any office, civil or military, in the kingdom. In this debate the Diary informs us, That col. Shapcot, speaking in favour of the High Court of Justice men, was charged by col. Jones with being one himself. To which Shapcot replied, That if col. Jones was not careful of other men's credit, he desired he would be so of his own; and denied that he ever sat in any. Conference between the two Houses, concerning the Indemnity Bill.] Aug. 16. The Bill of Indemnity, with such Alterations as the commons thought fit to make in the Amendments of the lords, had been returned to that house; and this day their lordships sent to desire a free and speedy conference about it: which being agreed to and ended, the commons ordered, That the Report of this conference should be made to them the next day. Accordingly, Aug. 17. Sir Heneage Finch reported, That according to the commands of this house, the committee attended the lords at a Conference yesterday; and that the substance of the said Conference was as followeth : ceived deliverance like to that of David's and Joseph's, being both in the 30th year of their age: and the afflictions that betel this good king, were the effects of the counsels of these inen that are now in question.-He said, We are next to consider the Safety of the kingdom: their lordships did not think it fit nor safe for this kingdom, that they should live; here they cannot live, nor abroad with safety; for danger to a kingdom is not always within doors: their life may give them opportunity of tampering to the working of mischief abroad. Then for the honour of the kingdom; first, in point of justice, blood requires blood; and he instanced in the Gibeonites, the shedding of their blood could not be expiated but by the shedding of blood.-He took notice, That his majesty's honour was concerned in the infamy, which the shedding of that royal blood hath brought upon this nation, in the eyes of foreign nations; and that this is the only opportunity to take it off-He took notice of an objection, from the Proclamation, issued by his majesty, on the desire of both houses; and, before he "That the matter thereof was about the gave Answer to that, he observed the wonBill of Indemnity to shew wherein they did derful moderation the king and house of peers adhere to their former Amendments; and had shewed in their proceeding towards the wherein they do agree with the Alterations punishment of offenders at this time. His made by this house. That the lord Finch did lordship observed, That to petition to bring a manage the conference for the house of peers; king to justice; to summon him to justice; to and was pleased to tell us, in the first place, sit upon him, when he was summoned to jusThat in the Clause concerning Ireland they tice; and to abuse the people by suggestions were willing to agree with this house, with that might lead them to approve this action, some amendments;-(which the reporter did made them so criminal, as none could excuse particularly open; and are specified in a Paper, them: these proceedings were all high treason then delivered to be communicated to this in themselves; and yet all these are preterhouse; and these being agreed, it will com-mitted in the Act of Oblivion: these are those prehend their agreeing to some other words in the Bill, touching his majesty's dominions.His lordship told us, That, to that clause, which concerns several persons that were Judges of his late majesty, they adhered, as they formerly sent it down; that is, to the blotting out of that Clause, whereby they were reserved to future penalties; and to the excepting of them for life, for which he offered some reasons, That though it be true we are now upon an Act of Indemnity and Oblivion, yet, runs; first, That because divers persons they hoped, we would not make it an Act of are fled from justice, that they cannot be Oblivion of our duty to God, the king, and the brought to a legal trial, therefore they are safety and honour of the kingdom. He took summoned to render themselves: Whence it notice, That this kingdom having now arrived was argued, that the meaning thereof was suitto a miracle of preservation when the pit of de- able to the recital, To bring them to Justice.' struction was open, and the privileges thereof, He observed, That this Proclamation calls in, in all the parts of them, invaded; when the among the rest, Lisle and Say it might have Murder of the King had been committed, added Baxter and Scott; and yet none will say against all the laws of God and man: this it intended to pardon them: therefore, he gaought to stir up in us a sense more than ordi- thered, there could not be supposed an absonary; and, therefore, he thought it fit for us lute intention in that Proclamation to pardon to consider our duty to the king, a gracious all that came in upon it for the very persons prince, and a prince endeared to us by the instanced in, had they come in, had yet not miraculous preservation of his person by the been pardoned. He observed, That the Prohand of Heaven; a prince that had suffered clamation says, they must come in, under pain great afflictions, like Joseph in Egypt, lying of being excepted from pardon and indemnity, long in fetters; and that such as entered into for life and estate; and that we ourselves had his soul, like David, when he was hunted as a resolved to confiscate their estates, notwithpartridge in the wilderness; and that had re-standing the rendering of themselves: and VOL, IV. who murdered his royal father; those that