the existence of these separate bureaus. I was very much opposed to the legislation which took away from the bureaus of buildings the inspection that is now concentrated in the Bureau of Fire Prevention. The talk of creating some centralized bureau of inspection upon which each of the separate department might make their draft, on the other hand, I think would be absolutely impossible of realization. The inspectors must serve the authority they represent and be part of it. A separate bureau that merely furnishes inspectors on detail for the fire department or for the building department or for the tenement house department, in my judgment, would be very inadequate and insufficient and I therefore prefer your remedy.

Mr. LEACH: If the Fire Prevention Bureau and the Tenement House Department are abolished and the work done under the superintendent of buildings in the different boroughs could not a million dollars per annum be saved?

Mr. McANENY: I am not prepared to say how much could be saved nor do I believe if you speak of functions, that these departments should be abolished. Of course they have functions separate from the superintendent of buildings. But the amalgamation of the three under one head would accomplish the same purpose, it would save a great deal of money.

Mr. LEACH: I went over the figures and I figured a million dollars that could be saved if the building department were to carry on the work of the other departments.

Mr. McANENY: I imagine it would be difficult to arrive at any figures until we got to work on the plan.

Mr. LEACH: With your four years of experience as Borough President, would you say it could be done by the Building Department, that is now being done by the Bureau of Fire Prevention and the Tenement House Department?

Mr. McANENY: Under the sort of Building Department suggested here; yes.

Mr. LEACH: And it would not require a great deal of extra expense, would it?

Mr. McANENY: I think not.

Mr. LEACH: It would save about a million dollars?

Mr. McANENY: Again I am not prepared to subscribe to fixed figures.

By Mr. ELKUS:

Q. Mr. McAneny, to carry out the gentlemen's suggestions further, if all the building departments could be consolidated under one department, the amount saved would be still greater? A. I doubt if the separate departments could get along with very much less force than they have to-day, even if you consolidated them into one department. But I have always believed in the leveling of standards between the boroughs and putting a little more force behind the principles that should govern through them all.

Q. Which would come from a centralized department? A. Yes.

Q. Of course, also, Mr. President, a centralized department would permit of the transfer of employees from one borough to another, which could not be done now? A. Oh yes, they can be transferred now.

Q. From the Department of Buildings in Manhattan to the one. in Queens? A. They can, as between departments, with the approval of the Civil Service Commission.

Q. I mean for temporary purposes due to an extra rush of work? A. That would be possible to a larger degree than at present.

By Mr. LEACH:

Q. It would not be necessary to transfer them if the two departments were abolished, would it? A. When you talk about abolishing something I am talking about amalgamating. Necessarily the employees of the present Tenement Department and Bureau of Fire Prevention would go to the new bureau and be part of its composite force.

Q. Whether there was any necessity for work for them or not? A. I should judge there would be considerable necessity.

Q. My experience has been if there is no work for them and if departments are abolished they must go on a preferred list? A. If the functions were also abolished it would be merely a transfer of functions to a centralized authority.

Examined by Mr. BIRCH HELMS (of the Advisory Council of Real Estate Interests):

Q. Wouldn't it be more possible to work out this plan of consolidation through borough departments to-day? A. I think that that is so if intended for immediate operation-it could be done more easily upon the borough basis to-day than upon the city wide basis.

Q. That is, this general principle of consolidation could be worked out through borough departments and it would be more feasible to-day than through city departments? A. That is my judgment if it is done at once. I think the ulimate basis should be the centralized city department.

By Mr. ELKUS:

Q. That is, your idea is, that legislation should now be enacted transferring the functions of all of these departments into one great department of the city, authorizing the local officials, however, to consolidate the departments as and when they see fit? A. If that authority were given, leaving it to the city authorities, I should think it would be a step forward. The mandatory form I should hope will be held until we get our new charter.

Q. Your idea is, until the new charter comes in you would let it go to the different boroughs, let all this authority go to the different boroughs? A. I think that would be a distinct step forward.

Q. In the new charter you would be in favor of creating a new department? A. That is my view, subject to the debate of the coming year.

Q. So that you want to postpone consolidation for a year? A. Yes; let it stand absolutely for a year, or put it on the borough basis until we are ready to go ahead with the other.

Mr. ROBERT E. SIMON addressed the Commission :

Mr. ELKUS: Mr. Simon, whom do you represent?

Mr. SIMON: I represent a committee of delegates from the following organizations:

MANHATTAN

Advisory Council of Real Estate Interests.
Building Managers' Association.

Citizens' Union.

Fifth Avenue Association.

Harlem Property Owners' Association.

Merchants' Association.

Real Estate Board of New York.

Twenty-third Street Improvement Association.
United Real Estate Owners' Association.
Washington Heights Taxpayers' Association.

QUEENS

Astoria Taxpayers and Business Men's Association.
Flushing Business Men's Association.

Queensboro Chamber of Commerce.

BROOKLYN

Brooklyn Board of Real Estate Brokers.

BRONX

Bronx Chamber of Commerce.

North Side Board of Trade.

RICHMOND

Staten Island Civic League.

A meeting was called at the rooms of the Real Estate Board on November 19th at which were present three delegates from each of these organizations and the following resolution was passed at this meeting:

Resolved; That we favor the consolidation of all Departments and Bureaus now having jurisdiction over the construction, alteration, structural changes in and maintenance of buildings in New York City."

The organizations whose names I read voted in favor of it. The Citizens Union, the Harlem Property Owners Association

and the Washington Heights Taxpayers Association were not in a position to commit themselves but were generally in favor. The Committee asked me to appear here to-day and request that they be given an opportunity to be heard. They have not had an opportunity to study the tentative bill and the real estate interests would like to put up a solid front. They would like to agree upon a definite plan to conserve their interests best and then state what that plan is.

Mr. ELKUS: As I understand your resolution is in favor of the principle and you want an opportunity to work out the details?

Mr. SIMON: Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN:

to us?

How soon will these views be presented

Mr. SIMON: I imagine the latter part of this month.

The CHAIRMAN: Will you present those in writing, Mr. Simon?

Mr. SIMON: The brief can be prepared.

Mr. ELKUS: And have them by the first of December, if possible, or if not by the tenth of December; will that be time enough for you?

Mr. SIMON: I think about the tenth of December will be sufficient?

By Mr. LEACII:

Q. May I ask what your business is? A. Real estate.

Q. And did I understand you correctly when you said that some of these organizations asked you to appear regarding this resolution that was adopted and did not know the contents of the bill? A. No, that is not correct. A meeting was called at the Real Estate Board and the three delegates from each of these organizations were present. The tentative bill of this commission was before the meeting and the purposes of the bill was read. The purpose of the bill apparently appealed to the members of this general committee.

Q. Just apparently appealed to them? A. Did appeal.