson seems to be lost sight of; bu: my belief is that when one set of men have been in long enough it is time somebody else should have a turn, How are these men to be turned out? (Kick them out) How is this to be done unless you can reach them through the Executive. Congress proposes to pass laws to keep them in. How is this to be done unless it is by the President of the United States. Well let me say to you, if you will stand by me in vindication of the constitution of the United States in trying to give the soldiers and people a chance, I will kick them out as fast as I can (Loud cheers). I care not for the menaces, for the taunts, the jeers, the threats. I don't intend to be bullied by my enemies or even overawed by my friends but God being willing with your help I will veto every measure of theirs whenever they come before me. I place myself on the ramparts of the constitution and when I see the enemy approaching so long as I have eyes to see or cars to hear or a tongue to sound the alarm so help me God I will do it and call for you to the rescue (Loud cheers). I tell you here to-night that the constitution of the country has been encroached upon, the citadel of liberty is being endangered (Go in Andy!) Come up to the work and protect your constitution as the palladium of our civil and religious liberty for it is the ark of our safety. Yes let me ask you to cling to the constitution in this great struggle for freedom as the shipwrecked mariner clings to the plank in the night when the tempest flows around him. So far as my public life is concerned the people of Missouri know that my efforts have been in that direction which would elevate the great masses of the people. Where is the speech or vote of mine but what has always had a tendency to elevate the great masses of the people and when they talk about tyranny or despotism where is one act of Andrew Johnson's that has encroached upon the rights of a freeman.

But because I have stood upon the outworks of freedom and have sounded an alarm hence all this detraction that has been heaped upon me. Then in conclusion here to-night I hand over the flag of your country with thirty-six stars upon it. I hand over the constitution of your country with the charge and responsibil. ty of preserving it intact. I hand over to you to-night the great circle of these states. I hand them over to you, the people: I must I have always trusted the people. The great questions which pertain to your interest I hand them over to you with the charge to preserve them as men who can rise above party & come around the altar of a common country & with faces upturned to heaven swear by him and all shall sink into the dust but that the constitution shall be preserved. Let us stand up for the Union of these States, let us fight the enemies of the government come from whatever quarter they may. You understand what my position is-no tyranny-and with you to-night, I leave the Union in your hands with the confidence I have always had that the people will redress all wrongs and set the government right. Then gentlemen of this great city of the Western States in bidding you farewell I leave all in your charge and thank you greatly for the cordial welcome you have given me to your city (Loud cheers). JOSEPH A. DEAR.

ROBERT S. CHEW Sworn and examined. By Mr. Manager BUTLER: Question. You are employed in the State Department?

Answer. I am.

Question. In what capacity?
Answer. Chief clerk.

Question. Is it part of your duty to supervise and know the commissions issued.

Answer. The duty devolves particularly upon the commission elerk of the Department to prepare all commissions. The commission is first made out by a clerk who is called the commission clerk of the Department. It is brought to me, and by me sent to the President. When returned with the President's signature it is submitted by me to the Secretary of State, who countersigns it. It then goes to the commission clerk for the seal to be affixed.

Question. Then, when it does not belong to your Department, where does it go--when it is not a commission of an officer in your Department?

Answer. To the Treasury.

Question. That is to say, if I understand, the commissions of officers in the Treasury are prepared at your Department?

Answer. Yes, sir; of a portion of the officers of the Treasury.

Question. Such as whom?

Answer. Such as Comptrollers, Auditors, Treasurers, Assistant Treasurers, officers of the Mint, Commissioner of the Revenue.

Answer. There was.

Question. What was that change? Tell us how the commission ran in that regard before and how it has been since?

Answer, (referring to forms.) The form of the old commission was "during the pleasure of the President of the United States for the time being." Those words have been stricken out, and the words "subject to the conditions prescribed by law" inserted.

Question. Does that apply to all commissions?

Answer. That applies to all commissions.
Question. When was that done?

Answer. Shortly after the passage of the tenure-of-office act.

Question. About how soon, if you can tell us, one month or ten days?

Answer. I cannot say exactly, but when the first case came up, making it necessary for the commission clerk to prepare a commission, he applied for instructions under that act.

Question. Was the subject then examined in the Department?

Answer. It was.

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Have you blank forms of the various kinds of commissions issued by your Department?

Answer. I have. [Producing a number of blank forms.]

Question. Prior to the passage of the act of the 2d of March, 1867, being the tenure of civil-office act, were all the commissions issued to hold office during the pleasure of the President for the time being?" "Were they all issued in that form?

Answer. They were all issued in that form. Question. Since this change have all commissions been issued in the changed form? Answer. They have been.

Question. Have such changed commissions been signed by the President?

Answer. They have been.

