letter which I wrote to him the establishment of this Board of Inspections. The Board should be empowered to carry out the orders of all State and City Departments, co-ordinating these orders, and calling attention to conflicts that may arise among them. Thus we would have a clearing house for inspections and orders, instead of eight inspectors visiting the same building, two at the most would answer all purposes, provided they were clothed with the proper authority and supplied with the necessary information.

This would have a beneficial effect in two directions: By means of it the conflict will be reduced almost automatically to a minimum. Also, there would follow a betterment in the efficiency of the inspection itself. The men representing several departments would develop greater ability and become entitled to larger salaries in proportion to the grade of work they did.

We cannot, however, eliminate the duplication because the laws must be carried out. Therefore, comes the second method for relief, namely, legislation. There must be either a combination between more departments under one head, or the establishment of a Joint Board of Inspection. If all departments should place their orders into the hands of such a Joint Board, the officials of which will be autorized to harmonize differences, it would be a great saving to the State and City, as well as the elimination of conflict, which would be greatly appreciated by the citizens. Instead of eight inspectors going into a building and covering a large territory, two inspections would serve the purpose of all the departments, and each inspector would have a small territory to cover. The same kind of ability that serves for one department will serve for several others, and, in cases of special difficulty, consultants, who have exceptional ability, could be called into conference.

Our department has been doing this by personal conferences between the President of the Borough and various Commissioners, as well as similar conferences between engineers and other officials of the various bureaus. We are minimizing the conflict by such friendly co-operation.

During the last few weeks I have received a volume of letters from business men, house owners and taxpayers in general, ex

pressing hostility to the methods as present in use, and a strong desire to see the system rectified.

The Real Estate Board of New York, at a meeting of its Board of Governors, held on May 12, 1914, adopted resolutions with this object in view.

It is my sincere hope that some plan of relief will be quickly decided upon.

Something must be done at once. There is hardly another feature of our city government that requires more immediate

attention.

By Commissioner JACKSON:

Q. You speak particularly as to conflict of orders in relation to doors; has there been any conflict between the Labor Department and the various departments of the city government so far as you know? A. Yes, sir, I have been forced to physically tear down doors that swung out over the sidewalk in this city recently, and they were swung out on the orders of the State Factory Department.

Q. Why was it necessary to swing the door out in the street? A. The man who owns the house puts his door as far out as the law will permit him so that he has more space inside. The door swings in on his own property. Then comes the order of the Labor Department of the state, the wisdom of which I do not question, asking him to swing his door out. The State Factory Department, however, does not advise him to consult the borough authorities and he is not aware of the fact that if he swings that door out I will get after him, because he is hitting people that pass by. The sidewalk belongs to the people and I have to take care of that.

Q. But you agree it is not necessary to swing the door out in the street when he can remove the frame work and swing the door in a vestibule? A. If he received notice at the same time that he receives the other notice that it should not swing beyond the building line it would be different.

Q. Don't you think the ordinary property owner in New York is aware of that? A. He cannot keep track of the frequent changes of laws any more. It is expecting a great deal of the average man.

THE CHAIRMAN: That isn't a new law.

THE WITNESS: The execution of it seems to me new.

Q. Doesn't he know that to swing a door into a thoroughfare is against the ordinances of the city; you don't think there is a conflict there, do you? A. I said I do and I do think so.

Q. Don't you agree that he should know? A. No, sir, I do not. I am talking of the average citizen now.

By Commissioner GOMPERS:

Q. Isn't it a matter of fact that in every phase of human activity for which laws are provided the citizen is assumed to know the law and if he violates the law he is held accountable for it? A. Well, the answer to that is that the laws that are on our statute books the citizen is supposed to be posted about, provided they are executed, but when the citizen gets a simple notice to swing his door out the most natural thing for him to do is to change the hinges and swing them out.

By Commissioner PHILLIPS:

Q. Your idea is that at the time the order to swing the doors. out is given the inspector should caution him? A. He might call attention to the fact that there is a double authority which he should consult before acting.

By Mr. ELKUS:

Q. Do your seriously maintain there is any property owner in New York City who does not know he hasn't any right to encroach on the sidewalk? A. If you would go among them you would think so.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Q. Either that they don't know or don't want to know? A. There are many who don't know. My experience has proven to me that when a man gets an order to swing the door out that is swinging in and gets no other information it is the most natural thing for him to leave that door where it is and by changing the hinges to swing it out.

By Mr. ELKUS:

Q. It doesn't require legislation on that subject; your idea is that if the State Labor Department or any other department ordered the doors swung outwardly they should put on the notice to be careful to see, in complying with this order, that they do not disturb any other rule of any other department, is that right? A. That would not cover all the points.

Q. I do not mean to say that is going to cover every single case. A. It would help out but it wouldn't cover the point.

Q. What I wanted to bring out was this, Mr. President: What you want to have done is to call the attention of the property owner to the fact that in obeying one law he must be careful not to transgress the other law? A. I think it would be very helpful.

Q. That is more of an administrative regulation than it is new law; you don't want new law to bother with that. A. Even then there will be the number of inspections.

Q. I am coming to that in a minute; I want to take up your statements in order? A. I think it would be very helpful.

Q. I am trying to get at a remedy; assuming that all these conditions exist let's get at a remedy; now my first point is take the case of a man who is ordered to have his doors open outwardly, and you concede that is a proper regulation, and your question is that in trying to open his doors outwardly he would get on the sidewalk and he can be ordered off; what I want to know is in order to remedy that all you need to have is a little co-operation between the different departments so that when an order is made requiring doors to be opened outwardly the owner could be notified that in obeying that order he should be careful not to violate any other law or rule and that a notice reading "This does not authorize you to put your doors on the street," or something of that kind would seem to be all that might be necessary in that case? A. I think that would be very helpful, indeed.

Q. Now take the next case you mentioned. You said something about a set of orders regarding a fire escape from the roof to the street? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Of course, you know no city department orders them to put permanent staircase on the street? A. I think that is the order that came to this party. If anything comes within ten feet of the

sidewalk it is an encumbrance and it comes under our jurisdiction and it is an encumbrance which will interfere more or less with the passersby. As soon as this case came to my attention I took the liberty of asking Mr. Miller of the Bureau of Buildings to meet Mr. Hammitt of the Fire Prevention Bureau to talk it over.

Q. What I want to say is, a little co-operation between the two city departments involved would have solved that whole problem? A. It would not change the laws.

Q. The law does not require there should be a stationary fire escape down to the sidewalk; the law specifically requires that the last ladder shall be a balanced ladder which provides for it being ten feet above the sidewalk? A. Perhaps the Commissioner, who is here, who knows more about the detail could answer that better than I.

Q. It does not need legislation to remedy that? A. It does provided the law permits a fire escape to be within ten feet of the sidewalk.

Q. We will call Mr. Hammitt afterwards; now you said there was a great deal of duplication of orders; I am not talking about duplication of inspections, I am not talking about multiplicity of inspections but duplication of orders, and if you have any examples which you know of, of your own knowledge, we would like to have them? A. Duplications?

Q. Duplications, that is where the same thing was inspected by different departments and different orders were given for the identical thing by different departments? A. I have quite a volume of literature and if you would like I will send it over to you. Q. Yes, I would like to have it.

THE CHAIRMAN: Specific cases?

Mr. MARKS: Specific cases.

Q. That is what we are looking for; we hear speeches but we do not get specific cases? A. I have given you some specific

cases.

Q. No, you have not? A. Do you want me to give you the numbers of those places where I had to tear these doors down? Q. That is not duplication. We have had cases where a door had to be opened outward and they had to build a vestibule and