Page images
PDF
EPUB

smeer, but he could not consider that a law to prevent such barbarities could fairly be called petty legislation.

mulated in the person of one clergyman, while so many excellent and deserving curates were left without that fair Mr. Hutchinson said, he would not offer provision to which they were entitled? any objection to the introduction of the The bill which he proposed to introduce bill, and to have it printed, in order to would also go to prevent clergymen havgive an opportunity to those persons ing the cure of souls, and deriving an inwhose interests might be affected by it of come of 300l. a-year and upwards from seeing what were its provisions. At the the living, from holding any other living same time that he did this out of respect at the same time; and further it would to his right hon. friend, he would not con- enact, that any person already holding such ceal his opinion that the principle upon living, and being presented to another of which the bill, proceeded was highly ob-higher value, should give up the former. jectionable. He thought that no existing interests ought to be interfered with, without giving to all the parties concerned the fullest opportunity of being heard on the subject.

Sir J. Newport said, he had heard no arguments which could induce him to withdraw his motion, and as he was convinced of the utility of the measure, he would take the sense of the House on it. The House then divided: Ayes 38; Noes 76.

EPISCOPAL UNIONS IN IRELAND.] Sir John Newport rose to move for leave to bring in a bill to prevent Episcopal Unions in Ireland, and to restrain the granting of Dispensations. The bill, he observed, would secure to the Irish people the residence of their clergy in the parishes to which they were attached, and would restrain archbishops and bishops from making unions of parishes, for the purpose of providing for some of their friends in the church. The extent to which this power was carried would surprise the House; but he would not now enter into any of the details. There was one instance in which a bishop had united six parishes in one county with one situated in another; so that it was certain the clergyman could not be a resident where he might be most required. He would mention only another case, which 'was stated last year in the House by the hon. member for Louth; that a parish producing an income of 500l. a-year, had been united to another of 2882., and these two to a third of 2717., and these three to a fourth of 720., and these four to a fifth, the income of which was not specified, but which was said to be equal in amount to all the others. Was it, he would ask, right that such a power should be allowed to be exercised without restraint? Was it right that church property to such an amount should be accu

These were the outlines of the bill, which he hoped the House would give him leave to introduce.

Mr. Goulburn said, that he had himself prepared a measure on the subject, but he would not object to the introduction of the right hon. baronet's bill. He was glad to find that in some of the points he had the concurrence of the right hon. baronet. But in assenting to the introduction of this bill, he did not wish to be understood as pledging himself to support that part of the measure which related to pluralities.

Leave was given to bring in the bill.

PRIVATE BILLS COMMITTEES.] Mr. Littleton rose for the purpose of redeeming the pledge he had given last session, to submit some resolutions on the subject of the formation of Committees on Private Bills. The House were aware that a committee was appointed on this subject in the last session, and had made a report, and some resolutions were founded on that report and printed; but, owing to the late period of the session, those resolutions had not been disposed of. He was glad the delay had taken place, because, upon a more mature consideration of the subject, he found that one of the resolutions which he then intended to propose would not be so practicable as another course which had been since suggested to him. The House were aware that there were two committees necessary on a private bill. The first was on the petition for leave to bring in the bill, which had to examine whether the usual standing orders had been complied with, and whether all the parties interested had received due notice. In this committee, though its inquiries were only as to certain matters of form, it often happened that there was as much effort made by parties on both sides, as there was afterwards in the committee on the bill itself. The lists of counties

mittee should have the power of awarding costs against the parties who might come before it without sufficient grounds. This he thought would have the effect of reddering the formation of the original com

sent enter into any further details, as he did not anticipate any discussion on this evening. He would, therefore, move the first resolution, with the view of having the whole printed, and would name Wednesday next for taking them into consideration. The following is a copy of the said resolutions:

