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any office, ciril or military, in the kingdom. ceived deliverance like to that of David's and In this debate the Diary informs us, That col. Joseph's, being both in the 30th year of their Shapcot, speaking in favour of the High Court age: and the afflictions that betel this good of Justice men, was charged by col. Jones king, were the effects of the counsels of these with being one bimself. To wlich Shapcot inen that are now in question.--He said, We replied, That if col. Jones was not careful of are next to consider the Safety of the kingdom: other men's credit, he desired he would be so their lordships did not think it fit nor safe for of his own; and denied that he ever sat in this kingdom, that they should live; here they
cannot live, nor abroad with safety; for danger Conference between the two Houses, concern- to a kingdom is not always within doors: their ing the Indemnity Bill.] Aug. 16. The Bill of life may give them opportunity of tampering Indemnity, with such Alterations as the com- to the working of mischief abroad. Then for mons thought fit to make in the Amendments of the honour of the kingdom; first, in point of the lords, had been returned to that house; and justice, blood requires blood; and he instanced this day their lordships sent to desire a free in the Gibeonites, the shedding of their blood and speedy conference about it: which being could not be expiated but by the shedding of agreed to and ended, the commons ordered, blood.--He took notice, That bis majesty's That the Report of this conference should be honour was concerned in the infamy, which made to them the next day. Accordingly, the shedding of that royal blood hath brought
Aug. 17. Sir Heneage Finch reported, That upon this nation, in the eyes of foreign naaccording to the commands of this house, the tions; and that this is the only opportunity to committee attended the lords at a Conference take it off.-He took notice of an objection, yesterday; and that the substance of the said from the Proclamation, issued by his niajesty, Conference was as followeth :
on the desire of both houses; and, before he “ That the matter thereof was about the gave Answer ta that, be observed the wonBill of Indemnity : to shew wherein they did derful moderation the king and house of peers adhere to their former Amendments ; and had shewed in their proceeding towards the wherein they do agree with the Alterations punishment of offenders at this time. His made by this house. That the lord Finch did lordship. observed, That to petition to bring a manage the conference for the house of peers; king to justice; to summon bim to justice ; to and was pleased to tell us, in the first place, sit upon him, when he was sumnioned to jusThat in the Clause concerning Ireland' they tice; and to abuse the people by suggestions were willing to agree with this house, with that might lead them to approve this action, some amnendments ;-(which the reporter did made them so criminal, as none could excuse particularly open; and are specified in a Paper, them : these proceedings were all high treason then delivered to be communicated to this in themselves; and yet all these are preterhouse ;)—and these being agreed, it will com- mitted in the Act of Oblivion : these are those prehend their agreeing to some other words in who murdered bis royal father; those that senthe Bilt, touching his majesty's dominions.- tenced him, and signed the Warrant: which His lordship told us, That, to that clause, moderation he made use lot to shew, that they which concerns several persons that were might have been more strict in this case. And Judges of his late majesty, they adhered, as to the objection from the Proclamation, be they formerly sent it down; that is, to the said, Something sure was intended by it: but, blotting out of that Clause, whereby they were first, the Proclamation was but negative in the reserved to future penalties; and to the ex- words of it; and that which can be gathered cepting of them for life, for which he offered from it, is only implications out of a negasome reasons, That though it be true we are tive. He took notice how the Proclamation now upoo an Act of Indemnity and Oblivion,yet, runs; first, • That because divers persons they hoped, we would not make it an Act of are fled from justice, that they cannot be Oblivion of our duty to God, the king, and the brought to a legal trial, therefore they are safety and honour of the kingdom.--He took summoned to render themselves :' Whence it notice, That this kingdom having now arrived was argued, that the meaning thereof was suitto a miracle of preservation when the pit of de- able to the recital, . To bring them to Justice.' struction was open, and the privileges thereof, He obscrved, That this Proclamation calls in, in all the parts of them, invaded; when the among the rest, Lisle and Say: it might have Murder of the King had been committed, added Baxter and Scott; and yet none will say against all the laws of God and man: this it intended to pardon them: therefore, he gaought to stir up in us a sense more than ordi- thered, there could not be supposed an absonary; and, therefore, he thought it fit for us lute intention in that Proclamation to pardon to consider our duty to the king, a gracious all that came in upon it : for the very persons prince, and a prince endeared to us by the instanced in, had they come in, liad yet not miraculous preservation of his person by the been pardoned. He observed, That the Proband of Heaven; a prince that bad suffered clamation says, they must come in, under pain great afflictions, like Joseph in Egypt, lying of being excepted from pardon and indemnity, long in fetters; and that such as, entered into for life and estate; and that we ourselves had his soul, like David, when he was hunted as a resolved to confiscate their estates, notwithpartridge in the wilderness; and that bad re- standing the rendering of themselves: and Vol. IV.
