MARCH 11.]

DECLARATORY BILL.

851

side of the question. Their lordships might perhaps think that he intruded his opinions ca legal subjects, but he felt confident in his own knowledge, having, with an able attorney at his elbow, read through the whole of the statutes, from Magna Charta to the present time, a piece of drudgery to which he would venture to say, no one who heard him had ever submitted. He had no objection to the enactmentof what the bill stated to be law, if he thought the House, would afterwards pass his bill for the protection of witnesses. He concluded by moving to leave out the declaratory words in the bill.

The Lord Chancellor strongly objected to the mode proposed by his noble friend, of polling the opinions of dead as well as living judges, for the purpose of ascertaining on which side the majority was to be found; as such a system must put an end to the jurisprudence of the country, by rendering of no avail the decision of the judges in any case, unless they were supported by a majority of the opinions. With respect to the declaof judges who were no more. ratory part of the bill, he would give up the bill altogether rather than give up the declaratory part of it, or appear to be merely enacting a law upon a case that was to come. before the House for judgment. If his noble friend would. look over the statutes again, he would find several acts of this description where the law, upon certain subjects, having fallen into doubt, was declared, in order to remove those doubts.

The motion made by Earl Stanhope was negatived.

The Lord Chancellor's amendment, after inserting the word "disability" between "penalty" and "forfeiture" on the suggestion of Earl Stanhope, was agreed to.

Earl Stanhope objected to the words "the Lords Spi-. ritual and Temporal," contending that as the Prince of Wales and the royal dukes took precedence of the Archbishop of Canterbury, the phrase ought to be "the Lords Temporal and Spiritual."

The Lord Chancellor urged the impropriety of making so material an alteration in the form of their bills, a form which had been sanctioned by long and established usage, unless it was done upon due notice, and when all the lords had been summoned; but certainly not upon the sugges tion of the moment, and when only three or four peers were present.

Lord Auckland observed that the noble Earl (Stanhope)

had

had offered no proof whatever of the necessity of any such alteration.

Earl Stanhope withdrew his proposition.

The bill then passed through the committee, and was or dered to be reported the next day.

Earl Stanhope moved that his bill for the discovery of truth should be read a second time next day, and that the lords be summoned.-Ordered.-Adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

TUESDAY, MARCH 11.

The Bristol harbour bill, and the Irish clergy residence bill, were read a second time, and committed for the next day.

Mr. Irwine, from the office of the inspector of the customs, presented an accouut of the duties outstanding from the 5th of January, 1805, to the 5th of January, 1506.— Ordered to lie on the table.

Mr. Tierney presented a petition from the debtors confined in the Marshalsca prison, praying relief.—Ordered to lie on the table.

After the report of the committee on the subject had been presented, Mr. Alexander obtained leave to bring in a bill to continue and amend the powers of the American treaty execution act.

The House resolved into a committee on the report of the expiring laws committee; some resolutions were agreed to.-Report the next day.

The report of the corn bill was agreed to, and the bill was ordered to be read a third time the next day.

The Honse in a committee, entered into a consideration of the Tortola free port bill, upon which a conversation took place between Lord Temple, Mr. Lawrence, and Mr. Rose.-The House resumed, the report was received, and ordered to be reconsidered on Thursday.

Sir C. Bunbury presented a petition from the maltsters of the county of Suffolk, complaining of the injury they suffer from the restrictions imposed by the malt

act.

A similar petition was presented by Mr. Morgan from the maltsters of Warwickshire and Coventry.-Both pctitions were ordered to lie on the table.

Mr.

THE ARMY.

The Secretary at War brought in the mutiny bill, which was read a first time; and upon the motion for the second reading,

General Tarleton asked, to what time it was meant to extend the operation of this act?

The secretary at war replied, to the time for which the estimates on the table were made up, namely, for two months from the 25th instant.

Mr. Fuller said, that there was a class of persons in the country who were particularly affected by one of the provisions of this act, in which some modification was exceedingly desirable.

The Speaker suggested to the honourable member, that the committee would be the proper place to propose the modification he alluded to.

The bill was ordered to be read a second time the next dayt

pay Bills were brought in by Mr. Vansittart, 'for the and clothing of the militia of Great Britain and Ireland also to make provision for the disembodied milltia, and for the subalterns, &c. of the former.,^

These bills were read a first, and ordered to be read a second time the next day.