Question. Has there been, down to to-day, any other change than the one you have stated? Answer. None at all, that I am aware of. Question. Has any commission whatever for any officer been sent out from your Department since the passage of the act, except in this changed form?

Answer. I am not aware of any. Question. Could there have been, except by accident, without your knowing it? Answer. Not unless by accident.

Mr. Manager BUTLER, (to the counsel for the respondent.) I now propose, gentlemen,

Answer. No, sir.

Question. You never have?
Answer. We never have.

Question. Let me ask you if any commission has been issued to a head of Department different from those that you issued before the tenure-of-office act? Has any commission since that act been issued to a head of Department?

Answer. I am not aware of any. I brought no forms of commission to a head of Department, and did not examine that question.

Question. Have you a separate plate for the commission of a head of Department?

Answer. I cannot answer that question. Question. But you recollect no instance in which any change has been made there? Answer. I do not.

By Mr. Manager BUTLER :

Question. Has there been any commission issued to a head of Department since March 2, 1867?

Answer. I do not recollect at this moment. Mr. Manager BUTLER. Then, of course, there is no change.

Mr. STANBERY. Of course not; that is what we have proved.

Mr. Manager BUTLER, (to the witness.) Hand to the Clerk all the forms you have brought with you. We offer them in evidence. The forms offered in evidence are as follows: Temporary Commission of Deputy Postmaster-Old Form. In the form now used, the words in brackets are omitted, and the words subject to the conditions prescribed by law" inserted.

President of the United States of America: To all who shall see these presents, greeting: Know ye, that, reposing special trust and confidence in the integrity, ability, and punctuality of -, I do appoint deputy postmaster and do authorize and empower him to execute and fulfill the duties of that office according to law; and to have and to hold the said office, with all the powers, privileges, and emoluments to the same of right appertaining unto him thesaid -[dur

ing the pleasure of the President of the United States for the time being, and] until the end of the next session of the Senate of the United States, and no longer.

In testimony whereof I have caused these letters to be made patent, and the seal of the United States to be hereunto affixed.

Given under my hand, at the city of Washington, the day of in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and and

[L. S.] of the independence of the United States of

America the

By the President:

Secretary of State.

New Form Permanent Postmaster-No Form of old Commission in the Department.

President of the United States of America:

To all who shall see these presents, greeting: Know ye, that, reposing special trust and confidence in the integrity, ability, and punctuality of I have nominated, and by and with the advice and consent of the Senate do appoint, deputy postmaster, and do authorize and empower him to execute and fulfill the duties of that office according to law; and to have and to hold the said office, with all the powers, privileges, and emoluments to the same of right appertaining unto him,

President of the United States of America: To all who shall see these presents, greeting:

Know ye, that reposing special trust and confidence in the integrity, ability, and learning of

I do appoint him to be Attorney of the United States for the, and do authorize and empower him to execute and fulfill the duties of that office according to law; and to have and to hold the said office, with all the powers, privileges, and emoluments thereunto legally appertaining unto him, the said

[until the end of the next session of the Senate of the United States, and no longer;] subject to the conditions prescribed by law.

In testimony whereof I have caused these lettors to be made patent, and the seal of the United States to be hereunto affixed. Given under my hand, at the city of Washington, the day of in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and, and of the independence of the United States of America the

[L. S.]

By the President:

Secretary of State.

[Old form: "During the pleasure of the President of the United States for the time being, and until the end of the next session of the Senate of the United States and no longer," instead of the words in brackets in the above form.]

New Form Permanent Marshals and Attorneys.

President of the United States of America:

To all who shall see these presents, greeting: Know ye, that, reposing special trust and confidencein the integrity, ability, and. I have nominated, and, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, do appoint him of the United States in and for the and do authorize and empower him to execute and fulfill the duties of that office according to law; and to have and to hold the said office, with all the powers, privileges, and emoluments to the same, of right appertaining unto him, the said for the term —, subject to the conditions prescribed

of by law.

In testimony whereof I have caused these letters to be made patent, and the seal of the United States to be hereunto affixed.

Given under my hand, at the city of Washington, the day of, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and -, and of the independence of the United States of America the

[L. S.]

By the President:

Secretary of State.

[This commission is used for attorneys and marshals. The term of service is four years. The words "unless the President of the United States for the time being should be pleased to revoke and determine this commission" are now stricken out, and the words "subject to the conditions prescribed by law" are inserted.]

Form of Commission for Judges. Answers for permanent or temporary.

President of the United States of America: To all who shall see these presents, greeting: Know ye, that reposing special trust and confidence in the wisdom, uprightness, and learning of

I do authorize and empower him to execute and fulfill the duties of that office according to the Constitution and laws of the United States, and to have and to hold the said office with all the powers, privileges, and emoluments to the same of right appertaining unto him the said

In testimony whereof I have caused these letters

to be made patent, and the seal of the United States to be hereunto affixed.