sentenced him, and signed the Warrant: which moderation he made use of to shew, that they might have been more strict in this case. And to the objection from the Proclamation, he said, Something sure was intended by it: but, first, the Proclamation was but negative in the words of it; and that which can be gathered from it, is only implications out of a negative. He took notice how the Proclamation H : thence his lordship argued thus: If it be just to take away their estates, it is as just to take away their Lives: if it be not just to take away their lives, then it is not just to take away their estates. His lordship said further, If these persons, thus excepted for life and estate,should, by us, be not excepted for life, but subjected only to future penalties, then the consequence would be, that we shall adhere to the pardon of some to life, who are more guilty a great deal than some of the persons whom we have excepted for life; some of them having been at all the sittings on the king, diligent attendants thereon all the while; some of them designing the place of slaughter before his own house. It is truc, he said, the thrones of kings are established by judgment and mercy; but mercy had been shewed already, and nothing remains now for support of his throne but justice: And therefore his lordship concluded this point with advice, Let the wickedness of these men fall ' on their own heads; but let the throne of our king be established for ever.-To the exception of the 4 perons that follow in the Clause concerning Vane, Lambert,&c. they also adhere, that they should stand excepted for life: His lordship said, indeed they were not excepted as murderers; but he took notice, that the king, of whose wisdom none can or doth doubt, and of whose, wisdom, he knows, this house hath as great a veneration as any, his majesty himself, sitting the parliament, (who could not but take notice of it) thought fit to commit these persons to the Tower of London intimated, by some Letters of his majesty's in print, If there be persons dangerous to the safety of the nation; and, as such, he looked on these: but he said withal, if they were capable of mercy, no question but the king, the fountain of mercy, would extend it to them. In the mean time, their lordships thought it fit to leave them to the mercy of the king, and so he hoped this house will too. To the Exception of those other 4 persons, that sat in the several high courts of justice, their lordships also adhere. He observed, It was some moderation in the house of peers, that they take no more than one a-piece. He said this was done among them suddenly, and at the table, without conference with any other persons, or meditating a revenge, to shew the candour and plainness of their proceedings: he confessed, it was equal and just, there should be a like expiation for the breach made on the privilege of the commons, and that some persons should be excepted on their account: But their lordships were as careful of the privileges of this house as of their own, and having more reason to expect it from us, than to send it to us, therefore they omitted that. To the Proviso, whereby the 16 are sent down under an incapacity of all public employment, their lordships do agree, being content to acquiesce in their incapacitating only; and to omit the adjourning of them to future pains and penalties." Debate thereon.] After the hearing of this Report, the commons read over the Amend ments the lords had a second time made in the Bill, and a long debate ensued upon them, which we give from the Diary. Sir W. Wylde, Recorder of London, said, That he was not convinced by what had been read, nor could he concur with the lords, so as to except all the King's Judges for life, because of the Proclamation.Mr. Stevens, col. Shapcot, Mr. Trevor, and Sir John Bowyer, moved to adhere to their former Vote. Sir John Northcot, to petition the king. On the other side, sir A. Broderick was for agreeing with the lords. Mr. Charlton said, He did not understand how a Vote of the house should be a contract, because they broke it as to Vane and Lambert, Haslerig and Axtell; and was for agreeing with the lords. Sir Edw. Turner said, They were between two rocks, the honour of that house, and the desire of the lords; that they were masters of their own votes, and had pardoned Thurloe, whom before we coudemned,and added Hacker, whom they never thought on: he also was for agreeing. Mr. Annesley said, He would willingly do justice for the king's blood, and yet preserve the honour of the house, and moved for a com mittee to recollect and state all that had been done in it before. Sir Heneage Finch put a question to the house, Whether it was better to venture the shipwreck of the whole vessel, or throw a few over-board? And said, That if they spared their lives they could not take one acre of their estates by the Proclamation. He added, That if any one of them should fly to a foreign prince, the war would be just if that prince would not render him up: that it was for the safety of the nation to throw Sheba's head over the wall: and, lastly, that the sparing of these people was the way to lose the Act of Oblivion to all; for who would think themselves obliged, when every one was pardoned; therefore he was for agreeing with the lords. Mr. Prynne argued, That he was for excepting all at first, and was so still; and if they were not all so, they themselves must be guilty of the king's blood, those being such horrid traitors as never yet were known that