thence his lordship argued thus: If it be just to ments the lords had a second time made in take away their estates, it is as just to take the Bill, and a long debate ensued upon away their Lives: It it be not just to take away them, ubieh we give from the Diary. their lives, then it is not just to take away their Sir IV. Hylde, Recorder of London, said, estates.--His lordship said further, If these That he was not convinced by what had been persons, thus excepted for life and estate,should, read, nor could be concur with the lords, so as by us, be not excepted for life, but subjected to except all the King's Judges for life, because only to future penalties, then the consequence of the Proclamatio).-Mr. Stevens, col. Shapwould be, that we shall adhere to the pardon cot, Mr. Trevor, and Sir Jolin Bowyer, moved of some to life, who are more guilty a great to adhere to their former Vote. Sir Jobn:Northdeal than some of the persons whom we have cot, to petition the king. On the other side, sir excepted for life; some of them baving been at A. Broderick was for agreeing with the lords. all the sittings on the king, diligent attendants Mr. Charllon said, He did not understand thereon all the while; some of them designing how a Vute of the house should be a contract, the place of slaughter before his own house. It because they broke it as to Vane and Lambert, is true, he said, the thrones of kings are esta- Haslerig and Axtell ; and was for agreeing with blished by judgment and mercy; but mercy the lords. had been sliewed already, and nothing remains Sir Edw. Turner said, They were between now for support of his throne but justice: And two rocks, the honour of that house, and the therefore his lordship concluded this point with desire of the lords; that they were masters of advice, ' Let the wickedness of these inen fall their own votes, and had pardoned Thurloe, ' on their own heads; but let the throne of our whom before we covdemned, and added Hacker,
king be established for ever.'—To the excep- whom they never thought on : be also was for sion of the 4 perons that follow in the Clause agreeing. concerning Vane, Laiobert,&c. they also adhere, Mr. Annesley said, He would willingly do that they should stand excepted for life: His justice for the king's blood, and yet preserve. lordship said, indeed they were not excepted the honour of the house, and moved for a com. as murderers; but he took notice, that the king, mittee to recollect and state all that bad been of whose wisdom none can or doth doubt, and done in it before. of whose, wisdom, he knows, this house hath as Sir Heneage Finch put a question to the great a veneration as any, his majesty himself, house, Whether it was better to venture the sitting the parliament, (si ho could not but take shipwreck of the whole vessel, or throw a few notice of it) thought fit to commit these persons over-board? And said, That if they spared to the Tower of London * * intimated, by their lives they could not take one acre of their some Letters of his majesty's in print, 'If there estates by the Proclamation. He added, That be persons dangerous to the safety of the na- if any one of them should fly to a foreign prince, tion ;-and, as such, 'he looked on these: but the war would be just it that prince would not he said withal, if they were capable of mercy, render bim up: that it was for the safety of no question but the king, the fountain of mercy, the nation to throw Sheba's head over the would extend it to them. In the mean time, wall: and, lastly, that the sparing of these their lordships thought it fit to leave them to people was the way to lose the Act of Oblivion the mercy of the king, and so he hoped this in all; for who would think themselves obliged, house will too.—To the Exception of those when every one was pardoned; therefore he other 4 persons, that sat in the several bigh was for agreeing with the lords. courts of justice, their lordships also adhere. Mr. Prynne argued, That he was for except. He observed, It was some moderation in the ing all at first, and was so still; and if they house of peers, that they take no more than were not all so, they themselves must be guilty one a-piece. He said this was done among of the king's blood, those being such horrid them suddenly, and at the table, without con- traitors as never yet were known : that our ference with any other persons, or meditating oaths bound us much more than our votes, a revenge, to shew the candour and plainuess of which we alter daily : what would the world their proceedings: lie confessed, it was equal say of us, adds he, but call us regicides? And and just, there should be a like expiation for said, they were bound, in conscience and hothe breach made on the privilege of the com