Given under my hand, at the city of Washington, the day of in the year of our Lord [L. S.], and of the independence of the United States of America the

By the President:

Secretary of State.

[In case of judges of Territories the words 66 'subject to the conditions prescribed by law," are inserted. This commission is used for judges of the Supreme Court of the United States, judges of district courts and Territories, and is temporary or permanent, as the case may be.]

Form of New Commission of Secretaries of Legation used either in the recess or session of the Senate. President of the United States of America: greeting:

To Reposing special trust and confidence in your integrity, prudence, and ability, I do appoint (or nominate) secretary of the legation of the United States of America -, authorizing you, hereby, to do and perform all such matters and things as to the said place or office doth appertain, or as may be duly given you in charge hereafter, and the same to hold and exercise, subject to the conditions prescribed by law.

In testimony whereof I have caused the seal of the United States to be hereunto affixed. Given under my hand, at the city of Washington, the day of, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and, and of the

[L. S.] independence of the United States of America

the

By the President:

Secretary of Stute.

66

[The words during the pleasure of the President of the United States for the time being" were formerly used.]

Old Temporary Consular Commission. The President of the United States of America: To all who shall see these presents, greeting:

Know ye, that reposing special trust and confidence in the abilities and integrity of- -Ido appoint him consul of the United States of America and such other parts asshall be nearer thereto than to the residence of any other consul or vice consul of the United States, within the same allegiance; and do authorize and empower him to have and to hold the said office, and to exercise and enjoy all the rights, preeminences, privileges, and authorities to the same of right appertaining, [during the pleasure of the President of the United States for the time being, and] until the end of the next session of the Senate of the United States, and no longer, he demanding and receiving no fees or perquisites of office whatever which shall not be expressly established by some law of the United States. And I do hereby enjoin all captains, masters, and commanders of ships and other vessels, armed or unarmed, sailing under the flag of the said States, as well as all other of their citizens, to acknowledge and consider him, the said accord

ingly. And I do hereby pray and request- gov. ernors and officers, to permit the said

-fully

and peaceably to enjoy and exercise the said office without giving, or suffering to be given unto him, any molestation or trouble; but, on the contrary, to afford him all proper countenance and assistance; I offering to do the same for all those who shall, in like manner, be recommended to me by

In testimony whereof I have caused these letters to be made patent, and the seal of the United States to be hereunto affixed.

Given under my hand, at the city of Washington, the day of, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and, and of the [L. S.] independence of the United States of America

the

By the President:

Secretary of State.

[The words in brackets have been omitted since the passage of the tenure-of-office acts.]

New Permanent Consular Commissions. The President of the United States of America: To all who shall see these presents, greeting :

Know ye, that reposing special trust and confidence in the abilities and integrity of have nominated, and by and with the advice and consent of the Senate do appoint him, of the United States of America and such other parts as shall be nearer thereto than to the residence of any other consul or vice consul of the United States within the same allegiance; and do authorize and empower him to have and to hold the said office, and to exercise and enjoy all the rights, preeminences, privileges, and authorities to the same of right appertaining, subject to the conditions prescribed by law; the said -demanding

and receiving no fees or perquisites of office whatever which shall not be expressly established by some law of the United States. And I do hereby enjoin all captains, masters, and commanders of ships and other vessels, armed or unarmed, sailing under the flag of the said States, as well as all other

of their citizens, to acknowledge and consider him the said accordingly. And I do hereby pray and request governors and officers, to permit the said fully and peaceably to enjoin and exercise the said office without giving, or suffering to be given unto him, any molestation or trouble; but, on the contrary, to afford him all proper countenance and assistance; I offering to do the same for all those who shall in like manner be recommended to me by

In testimony whereof I have caused these letters to be made patent, and the seal of the United States to be hereunto affixed.

Given under my hand, at the city of Washington, the day of, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and, and of the independence of the United States of America

[L. S.]

the

By the President:

Secretary of State.

[Heretofore this commission read during the pleasure of the President of the United States for the time being."]

Form of Commissions used for Governors, Secretaries of Territories, and officers under the supervision of other Departments, &c., either permanent or temporary, as the case may be.

President of the United States of America: To all who shall see these presents, greeting: Know ye, that reposing special trust and confidence in the integrity and ability of --, I do appoint him and do authorize and empower him to execute and fulfill the duties of that oflice according to law, and to have and to hold the said office, with all the powers, privileges, and emoluments thereunto of right appertaining, unto him, the said

In testimony whereof I have caused these letters to be made patent, and the seal of the United States to be hereunto affixed.