from which members were selected to con- a private bill, the parties complaining, on stitute committees on private bills, were, petition to the House, might have the subas the House was aware, made out about ject referred to a committee of appeal, twenty-five years ago, by the Speaker. which would have the power of finally Formerly, members were selected from deciding on the whole matter. The sedivisions of counties made by the circuits.lection of this committee should be made But now they were made up from mem- in the same manner as that of the combers serving for the counties, in which the mittee of privileges that was, that it bridge, road, or canal (he mentioned these should be made from members of counties, by way of illustration), the subject of the merchants, &c.; from this body a select bill, was situated, and also of the mem- committee should be chosen like election bers for the counties adjoining. Now it committees, by ballot; and to this com happened, that the persons so selected mittee the complaint against the commitwere, from their local situation, likely to tee on the private bill would be referred. be affected in some way or other by the To prevent, however, any frivolous comproposed bill, and they were found gener-plaints, he would propose, that this com ally either to be all strongly opposed to, or warmly in favour of, the measure; by which it not unfrequently would happen, that the interests of parties adverse to their views might be overlooked. This was an evil to which he thought a remedy oughtmittee more pure. He would not at preto be applied; and to effect this, one object of his resolutions would be, to alter the principle on which lists were made out. He would propose, that a list should be made, consisting half of country members, and half of members serving for remote parts of the united kingdom, as Ireland and Scotland, and in such numbers as would always ensure a sufficient number for a committee. He would have the members of that committee so mixed as to prevent the canvassing which had been carried to a great extent by attornies and other agents for private bills, who would not be likely to know who might be appointed members of such a committee. But then came the great object, to prevent any undue bias for or against the bill. It suggested itself to him, that this might be obtained by allowing parties interested, who might have objections to particular members being on a committee, on the ground of their being in some way affected by the measure before it, to strike off certain members of those appointed, so as to leave a sufficient number for the purposes of the committee; but, on consideration, he thought that this might cause many delays, unless members were compelled to serve on committees when once appointed. His hon. friend, the member for Yorkshire (Mr. S. Wortley), who had great experience on the subject of private committees, had suggested a less objectionable, and, as it appeared to him, a much more effectual course; which was, that where complaints were made against the proceedings of a committee on

1. "That the present distribution of counties, for the purpose of forming Committees on Private bills, prepared under the direction of the Speaker some years ago, has, from the great inequality of the numbers of members contained in each list, and from other causes, bee found ill suited to the object for which it was framed :

2. "That, with a view more nearly to equalize numbers, and to correct too strong a prevalence of local interests on committees on private bills, it is expedient that a new distribution of counties should be made, containing in each list, as nearly as may be, one hundred and twenty members; one half only, or thereabouts, to be taken from the county immediately connected with the object of the bill, and the adjoining counties; and the other half from other counties of Great Britain and Ireland; and that the members serving for such counties should constitute the committee on each bill:

3. "That Mr. Speaker be requested to direct a new distribution of counties to be prepared at the commencement of each session, in such manner as shall be ap proved of by him, conformably to the principle of the foregoing resolution:

4. "That every committee on a private | petition shall be referred, and such sebill be required to report to the House lect committee shall meet for business the bill referred to it, with the evidence the following day at eleven o'clock, and and minutes of the proceedings: continue to sit, de die in diem, until they shall have reported upon the same:

5. "That a committee be appointed at the commencement of every session of parliament, to be called the committee of appeals upon private bills, which committee shall consist of all the knights of the shire, all the members for cities, and such other members as may be named therein; so that the whole number appointed to serve upon such committee shall amount to two hundred at least:

6. "That where any party interested in a private bill, who shall have petitioned the House, and shall have appeared in support of his petition, by himself, his counsel, or agent, in the committee upon such bill, or where the promoters of a private bill shall be dissatisfied with any vote of the committee upon such bill, and shall petition the House, setting forth the particular vote or votes objected to, and praying that they may be heard by themselves, their counsel, or agent, against such vote or votes, such petition shall, together with the report of the committee upon the bill, and the minutes and evidence taken before such committees, be referred to a select committee of seven members of the House, to be chosen by ballot from the committee of appeals upon private bills, which select committee shall hear the arguments of the parties complaining of, and also of the parties supporting, such vote or votes, and shall report their opinion thereon to the House:

7. "That whenever a petition shall be presented, complaining of any vote of a committee upon a private bill, the House will fix a day whereon to ballot for a select committee, to whom such petition shall be referred, upon which day, at a quarter past four o'clock, or as near thereto as the question which may be then before the House will permit, the Speaker shall order the doors of the House to be locked, and the names of the members composing the committee of appeals upon private bills being written upon separate pieces of paper, and put into the glass, the clerk shall draw therefrom the names, until seven members of such committee, who shall be then present, and who shall not have voted in the committee upon the private bill to which the petition refers, shall have answered to their names, which seven members shall be the select committee to whom such

8. "That no member of such select committee shall absent himself therefrom during its sitting:

9. That such select committee shall, if they think fit, after the hearing of such argument, order the party or parties complaining to pay the whole or any part of the costs attending the same, or the party or parties defending such vote or votes a 10. "That the party or parties complaining shall, previously to the ballotting for such select committee, enter into recognizances, him, her, or themselves, in the sum of 100%., and two sureties in the sum of 501. each, for the payment of such costs as may be awarded against him or them."

