Also where the mutual benefit associations were compulsory, as they used to be, there were deducted from the actual receipts of the person the amount that was taken for his benefit. When it was optional we did not deduct this amount.

Q. Now will you explain what the mutual benefit assessment is ? A. The mutual benefit assessment is an amount of the wages of the persons, varying according to their salary and position, say from ten cents to twenty-five cents, for benefit in case they are ill, for the services of a physician or payment for so many week's illIn this respect the Insurance Department of the State of New York has made an investigation which will be published in the report of the Commission.

ness.

The CHAIRMAN: Compulsory insurance of that kind is done away with so far as corporations are concerned?

Dr. WOOLSTON: According to law.

The CHAIRMAN: The last session of the Legislature did that.

Dr. WOOLSTON: Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN: Was that because money deposited in one or more of the department stores was lost when the concerns failed?

Dr. WOOLSTON: I think that occasioned some stir about the matter.

Now with regard to deductions in the other lines. In the shirt trade, in some Troy factories, the sewing women rent their machines from the firm, and they also pay for the thread they use and sew into the shirts and for their needles. In one place they were taxed for ice water. I deem this an exceptionally mean example, but it is an example showing that you cannot foresee from the rate of a person how much is going to be in her envelope at the end of the week.

We now come to the question of the days and hours worked.

Mr. ELKUS: Was the payment of commission to those ladies in department stores a general thing or an exceptional thing?

Dr. WOOLSTON: It is a matter that varies widely. We found twenty-nine stores where commissions were paid, and we also

found premiums. We also found Christmas gifts and presents which are not commissions.

Mr. ELKUS: Is it so among the larger stores?

Dr. WOOLSTON: Yes.

Now as to the days and hours worked, there is little point in stating the hours that the stores and factories are supposed to keep open, but a good deal of point in finding how many hours the persons whose pay envelopes we had, worked during the preceding week. We found that about 20 per cent. of the people investigated lost a day or more during the week; that about 7 per cent. of them lost about 2 days or more. So there was a considerable deduction from this cause alone. This amount varies. In

the department stores pretty nearly 90 per cent. of the people worked the full week. The situation is worst in the candy industry, probably due to the slack seasons. One-quarter of the people lost a day or more during the week studied.

The CHAIRMAN: Is that loss due to the employer or employees?

Dr. WOOLSTON: I was speaking of the amount of time lost. Why it was lost I shall speak of in a moment.

The legal hours were followed in most cases, except there came a rush order, or except in very busy times of inventory, or stock taking, when persons might be asked to work at night occasionally or on Sunday. We found the twelve-hour day on Saturday very frequently in the smaller stores up-State. We found that in New York city half of the women testified to extra time before the holiday season. Twenty-eight men and 62 women said they had some night and extra work to do during the year. One hundred and four men and 250 women (that is, out of a thousand interrogated on this point in New York city in the stores) said they had some overtime besides the Christmas season.

By Mr. ELKUS:

whom you interIf I have anticiNo, I am very employee a card ask

Q. Now will you explain how these 1,000 viewed were selected out of the large number? pated you, wait until you come to it. glad of interruptions. We handed to each

A.

ing for the name, address, age, conjugal condition, trade ex

perience, whether paying board, etc. For a representative number we wished to have a more detailed interview regarding their trade experience and their domestic conditions. We tried to get a reasonable number in each line, in each factory, from the women and from the men, from the single and from the married, from the foreign and from the native employees. In the main we took the low paid persons because there was very little question as to the success of the persons who got the high rates. We took in the stores and the factories, roughly, about one per cent. of the persons. We tried by taking many persons in many factories to get typical returns.

Q. These people were selected outside of their marital condition and age; they were selected at random? A. Yes.

Q. No particular selection was made? A. Yes. We tried to get people of the various kinds and at the different wage levels up to a reasonable amount. It was not thought necessary to inquire as to the domestic responsibilities of any one who gets 25 or 50 dollars a week. It was assumed that they could live reasonably well.