nour, to agree with the lords. mons, and that some persons should be except- Sir Rd. Temple, intimated a desire to agree ed on their account: But their lordships were with thc lords; but did not conclude positively, as careful of the privileges of this house as of but left it to the judgment of the house. their own, and having more reason to expect it Col. king said, Though they passed a Vote from us, than to send it to us, therefore they for seven, the lords did not; and moved to have omitted that.-To the Proviso, whereby the a greater regard for their own safeties than for 10 are sent down under an incapacity of all such men, and therefore to agree with the lords. public employment, their lordships do agree, Sir Dudley North spoke for the same; lest being content to acquiesce in their incapacitat- it should retard the whole Bill; but then to ing only ; and to omit the adjourning of them enter the Vote in the Journal, that it was only to future pains and penalties."
done for that end ; and to petition the king to Debate thereon.] After the hearing of this extend mercy to those that came in upon the Report, the commons read over the Amend- Proclamation.
Serj. Hales said, That there never was so as that house could give; and that it would high a crime comunitted : that, if there was a discourage all for the future from trusting to cause shewn by the lords, they must alter their any such thing: he therefore moved for anoVote; but the question was, Whether the ther conference with the lords, and to put the lords had shewu that cause? But the case, he question, To agree with them or not.-On the said, was here, That now they were in their contrary was power they could not let them go; and moved Col. Jones saying, What will the world think to have a true representation of the matter of of those that speak for the king's murderers ? fact, and then to judge.--Upon which, a com- Sir John Northeot got up, and desired he mittee was ordered accordingly.
might be called to the bar, or explain himself : The next day this debate was resumed; when Upon which the colonel stood up again and sir Wm. Wylde, from the committee, made a said, He did not reflect upon any person. Report concerning the Bill of Indemnity, and Sir Rd. Brown, the younger, said, He was the Examination of the passages therein. To for mercy; but it was for all the people in the wbich.
land, and not for such horrid murderers as these Mr. Allen said, that he was not in the house were, when the firsiVote was inade: but that the fact of Sir John Northcot moved to have a free contaking off the king was inost barbarous, and the ference; and if the lords would not agree with noc bringing those men to justice would retard them, then to agree with the lords as to their the Act : but then, on the other side, the ho- exceptions. nour of the house was to be preserved by reason Serj. Hales said, That the Proclamation did of the Proclamation; and yet neither the Vote not imply that those who came iu should be nor Proclamation were so binding, but the pardoned, though they did presume upon it; house might agree with the lords; for the Pro- nor would he plead for such offenders, but for clamation did not express mercy to those that the honour of the king and the houses. Adding, came in: yet, he added, they did come in up- that if they had not been invited by the Proon that Proclamation, and therefore he moved clamation they had been safe, which now they to have those pardoned ; so was for adhering. were not; and to refer them to the king was
Sir Harry North replied and said, That had but to take a thorn out of their own foot, and he a brother or an only son, he would not spare put it into his. him in such a case: that the Vote was not bind- Sir Heneage Finch said, It was only honour ing, because it was relative as to the lords ; to observe the Vote, which pleaded against jusand, for the proclamation, he said, they should tice. lle was for agreeing with the lords. be favoured in their estates for their wives and Col. Birch argued for sticking to the Proclachildren, but not for their lives; and concluded mation; saying, That if he should give Artifor agreeing with the lords.
