Mr. W.
Grenville.

Mr.W.Pitt.

Mr. Sheridan.

Lord John

Mr. W. Grenville oppofed the motion for the amendments, on this ground: if the book was any authority to support the House, in saying, that there "was reafon for believing," &c. it was furely as good authority for faying, that "it appears;" and confequently it was good authority for the fum fpecified. He thought the amendments would defeat the object of the address; and the public would see them in that light,

Mr. W. Pitt was of the fame opinion; and he faid, that though the books might have originally ftated the fum in queftion to be near 50,000,000l and yet ftated it now at 44,000,000l. this was no argument against the authenticity and correctness of the book; because the very mention of the subject by him about three months ago, had made Government fo expeditious in paffing accounts, that they had paffed as much fince as made the difference between 50,000,000l. and 44,000,000l. Mr. Pitt was pleased that the objection had come from Mr. Sheridan, for it would have been confidered as an infult on the noble Lord at the head of the Exchequer, if any perfon on his fide of the House had prefumed to queftion the authenticity of a book which he had prefented to the House.

Mr. Sheridan retorted with feverity, and ftated the manner in which the book was compiled.

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Lord John Cavendish faid, the fum had been funk from Cavendish. 50,000,000l. to 44,000,000l. not by the paffing of any accounts fince, but by the difcovery of errors in the book, by which fums had been ftated as not having been paffed before the Auditors of the Impreft, which had afterwards been found to have, in reality, been audited by them; and he was convinced that there were ftill many more errors in the book: this was a reason why he would not vouch for its correctness, and why the Houfe ought to adopt the amendments. He faid at the fame time, that he would advise gentlemen not to be led away by the hope that much money was to be recovered by compulfory means: or indeed that compulsory means ought to be used on many occafions; great parts of the fums were due fince the year 1746; in many cases not more than one fhilling was ftated as due, in others 50l. these fums were due in Germany, and he was of opinion the Houfe would scarcely believe it adviseable to go to the expence of fending to Germany to recover these paltry fums.

Mr.

Mr. Arden contended, that there could be no reasonable Mr. Arden. objection to the motion, that it tended not to commit the House in the smalleft degree, and that if the objections urged had any validity, the blame of not having a more authentic account, of the money unaccounted for, before the Houfe, than the book upon the table, lay wholly with the noble Lord at the head of the Exchequer. In order to jus tify this affertion, Mr. Arden went into a detail of all the proceedings that had taken place upon the fubject. He read the original motion of February 28, and then argued that the book anfwering the defcription ftated in that motion had been officially prefented at the bar of the House by the Chancellor of his Majefty's Exchequer. After dwelling upon this for fome time, he faid, it was a matter of great furprife to him that after the noble Lord in the blue ribband, who had been at the head of the Exchequer, and after an honourable Baronet, who had for many years been at the head of the Treafury, who were certainly the most competent to speak to fuch a queftion, of any gentlemen prefent, fhould have delivered their fentiments, and declared, they had no objection to the motion, that an honourable gentle man, at this time a Secretary to the Treasury, fhould take upon him to start objections, and attempt to throw difficulties in the way of an addrefs, of the most unexceptionable fort, that ever was moved in Parliament. If the address were not agreed to, the world would judge what conftruc tion ought to be put upon the conduct of thofe who opposed it. The facts ftated in that addrefs were indifputably of the first importance; and to endeavour to conceal them, were to miflead and deceive the public in a matter refpecting which they ought to have immediate and full information.

Mr. Sheridan profeffed he had no with but to keep the Mr. Sheripublic from being deceived. He thought it right that notice dan. fhould be taken of the circumftance, but not in the way proposed in the motion.

Mr. Fox faid, he would adopt the amendments in prefe- Mr. Fox. rence to the original motion, because he preferred truth to falfehood; it was true that he had reason to believe great fums were ftill to be accounted for ;" but it would be a falsehood to affert, when no authentic document was before the Houfe, that "it appears" to the Houfe, that great fums are ftill unaccounted for; and ftill more falle would it be to ftate thefe fums to amount to 44,000,000l. But the right honourable member probably had his views for ftating a Ss 2

1pecific

specific fum; fuch, probably, as thofe perfons had, who when his noble relation, (Lord Holland) had about 400,000l. of the public money in his hands, called him the public defaulter of unaccounted millions; and said, that he had 40,000,000l. ftill in his hands to account for.— Fifty millions of public money, unaccounted for, had been roundly afferted to be the fum that the motion of the 28th of February would bring to light. The right honourable gentleman, who made the motion, had now chofen to fay, he had talked only of forty-nine millions, and lo! the book upon the table, in proof of the authenticity of which the Houfe had heard fo much from the other fide of the Houfe, ftated only forty-four millions, of which the right honourable gentleman had himself declared, he did not think the ONE HUNDREDTH part of the fum was recoverable, or much of it due. Having put this in a point of view that flashed conviction with it, Mr. Fox took notice of the manner in which the book had been brought forward, and faid, if he were obliged to pafs an opinion on the fact, he should certainly declare, that his noble friend did wrong to prefent the book at all. His noble friend's well-known, extreme candour, and his wifh on all occafions to please every person, added to the idea, that producing fuch a book might gratify the curiofity of the Houfe, were certainly reafons that obviously accounted for his noble friend's having been induced to prefent the book at the bar. But if he had been confulted, he fhould certainly have advifed the noble Lord not to have brought it in; and he was perfuaded, if his noble friend had taken more time to confider of the matter, and it had occurred to his mind, that fo ill an ufe was likely to be made of the book, when prefented, he would have been of the fame opinion. After urging this very ftrongly, Mr. Fox observed, that it was a little extraordinary that the right honourable gentleman who moved the addrefs, and his friends who fupported it, fhould fo loudly and fo vehemently complain that Minifters were averfe to enquiry, and that they were determined to oppofe every propofition of reform, when neither his honourable friend who had proposed the amendments, nor any other person who had spoken in favour of them, had made the leaft oppofition to the main object of the addrefs. To that nobody objected. The amendments would neither prejudice nor diminish it. Confidered as an enquiry, with a view to prospective regulation, the book apon the table was every way adequate. If the en