Given under my hand, at the city of Washington, the day of, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and, and of the independence of the United States of America

[L. S.]

the

By the President:

Secretary of State.

Form of Old Commission of Permanent Ministers Plenipotentiary issued as far back as 1790.

To

President of the United States of America: -, greeting:

Reposing special trust and confidence in your integrity, prudence, and ability, I have nominated, and by and with the advice and consent of the Senate do appoint, envoy extraordinary and minister plenipotentiary of the United States of America authorizing you hereby to do and perform all such matters and things as to the said place or office doth appertain, or as may be duly given in charge hereafter, and the said office to hold and exercise during the pleasure of the President of the United States for the time being.

In testimony whereof I have caused the seal of the United States to be hereunto affixed.

Given under my hand, at the city of Washington, theday of, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and, and of the independence of the United States of America

To

President of the United States of America:
, greeting:

Reposing special trust and confidence in your integrity, prudence, and ability, I. of the United States of America, -, authorizing you hereby to do and perform all such matters and things as to the said place or office doth appertain or as may be given you in charge hereafter, and the said office to hold and exercise [during the pleasure of the President of the United States for the time being.]

In testimony whereof I have caused the seal of the United States to be hereunto affixed. Given under my hand at the city of Washington the day of, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and, and of the [L. S.] independence of the United States of America

the By the President:

Secretary of State.

[If used as a temporary commission, the words used in place of those in brackets are

Mr. Manager BUTLER, (to the counsel for the respondent.) I offer now, gentlemen, a list prepared by the Secretary of State, Mr. Seward, and sent to the Managers, of all the appointments and removals as they appear in the State Department of officers from the beginning of the Government.

Mr. STANBERY and Mr. CURTIS. Of all officers?

Mr. Manager BUTLER. Of heads of Departments. It is accompanied with a letter simply describing the list which I will read, as mere inducement.

Mr. CURTIS. We have no objection.
Mr. Manager BUTLER. I will read it:

DEPARTMENT OF STATE, WASHINGTON, March 26, 1868. SIR: In reply to the note which you addressed to me on the 23d instant, in behalf of the House of Representatives in the matter of the impeachment of the President, I have the honor to submit herewith two schedules, A and B.

Schedule A presents a statement of all removals of the heads of Departments made by the President of the United States during the session of the Senate so far as the same can be ascertained from the records of this Department.

Schedule B contains a statement of all appointments of heads of Departments at any time made by the President without the advice and consent of the Senate, and while the Senate was in session, so far as the same appears upon the records of the Department of State.

.

I have the honor to be, very respectfully, your obedient servant, WILLIAM H. SEWARD.

Hon. JOHN A. BINGHAM, Chairman.

Schedule A.

List of removals of heads of Departments made by the President at any time during the session of the Senate:

Timothy Pickering, Secretary of State, removed May 13, 1800.

That is the whole of schedule A. Then

comes

Schedule B.

List of appointments of heads of Departments made by the President at any time during the session of the Senate:

Timothy Pickering, Postmaster General, June 1, 1794.

Samuel L. Southard, Acting Secretary of the Treasury, January 26, 1829.

Asbury Dickins, Acting Secretary of the Treasury, March 17, 1832.

John Robb, Acting Secretary of War, June 8, 1832, and July 16, 1832.

McClintock Young, Acting Secretary of the Treasury, June 25, 1834.

Mahlon Dickerson, Acting Secretary of War, January 19, 1835.

1836.

C. A. Harris, Acting Secretary of War, April 29, Asbury Dickins, Acting Secretary of State, May 19, 1836.

C. A. Harris, Acting Secretary of War, May 27, 1836. McClintock Young, Acting Secretary of the Treasury, May 14, 1842, and June 30, 1842, and March 1, 1843. John Nelson, Acting Secretary of State ad interim, February 29, 1844.

McClintock Young, Acting Secretary of the Treasury, May 2, 1844.

Nicholas P. Trist, Acting Secretary of State, March 31, 1846.

McClintock Young, Acting Secretary of the Treasury, December 9, 1847.

John Appleton, Acting Secretary of State, April 10, 1848.

Archibald Campbell, Acting Secretary of War, May 26, 1848.

John McGinnis, Acting Secretary of the Treasury, June 20, 1850.

Winfield Scott, Acting Secretary of War ad tnterim, July 23, 1850.

William S. Derrick, Acting Secretary of State, December 23, 1850, and February 20, 1852.

William L. Hodge, Acting Secretary of the Treasury, February 21, 1852.

William Hunter, Acting Secretary of State, March 19, 1852.

William L. Hodge, Acting Secretary of the Treasury, April 26, 1852.

William Hunter, Acting Secretary of State, May 1,

1852.

William L. Hodge, Acting Secretary of the Treasury. May 24, 1852, and June 10, 1852.

