up one by one the arguments that have been advanced for and against, and seeks to point out the actual results, both upon labor unions, upon efficiency, upon costs, prices, etc. Q. Have you, Professor, ever seen the reports of this Commission A. I have, sir. Q. Have you seen the advance sheets of the report on wage statistics? A. The one that has been published within the last few weeks, you mean? Q. It has not been published, but a number of advance copies in proof form have been submitted? A. I have not seen that; I have heard of it, but I have not had a chance to look through it. Q. What I referred to is this- A. No; I have not looked through that yet. Q. I was going to ask you whether you found those statistics which we have gathered there in such form as they would serve as the basis of any opinion that you might want to give? A. Not having looked through it yet I should be unable to answer that question except to express my general opinion from what I know of the commission and of the people who have been doing the work that in all probability the statistics would be entirely creditable and valuable. Q. The Commission would be very glad if after you have had an opportunity to examine them, if you desire to give us any further views you will do so in writing at your convenience, so that they can be added to your testimony. By Commissioner DREIER: Q. It has been suggested that it might be desirable to have a minimum wage law for only minors; what is your judgment on that? A. On the principle that half a loaf is better than no bread I should say that that might be acceptable, but in the legislation of this country and in the earlier legislation of all countries, almost from the very beginning women have been put on a par with minors because to a very large extent the same arguments have been thought to apply to each. Of course, personally, I do not believe much in that argument. Personally, I believe that if the minimum wage theory is applicable to minors it is applicable not alone to women, but also to men. We are not ready in this country, of course, for any such application of the scheme as is found everywhere else in the world, but the history of all such legisla tion shows that you begin with the one class and you gradually spread it to all of the workers, and therefore, I should say that while the application of the minimum wage law to minors would be desirable if you can not get anything more, that a carefully devised law ought to be as applicable to women certainly as to minors. By Mr. ELKUS: Q. I might say to you, Professor, for your information, when you examine this report that the information was gathered by an actual investigation of certain industries and particular establishments, and that in each case in order that there might not be an error the facts and figures gathered were submitted to the proprietors of the establishments and they were asked to make any corrections or point out any errors, so that those figures may be taken as absolutely accurate A. Of course there is one point I did not know at all, sir, whether that has been met in this volume, but you will remember that in some of the investigations of similar commissions a difficulty arose from the fact that the returns were predicated only on the amount of wages and the hours which the employees were supposed to receive, and that sufficient attention was not called to the actual period. Q. That point we actually investigated, the actual amount of time spent and the actual amount of wages received in each case, and the employee was followed through the period, and we distinguished rates from actual earnings. By the CHAIRMAN : Q. Professor, early in your testimony you made some reference to factory legislation and that it did not always accomplish the results claimed for it when advocated; you are acquainted, of course, with the legislation which this Commission advocated and which, as a result of its advocacy has been enacted into law; do you consider that legislation wise? A. Are you referring to the New York legislation or the general legislation of this country? Q. I am speaking of the New York legislation and even to be more specific than that, to the legislation which was proposed by this Commission, that is about the only legislation which has been passed during the past four years? A. I think the labor legislation has been moderate and wise. When I spoke of the previous legislation that was passed by Congress during the Civil War and which remained necessarily a dead letter, it was because there were a good many laws in advance of the economic possibilities, and, therefore, they did not amount to anything, but in New York State we have been going ahead piecemeal and it seems to me conservatively, and the results have been proportionately good. By Commissioner DREIER: Q. It was claimed yesterday by some of the manufacturers that the purchasing power of the dollar of the employees whose wage might be raised through a minimum wage law, would not be increased because of the increased cost of living; can you give us any light on that subject? A. If the increased cost of living were entirely independent of the change in the rate of wages it would not effect, of course, the employees of these establishments any more than it would affect anybody else. Insofar as the intimation or the implication is that the minimum wage would lead to increased cost, through a large price, and, therefore, that the employee would lose in prices what she or he would