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reasons why they cannot depart from them; and if after such second conference, the other House resolve to insist upon disagreeing to the amendments, they ought then to demand a free conference, at which the arguments on both sides may be more amply and freely discussed. Should this measure prove ineffectual, and after several free conferences neither House can be induced to depart from the point they originally insisted on, nothing further can be done, and the bill must be lost."
Whenever a conference is demanded of either House, it is the sole privilege of the Lords to name the time and place at which it shall be holden. The Commons may, if they see any inconvenience either in the place or time appointed by the Lords, disagree to the holding of the conference under those circumstances, and may state to the Lords their reasons for not complying with their request; it then rests with the Lords if they think
proper to change the time or place; but in no case will the Lords permit the Commons, nor indeed have the Commons ever claimed the privilege, to name the place or time of meeting. It has not of late been customary for either House in demanding a conference, to acquaint the other House with the number of managers they have appointed; but whenever this is done, the form is, that the number of the Commons named for the said conference, are always double to those of the Lords.?
The House which ask the conference, should in their message clearly express the subject matter upon which the conference is desired; or the omission will be a ground for refusing the request.3
If the reasons alleged on both sides, fail of their effect to induce either House to desist from that measure which is the subject matter of the conference, nothing remains but to hold a free conference; which admi a more liberal discussion the question under consideration, and gives an opportunity for the managers individually, and not restrained by any precise form of argument, to urge such reasons as appear to them to be of weight to support the cause in which they are engaged, and may best tend to influence the House to which they are addressed.
After one free conference, no conference but a free conference can be holden touching the same subject;
1 4 Hats. 49, 50. 24 Hats. 50.
3 4 Hats. 50, 51. 4 4 Hats, 53.
unless some question of privilege, or of the order of proceeding should arise from the conduct of any of the managers, or of either House to the other, or that some alteration should have been made in the matter as it stood at the former free conference; in that case a conference, not a free conference, may be demanded upon that particular matter.?
The same forms are observed, mutatis mutandis, when Proceedings the bill begins in the House of Lords; it being transmitted where the bill to the Commons by two of the assistants, who, after three originates in the congees at the table, inform the House that the Lords have passed such a bill, and then read the title. Should they meet the Speaker at his entry into the House, they must not deliver the bill to him, but must carry it themselves into the house; and upon an occasion of their doing otherwise, the bill was returned to the Lords.3 When both Houses have done with any bill, it always is deposited in the House of Peers, to wait the royal assent; except in the case of a bill of supply, which after receiving the concurrence of the Lords is sent back to the House of Commons.
The greater part of these regulations are applicable to Regulations pebills of supply (or charge upon the subject) the same as culiar to bills of to other bills. Certain regulations, however, are peculiar Supply. to the latter, which will now be stated.
Bills of supply must originate in the Commons. And pursuant to an order of that House, on a motion for any public aid or charge upon the people, a day is named for considering the proposition; when it is referred to a committee of the whole House, whose opinion must be reported before any resolution or vote can pass. And this, whether to charge the subject is the sole object of the bill, or that of a particular clause only; whether the charge is by way of tax, or penalty for an offence; and whether its imposition is direct or indirect.6
1 4 Hats. 51.
3 D'Ew, 668. 9 D'Ew. 45.
4 24 July 1660. 5 18 Feb. 1667. The following also are standing orders-1. The House will not proceed upon any petition, motion, or bill, for granting any money, or for releasing or compounding any sum of money owing to the Crown, but in a committee of the whole House : (29 March, 1707.) 2. No bill shall be ordered to be brought up for any work proposed to be carried on by tolls or duties to be levied on the subject in particular places, till such petition has been referred to a. committee, and they have examined the matter thereof, and reported the same to the House : (11 March, 1716 ; 28 Feb. 1734.) 3. The House will receive no petition for any “sum of money relating to public service, but what is recom-. mended from the Crown. (11 Dec. 1706; 11 June, 1713.)
6 24 Feb. 1784.
Hence where, after the report, an additional tax is proposed, it cannot be by way of ryder in the first instance, but the bill must be recommitted. So upon the report of a stamp bill, a clause offered for repealing an exemption altered by a former act, after having been read twice, was withdrawn : since, though the object of the bill was only to prevent frauds, the effect of it would be to tax persons who by the former act were exempted from this duty. And though on a report from the committee of supply, the House increased the duty imposed by one of the resolutions ;4 yet this proceeding has always been deemed highly irregular.5
In like manner, where pecuniary penalties are to be inflicted (whether by a new clause or by filling up blanks), the House has been particularly cautious not to do this on the report of the Speaker in the chair; but to commit the clause in which such penalties are to be inserted to a committee of the whole House; or if that is thought inconvenient, to recommit the bill to the committee from whence it was reported, that the imposing of these pecuniary fines might at least receive the consideration and sanction both of a committee and of the House. And the precedents to the contrary7 are considered irregular.