William Hunter, Acting Secretary of State, July 6, 1852.

John P. Kennedy, Acting Secretary of War, August 19, 1852.

William L. Hodge, Acting Secretary of the Treasury, August 27, 1852, and December 31, 1852, and January 15, 1853.

William Hunter, Acting Secretary of State, March 3, 1853.

Archibald Campbell, Acting Secretary of War, Jan uary 19, 1857.

Samuel Cooper, Acting Secretary of War, March 3, 1857.

Philip Clayton, Acting Secretary of the Treasury. May 30, 1860.

Isaac Toucey, Acting Secretary of the Treasury, December 10, 1860.

Thomas A. Scott, Acting Secretary of War, August 2, 1861.

George Harrington, Acting Secretary of the Treasury, December 18, 1861.

1. W. Seward, Acting Secretary of State, January 4, 1862, and January 25, 1862, and February 6, 1862, and April 9, 1862.

George Harrington, Acting Secretary of the Treasury, April 11, 1862, and May 5, 1862.

William Hunter, Acting Secretary of State, May 14, 1862.

George Harrington, Acting Secretary of the Treasury, May 19, 1862.

F. W. Seward, Acting Secretary of State, June 11, 1862, and June 30, 1862.

George Harrington, Acting Secretary of the Treasury, January 8, 1863.

F. W. Seward, Acting Secretary of State, December 23, 1863, and April 11, 1864.

George Harrington, Acting Secretary of the Treasury, April 14, 1864, and April 27, 1864, and June 7, 1864, and June 30, 1864.

F. W. Seward, Acting Secretary of State, January 4, 1865, and February 1, 1865.

George Harrington, Acting Secretary of the Treasury, March 4, 1865.

William E. Chandler, Acting Secretary of the Treasury, December 20, 1865.

F. W. Seward, Acting Secretary of State, May 15,

1866.

William E. Chandler, Acting Secretary of the Treasury, December 20, 1866.

John T. Hartley, Acting Secretary of the Treasury. September 16, 1867, and November 13, 1867.

F. W. Seward, Acting Secretary of State, March 11, 1868.

Mr. CONKLING. I beg to ask what is the title of the last schedule which has just been read. Will the Manager read it again?

Mr. Manager BUTLER. "List of appointments of heads of Departments made by the President at any time during the session of the Senate." [To the witness.] You told us, Mr. Chew, how long you had been in the State Department. How long was that?

Answer. I was appointed in July, 1834. Question. We see by the list that there have been certain appointments of Acting Secretaries of State; tell us under what circumstances they were made?

Mr. STANBERY. We must ask that that question be repeated.

Mr. Manager BUTLER. I will repeat the question. [To the witness.] There are in the list certain acting appointments, like those of Mr. Hunter, Mr. Appleton, and Mr. F. W. Seward. I do not ask the authority under which they were made; but I ask the circumstances under which they were made? What was the necessity for making them-the absence of the Secretary or otherwise?

Answer. The absence of the Secretary. Question. Since 1884, in the thirty-four years you have been there, has there been any appointment of Acting Secretary except on account of the temporary absence of the Secretary, to your knowledge?

Answer. I do not recall any at this time. Question. By whom were those acting appointments made?

Answer. They were made by the President or by his order.

Question. That is exactly what I want to

Mr. EVARTS. We object that the papers must be produced if their form is to be considered as material.

Mr. Manager BUTLER. I am not asking for form; I am asking for fact.

Mr. EVARTS. That is the fact, as we sup pose what the authority or the form of authority was.

Mr. Manager BUTLER. I am asking now from whence and by whom issued; whether the letter, whatever may be its form, came directly from the head of the Department to the Chief Clerk, Mr. Hunter, or to Mr..Appleton, who was the chief clerk, I believe-whether it came directly from the head of the Department or from the President.

Mr. EVARTS. The objection we make is that the letter of authority shows from whom it came, and is the best evidence of from whom it came.

Mr. Manager BUTLER. Suppose it should happen to turn out that there was not any letter?

Mr. EVARTS. Then you would be in a situation where you could prove it by some other evidence. The question is in regard to letters of authority.

Mr. Manager BUTLER. I am asking from whom the authority proceeded, because I do not know now to whom to send to ask to produce the letter until I find out who wrote it.

The CHIEF JUSTICE, (to the witness.) Were any authorities given except in writing and by letter?

The WITNESS. Only in writing.

Mr. Manager BUTLER. I again say, sir, that I am not able to know whom to send to until I can ask from whom those letters came. That is competent always.

The CHIEF JUSTICE. You can ask where the papers are: where these writings are preserved?