Q. And these thousand persons were personally interviewed by members of your staff? A. Personally interviewed as to their trade history and as to their domestic conditions. Shall I continue ? Q. Yes. A. We were speaking about hours. I said that legal hours were followed in the main. It may amuse you to know that when the law was changed and we inquired of the New York city stores how they had readjusted their program so as to conform to this law, that several firms three, to be exact I don't wish to exaggerate three wrote saying that they would be pleased to return the hours they observed if we would first tell them what hours were supposed to be observed. We found violations in the factories and stores throughout the State. Quite incidentally we found 143 children working more than 48 hours; 717 women working more than 54 hours in this one week when we struck them; 134 young men between 16 and 18 working more than 54 hours-909 violations in all, quite incidental to our work.

Q. That is in that week? A. In one week.

Q. And this week was selected at random? A. This week fell

between the 15th of September, 1913, and the end of June, 1914. But the violations for stores were found upstate under the new law. It was difficult to get the employe to testify as to violations of hours when a member of the firm was present. And it was impossible to find the violations from the books, except as shown in payment of supper money which we did find.

There are great seasonal fluctuations in these businesses that throw a large part of the people out of employment. They displace from season to season from ten to fifty per cent of the working force. For example, right after the Christmas season in the confectionery industry, 25 per cent. of the working force is thrown out. The drop in wages is still greater. Upstate in the shirt factories we found a fluctuation of 12 per cent. above and 30 per cent. below normal, a total fluctuation of 42 per cent. — I beg your pardon. I have misread. I should say a fluctuation of 6 per cent. above and 27 per cent. below normal, or a total fluctuation of 33 per cent. was found. The fluctuation in wages quoted amounted to 45 per cent. The variations in the wages are greater because in busy seasons all the best workers will be making a lot. In the slack season they will all be running under. So that out of nearly 400 women interviewed in the shirt and box trades, we found that the fluctuations in their wages were about 33 per cent. between prosperous times and dull times. Now fluctuations of 33 per cent. in a wage of $7 a week is a pretty serious matter. It means a standard of living either pretty low or extremely elastic.

In the stores, which are generally supposed to be steady, we found the fluctuations still greater. From the returns given us from 18 large department stores in New York City we found that in their busy season before Christmas they employed about 56,000 people. In their low period during the summer holidays they employed about 35,000 persons. That is a difference of about 20,000 people. Now the normal number of persons in those stores is about 42,000. This is then a fluctuation of 33 per cent. up and 15 per cent. down, or a variation of nearly 50 per cent. around the normal working force of the stores. This is the total fluctuation of the business. But it by no means represents the number of persons who passed through the establish

ments.

This is like the rising and falling in the tide. The number of waves that beat on the beach still has to be spoken of.

In 11 large department stores in New York City, according to their own returns, about 43,000 persons were "hired and fired " during one year. Their average working force was about 27,000. That is the drift amounted to about 160 per cent. of their stable force.

Mr. BLOOMINGDALE: May I ask you to correct the statement of "hired and fired?"

Dr. WOOLSTON: Some of them left voluntarily. Now with regard to the other industries, 2,300 persons in nine New York box factories were employed and left during the course of the year. The average force of these factories was about 800. There were twice that number employed and twice that number resigned or were asked to resign during the course of the year. Their tenure of office was also somewhat brief. One-half stayed only two months or less; only one-sixth stayed eleven months or more. In the candy factories we find the same running through of unstable fluid labor. Of 3,000 employes reported during the year in 10 New York candy factories, we found that 20 per cent. were with the firm ten months or more; 60 per cent. five months or less; 40 per cent less than five weeks. Now obviously there is a great loss of time between jobs, and that is the next point I should like to mention.

Mr. BLOOMINGDALE: Will you state whether your statistics cover those who voluntarily left the stores and those who were discharged?

Dr. WOOLSTON: That was asked for but only in one or two cases did we get that information.

Mr. BLOOMINGDALE: You asked for it but didn't get it?

Dr. WOOLSTON: Couldn't get it.

Mr. ELKUS: May I ask you whether after you obtained all these facts as to each establishment what communication you made to each establishment?

Dr. WOOLSTON: That their records were open to inspection.