quiry was meant to be retrofpective, undoubtedly the book! was not a ground of fufficient authenticity to reft a proceeding upon. But to what purpose go into a retrospective enquiry, where there was fo fmall a hope of benefit?

"

Mr. W. Pitt fpoke in answer to Mr. Fox, and an unin- Mr.W.Pitt, teresting debate took place between them.

The firft amendment was put and carried.

Mr. Arden oppofed the fecond amendment, because it was Mr. Arden. impoffible for that Houfe to fay that 44,000,000l. were not. unaccounted for. Mr. Arden begged the Houfe to attend to the meaning of the words, "unaccounted for," and not to fuppofe he meant to infinuate that 44,000,000l were duc. He declared, whoever had at any time fuggefted that the late Lord Holland was a defaulter of unaccounted millions, with a view to the having it fuppofed that he ftood indebted many millions to the public, did extremely wrong. He wished not to mislead. He thought the public ought to know the fact as it was; that there was no occafion for all this tendernefs about the 44,000,000l. and therefore he fhould give his negative to the amendment then under confideration.

Lord John Cavendish faid the book was avowedly a falfe Lord John ftatement. The compiler knew it to be fo; but there had not Cavendish. been time for fufficient correction.

Lord Mahon blamed the noble Lord for bringing forward Ld. Mahon. a false statement.

Sir Jofeph Mawbey fpoke for the motion as originally Sir Jofeph propofed. Mawbey.

The Honourable Mr. Frafer declared he did not rife to The Hon. throw fhades, much less to darken the lights thrown on the Mr. Frafer. subject of debate by the honourable gentleman who had just spoke; but he rofe to applaud the zeal of the right honourable gentleman who moved the fubject of the present difcuffion, and, if poffible, to applaud ftill more the candour of the noble Lord who had juft laid the book of accounts in queftion upon their table, in the manner he had done it; and farther, as a fimple individual, to obferve, he could not give a filent vote on the occafion. The book in question might, and doubtless did, contain many truths; but the book itself had been fo much fought after, that, although he had watched for near two hours, he had not caught the moment that he could caft his eyes on it; and he was now called to give his affent to there being 44,000,000l. of public money unaccounted for. Mr. Fraser said, he was very ready to fuppofe there were large fums, great fums, enor

mous

Mr. Demp-
Aer.

Gen. Smith.

Mr. Brett.

Sir Adam

mous fums - he would go farther he would fay there were exceffive fums unaccounted for or he would agree to any fuperlative expreffion, the English language was capable of, but he could not give his voice for any specific fum; and as there were other gentlemen who might feel as he did, he hoped the addrefs would pafs in general terms; and for the reasons he had already given, that the infertion of no specific fum would be infifted on.

General Smith was precifely of the fame opinion with Mr. Frafer; as was Sir Grey Cooper; but the Marquis of Graham and Sir Jofeph Mawbey were against the amendments, which however were at length carried without a divifion.

July 15.

Mr. Dempfler brought up a report from the Committee appointed to enquire into the cafe of the officers of the regiment raised by Colonel Erfkine on the borders of Swifferland. The report was very favourable to the clain of these officers. Mr. Dempfter faid he would not take up the time of the House in ftating the diftreffes of thefe unfortunate gentlemen, whofe fituation called for fpeedy affiftance; he therefore moved an addrefs to his Majefty to order them fuch relief as to his wifdom fhould feem meet; and to affure his Majefly that the House would make good the fum that his Majefty fhould order.

The Marquis of Graham feconded the motion.

General Smith thought that this application ought not to have been made to Government, but to the Eaft-India Company, for whofe fervice, and on whofe account the regiment in question had been raifed. He was also of opinion, that if the motion fhould be carried, it would probably produce a claim from two Hanoverian regiments, that were precisely in the fame predicament with the Swiss regiment that made the fubject of the motion.

Mr. Brett faid the application was, in his opinion, very ill timed, as it was made on the very eve of the prorogation of Parliament, when fcarcely a fufficient number of members could be collected to make a Houfe; he thought therefore that the bufinefs ought to be poftponed to another feffion, when it might undergo a thorough inveftigation.

Sir Adam Fergufon faid the bufinefs had been mentioned, Ferguson. and a Committee appointed ten days ago to enquire into it, fo that no gentleman could be said to be taken by furprife on

the