Mr. Manager BUTLER.___ Well, I am inclined, may it please your Honor, to put this question, with the leave of the presiding officer. [To the witness.] From whom did these letters of which you speak come?

Mr. CURTIS and Mr. EVARTS. object to.

That we

The CHIEF JUSTICE. The honorable Manager will reduce his question to writing.

Mr. Manager BUTLER. What I propose to ask is whether any of the letters of authority this witness has mentioned came from the Secretary of State or from any other officer. If he says they all came from the President that will end the inquiry. If he says they all came from the Secretary of State then I may want to send for them. I really cannot understand the objection.

The CHIEF JUSTICE. Do the counsel for the President object to that question? Mr. EVARTS. We object to proof of the authority sought to be proved, except by the production of the writing by which the witness has stated that in all cases it is evidenced. If it is sought to be proved who made a manual delivery of a paper where manual delivery was made to this witness, this witness can speak concerning that, and give such information as pertains to that; but he can go no further.

Mr. Manager BUTLER. I am not now proving the authority; I am proving the source of authority. I am endeavoring to find out From which source of authority these letters came. If they came from the President, that s one thing, and then I can apply there, if I noose, for them; whereas if they came from the Secretary of State, that is another thing, and then I can apply there. I am asking, in the usual course of examination, as I understand the examinations of witnesses, whence certain papers came; were they the papers of the Secretary of State or were they the papers of the President? That does not put in their effect.

inquiry?

Mr. Manager BUTLER. I mean to inquire precisely whether the letter of authority came from the Secretary or from the President.

Mr. CURTIS. Do you mean by that who signed the letter, or do you mean out of whose manual possession it came into this gentleman's?

Mr. Manager BUTLER. I mean, sir, who signed the letter, if you put it in that form. Mr. CURTIS. That we object to.

Mr. Manager BUTLER. I do not do that for the purpose of proving the contents of the letter, but for the purpose of identification of the letter.

Mr. CURTIS. The signature is as much a part of the letter and its contents as anything else.

Mr. EVARTS. Is this offered to prove who signed the letter? We say the paper itself will show who signed it.

Mr. Manager BUTLER. The difficulty is that unless I talk an hour these gentlemen are determined that I never shall have the reply on my proposition. My proposition is not to prove the authority, nor to prove the signature, but it is to prove the identity of the paper; and it is not to prove that it was a letter of authority, because Mr. Seward signed it, for instance, but it is to prove whether I am to look for my evidence in a given direction or in another direction. If the witness says that Mr. Seward signed it, for example, I should have no right to argue to the Senate that, therefore, it was the authority of Mr. Seward; but I am desirous, if I can, to ascertain whether it is worth while for me to go any further than to argue this question; and the objection seems to me over-sensitiveness.

The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Secretary will read the question propounded by the honorable Manager.

The Secretary read as follows:

Question. State whether any of the letters of authority which you have mentioned came from the Secrctary of State or from what other officer?

The CHIEF JUSTICE. "Came from the Secretary of State." Do I understand you to mean signed by him?

Mr. Manager BUTLER. upon that part of it, sir. the question as it stands.

I am not anxious I am content with

The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Chief Justice conceives that the question in the form in which it is put is not objectionable, but

Mr. Manager BUTLER. Iwill put it, then, with the leave of the Chief Justice.

The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Chief Justice was about to proceed to say that if it is intended to ask the question whether these documents of which a list is furnished were signed by the Secretary, then he thinks it is clearly incompetent without producing them.

Mr. Manager BUTLER. Under favor, Mr. President, I have no list of these documents; none has been furnished.

The CHIEF JUSTICE. Does not the question relate to the list which has been furnished?

Mr. Manager BUTLER. It relates to the people whose names have been put upon the list; but I have no list of the documents at all. I have only a list of the facts that such appointments were made, but I have no list of the letters, whether they came from the President or from the Secretary or from anybody

else.

The CHIEF JUSTICE. In the form in which the question is put the Chief Justice thinks it is not objectionable. If any Senator desires to have the question taken by the Senate he will put it to the Senate. [To the Managers, no Senator speaking.] You can put the question in the form proposed.

Mr. Manager BUTLER, (to the witness.) State whether any of the letters of authority which you have mentioned came from the Secretary of State, or from what other officer.

Mr. CURTIS. I understand the witness is not to answer by whom they were sent.

Mr. Manager BUTLER. I believe I have this witness.

The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Chief Justice will instruct the witness. [To the witness.] You are not to answer at present by whom these documents were signed. You may say from whom they came.

The WITNESS. They came from the President.

By Mr. Manager BUTLER:
Question. All of them?

Answer. Such is the usual course. I know of no exception.

Question. Do you know of any letter of authority for the Chief Clerk acting as Secretary of State which did not come from the President?