cles to a garrison, he should think hinself very Mr. Knight spoke for an Agreement also, unworthy to break them. saying, That these people's lives were but as a Sir Edw. Turner answered the colonel, and bucket of water to the ocean, in regard of so said, The king might summons any person many more as were to receive benefit by the that went beyond the sea to come over, and he Act of Pardon.
was not bound to pardon him if he did.-At Mr. Young said, It would be a miserable length a Conference was agreed to. thing if the act should be hindered by not agree- Second Conference between the two Houses, ing with the lords; but yet, the vote of the concerning the Indemnity Bill.] Aug. 21. house being passed, he thought it was obligatory, Report was made in the house of lords, of the especially as the general himself had moved so effect of the free Conference yesterday had earnestly in their behalfs: that he could not re- with the commons, concerning the Bill of Incede from his vote; but desired to have ano- demnity. viz.“ The house of commons say,That ther conference with the lords.
they abhor and detest the horrid Murder of the Mr. Thurlund said, The Votes of the house late king : but they hold themselves bound to were alterable, without breach of honour or insist upon the number of 7 to be excepted for: trist : and, for the Proclamation, it was no law life and estate, because they conceive that nor a contract, and their coming in was but ex many came in upon the king's Proclamation, debito justitiæ; and moved for taking their and they are obliged to consider those persons lives, but to be favourable to their estates. that came in upon the public faith, and the
Col. King said, Their coming in upon the king's honour is concerned in it. They said Proclamation was, that God had infatuated further, That the king's Message from Breda thein to bring them to justice;" qui Jupiter vult was intended to pardon all, excepting such perdere prius dementat,' and that they were persons as should be excepted by parliament: not injured by the house.
That the commons do propound an expedient, Mr. Sæinfen said, That he desired to be that those that came in upon the Proclamation rightly understood, that no one who spoke should stand in the Bills as they are brought up in behalf of these men, should be thought to from the commons, and a Bill to be brought in allow of their fact ; but what he spoke was for hereafter to proceed against them as the parthe honour of the bouse: that the Proclama- lianient shall think fit, both for life and estate. tion was obligatory, though there was no posi- Concerning their lordships excepting Vane, tire promise in it; yet it was as much security Haslerig, Lambert, and Astell, for litic and ese tate, the commons say there is nothing appears | an exception, his majesty had been obliged to 'to them to give that sentence upon them; pass it. To that bis lordship answered, True therefore they desire that those 4 persons may it was so; and had a Bill been tendered to the stand in the classis as they caine up in the Bill. king, without any exception at all, be had been Concerning the 4 persons their lordships had much absolved by concurring with the houses, excepted for life and estate, upon account of though much against bis judgment : But bis sentencing to death the 4 peers, the commons majesty was contident, when he sent that Messay that one of those 4 is dead, and another is sage, that we would be as forward to do him as good as dead; and they do not insist upon and the nation justice, as he to desire il: And, the sledding of blood upon the account of the witbal, he desired us for take notice, that Dedeath of commoners, and they hope their lord- claration came inclosed in a letter, which reships would not have the sacrifice of the king's posed an intire confidence in the bouses of par. blood to be mingled with any other blood. liament; and in which there is this clause : If Concerning the business touching Ireland; the there be a crying sin in which the nation may commons do agree to their lordship's Altera- be involved in the infamy that attended it, we tions, and they desire that their Jordships would cannot doubt but that you will be as solicitous concur with them in the aforesaid particulars, to redeem and vindicate the nation from as they are brought from the commons."-And, that guilt and infatny, as we can be :' And after a long and serious debate of this business, bis Jordship said, His majesty could never it was ordered, That the lord who managed doubt but the parliament could have as great this free Conference with the commons, with resentment of that parricide, as the honour the Addition of the Duke of Gloucester, earl and justice of the nation is greatly conof Southampton, and the lord Seymour, shall cerned in it. He told us, His majesty meet and consider of Reasons, according to the (who was duly sensible of the great wound sense of this debate, to be offered at a Confer- he received in that fatal day, when the news ence with the commons to-morrow morning, to of it came to the Hague) bore but one part of fortity their lordships Resolutions berein, and the tragedy, for the whole world was sensible to offer such expedients as they conceive may of it; and particularly instanced, that a woman tend to a good conclusion of this business be- at the Hague, hearing of it, fell down dead with tween the two houses; and to report the same astonishment*. His lordship told us, by the to this house to-motrow morning.