The clausė, however, for appropriating the monies granted in the session, may be added on the report of the bill of supply. And so likewise may the report be amended by a different appropriation.10
To this rule (not to impose a charge upon the subject, except in a committee of the whole House) almost the sole exception is, when the House address the Crown to advance money for any particular purpose, and give assurances that the expenses so incurred shall be repaid out of the grants of the next session. This practice, indeed, has generally been confined to small sums, and to services the amount of which cannot at the moment be exactly ascertained. It has also been used, for the most part, at the end of the session, when the committee of supply is closed, and when the sum required has not been thought of magnitude sufficient to adopt the form of
1 24 Feb. 1784.
7.10 May, 1714; 11 June, 1714;
5 Feb. 1745; 24 April, 1759 ;
18 May, 1772.
opening it again. However, as this proceeding of voting money by address is oontrary both to the words and spirit of the standing order of 1667, it is a practice which the Speaker and those members who wish to preserve the credit and authority of the House of Commons ought to discourage, and noi to permit it to be wantonly adopted or without apparent necessity.”
But though a sum cannot be increased unless in a committee of the whole House, the House has always thought itself competent, without the intervention of a committee, to lessen the sum proposed, and thereby lighten the burdens of the people ;8 so likewise to strike out a penalty clause.4
In amending a bill of supply, the particular clause only in which the amendment occurs, need be recommitted. And upon recommitting the bill to add a tax, leave may be given to offer the clause (e. gr.) upon the third reading, when it is added by way of ryder.
When a question is raised between a greater or lesser sum, or the longer or shorter time for its liquidation, the lesser sum and the longer time shall first be put to the question. And the usage of the House, in compliance with this order, is, that if two sums are proposed to be granted to the Crown, or in the consideration of any public service, as of the army or navy, the number of men moved to be voted is different, or if, in the conmittee of ways and means, a larger and smaller tax are proposed together,—the chairman of the committee, without considering the smaller sum in the form of an amendment to the
1 6 March, 1706 ; 20 July, 1715; 16 June, 1721 ; 18 April, 1748. 23 Hats. 177. 179. General addresses of approbation and support of any measure recommended by the Crown, either by a speech from the throne, or by a message, do not come within this observation. The House may express their concurrence,
and may promise their aid and assistance, without first considering the su ect in a committee of the whole House. But the specific sum to be voted, or tax to be imposed, must, by the standing order of 1667, be resolved upon by a committee of the whole House. 3 Hats. 179, in notis. 3 3 Hats. 180, 181.
4 April, 1770. 5 2 March, 1784. 6 This relates to the mode in which subsidies, the ancient manner of granting aids to the Crown, were given. The custom was, to give so many subsidies, to be levied in such a time; and the longer that time was, in which the subsidy was to be collected, the easier for the subjects. This manner of granting aids being changed long ago, the effect of this part of the order is dropped with it. The spirit, however, and meaning of the rule have been preserved, in several instances which have occurred, where a dispute arose touching the time of the commencement of a tax; there the later time at which such tax should be proposed to have its beginning, has had the precedency, and has been put to the question before the earlier, though the earlier was first proposed. 3 Hats. 185, 186.
13 Nov, 1675.
question, immediately states the question with that lesser sum, the fewest number of men, or the smallest tax; and if that is carried in the negative, he then puts the question again, with the next smaller sum proposed.?
With respect to amendments by the Lords in bills of by the Lords in aid and supply,-1°. As the Lords cannot begin them, so bills of Supply. they cannot make any alterations either as to the quantum
of the rate, or the disposition of it; or indeed any amendment whatsoever, except in correcting verbal or literal mistakes; and even these the Commons direct to be entered specially in their journals, that the nature of the amendments may appear, and that no argument, prejudi. cial to their privileges, may be hereafter drawn from their having agreed to such amendments.2
20. In bills which are not for the special grant of supply, but which however impose pecuniary burdens upon the people-such as bills for turnpike roads, for navigations, for paving, for managing the poor, or for rebuilding churches, &c. for which purposes tolls and rates must be collected; in these, though the Lords may make amendments, these amendments must not make
alteration in the quantum of the toll or rate, in the disposition or duration of it, or in the persons, commissioners, or collectors appointed to manage it.”
3o. Where the bill or the amendmeuts made by the Lords, appear to be of a nature which, though not immediately, yet in their consequences will bring a charge upon the people, the Commons have denied the right of the Lords to make such amendments, and the Lords have acquiesced.
4o. The Commons assert, that the Lords have no right to insert in a bill pecuniary penalties or forfeitures, or to alter the application or distribution of the pecuniary penalties or forfeitures which have been inserted by the
Commons.5 Mode of return- The practice in returning bills of supply from the Lords, ing bills of Sup- that the Speaker may present them to the throne, is, not ly.
to send them back by the masters in Chancery, but for the clerk of the House of Lords to deliver them privately to one of the clerks belonging to the House of Commons: and if there is any doubt which are or are not bills proper for the Speaker to present, the clerk of the House of
13 Hats. 183, 184. 23 Hats. 153, 154. 33 Hats. 154, 155.
4 3 Hats. 155. 5 3 Hats. 155.