There was some debate whether his Explanation was satisfactory.-Sir Tho, Meres recriminating something that Goring had said, the other day, of the Committee of Popery,

the gentleman should not be present at the debate of this supposition of a crime.

Mr. Goring then said; I am sorry I have given the house occasion of this dispute, but since I find that my company is troublesome to the house, I will withdraw without a question.' And he withdrew.

Sir John Talbot said, If we call a gentleman to account for things said the other day, why may not the king call members hereafter to account for what they have said here? I will Sir Tho. Meres. Alderman Foote said some not justify what Goring has said, but I believe words in the passing the Militia act, which his excuse is satisfactory. I am for his with- gave offence; he had acknowledged the words, drawing, but would have a question for it. I and was called in to his place, and the house could not bear the misfortune to be under the admitted his excuse, that he was sorry he had displeasure of the nation. I think it is a mis- given occasion of offence, &c.' fortune. We must bear with one another, and not be extreme to mark what is done amiss.

Sir Tho. Meres. When Talbot condemns me for recriminating, and tells you of another thing likewise of this nature that he misliked, it is not orderly. I urged it not at all to the gentleman's prejudice, but to remind the Speaker and the house of the too great frequency of these things.

Sir Rob. Howard. I hear it said, It is a punishment and disgrace to withdraw.' If there be a disputable election depending, the gentlemen concerned must withdraw, and no man will say it is a punishment. I am on this side of the house, and I myself am in an office. This side is the major part of the house, and, for ought I know, here is a reflection on the whole house. The thing was ill done, and Goring tells you, he has liked all that the ministers have done,' when the commons of England have not liked it. For the indiscretion he has asked your pardon, and I heartily desire the house would give it him.

Mr. Sec. Williamson. These things are incident to any man, but should all things be taken notice of in great debates, business would never go on.

Sir Tho. Lee. There is more in this than in all the matter of the debate; but it must be a precedent for the future. Where the words are once written down, you cannot show me a precedent in the Journal that a question has been put for withdrawing; but it is done by direction of the Chair. I would not have it a precedent for future parliaments.

Sir Geo. Downing. So long as a gentleman will speak to it, he is not to withdraw. The gentleman is well descended, and but young in years and experience; and I desire the thing

may go over.

Sir Chris. Musgrave. As it was a great offence that Goring has committed, so he has given the house satisfaction by asking their pardon. I think it is satisfactory, and I would have you pardon him.

Sir Tho. Littleton. Alderman Foote was judged to have his reprimand on his knees at the bar; but in this I would not go so far, This gentleman (Goring) sat a great while in his place, smiling and laughing. (Some say, it is his custom.) One said, his words were not so black as those he reflected on.' It is an odd way this of excusing. The young gentleman is forward and zealous, but I would have no more said to him, but an admonition in his place to forbear the like for the future.

Mr. Powle. The words that fell from the gentleman were spoken immediately after what I had said; but I declare, that you may pass it over; and as Goring desires, there may be a Test against Offices,' so I desire there may be a Test against receiving Pensions.

Mr. Howe. I am glad to hear the word 'Pensions.' We are named to be the greatest rogues and villains, and it is said commonly, we are the greatest in nature, and that we take Money to betray our country.' I would have some committee to draw up a Test, about persons that receive Pensions.

Mr. Boscawen. You are to ask Goring no more questions, but to reprimand him in his place, and no more.

Mr. Goring being come to his place,

The Speaker said, "The house has considered your words, Mr. Goring, and, as they are displeased with your words, so they are pleased with your submission; and I admonish you to forbear the like for the future."

Vote and Address respecting the Treaties.] May 4. After several days debate on the Treaties, the following Resolution was carried The Speaker. If it be insisted upon, whe- in the affirmative, 166 to 150. Resolved, ther the house be satisfied, &c. he must with-" That the League offensive and defensive with draw.

Sir Tho. Meres. You state the question well, and then you go off from it. If the house be satisfied, there is no need then of withdrawing. You cannot let him be here present when the question is put. He may then vote to it, and it may come to a question, and therefore he must withdraw.

Sir Wm. Coventry. The words are stated and agreed, and the next thing is to consider the crime, and it is most natural thing that

the States General of the United Provinces, with the Articles relating thereunto, are not pursuant to the Addresses of this house, nor consistent with the good and safety of the kingdom."