Mr. STANBERY, (to the Managers.) You have proved it, gentlemen, yourselves.

Mr. Manager BUTLER. I now offer, sir, from the ninth volume of the works of John Adams

Mr. STANBERY. There you will find it, I guess.

Mr. Manager BUTLER. I offer from the ninth volume of Little & Brown's edition of 1854 of the works of John Adams by his grandson, Charles Francis Adams,, what purport to be official letters from Timothy Pickering, Secretary of State, to John Adams, President, and from John Adams to him. Is there any objection to my reading them?

Mr. JOHNSON. Will you state the page, Mr. Manager?

I offer these printed copies as the best evidence Mr. Manager BUTLER. Pages 53, 54, 55. of official letters of that date, it is so long ago. We have not been able to find any record of them thus far, but we are still in search. Is there any objection?

Mr. STANBERY. Not at all.

Mr. Manager BUTLER. Then I will read them :

SIR: As I perceive a necessity of introdueing a change in the administration of the office of State, I think it proper to make this communication of it to the present Secretary of State, that he may have an opportunity of resigning, if he chooses. I should wish the day on which his resignation is to take place to be named by himself. I wish for an answer to this letter on or before Monday morning, because the

nomination of a successor must be sent to the Senate as soon as they sit.

With esteem, I am, sir, your most obedient and humble servant, JOHN ADAMS.

To T. PICKERING, Secretary of State.

T. Pickering, Secretary of State, to John Adams.

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DEPARTMENT OF STATE, PHILADELPHIA, 12 May, 1800. SIR: I have to acknowledge the receipt of your letter, dated last Saturday, stating that, as you perceive a necessity of introducing a change in the administration of the office of State, you think it proper to make this communication of it to the present Secretary of State, that he may have an opportunity of resigning if he chooses;" and that would wish the day on which his resignation is to take place to be named by himself."

you

Several matters of importancce in the office, in which my agency will be useful, will require my diligent attention until about the close of the present quarter. I had, indeed, contemplated a continuance in office until the 4th of March next, when, if Mr. Jefferson was elected President, (an event which, in your conversation with me last week, you considered as certain,) I expected to go out, of course. An apprehension of that event first led me to determine not to remove my family this year to the city of Washington; because to establish them there would oblige me to incur an extraordinary expense which I had not the means of defraying; whereas, by separating myself from my family, and living there eight or nine months with strict economy, I hoped to save enough to meet that expense, should the occasion occur. Or, if I then went out of office, that saving would enable me to subsist my family a few months longer, and perhaps aid mein transporting them into the woods, where I had land, though all wild and unproductive, and where, like my first ancestor in New England, I expected to commence a settlement on bare creation. I am happy that I now have this resource, and that those most dear to me have fortitude enough to look at the scene without dismay, and even without regret. Nevertheless, after deliberately reflecting on the overture you have been pleased to make to me, I do not feel it to be my duty to resign. I have the honor to be, &c..

TIMOTHY PICKERING.

PHILADELPHIA, 12 May, 1800. SIR: Divers causes and considerations, essential to the administration of the Government, in my judgment, requiring a change in the Department of State, you are hereby discharged from any further service as Secretary of State? JOHN ADAMS, President of the United States.

TO TIMOTHY PICKERING.

Now, will the Senate allow the Executive Journal of the Senate, of May 12, 1800, to be brought up, by which we propose to show that at the same hour, on the same day, Mr. Adams, the President, sent a nomination to the Senate?

Mr. STANBERY. Do I understand the

Manager to say, "the same hour?" Do you expect to prove it?

Mr. Manager BUTLER. I should think, when we come to look at the correspondence, that I am wrong; I think the sending to the Senate was a little previous. [Laughter.] Mr. STANBERY. You do? Mr. Manager BUTLER. I do.

Mr. STANBERY. And you expect to prove that?

Mr. Manager BUTLER. I do. [After a pause.] I have not yet heard a decision upon the question whether I am to have the Journal.

was understood and intended to be an expression of the opinion of the Congress by which that act was passed, that the power to remove executive officers for cause might, by law, be taken from the President and vested in him and the Senate jointly; and although this respondent had arrived at and still retained the opinion above expressed and verily believed, as he still believes, that the said first section of the last-mentioned act was and is wholly inoperative and void by reason of its conflict with the Constitution of the United States."

And this respondent, further answering, says, that it is provided in and by the second section of An act to regulate the tenure of certain civil offices,' that the President may suspend an officer from the performance of the duties of the office held by him, for certain causes therein designated, until the next meeting of the Senate and until the case shall be acted on by the Senate; that this respondent, as President of the United States, was advised, and he verily believed and still believes, that the executive power of removal from office confided to him by the Constitution as aforesaid includes the power of suspension from office at the pleasure of the President; and this respondent, by the order aforesaid, did suspend the said Stanton from office, not until the next meeting of the Senate, or until the Senate should have acted upon the case, but by force of the power and authority vested in him by the Constitution and laws of the United States, indefinitely and at the pleasure of the President.'

