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certaverit. Not to be termed a difference between his majesty and the commons. Rogamus, Auguste, non pugnamus. The Question is not of matter of Privilege, but of Judgment. Let us attend them as lords of the council, and not as lords of parliament.-We do no ways contest or contend with his majesty. The king is no way bound in honour. If writs go forth unduly, they may be controlled without impeachment to the king's honour. It is the act of his inferior officers. It is now come to this question, Whether the Chancery or Parliament ⚫ ought to have authority?

Quest. Whether we ought to satisfy the king in his commandment?

The King's message was that we should consider within ourselves, and resolve of ourselves; then no need to confer with the Judges: if we cannot, then it is fit to be resolved by the Judges. The Judges have judged, and we have judged: what need then of Conference? Let there be no spark of that grace taken from us, which we have had already from his majesty. Let our reasons be put into Articles, and delivered in all humbleness unto him.

Upon the conclusion of this Debate in this manner, the House proceeded to question; and the first was,

1. Quest. Whether the House was resolved in the matter?

And the Question was answered by general voice, That the whole house was resolved.

2. Quest. Whether the Reasons of their proceeding shall be set down in writing?

Resolved, That they shall be set down in writing: and ordered further, That a Committee should be named for that purpose, and appointed first to set them down in writing, and to bring them to the House, there to be published, and to receive their allowance.

house to send for any officer, to view and search any Record, or other thing of that kind, which may help their knowledge or memory in this particular service: And having deliberately by general consent set down all such reasons, they are to bring them in writing into the house, there to be read and approved, as shall be thought fit."

Die Luna, viz. 2 die Aprilis, 1604.

It was then moved, That Committees might be named to take the examination of the sheriff of Buckinghamshire, who was by former order sent for, and now come. And to that end were named, Mr. Solicitor, sir Rob. Wroth, sir W. Fleetwood, sir Tho. Challoner, sir Rob. Wingfield, Mr. Serj. Tanfield, Mr. Serj. Lee, Mr. Yelverton, Mr. Fr. Moore. Who were ap pointed to take his Examination presently.

Sir Charles Cornwallis moveth in excuse of sir Francis Goodwin's absence from the house, and prayeth, " That they would as well in their own judgment pardon it, as witness and affirm his care and modesty upon all occasions to the king, in that he hath forborne, during all the time of this question, to come into the house."

The Examination was presently taken by these Committees, and returned in this form. Interr. 1. Why he removed the county from Aylesbury to Brickhill?

He saith, It was by reason of the Plague being at Aylesbury, the county being the 25th of Jan. at which time three were dead of the plague there. This was the only motive of removing his county.

Interr. 2. Whether he were present at the first Election?

Saith, He was present; and was as faithful to wish this second place to sir Francis Goodwin, as the first to sir John Fortescue: sent sir The Committees were instantly named, viz. Francis Goodwin word, before the election, he sir Rob. Wingfield, sir Geo. Moore, şir Fr. Ba- should not need to bring any freeholders, for con, Mr. Yelverton, Mr. Dyett, sir Fr. Hastings, the election he thought would be without scruMr. Hedley, Mr. Recorder of London, sir Edw.ple for them both; first to sir John, second to Hohby, sir Fr. Barrington, Mr. Wiseman, Mr. Hide, Mr. Fuller, sir Edw. Mountague, Mr. Ravenscroft, sir W. Fleetwood, Mr. Winch, sir Tho. Challoner, Mr. Solicitor, sir Roger Wilbraham, sir John Thynne, Mr. Martin, sir Arthur Atye, Mr. Francis Tate, sir Roland Litton, sir Henry Nevill, Mr. Attorney of the Wards, sir John Hollis, sir Rob. Wroth, sir John Scott, Mr. Hitcham, sir Edw. Stafford, sir John Mallory, 'sir Herbert Crofts, sir Fr. Fane, sir Rd. Molyneux, sir John Hungerford, sir Edw. Herbert. All the Serjeants at Law. Mr. Nath. Bacon, Mr. Hext. To meet this afternoon in the Exchequer-Chamber.

The authority given unto them by the House, was this:

sir Francis. About 8 of the clock he came to Brickhill; was then told by sir George Throck morton, and others, that the first voice would be given for sir Francis; he answered, He hoped it would not be so, and desired every gentleman to deal with his freeholders. After eight of the clock went to the election a great number, there being at the county, **After the Writ read, he first intimated the points of the Proclamation; then jointly propounded sir John Fortescue and sir Francis Goodwin. The Freeholders cried first, A Goodwin, a Goodwin!' Every Justice of Peace on the Bench said, 'A Fortescue, a Fortescue!' and came down from the Bench before they named any for a second place, and desired the Freeholders to name sir

"The House being resolved upon the ques-John Fortescue for the first. Sir Francis Goodtion, That the Reasons of their precedent Resolution, touching the Return, Admittance and Retaining of sir Francis Goodwin as a member of this house, should be set down in writing: these Committees were specially appointed to perform that service, and have Warrant from the

win being in a chamber near, was sent for by the Sheriff and Justices; and he came down and earnestly persuaded with the Freeholders, saying, Sir John was his good friend, had been his father's, and that they would not do sir John that injury: notwithstanding the Freeholders

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would not desist, but all cried, A Goodwin, a Goodwin!' some crying, A Fortescue,' to the number of 60, or thereabouts; the other for sir Francis Goodwin, being about 2 or 300: and sir Francis Goodwin, to his thinking, dealt very plainly and earnestly in this matter for sir Jolin Fortescue; for that sir Francis Goodwin did so earnestly protest it unto him.