Ordered, on the motion of Lord Henry Petty," that the honourable Henry Parnell should be added to the committee appointed to examine the joint accounts between" Great Britain and Ireland.

IRISH CATHOLICS."

Mr. Dillon rose to put a question, which he said he felt, to be necessary in the discharge of his duty. In doing so, therefore, it could not be supposed that he was actuated by any idle curiosity. In consequence of rumours which had gone abroad that a change of opinion had taken place among those who had formerly supported the claims of the Catholics, as to the expediency of urging these claims at present, and that the Catholics of Ireland had acquiesced in: the propriety of that change, he thought it highly proper to put this question. It was of the utmost importance to, the tranquillity of Ireland that this subject should be set at rest one way or the other, and he trusted the right hon.. gentleman VOL. L 1805-6.5 Zz D

gentleman would relieve him from his suspense on the subject.

cise answer.

Mr. Fox. Really the question of the honourable gentleman is so extremely vague that I cannot pretend to answer it, for I confess that I do not distinctly understand it, The honourable gentleman has talked of some rumours afloat as to an alteration of opinion respecting the Catholics, among those who formerly supported them; but as I do not know to whom he alludes, I cannot give him a preBut with regard to the rumour that the Catholic body have acquiesced in the reported alteration respecting their claims, I should rather ask the honourable gentleman himself upon that point. So far as I am con cerned in this question, whenever it comes under discussion, I shall be perfectly ready to state my opinion, and all Í think it necessary to say as to my future conduct, is to refer to my past. I cannot, however, hesitate to state, that if any gentleman were to ask my advice as to the propriety of bringing forward the Catholic claims at present, I should, recommend him to take into consideration the prospect of success, and the greater probability of succeeding this year or the next; at the same time to bear in mind the issue of last year's discussion. In the part which I took upon that occasion, I was actuated by the strongest sense of duty but at present I do not feel myself obliged to say any thing more upon the subject.

Mr. Dillon was induced to put the question he had submitted, in consequence of rumours; and he believed that to put a question to ministers upon such a ground, was not unprecedented. He remembered, indeed, the honourable gentleman himself

The Speaker called the honourable member to order, as there was no question before the House.

Mr. Paull postponed till Friday one of the notices respecting the conduct of Lord Wellesley, which stood for that day.

INDIA AFFAIRS.

Lord Ossulston rose, pursuant to notice, to move for a return of the debts of the India Company in India, specifying the time and the terms upon which each debt was contracted, and when and where the principal and interest of the several loans were made payable, from the 5th of January, 1804, to the latest time at which the same could be made out. The noble lord disclaimed any want of confidence

fidence in the views of the present ministers respecting India, or in the disposition of those to whom the govern ment of India was more peculiarly committed. He had not the least doubt that the wish of both was to give every information that could be fairly desired, and that their dis tinguishing characteristic would be rather to promote than to discourage inquiry into every department of the public administration. His object in undertaking a subject of such size and magnitude, was in order to lay before the House and the country the true state of the finances of India, with a view to urge the adoption of measures in due time to guard the finances of England from suffering from the embarrassments of the former. After some comments on the conduct of India affairs, and particularly for the last thirteen years, during which no condition of the India Company's pecuniary engagement with the public had been fulfilled, the noble lord's motion was put.

Lord Morpeth expressed a wish that his noble friend would withdraw his motion, assuring him that it was the intention of ministers to lay before the House the fullest possible information with respect to the affairs of India. In conformity with this intention the noble viscount stated, that he would, in a very few days, submit a motion for a return of all the debts of the India Company; the loans contracted by the several presidencies, and the terms upon which they were made, distinguishing such loans as bore interest, from those which did not, with the terms of interest, when and where payable, &c. up to the latest period, &c. Such an account, he believed, would answer better than that moved for, the object he professed to have in view. There was an additional reason for acceding to a short delay, and it was this, that it would enable those concerned in the immediate superintendance of Indian affairs to collect more accurate information, which they would be most probably enabled to do by farther arrivals.

Lord Ossulston assented to the request of his noble friend. Mr. Francis rose, not to take any part in the discussion\ of this subject, but merely to say, that there was one ques tion connected with the finances of India, to which, notwithstanding his general resolution, as the House had heard, he felt himself bound, and that was the loan made by the government of Bombay to Gwicowar. Upon this loan, however, he should reserve his sentiments, until all the proZz2

mised