Lord A. Hamilton did not mean to offer any objection to the resolutions; but, as he understood the hon. member, the committee of appeal would rather have to try the merits of the former committee, than to decide on the question which had been the subject of the private bill. If this were so, he thought it would be attended with inconvenience. He gave his thanks to the hon. member for introducing these resolutions, because there were opinions in the public mind highly prejudicial to the character of committees on private bills.

Mr. S. Wortley could not deny, that there had been instances in which these committees had been guilty of injustice; but, generally speaking, they had done their duty ably and impartially.

The resolutions were ordered to be printed, and the debate upon them was adjourned to Wednesday,

BANK CHARTER Amendment BILL.] Mr. Lushington moved the second reading of this bill. He said it was not his intention to take the discussion now, but the chancellor of the Exchequer purposed moving some important instructions in the committee.

Mr. J. Smith would not agree to suffer this bill to advance a single stage without offering it his opposition. A bill more absurd or ill-digested had never been introduced into that House. It was im possible it could pass in its present form.

Mr. Hume agreed with his hon. friend, that it was impossible the bill should pass

without material amendment. If he al-nience under which the country was at
lowed the second reading to take place present labouring. Now it was his opinion,
without opposition, he should stand com- that the government, and especially that
mitted to the principle of the measure; to part of it over which the right hon. gen-
which he decidedly objected. The bill tleman presided, had, in concert with
was a mere pretence to do something, the Bank of England, added greatly to
when nothing was really meant to be done. the previously existing causes of distress.
He would pay the Bank of England any He felt it to be his duty to point out
sum of money by way of compensation where the great error in their conduct
for the relinquishment of its monopoly, lay, and to show by what means they
rather than give his consent to a measure had aggravated the calamity under which
so defective and delusive as the present. the country had been recently suffering.
Nothing was, in point of fact, conceded The statement which he had to make he
to the public. As the regulations of should divide into two parts. The first
the present bill would prevent country would relate to the mismanagement of the
banks with an unlimited number of part- unfunded debt, and the latter to the mis-
ners from issuing their draughts payable arrangement and mismanagement of the
in London, they would necessarily be so funded debt; both of which had, in his
cramped in their operations, that they opinion, added greatly to the inconve-
might as well be established in Kam-nience of the country. He was now
schatka, for any benefit they could ren-
der to the mercantile world. They
would, in effect, be cut off from all
communication with the metropolis.

Mr. Hudson Gurney said, that being favourable to the objects of the bill, he would not oppose the second reading; but it was obvious that it must undergo a total change in the committee, or be entirely inoperative; as, in its present shape, no parties could possibly act under its provisions. In fact, it was a mere copy of the Irish act of the last session, as garbled to meet the petty-fogging jealousies of the Bank of Ireland. It could not be conceived that such clauses could have originated with a great corporation like the Bank of England. These must necessarily be amended. To the principle of the measure, he repeated, he was entirely friendly.

The bill was then read a second time.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Friday, March 10.

STATE OF EXCHEQUER BILLS, AND TRANSACTIONS OF GOVERNMENT WITH THE BANK OF ENGLAND.] The Chancellor of the Exchequer moved the order of the day for going into a Committee of Supply. On the question, that the Speaker do leave the chair,

Mr. Maberly rose to address the House. He began by observing that, though he had heard a great deal lately of the mischief arising from over-trading, he had not heard it stated that the right hon. gentleman opposite had taken any part in producing any of the inconve