our oaths bound us much more than our votes, which we alter daily what would the world say of us, adds he, but call us regicides? And said, they were bound, in conscience and honour, to agree with the lords. : Sir Rd. Temple, intimated a desire to agree with the lords; but did not conclude positively, but left it to the judgment of the house. Col. King said, Though they passed a Vote for seven, the lords did not; and moved to have a greater regard for their own safeties than for such men, and therefore to agree with the lords. Sir Dudley North spoke for the same; lest it should retard the whole Bill; but then to enter the Vote in the Journal, that it was only done for that end; and to petition the king to extend mercy to those that came in upon the Proclamation. Serj. Hales said, That there never was so high a crime cominitted: that, if there was a cause shewn by the lords, they must alter their Vote; but the question was, Whether the lords had shewu that cause? But the case, he said, was here, That now they were in their power they could not let them go; and moved to have a true representation of the matter of fact, and then to judge.-Upon which, a committee was ordered accordingly. The next day this debate was resumed; when sir Wm. Wylde, from the committee, made a Report concerning the Bill of Indemnity, and the Examination of the passages therein. To which. Mr. Allen said,That he was not in the house when the first Vote was inade: but that the fact of taking off the king was most barbarous, and the not bringing those men to justice would retard the Act: but then, on the other side, the honour of the house was to be preserved by reason of the Proclamation; and yet neither the Vote nor Proclamation were so binding, but the house might agree with the lords; for the Proclamation did not express mercy to those that came in: yet, he added, they did come in upon that Proclamation, and therefore he moved to have those pardoned; so was for adhering. as that house could give; and that it would discourage all for the future from trusting to any such thing: he therefore moved for another conference with the lords, and to put the question, To agree with them or not.-On the contrary was Col. Jones saying, What will the world think of those that speak for the king's murderers? Sir John Northcot got up, and desired he might be called to the bar, or explain himself: Upon which the colonel stood up again and said, He did not reflect upon any person. Sir Rd. Brown, the younger, said, He was for mercy; but it was for all the people in the land, and not for such horrid murderers as these were. Sir John Northcot moved to have a free conference; and if the lords would not agree with them, then to agree with the lords as to their exceptions. Serj. Hales said, That the Proclamation did not imply that those who came in should be pardoned, though they did presume upon it; nor would he plead for such offenders, but for the honour of the king and the houses. Adding, that if they had not been invited by the Proclamation they had been safe, which now they were not; and to refer them to the king was but to take a thorn out of their own foot, and put it into his.. Sir Heneage Finch said, It was only honour to observe the Vote, which pleaded against justice. He was for agreeing with the lords. Sir Harry North replied and said, That had he a brother or an only son, he would not spare him in such a case: that the Vote was not binding, because it was relative as to the lords; and, for the proclamation, he said, they should be favoured in their estates for their wives and Col. Birch argued for sticking to the Proclachildren, but not for their lives; and concluded|mation; saying, That if he should give Artifor agreeing with the lords. cles to a garrison, he should think himself very unworthy to break them. Mr. Knight spoke for an Agreement also, saying, That these people's lives were but as a bucket of water to the ocean, in regard of so many more as were to receive benefit by the Act of Pardon. Mr. Young said, It would be a miserable thing if the act should be hindered by not agreeing with the lords; but yet, the vote of the house being passed, he thought it was obligatory, especially as the general himself had moved so earnestly in their behalfs: that he could not recede from his vote; but desired to have another conference with the lords. Mr. Thurland said, The Votes of the house were alterable, without breach of honour or trust and, for the Proclamation, it was no law nor a contract, and their coming in was but ex debito justitiæ; and moved for taking their lives, but to be favourable to their estates. Col. King said, Their coming in upon the Proclamation was, that God had infatuated then to bring them to justice; qui Jupiter vult perdere prius dementat,' and that they were not injured by the house. Mr. Swinfen said, That he desired to be rightly understood, that no one who spoke in behalf of these men, should be thought to allow of their fact; but what he spoke was for the honour of the bouse: that the Proclamation was obligatory, though there was no positive promise in it; yet it was as much security Sir Edwo. Turner answered the colonel, and said, The king might summons any person that went beyond the sea to come over, and he was not bound to pardon him if he did.