gain in their wages, that argument seems to be largely destitute of foundation, very obviously. First, for the reason that it has not yet been proved that the minimum wage would necessarily increase prices. In fact, we find in the one careful investigation that has been made that the increase of wages in this particular industry- that this increase of wages was divided among three parties, that it did lead to a partial increase in price, that it also lead to a somewhat, although not very marked, diminution in the profits of the employer of that particular industry, and, therefore, I would. say that in so far as an increase of wages would under conceivable circumstances either lead to more efficiency by eliminating the inefficient or in so far as it might even conceivably, where competition was very close and under certain conditions, lead to a diminution of the profits of the employer it would not necessarily then be added to the cost of the consumers, therefore I should say that the argument that the employees loses on one hand what he or she gains on the other is not in anywise true. Commissioner DREIER: Thank you very much. MRS. MARGARET KERR FIRTH 2771 Mr. ELKUS: Now, Mr. Chairman, there is a lady here who wants to say a word out of order in relation to one of the bills which was passed by the Legislature and which she thinks ought to be amended. MRS. MARGARET KERR FIRTH addressed the Commission. MRS. FIRTH: I do not need to go into details about this law; you are thoroughly acquainted with it. I think not one of you would for a moment call this gilded dome building across the way a factory building, I mean the Pulitzer building, yet the powers that be have seen fit to call women printers or men printers for that matter, factory workers. Now there are about 300 women printers in New York city. How many there are in New York State I don't know, but this law affects them materially. It frequently occurs that we are compelled to work a few hours overtime. Our New York ownership do not know when we are going to have to stay and if in accordance with the law they must not keep women overtime, they are not going to employ women because they have to have people that they can keep and they are not going to keep us any oftener than necessary because they have to pay us at the rate of time and a half for overtime, and they don't like to pay any extra wages, so we haven't found it any hardship, and I know in one office positively, that they will not employ women. That is a big type office. They have one or two there and they will take on no additional women for the reasons I stated. On the other hand the newspapers, some of them, have seen fit to bar us out in accordance with that law, and that means cutting us from the highest wages we can receive in our profession. We stand very little opportunity to get the day work in the newspapers, but at night some of us have situations and some of us have been barred from situations and those who are continuing to work at night are working under sufferance. We do not know when the final blow may fall and we may lose it. Now we are not in the ordinary factory class, we are above the six dollar a week people. It takes some degree of intelligence to get into our line of work in the first place and we are not young and no girl can hold a situation on a newspaper, no young girl, and our salary really lifts us out into the salaried class. It is nominally a wage but we find that the extra wage we receive at night, most of us, who work at night, is a sufficient compensation for the night hours, and I personally prefer the night work, because it gives me an opportunity to do things in the day time that I like to do. Aside from this I want to pursue some study at the University and this will enable me to do that. We do not need to be meddled with. We simply want you to recognize that we are human beings capable of fighting our own battle, and not to be moved about as pawns upon the chess board. There is " big six that has done more for us than the whole United States has done as far as that goes. وو Q. Do you think the law prohibiting any work for women at night should be repealed? A. I am not asking for the repealing of that law in general but as applied to women printers. Q. Will you tell us how that could be done? A. Couldn't that law be amended? Q. You mean by exempting women printers? A. Yes. Q. Any one else you think of ought to be exempted? A. If they want to be let them say sc. Q. Anybody who wants to be? A. Yes, I myself think that if this is carried to its ultimate end, there are women who scrub offices at night Mr. ELKUS: We have your idea and are much obliged. MISS JOSEPHINE GOLDMARK addressed the Commission. By Mr. ELKUS: Q. Miss Goldmark will you give us your views about this question, and we will be very glad to hear you? A. Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission, I should like to begin by repeating a few words which I had with Mr. Gompers yesterday after he left the room, as he is unfortunately unable to be here to-day. Mr. Gompers as you will remember expressed some solicitude lest the legislation providing for minimum wages for women if adopted might lead to some disadvantage to the political status of women. He dwelt upon that question and asked several of the witnesses. questions in regard to it. I said to Mr. Gompers, and I wish to repeat here for the record, that women who have this subject at heart must appreciate very much any such solicitude. I said to |