A POLITICAL DIALOGUE.* A. TWENTY-TWO years ago, you and I had a conversation. on the "Present State of Liberty in Great Britain and the Colonies." At that time you were not a little alarmed at several recent encroachments of the power of the crown, and especially at the measures which were then taking with our American colonies. The sense of the nation, expressed in remonstrances, and other ways, contributed not a little to put a stop to the particular encroachments, then complained of, on liberty at home; but those on the liberties of America proceeded till they produced an open rupture with our colonies, and ended in their entire separation from us. This is an event which, though we then dreaded, we now (excepting the bloodshed and expense attending it) rejoice in, as having proved happy for both countries, having effectually secured the liberties of America, and bearing a favourable aspect upon our own. Since that time other great events of a public nature have taken place, and the minds of all thinking men, in this country and throughout all Europe, are big with expectation of others of the same nature, still more extensive. I cannot help, therefore, wishing to have some conversation with you on the subject. B. The great events to which you allude have not failed to excite my attention, as well as that of thousands of others, since they are likely to have the most important and extensive consequences. In America and France (to say nothing of Poland) we have examples of two entirely new constitutions. of government that deserve particular notice, as differing from any that the world has seen before; and I own that my reflections upon them have given me new lights on the subject of * This pamphlet (No. 21 in the Catalogue annexed to the Memoirs) appears to have escaped the author's recollection in 1794. See Vol. XV. p. 524, ad fin. + This refers to a small tract published in 1769. (P.) See Vol. XXII. p. 380. † See Vol. XXII. p. 177. "The independence of America," says Mr. Paine, "considered merely as a separation from England, would have been a matter but of little importance, had it not been accompanied by a revolution in the principles and practice of governments. She made a stand, not for herself only, but for the world, and looked beyond the advantages herself could receive. Even the Hessian, though hired to fight against her, may live to bless his defeat; and England, condemning the viciousness of its government, rejoice in its miscarriage." Rights of Man, Part II. (1792), p. 2. government,* and such as I am very willing to lay before you, that we may consider the particulars dispassionately, and at leisure. A. The two most striking features in the new government of France, are the abolition of all titles of nobility, and the assumption of the whole power of the state by the National Assembly, without allowing an effectual negative to any other body of men, or to the king; whereas we in this country are so used to the idea of the balance of three powers, that we are apt to think no other system can be so good. B. This is a very general opinion, and was my own. But perhaps we have not sufficiently considered either the late situation of France, the origin and use of nobility, or the proper nature and use of checks upon public resolutions. The affairs of France were evidently come to a great crisis, in consequence of their enormous public debts, and the excessive power of the crown, which are in a great measure cause and effect to each other. The king, the nobility, and the clergy, were evidently all interested in perpetuating the abuses; and consequently to have allowed an absolute negative to any one of them would have defeated every project of effectual reform. It was therefore wise in the leaders of the people, who are the many, to remove this certain obstruction from the few, to measures calculated for the general advantage. Without this previous step, nothing of consequence could have been done. A. It always appeared to me that France was the last country in Europe in which we could expect any such revolu "One of the great advantages of the American revolution has been, that it led to a discovery of the principles, and laid open the imposition, of governments. All the revolutions till then had been worked within the atmosphere of a court, and never on the great floor of a nation. The parties were always of the class of courtiers; and whatever was their rage for reformation, they carefully preserved the fraud of the profession. "In all cases they took care to represent government as a thing made up of mysteries, which only themselves understood; and they hid from the understanding of the nation the only thing that was beneficial to know, namely, that government is nothing more than a national association acting on the principles of society." Rights of Man, Part II., pp. 13, 14. Mr. Cooper, having exposed" the favourite maxim so steadily adopted and practised by the rulers of the earth, that society was instituted for the sake of the governors, and that the interests of the many were to be postponed to the convenience of the privileged few," adds, "America has begun upon the opposite maxim, that society is instituted, not for the governors, but the governed; and that the interests of the few shall in all cases give way to the many: that exclusive and hereditary privileges are useless and dangerous institutions in society, and that entrusted authority shall be liable to frequent and periodical recals. It is in America alone that the sovereignty of the people is more than a mere theory: it is here that the characteristic of that sovereignty is displayed in written constitutions." Memoirs of Priestley, (1806,) pp. 356, 357. See Vol. IX. p. 4, note ↑. tion as hath lately taken place in it; the court having been long in possession of all the power of the nation, and the great body of the people having no voice at all in any public measures. B. In general it is only on such great emergencies as these that the sense and power of the people can make themselves felt; and even this great occasion would have passed over without any such happy consequence, if the minds of the people had not been previously enlightened on the subject of government, so that they could go a once to the proper source of their abuses. Without this, the late embarrassment in the finances of France would only have terminated in a national bankruptcy, and would not have produced any change in the form of its government. Notwithstanding the great force of every nation consists in the mass of the common people, who cannot receive any material favours from the executive powers of the state, and therefore cannot be much influenced by them, yet they are in general so wholly occupied in their own affairs, that they are incapable of attending to any thing else, and therefore nothing but extreme oppression will rouse them to action; and when they are roused, their proceedings are generally irregular and ineffectual, both from their not knowing the true sources of their grievances, and from their inability to act in concert. Well knowing this their situation, when they have no person in whom they can put entire confidence, they often bear the extreme of oppression without looking to any remedy at all, while their governors enjoy all the valuable effects of their industry. In this country, where we do not complain of oppression, because it is partial, an enormous proportion, it is thought two-thirds, of the fruit of its industry is at the absolute disposal of government, and this was very much the case with France. A. This being a most unnatural state of society, its expenditure bearing a most unreasonable proportion to its resources, it is certainly of importance to inquire into the causes of it, in order to discover in what manner so great an evil may be guarded against in a new government, or remedied in an old one. B. Since this profusion of the public money arose from other persons than those whose industry acquired it having the disposal of it, it would certainly have been prevented if this latter class of citizens, viz. the industrious, by whose labour the wealth was procured, either had the management of public business, or a sufficient controul over those who |