way, He had the honour to be then employed Third Conference between the two Houses, as the minister of his public affairs, in the court concerning the Indemnity Bill.] Aug. 22. The of Spain; and that the king's majesty, that now lords sent a message to the coinmons, to desire is, gave him in special command, and as part a present free Conference with them, on the of his Instructions in that negotiation, that, matter of the last, relating to the Bill of In- when he treated with the king of Spain, he demnity; which being passed on the following should avow and declare, that the Murder of day, sir Ileneage Finch reported the substance his father was not looked upon, by him, as the of the said Conference as follows :-" The act of the parliament or the people of England, Conference," he said, " was managed by the but of a very wretched and very little company lord chancellor (Hyde,) who applied his of miscreants in this kingdom : and that his Reasolis to these heads : 1. To the per- majesty bath the same opinion still; not doubtsons involved in the Exception for life and ing but, if no Letter had been sent with the estate, as murderers of his late majesty: 2. said Declaration, to intimate by way of restricTo the 4 that are excepted for life and estate, tion, what use should be made of his Declaviz. Vane, Haselrig, Lambert, and Axtell : 3. ration, yet the parliament of England would To those who sat in bigh courts of justice upon be as forward to except his father's murthe peers. He told us the lords had weighed derers from pardon, as the thing merits: And the Reasons offered from this house, with a he desired us to consider, if God bad wrought great desire of concurrence, and willingness to this miracle of restitution within a month, or retract from their own reason, if they had found year, or another short time after the fact comcause. His lordship observed, the Reasons mitted, how full of zeal, how full of vengeance, urged were taken partly from his majesty's De- had the spirit of the nation likely to have been. claration, and partly from the Proclamation His lordship took notice. That his majesty's issued by advice of both houses. He took no Proclamation was pressed, hy us, out of a tentice, that his majesty had frequently interposed, and been solicitous, for the dispatch of this * “ The barbarous stroke," says lord Clabill; yea so tar that (as be expressed himself) rendon, “so surprised the king, that he was in no guilty person in the kingdom did more de- all the confusion imaginable, and all about him sire the passing of it than bimself: and, for the were almost bereft of their understanding. The Declaration at Breda, he said it was not to be truth is, it can hardly be conceived, with what doubted but his majesty would most religiously a consternation this terrible news was received observe it. But whereas it had been offered by all, even by the common people of that that his majesty tendered an absolute pardon country. There was a woman at the Hague, to all persons, and that the exception mentioned of the middling rank, who, being with child, was in the nature of a defcazance thereunto, with the horror of the mention of it, fell into and that, if a bill bad been tendered, without travail, and in it died.” Vol. v. p. 276,
derness we had to the honour of the nation, the / demnity as far as they could, and included all king, and both houses of parliament, which are these men, his father's murderers, in that fatal involved in it; and out of a desire that public exception, gave them thanks for their justice invitations might not prove snares: To which on the immediate murderers of his father; and bis lordslip said, That the lords themselves, that, in that speccb, there was a subsequent being involved in the same honour with us, clause, wbich, if any persons be dangerous to (Rye, and the king too) hope the Reasons, the state, recommended it to the lords to bave which did satisfy their lordships, and had a care of them also. Now, for one of them, satisfied his majesty, would satisfy this that is Axtell; the ground of excepting bim house. He did profess, that the peers never was this: they had received information from had any other sense of this Proclamation, than Ireland, (where he is best known) which was as a process or summons, under pain uf being first presented to the council, and by tbein to excepted from any pardon of life or estate, if their lordships, that in the year 1618, while they came not in. He said, It was the sense of the Murder was acting and carrying ou, he the king too; and it was not credible any man pressed the soldiers, with violence, to cry and could imagine that the king