let into the market, the more recruits you are likely to obtain, and at a small bounty. The noble lord tells us too, that it was the intention of the late Mr. Pitt to make an addition of 20 or 25,000 men to the army. And in fact, I have no doubt that my right hon. friend will propose, not only to leave no deficiency in the effective force already considered proper to be kept up, but will suggest any farther increase that may appear necessary.

It ought to be remembered that, with the exception of Russia; a power, however, whose alliance, desirable and important as it is, must be confessed to be too remote for producing a decisive impression on the continent, we have no ally whatever of any consequence, willing to fight for us. Such is the prosperous situation the noble lord de-. scribes. When this is considered, and the state of the continent is taken into view, it must be allowed that it is time to think of increasing our army. Both for the purpose of war, and what must be the establishment of any peace likely to be obtained, it is proper that the subject of the army should be maturely weighed. Indeed, by the circumstances of Europe, I am ready to confess that I have been weaned from the opinions I formerly held with respect to the force that might suffice in time of peace; nor do I consider this as any inconsistency, because I see no rational prospect of any peace that would exempt us from the necessity of watcliful preparation and powerful establishments. The subject of the army, therefore, must come before us in different shapes, and present itself in different views. If we cannot obtain a safe and honourable peace, of which it is impossible, in the actual state of affairs, to be sanguineand if we do not obtain, in carrying on the war, that species of success hardly to be calculated upon, we must be reduced to that state which I, for one, cannot contemplate without apprehension of being, with respect to Europe, the Britannos toto orbe devisos, and be left to our own resources and our own colonial connections, or be compelled to cultivate a system the most uphill, the most difficult, and the most perplexed, particularly after the ill success of our late continental measures, which it is possible to conceive. Yet, perhaps, upon the whole, I am more inclined to the la ter system, difficult and unpromising as it is. But if we do resolve to engage in that arduous and difficult struggle, demanding every effort and every exertion, or indeed upon whatever other system we resolve fo

act,

1

act, a large army is indispensible. Even while foreign powers court our money, they feel a degradation in accepting it, and they do not view us in a favourable light under such a connection. But whether we can have an army adequate to home defence and to foreign operation, may be doubtful. Yet I will say, that while we take due precautions for home defence, by training the population to arms, the true policy of the country is to rise superior to the panic of invasion, and to shew that our force and our courage are not to be confined at home. Our enemy shews us, that by disregarding the danger of particular points, and by directing his forces where the occasion demands them, he has been able to spread his dominion, and to subdue his opponents. If that system to which I have alluded were to be adopted, a great army must necessarily be maintained. In England and Scotland, I am confident the plan proposed will have the most powerful effect on the recruiting service; and, if measures could be adopted for completely conciliating the people of Ireland, it would present a nursery of brave and excellent soldiers, more faithful, in propor tion to its population, than any prince in Europe pos

sesses.

Lord Castlereagh and Mr. Fox mutually explained.

Mr. Yorke deprecated the introduction of party spirit into discussions so intimately connected with the safety of the country; and professed, that it was by no means his wish to embarrass ministers by any observations which he might think it necessary to make on the plans that had been now submitted to the House. But he could not help wishing such a radical change of system as that which had been proposed, should be postponed to a period of peace. It might be dangerous to make new experiments in time of war, the consequences of which could not be foreseen. Our army at present seemed large enough for internal defence, and the protection of our colonies, and there was little probability of its being soon employed in continental operations. He could not approve of the repeal of the additional force act; it had already produced a consider able number of men, and was likely to raise more; he could not therefore consent to its repeal before a more feasible plan was adopted; and it did not appear to him that recruiting alone would be sufficient to keep up the army. The army of reserve were raised only for a limited term of years, yet it was found difficult to induce men to enter that service, and desertion