It was next resolved, "That it is the opinion of this house, that his majesty be humbly advised, and desired forthwith to enter into the present Alliances and Confederations with the Emperor and the king of Spain, and the States General of the United Provinces, for the

After this Address had been read, a motion was made to adjourn the house, which was over-ruled on a division; Yeas 150. Noes 158. A motion was then made and agreed to, "That the matter of the Address concerning the duke of Lauderdale be added to the Address this day agreed, in these words following: And we farther humbly beseech your majesty, That the duke of Lauderdale may be removed from your councils and presence."

The King's Verbal Message to quicken the Supply.] May 11. Early, when the house was thin, by surprize, Mr. Secretary Williamson moved the house to supply the king with Money, Ships, &c. on a verbal Message from his majesty, "That the Charge was so great, that he must be forced to lay up several of the great Ships, already provided, and to disband many of the Forces newly raised, if he were not speedily suppliedt."

Debate thereon.] Mr. Mallet. I desire that the inace may be sent into Westminster Hall, and the Court of Requests, for your members to attend.

urgency of affairs, and the expedition they re- | wanting to support your majesty's greatness quired, we did present in that form that was and interest, whilst your majesty relies upon not usual in a matter of so great impor- our counsels; which can have no other end tance, and which we then directed to excuse than what sincerely tends thereunto, notwithto your majesty, upon that consideration.- standing any sinister or self-interested endeaAnd because we apprehended that the dangers vours to make impressions on your majesty were so imminent, that the delay of the least to the contrary." time might be of great prejudice to your majesty's service, and the safety of the kingdom after so much time already lost, we thought it necessary to apply immediately to your majesty by ourselves; which, in matters of this nature, is wholly in the choice of this house, and hath been frequently practised by us. And because these occasions are so pressing upon your majesty, and the whole kingdom so deeply sensible thereof, we most humbly be seech your majesty to communicate to us the resolutions your majesty has taken upon our said Advice, that thereby these imminent dangers may be timely prevented. And whereas the commons conceive, that the present inconveniences and dangers, under which the kingdoms now lies, might have been either totally or in a great measure, prevented, if your majesty had accepted of that Advice, which, in all humility and faithfulness, we presented to your majesty on the 26th of May last, and which we re-iterated to your majesty on the 31st of Jan. ensuing; the refusing of which Advice, and dismissing of the parliament in May last, was the occasion of those ill consequences, which have since succeeded both at home and abroad; all which hath arisen from those misrepresentations of our proceedings, which have been suggested to your majesty, by some particular persons, in a clandestine way, without the participation and advice (as we conceive) of the Council-board; as though we had invaded your majesty's prerogative of making peace and war; whereas we did only offer our humble Advice in matters wherein the safety of the kingdom was concerned; which is a right was never yet questioned in the times of your royal predecessors, and without which your majesty can never be safe. Upon which grounds your majesty was induced to give us such Answers to those two Addresses, rejecting our Advice, as thereby your majesty's good subjects have been infinitely discouraged, and the state of your majesty's affairs reduced to a most deplorable condition: we do therefore most humbly desire, that, for the good and safety of this kingdom, and the satisfaction of your subjects, your majesty would be graciously pleased to remove those Counsellors, who advised the Answers to our Addresses of the 26th of May, and the 31st of Jan. last or either of them. And we do farther most humbly desire your majesty favourably to accept this our humble Petition and Address, as proceeding from hearts entirely devoted to your majesty's service; and that as we have never yet failed of giving testimonies of our affection and loyalty to your majesty's person, and government, so your majesty may rest confidently assured that we shall never be

Mr. Boscawen. I wonder that Money should be moved for before we have an Answer from the king to our Address. I would know of the hon. person that moved it, whether we are like to have peace, or war; for hitherto we are dealt with like children. By my consent, not a penny of money till we are plainly dealt with.

Mr. Sec. Williamson. Gentlemen ask, whether we shall have war, or not? If the thing must have its issue by the way and manner we have proposed, we can expect little. The Dutch mmistry were in great trouble at our proceedings yesterday. I pacified them as well as I could, but upon the whole they feared some things that passed here would have that effect. I say, they desire to go deeper with you, and go higher. I told you formerly how peremptory they were: Van Leuen, is another sort of man, than Van Bennegen. It is so far from true, that they would be brought over to the French Alliance as the other was, that they would be brought to carry on the war: as for these two towns, the prince declared, he knew his uncle's mind; comparing things together, he could make conjecture: but whether it be peace, or war, Spain must be paid and fear not to be outdone in the Supply: that nothing may be in the king's hand: and I would this day be upon it.

It appears by the Journal, that lord Obrien and sir Tho. Chichley were this day ordered into the custody of the serjeant at arms, for a quarrel that had happened between them on a division of the house, in which blows were given. + Grey.