would ever have clamour for justice; and when the violence joined with the houses in such a Proclamation, had gone so far thai the bloody Sentence was unless he had been confident the houses would pronounced, he urged thein to cry out, • Exehave meant so likewise. His lordship pressed cution! Execution ! For Lambert, his lordship further, That, let the world judge of this Pro- intimated, That we could not but take notice clamation, they cannot but believe it was the how near he was to give a turn to all the preseuse of this house too; for it could not be sent settlement we enjoy. For Haslerig and imagined, that if Lisle, Say, Barkstead, and Vane, his lordship observed, That they were Scott, who were all inserted into the Precla- persons whom the secluded members, after mation, bad come in, they should have had the their restitution, and when they were prebenefit of their lives. It is true (his lordship paring the way for the great and good work, observed) the Exception of these men, by our which is now effected, looked upon as fit to be votes, was before the publishing of the Procla secured and confined: That, after the king mation ; but he desires pardon, if that seems was come in, these gentlemen, notwithstandnot, to the peers, of any great weight; for, what- ing the censure on them by the secluded idemsoever our Votes were, the snare was the same bers, and the blessed end of the Long Parliaupon such of the persons concerned, who took ment, returned to town; never applying themnotice of our Votes, not of the Proclaination; selves to the king, but lurked up and down, as Scott pleads, he heard of the Proclamation, without giving any account of themselves : and not of the Votes. He pressed us duly to con: his lordship added, That they look on them as sider the honour and justice of the nation ; persons of a mischievous activity; and thereand what a reproach it would be if such offen-fore their lordships desire to leave thein to the ders should escape justice, after such a crime mercy of the king; with this further intiinaHe put us in mind of some circumstances of tion, That they would be ready to join with aggravation : First, A libel is lately spread this house in a Petition to the king, that mercy abroad, that justifies the Murder of the King might be shiewed them; and that bis severity with a bare face; yea, justifies it, as necessary; might not extend to their lives; and he did and that on such wicked grounds and argu- not doubt but the intercession of the houses ments, as, in the logic of it, extends to the would be effectual for that. For the last four, person of our sacred king that now is, should who sat in the High Courts of Justice ; his he fall into their hands. He told us, one of the lordship observed, That we, of the house of persons we contend for lurks still; and that a commons, bad departed very much from our serjeant at arins being sent to apprehend him, own passion and provocation, iu urging it as a he rescued himself ; yea, the sheriff of that reason why we could not agree, because we county being required to give assistance therein, could not mingle the expiation of the blood of be refused. For the expedeint offered; the lords peers with the expiation of the blood of the look upon it as that which tends to the making king: but that, he said, was not the motive, of these men's conditions better than now they but justice itself upon so high a breach of the are; an expedient to put off the discourse, and law: and offered to consideration, whether it to make the Reasons, their lordships had given, would not amount to justify those courts, if of less weight hereafter than now.To the some severity was not used: but this was not other part, wherein they do adhere, as to the much pressed, nor long insisted-on." excepting for life Vane, Lambert, Haselrig, '“When his lordship had made an end, some and Axtell
, his lordship said, He did not believe worthy gentlemen, that attended the Conferthat we of this house looked on these persons ence, offered something of Reply; and I may *as innocent men; or as men so happy as not do them some wrong in repeating it : but they to have any crime laid to their charge. He are here, and can do right to themselves. thinks that had we that good opinion of them, It was observed, That this Proclamation was we should not ourselves have excepted them but in the nature of a process: to wbich it for future pains and penalties. He took no- was said, Then at least they should have been tice to us, That the king's Speech to the house heard before they were excepted; which they of lords, when they had passed this Act of In- were not.-Secondly, In the summoning part