Interr. 3. Who laboured him to make the Return so long before the day of the Parliainent?

He being here in London, Mr. Attorney General, the 2nd of March, at his chamber in the Inner Temple, delivered him two Cap. Utlagat, against sir Francis Goodwin; and before he made his Return, he went and advised with Mr. Attorney about his Return, who penned it, and so it was done by his direction: and the Return being written, upon Friday after the king's coming through London, near about my Lord Chancellor's Gate, in the presence of sir John Fortescue, he delivered the Writ to sir George Coppin: and at this time (it being about 4 in the afternoon) and before they parted, sir John Fortescue delivered him the second Writ sealed; sir John Fortescue, sir George Coppin, and himself, being not above an hour together at that time, and never had but this new Writ of Parliament to him delivered. Subscribed, FRANCIS CHLYNE.

This was returned by the Committee to the hands of the Clerk, but not at all read in the house.--Mr. Speaker remembereth the matter of Conference with the Judges, and offered to repeat and put again the Questions that were formerly made; being before uncertainly and unperfectly left (as he said) in the Case of Buckinghamshire, viz. 1. Whether the House were resolved in the matter? 2. Whether they should confer with the Judges? And at length induced the house to cnterfain the latter Question; and being made, was carried by general voice in the negative, no conference.

Upon this passage, it was urged for a rule, · That a Question being once made, and carried in the affirmative or negative, cannot be questioned again; but must stand as a Judgment of the house.

It was thought fit that Mr. Speaker should attend the Committee for penning the Reasons in sir Francis Goodwin's Case, not by commandinent, but voluntary of himself.

Die Martis 3 die Aprilis, 1604. The Reasons of the proceeding of the house in sir Francis Goodwin's Case, penned by the Committee, were, according to former order, brought in by Mr. Francis Moore, and read by the Clerk, directed in form of a petition. "To the King's most excellent Majesty, The humble Auswer of the Commons House of Parliament to his Majesty's Objections in sir Francis Goodwin's Case.

"Most gracious, our dear and dread sovereign; Relation being made to us by our Speaker, of your majesty's royal clemency and patience in hearing us, and of your princely prudence in

discerning; shewing affectionate desire rather to receive satisfaction to clear us, than cause to pardon us: we do in all humbleness render our inost bounden thanks for the same; protesting, by the bond of our allegiance, that we never had thought to offend your majesty; at whose feet we shall ever lie prostrate, with loyal hearts, to sacrifice ourselves and all we have for your majesty's service: and in this particular, we could find no quiet in our minds, that would suffer us to entertain other thoughts, until we had addressed our answer to your most excellent majesty; for which nevertheless we have presumed of the longer time, in respect we have prepared some precedents, requiring search, to yield your majesty better satisfaction.

There were objected against us by your majesty and your reverend Judges, four things to impeach our proceedings, in receiving Francis Goodwin, knight, into our house.

Objection 1st, The first, That we assume

to ourselves power of examining of the Elections and returns of knights and bur'gesses, which belonged to your majesty's 'Chancery, and not to us: for that all Returns of Writs were examinable in the 'courts wherein they are returnable; and 'the parliament writs being returnable into the Chancery, the returns of them 'must needs be there examined, and not ' with us.'

Our humble Answer is, That until the 7th Hen. 4. all Parliament-Writs were returnable into the parliament; as appeareth by many precedents of record ready to be shewed, and consequently the returns there examinable: in which year a Statute was made, That thenceforth every Parliament-Writ, containing the day and place where the parliament shall be holden, should have this clause, viz. Et electionem tuam in pleno comitatu factam distincte et aperte sub sigillo tuo et sigillus eorum qui electioni illi interuerint nobis in Cancel'larium nostram ad diem et locum in brevi content' certifices indilate.'

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By this, although the form of the Writ be somewhat altered, yet the power of the parliament, to examine and determine of elections remaineth; for so the statute hath been always expounded ever sithence, by use to this day: and for that purpose, the Clerk of the Crown hath always used to attend all the Parliamenttime, upon the Commons House with the Writs and Returns; and also the commons, in the beginning of every parliament, have ever used to appoint special committees, all the parliament-time, for examining controversies concerning elections and returns of knights and burgesses: during which time, the writs and Indentures remain with the Clerk of the Crown, and after the Parliament ended, and not before, are delivered to the Clerk of the Petty-bag in Chancery, to be kept there; which is warranted by reason and precedents: Reason, for that it is fit that the returns should be in that place examined, where the appearance and service of the writ is appointed. The appearance and

service is in parliament, therefore the return examinable in parliament.