desertion was more prevalent among them than among the regulars. It did not appear, therefore, that this species of service was calculated to prevent desertion. Besides, even at present, the services of the soldier are only required during the military age, and none were retained beyond 24 years. This part of our system was formed on the Roman model, and it would surely be granted that the Romans carried the military art to high perfection. It was a wish expressed by the honourable gentleman near the commencement of his speech, that the army should consist of men who were soldiers complete, from top to toe, bnt that could not be obtained by limiting the period of service. The limited period of service was the very cause that made the militia inferior to the regulars. Besides, ought not the same principle of limitation of service to be equally introduced into our navy? And would not such a measure be productive of much inconvenience? He then dwelt on the Inconvenience with which this regulation would be attended in our colonial establishments: though he granted that soldiers might feel more disposed to enlist for a second term when abroad, than when at home. Limited service had indeed been introduced into the Austrian armies after the peace of Luneville, but it could hardly be said, from what we had lately witnessed, that they were improved by the change, or that we should feel induced to follow their example. He agreed with the idea of raising, the Chelsea pay, and also thought that a small increase of pay at the end of a limited period, would serve as an honorary reward of merit, that might prove highly useful. The discharge and retirement of soldiers might also be made more easy. But these changes might take place, without materially altering the present constitution of the army. He also approved of enforcing the levy en masse, and thought that though the volunteer system might be defective in many respects, yet it would be impolitic and unpopular to lay it aside. He trusted, that so large a body of men would not have reason to be disgusted by any regulations that might be brought forward. He concluded by expressing his satisfaction, that the right honourable gentleman had brought forward his plan before the recess. There would be full time for re-considering it in all its parts, and he hoped, that ministers would again consult with military men on the subject of limited service, several of whom, VOL. I. 1806-6.

4 M

and

and in particular, Sir John Moore, he mentioned as disepproving of it.

General Norton supported the principle of the additional force act, and stated some strong instances of its effect in the regiment which he had the honour to command. Out of 755, of which the second battalion was composed, 681 were enrolled for general service.

Sir James Murray Pulteney would not give his concurrence to a measure, the certain effect of which would be to produce a very great diminution of the regular force. It went to repeal an act the operation of which was daily increasing, and to substitute for it the dangerous experiment of enlisting for terms of years. It was as plain to him as demonstration could make it, that the proposed plan must produce a less number of men than the present system was calculated to produce.

General Tarleton disliked the plan, because it went to the demolition of the whole of the army of the country. Of all the great measures which had been brought forward, there never was one which had been so imperfectly executed, he would say more, so much thwarted as the defence act. Had that act been carried into execution with the zeal and spirit that it should have been, he felt himself justified in asserting, that it would not only have supplied all the casualties of the army, but placed at the disposal of government a surplus force of at least 20,000 men. When he examined the county returns, he could not help thinking, that some extraordinary circumstances must have counteracted the natural progress of the measure. What were these returns? it would be worth while to look at them. In the North Riding of York-None. Devon, 13. In Surry (there, he was happy to say, the lieutenants and magistrates had done their duty) 539. In Essex, 49. In the county of Berks, where a great noise had been made, 40. And in Bucks, where some exertion might have been expected, the astonishing number of 35! Upon this point he would close his observations, by asserting, that there must either be something extremely defective in the principle of the act, or culpable in the conduct of those who were appointed to carry it into execution, when so enormous and unaccountable a difference could arise in the returns of different counties.

Sir TV. W. Wynne observed, that he could give the honourable gentleman some information as to the patriotic

mode by which the quotas under the provisions of the defence act were raised in many counties. The whole of those which the county of Denbigh (to which he belonged) was obliged to raise, were procured by a crimp, who enlisted them at, Manchester.

Mr. Langham expressed himself in favour of the bill. Earl Temple observed, that charges against officers in a most respectable and highly honourable situation should not be lightly made. An honourable general (Tarleton) had accused some of the most highly confidential officers under government, of thwarting the intentions of his Majesty's ministers, whom it was their duty to support; he had, in fact, impeached them with a sort of under-handed work which thwarted the designs of the legislature for the defence of the country.

General Tarleton, in explanation, said that he did not intend to accuse any lord lieutenant of thwarting the intentions of government.

Colonel Craufurd would not then enter into a detailed statement of his sentiments with respect to the plan now submitted to the House. He could not for a moment suppose, that the right honourable secretary of state (Mr. Windham) had ever entertained the strange idea that seemed to be attributed to him, of suffering men to ask for their discharge, neither could he suppose that the honourable secretary entertained so mean an idea of the character of a soldier as to imagine that he could think of asking for his discharge, while his brothers in arms had military duty to perform.

Mr. C. Dundas stated the causes of the petition from Berkshire, and maintained that the principle of the defence act was impracticable.

Sir W. Young supported the motion.

Colonel Graham said, that since he first entered the army, he had but one opinion as to the extent of the period of service, and that was, that it should be limited.

Mr. Huddleston professed himself friendly to the principle of limited service.

Leave was then given to bring in a bill to repeal the act of the 44th Geo. III.

Mr. Fox postponed his motion relating to the sheriffs of Waterford, to Tuesday se'nnight.

Mr. Leigh was persuaded he could justify the conduct of the sheriffs, from the practice of the Irish laws.

4 M 2

The