-At length a Conference was agreed to. Second Conference between the two Houses, concerning the Indemnity Bill.] Aug. 21. A Report was made in the house of lords, of the effect of the free Conference yesterday had with the commons, concerning the Bill of Indemnity. viz." The house of commons say,That they abhor and detest the horrid Murder of the late king; but they hold themselves bound to insist upon the number of 7 to be excepted for life and estate, because they conceive that many came in upon the king's Proclamation, and they are obliged to consider those persons that came in upon the public faith, and the king's honour is concerned in it. They said further, That the king's Message from Breda was intended to pardon all, excepting such persons as should be excepted by parliament: That the commons do propound an expedient, that those that came in upon the Proclamation should stand in the Bills as they are brought up from the commons, and a Bill to be brought in hereafter to proceed against them as the parliament shall think fit, both for life and estate. Concerning their lordships excepting Vane, Haslerig, Lambert, and Axtell, for life and es an exception, his majesty had been obliged to pass it. To that his lordship answered, True it was so; and had a Bill been tendered to the king, without any exception at all, he had been much absolved by concurring with the houses, though much against his judgment: But his majesty was confident, when he sent that Message, that we would be as forward to do him and the nation justice, as he to desire it: And, withal, he desired us for take notice, that De tate, the commons say there is nothing appears to them to give that sentence upon them; therefore they desire that those 4 persons may stand in the classis as they caine up in the Bill. Concerning the 4 persons their lordships had excepted for life and estate, upon account of sentencing to death the 4 peers, the commons say that one of those 4 is dead, and another is as good as dead; and they do not insist upon the shedding of blood upon the account of the death of commoners, and they hope their lord-claration came inclosed in a letter, which reships would not have the sacrifice of the king's blood to be mingled with any other blood. Concerning the business touching Ireland; the commons do agree to their lordship's Alterations, and they desire that their lordships would concur with them in the aforesaid particulars, as they are brought from the commons."-And, after a long and serious debate of this business, it was ordered, That the lord who managed this free Conference with the commons, with the Addition of the Duke of Gloucester, earl of Southampton, and the lord Seymour, shall meet and consider of Reasons, according to the sense of this debate, to be offered at a Conference with the commons to-morrow morning, to fortify their lordships Resolutions herein, and to offer such expedients as they conceive may tend to a good conclusion of this business between the two houses; and to report the same to this house to-morrow morning. Third Conference between the two Houses, concerning the Indemnity Bill.] Aug. 22. The lords sent a message to the commons, to desire a present free Conference with them, on the matter of the last, relating to the Bill of Indemnity; which being passed on the following day, sir Heneage Finch reported the substance of the said Conference as follows:-" The Conference," he said, "was managed by the lord chancellor (Hyde,) who applied his Reasons to these heads: 1. To the persons involved in the Exception for life and estate, as murderers of his late majesty: 2. To the 4 that are excepted for life and estate, viz. Vane, Haselrig, Lambert, and Axtell: 3. To those who sat in high courts of justice upon the peers. He told us the lords had weighed the Reasons offered from this house, with a great desire of concurrence, and willingness to retract from their own reason, if they had found cause. His lordship observed, the Reasons urged were taken partly from his majesty's Declaration, and partly from the Proclamation issued by advice of both houses. He took no tice, that his majesty had frequently interposed, and been solicitous, for the dispatch of this bill; yea so far that (as he expressed himself) no guilty person in the kingdom did more desire the passing of it than himself: and, for the Declaration at Breda, he said it was not to be doubted but his majesty would most religiously observe it. But whereas it had been offered that his majesty tendered an absolute pardon to all persons, and that the exception mentioned was in the nature of a defcazance thereunto, and that, if a bill had been tendered, without posed an intire confidence in the houses of par- "The barbarous stroke," says lord Clarendon, "so surprised the king, that he was in all the confusion imaginable, and all about him were almost bereft of their understanding. The truth is, it can hardly be conceived, with what a consternation this terrible news was received by all, even by the common people of that country. There was a woman at the Hague, of the middling rank, who, being with child, with the horror of the mention of it, fell into travail, and in it died." Vol. v. p. 276, their restitution, and when they were preparing the way for the great and good work, which is now effected, looked upon as fit to be secured and confined: That, after the king was come in, these gentlemen, notwithstand derness we had to the honour of the nation, the demnity as far as they could, and included all king, and both houses of parliament, which are these men, his father's murderers, in that fatal involved in it; and out of a desire that public exception, gave them thanks for their justice