Sir Tho. Clarges. I wonder that gentlemen | by reason of the Expence and Charge his mawill move you against a Vote of the house, jesty has been, at for equipping and furnishing for securing Religion, &c. before you go upon his Navy, and raising soldiers, &c. he desires any other matter.' We now are in ready that the house would immediately enter into way for Money; but Popery, a bill of a half a consideration of a Supply for hin; for his madozen sheets, has lain with the lords 12 mouths.jesty must either disband the men, or pay Till we be rid of those Counsels, that have so them."* misled us, we have nothing to give the king. Common fame says, that some gentlemen have been turned out of their places, for their voting, and just upon their voting against the ministers. [Mr. Saville, &c.] A man that comes out of a room where one is killed, with a knife bloody, the Jury will find guilty, when no other man appears to have done the fact.

Mr. Goring. I would know, how that gentleman knows they are turned out of their places, for giving their votes here.

So.

Sir Tho. Clarges. I said Common fame says

Sir Cha. Wheeler. He said, we are reduced to slavery.' I would have those words written down.

Sir John Hotham. More than common fame will make that out. That you are very near slavery is more than common fame. If these pranks go on, we shall be reduced to slavery.'

Sir Tho. Meres. It is said, That members are turned out of their places for giving their votes here.' I know not for what other reason they are turned out. I would have some other cause assigned, if they know it. Just upon such an occasion they are turned out; one may make a probable conjecture though no demonstration, of it; and as the consequence, if the house be used to it, it will lose its liberty and freedom; and what makes people free but liberty to give their votes here? The Speaker. If it be insisted upon, That the words spoken gave exceptions,' before you go on in the debate, they must be written down.

Mr.Garroway. Pray let us be plain and see; for, as things are, we can make no judgment of them. Let us know our Answer from the king to our Address; and do like reasonable men. They have had great time to consider; we have had none. Pray let this Message alone till Monday. We know not why we should disband these forces, or keep them up, for we know nothing of war, or peace. Whatever we do, will else be by chance; it may be very well, or very ill. I would therefore consider of it.

Mr. Powle. There is one word in the king's Message which I take notice of, the word immediately.' To enter into the debate, I will always show as much respect to the king's Message, as any man: but I think that word immediately' over-rules the debate, and intrenches upon the privileges of this house. I am sorry those about the king will impose these things upon his majesty. It will be time to take up this debate, when our Grievances are redressed, and our Address answered. And then, giving Money ought to be the last thing considered. Why was the Army so hastily raised? Which was no good sign of good intention to the public. Let those about the king set things right and straight. Till then it is too raw and fresh to go upon Money. And I would let fall the debate now, and go upon other business.

I am

Sir John Ernly. You must disband these men that are raised, or pay them. If it be a war, these men are ready for you, and I am glad we are in so much readiness towards it. no more for a standing army than any Sir Tho. Littleton. I would have the words gentleman here; but I would give the king written down. Clarges gave a comparison of some resolution of his Message. If we cona Jury that would find it murder in the per-sider it not now, that we would do it some son that came out of a house, with a bloody other time. You cannot leave it thus, without knife, &c. and no other cause appear.' I would great dissatisfaction to the nation. have the words written down.

Sir Tho. Lee. If my worthy friend, Wheeler, had known what his soldiers had done in Southwark, he would not have been so forward in this.

Mr. Garroway. These gentlemen, that would have the words written down, would not be so forward, if they heard of what I shall tell you what those soldiers are, and what they have done. Then you will judge whether it is fit to give Money to support them in their carriage. I would, in this unlucky juncture, do any thing for your service. Let gentlemen get on in the report, and wave this motion. If you will go on, let the words the gentleman spoke be asserted in writing, and do what you please upon them.-The thing went off.

The Speaker reported the substance of the king's Message by Sec. Williamson, viz. "That,

Col. Birch. This was a work of darkness, from the beginning. We gave Money for what we see now not a word of it true: a bargain performed on the one side, and not on the other. We were told, that we must trust the king with the Treaties, because the thing could not be well discovered to us.' No doubt but the king knows the bottom of all this, and if he disband the men, and discharge the Ships, he knows why he does it. But still we have no Answer to making of Leagues, that we advised. If the king enter into this league, we shall see all the quotas of the Con

* In the Journal, the words are the same with those in the Secretary's first Speech. The former part of the Message was, 'That his majesty had appointed 4 o'clock in the afternoon for their attending him with the Address,"