called upon to allude particularly to the manner in which the government had managed the issue of Exchequer-bills. He should suppose, from the ready eagerness with which certain hon. gentlemen came down on an evening to vote away 30 or 40,000,000l. of Exchequer-bills, that they did not know what the nature of those securities was. He was therefore induced, as he should found a strong case upon them, to enter into a description of this species of security. Exchequerbills were bills issued for a debt previously contracted, which was usually denominated the unfunded debt. They were not payable on demand, though they were almost equally pressing and dangerousthey were rather bills on the government, payable at sight. He had a paper in his hand, which had been recently printed, showing exactly at what periods these bills at sight became bills payable on demand. And he ought here to inform the House, that when they were payable on demand, they became receivable as payment for the revenue, and that government, when it was obliged to pay them off, paid them off either in money or revenue receipts. Hence it was, that when government advertised that it was ready to pay off Exchequer-bills, the time was always found to be near that in which the revenue became due. Though he should have some difficulty in stating what portion of Exchequer-bills had been paid into the Exchequer on account of the revenue, he could now show what quantity of bills they had due on particular days, without having one shilling in their coffers to meet them. On the 6th of April, 1825, there

[ocr errors][merged small]
[ocr errors]

7,000,000l. All these sums might have been forced upon the government instead of money in payment of the revenue; and but for the measure he had alluded to on the part of the Bank, in taking up what was called the deficiency bills, that event must have happened. Where was the government to get money to pay the dividends but for the assistance of the Bank? And how was the Bank to give that assistance but by an extensive issue of notes? Then, said ministers, "If you will give us this, of which we are in present need, and if the exchange should take such a turn as to bring a demand for gold, we will give you another restriction act." Had he not a right, then, to call that a dangerous species of paper which produced consequences like these? He should be told, perhaps, that it was useful, because it was easily negotiable. That very facility increased the danger, and in proportion to the ease with which government adapted it to their own purposes, made it unadvisable for the public interests.-But, let the House suppose the country to be placed in circumstances of difficulty. Suppose the Russian army should march (and there was a greater probability that it would than that it would not), how would the government be able to clear the market of this paper, which then would become a positive and sensible inconvenience? What would become of the 24,000,000l. of paper issued by the Bank? If the exchanges which were always hung, as it were, upon a pivot, should turn round and be against this country, by what means could they be restored? The House had been told in one of the triumphant speeches of the right hon. gentleman, that this was the best and cheapest mode of carrying on the public business. This he wholly denied. When he had suggested to the right hon. gentleman, that a gradual diminution should be effected in the amount of Exchequer-bills, and that this species of unfunded debt should be discharged by means of a tax, he had been laughed at; but he was nevertheless sure that it would have been beneficial to the country, and he was sure that many opportunities had occurred of adopting that measure. There was an opportunity when the funds had been raised from 80 to 90. The ministers told the House that there had been a saving of 300,000l. a-year in the interest on the stock which had been reduced; but they forgot to state, as he

were 6,258,000l.; on the 6th July in the same year, 30,000,000l. of these promissory notes, payable at sight, due and receiv. able as money by the revenue. On the 11th of October, there were 20,160,000.; and on the 6th of January, 7,400,000l. of these dangerous promissory notes in existence. This would be sufficient to show the danger which might arise from a too copious use of these securities. He expected to hear from the right hon. gentleman opposite, that this was the ordinary mode of getting money for the government. True, it might have been so; but then there was a wide difference between the time when the restrictions on the Bank were in existence and the present time, when the issues of the Bank were payable in gold. In looking at the debt thus created by the government, he was able to show how dangerous it was, not by putting an imaginary case, but by putting a case as it really had happened. In December last, Exchequer-bills were at 80s. discount. The government saw a depreciation of its paper arising out of its over-issue. No one could doubt that this paper, like any other paper, could be overissued; for the proof of over-issue was discount, as the proof of the contrary extreme was premium. When, however, the Exchequer-bills were at a discount of 80s. the Bank very good-naturedly stepped in, and raised them to par. It was, moreover, at the pleasure of government to raise, whenever it might see occasion to do so, the interest upon this species of security. Notwithstanding all these advantages, they were not able to keep them from depreciation, and on the 14th of February they were again at a discount of 20s. Then the Bank stepped in again, and again the Exchequer-bills were raised to par. Could, it then, be doubted by any man who was acquainted with, or who would take the least trouble to understand the subject, that this species of paper was a most dangerous one to be afloat in the market? It appeared that the Bank had advanced 5,500,000l. towards the payment of the January dividends; and if they had not done so, it was impossible to say what inconvenience the country might not have felt from the immense amount of Exchequer-bills which were then abroad. The returns showed that in July last, the whole amount of those bills was 30,000,000l., that between July and October there were issued 20,000,000l. and between October and January,

« PreviousContinue »