invitations might not prove snares: To which on the immediate murderers of his father; and his lordship said, That the lords themselves, that, in that speccb, there was a subsequent being involved in the same honour with us, clause, which, if any persons be dangerous to (aye, and the king too) hope the Reasons, the state, recommended it to the lords to have which did satisfy their lordships, and had a care of them also. Now, for one of them, satisfied his majesty, would satisfy this that is Axtell; the ground of excepting him house. He did profess, that the peers never was this: they had received information from had any other sense of this Proclamation, than Ireland, (where he is best known) which was as a process or summous, under pain of being first presented to the council, and by them to excepted from any pardon of life or estate, if their lordships, that in the year 1648, while they came not in. He said, It was the sense of the Murder was acting and carrying on, he the king too; and it was not credible any man pressed the soldiers, with violence, to cry and could imagine that the king would ever have clamour for justice; and when the violence joined with the houses in such a Proclamation, had gone so far that the bloody Sentence was unless he had been confident the houses would pronounced, he urged them to cry out, Exehave meant so likewise. His lordship pressed cution! Execution! For Lambert, his lordship further, That, let the world judge of this Pro-intimated, That we could not but take notice clamation, they cannot but believe it was the how near he was to give a turn to all the preseuse of this house too; for it could not be sent settlement we enjoy. For Haslerig and imagined, that if Lisle, Say, Barkstead, and Vane, his lordship observed, That they were Scott, who were all inserted into the Procla-persons whom the secluded members, after mation, had come in, they should have had the benefit of their lives. It is true (his lordship observed) the Exception of these men, by our votes, was before the publishing of the Proclamation; but he desires pardon, if that seems not, to the peers, of any great weight; for, what-ing the censure on them by the secluded memsoever our Votes were, the snare was the same upon such of the persons concerned, who took notice of our Votes, not of the Proclamation; as Scott pleads, he heard of the Proclamation, not of the Votes. He pressed us duly to consider the honour and justice of the nation; and what a reproach it would be if such offenders should escape justice, after such a crime. He put us in mind of some circumstances of aggravation: First, A libel is lately spread abroad, that justifies the Murder of the King with a bare face; yea, justifies it, as necessary; and that on such wicked grounds and arguments, as, in the logic of it, extends to the person of our sacred king that now is, should he fall into their hands. He told us, one of the persons we contend for lurks still; and that a serjeant at arms being sent to apprehend him, he rescued himself; yea, the sheriff of that county being required to give assistance therein, he refused. For the expedeint offered; the lords look upon it as that which tends to the making of these men's conditions better than now they are; an expedient to put off the discourse, and to make the Reasons, their lordships had given, of less weight hereafter than now. To the other part, wherein they do adhere, as to the excepting for life Vane, Lambert, Haselrig, and Axtell, his lordship said, He did not believe that we of this house looked on these persons 'as innocent men; or as men so happy as not to have any crime laid to their charge. He thinks that, had we that good opinion of them, we should not ourselves have excepted them for future pains and penalties. He took notice to us, That the king's Speech to the house of lords, when they had passed this Act of In bers, and the blessed end of the Long Parlia ment, returned to town; never applying themselves to the king, but lurked up and down, without giving any account of themselves: and his lordship added, That they look on them as persons of a mischievous activity; and therefore their lordships desire to leave them to the mercy of the king; with this further intiination, That they would be ready to join with this house in a Petition to the king, that mercy might be shewed them; and that his severity might not extend to their lives; and he did not doubt but the intercession of the houses would be effectual for that. For the last four, who sat in the High Courts of Justice; his lordship observed, That we, of the house of commons, had departed very much from our own passion and provocation, in urging it as a reason why we could not agree, because we could not mingle the expiation of the blood of peers with the expiation of the blood of the king: but that, he said, was not the motive, but justice itself upon so high a breach of the law and offered to consideration, whether it would not amount to justify those courts, if some severity was not used: but this was not much pressed, nor long insisted-on.” "When his lordship had made an end, some worthy gentlemen, that attended the Conference, offered something of Reply; and I may do them some wrong in repeating it: but they are here, and can do right to themselves. It was observed, That this Proclamation was but in the nature of a process: to which it was said, Then at least they should have been heard before they were excepted; which they were not.-Secondly, In the summoning part |