Now, the second section of the act regulating the tenure of certain civil offices provides: "That when any officer appointed as aforesaid, excepting judges of the United States courts, shall, during a recess of the Senate, be shown by evidence satisfactory to the President to be guilty of misconduct in office or crime, or for any reason shall become incapable or legally disqualified to perform its duties, in such case, and in no other, the President may suspend such officer and designate some suitable person to perform temporarily the duties of such office until the next meeting of the Senate, and until the case shall be acted upon by the Senate." The eighth section provides:

44

'That whenever the President shall, without the advice and consent of the Senate, designate, authorize, or employ any person to perform the duties of any office, he shall forthwith notify the Secretary of the Treasury thereof."

It will be seen, therefore, Mr. President and Senators, that the President of the United States says in his answer that he suspended Mr. Stanton, under the Constitution, indefinitely and at his pleasure. I propose, now, unless it be objected to, to show that that is false under his own hand, and I have his letter to that effect, which, if there is no objection, I will read, the signature of which was identified by C. E. Creecy.

[The letter was handed to the counsel for the respondent.]

Mr. STANBERY.

We see no inconsistency with that part of the act, certainly. Mr. Manager BUTLER. That was a question I did not put to you. I asked you if you had any objection.

Mr. STANBERY. I tell you we see no inconsistency, much less falsehood, in that letter.

Mr. Manager BUTLER. To that I answer the falsehood is not in the letter, but it is in the answer.

Mr. Manager BUTLER thereupon read the letter, as follows:

EXECUTIVE MANSION, WASHINGTON, D. C., August 14, 1867. SIR: In compliance with the requirements of the eighth section of the act of Congress of March 2, 1867, entitled "An act regulating the tenure of certain civil offices," you are hereby notified that on the 12th instant Hon. Edwin M. Stanton was suspended from office as Secretary of War and General Ulysses S. Grant authorized and empowered to act as Secretary of War ad interim.

I am, sir, very respectfully yours,

To Hon. HUGH MCCULLOCH,

ANDREW JOHNSON.

Secretary of the Treasury.

I wish to call attention again, because it may have escaped the attention of some Sen

ators

Mr. CURTIS. We object to the gentleman arguing the question.

Mr. STANBERY. It is time certainly we should know what all this discussion means. What question is now before the Senate? What is your question? Let us know whether we have any objection; how it is that this statement is made.

Mr. Manager BUTLER. I am endeavoring to show, sir, that while the President says he did not suspend Mr. Stanton under the tenure-of-office act, and that he had come to the conclusion that he had the right to suspend him before August 12, 1867, without leave of the tenure-of-office act, and without leave of the Senate, yet, acting under the eighth section of the act to which he refers in his letter, he expressly says in that letter that he did suspend him under this act.

Mr. CURTIS. He does not say any such thing. We do not object to the honorable Manager offering his evidence; we object to his arguing upon the effect of the evidence at this stage.

Mr. Manager BUTLER. I have argued nothing, sir, except to read the law. The CHIEF JUSTICE. Gentlemen Managers, the Executive Journal is now here.

Mr. Manager BUTLER. I now produce the Executive Journal of the Senate.

Mr. JOHNSON. Of what date? Mr. Manager BUTLER. Monday, May 12, 1800. May 9 is the last previous date of executive session: "MONDAY, May 12, 1800. "The following written messages were received from the President of the United States by Mr. Shaw, his Secretary:

"UNITED STATES, May 12, 1800." "The messages were read. "Ordered, That they lie for consideration." "TUESDAY, May 13, 1800. "The Senate proceeded to consider the message of the President of the United States of the 12th instant, and the nominations contained therein, of John Marshall and Samuel Dexter, to office, whereupon,

Resolved, That they do advise and consent to the appointments agreeably to the nomination.

Ordered, That the Secretary lay this resolution before the President of the United States."

Mr. STANBERY. Will you please to read where it appears there, at what hour, what time of day, that was done?

Mr. Manager BUTLER. I have not undertaken to state the hour. I stated directly to the Senate, in answer to you, that I thought that the letter went to the Senate with the nomination, and I believed it would appear from an examination of the whole case that the nomination of a successor went to the Senate prior to the letter going to Mr. Pickering.

Mr. STANBERY. The honorable Manager will allow me to say he said he expected to prove it.

Mr. Manager BUTLER. The Senate heard what I said. I said I expected it would appear from the whole matter, exactly using that phrase. I am quite sure I know what I said.