Precedents: One in the 29th of the late queen Eliz. where, after one Writ awarded into Norfolk for choice of knights, and elections made and returned, a second was before the Parliament-day awarded by the Lord Chancelior, and thereupon another election and return made; and the Commons being attended with both Writs and Returns by the Clerk of the Crown, examined the cause, allowed the first, and rejected the second. So anno 23 Eliz. a Burgess was returned dead, and a new chosen, and returned by a new Writ, the party returned dead appeared; the Commons, notwithstanding the Sheriff's return, admitted the first chosen, and rejected the second. Also, the said 23d year, a Burgess chosen for Hull was returned a lunatic, and a new chosen upon a second writ: the first claimed his place; the Commons examined the cause, and finding the return of Lunay to be true, they refused him; but if it had been false, they would have received him. Anno 43 Eliz. the Sheriff of Rutlandshire returned himself elected; the Commons finding that he was not eligible by law, sent a Warrant to the Chancery for a new writ to choose a new. Anno 43 Eliz. also a Burgess was chosen for two Boroughs; the Commons, after he had made election which he would serve for, sent Warrant to the Chancery for a Writ to choose a new for the other borough of which kind of precedents there are many other, wherewith we spare to trouble your majesty. All which together, viz. Use, Reason and Precedents, do concur to prove the Chancery to be a place appointed to receive the returns, as to keep them for the Parliament, but not to judge of them; and the inconvenience might be great, if the Chancery might, upon suggestions or sheriffs returns, send Writs for new elections, and those not subject to examination in parliament: for, so, when fit men were chosen by the counties and boroughs, the Lord-Chancellor, or the sheriffs, might displace them, and send out new Writs, until some were chosen to their liking; a thing dangerous in precedents for the tune to come, howsocver we rest securely from it at this present by the now Lord Chancellor's integrity.

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well finding that the latter writ was awarded and sealed before the Chancery was repossessed of the former, which the clerk of the crown, and the sheriff of the county, did both testify, and well held to be a clear fault in law, proceeded to sentence with the less respect of the latter clection. For our lack of respect to your majesty, we confess, with grief of our hearts, we are right sorry it shall be so conceived; protesting that it was no way made known unto us before that time, that your majesty had taken to yourself any special notice, or directed any course in that cause, other than the ordinary awarding writs by your highness's afficers in that behalf: but if we had known as much as some will have, by your majesty's royal mouth, we would not, without your majesty's privity, have proceeded in that manner. And further, it may please your majesty to give us leave to inform you, That in the examination of the cause of the sheriff avouched unto us, That Goodwin agreed to yield the first place of the two knights to sir John Fortescue, and in his own person, at the time of election, with extraordinary earnestness, entreated the electors it might so be, and caused the indentures to be made up to that purpose; but the electors utterly refused to seal them. Concerning our refusing conference with the lords, there was none desired until after our sentence passed; and then we thought, That in a matter private to our house, which, by rules of order, might not be by us revoked, we might, without any imputation, refuse to confer. Yet understanding by their lordships, That your majesty had been informed against us, we made haste (as in all duty we were bound) to lay open to your majesty, our good and gracious sovereign, the whole manner of our proceeding; not doubting, though we were but part of a body, as to make new laws, yet for any matter of privileges of our 'house, we are and ever have been a court of ourselves, of sufficient power to discern and determine without their lordships, as their lordships have used always to do for theirs without us.'

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Objection 3. That we have, by our sentence of receiving Goodwin, admitted, That outlaws may be makers of laws; which is contrary to all laws.'

Objection 2. That we dealt in the cause with too much precipitation, not seemly for a Our humble Answer, That notwithstanding council of gravity, and without respect the precedents which we truly delivered, of to your most excellent majesty, our sove- admitting and retaining outlaws in personal reign, who had directed the writ to be actions in the commons house, and none rcmade; and being but half a body, and mitted for that cause; yet we received so great no court of record alone, refused confe- satisfaction delivered from your royal majesty's 'rence with the lords, the other halt, not own mouth, with such excellent strength and withstanding they prayed it of us.' light of reason, more than before, in that point, Our humble answer is, to the precipitation, we heard or did conceive, as we forthwith preThat we entered into this cause, as in other pared an act to pass our house, That all outparliaments of like cases hath been accustomed, laws hence forth shall stand disabled to serve in calling to us the clerk of the crown, and view-parliament: but as concerning Goodwin's paring both the writs, and both returns; which in ticular, it could not appear unto us, having cases of *** and motions, though not of bills thoroughly examined all parts of the proceedrequiring three readings, hath been warrant by ings against him, that he stood an outlaw, by continual usage amongst us: and thereupon, the laws of England, at the time of the election

Objection 4. That we proceeded to examine the truth of the fact of Outlawry, and gave our Sentence upon that: 'whereas we ought to have been bound by the Sheriff's return of the Outlawry 'from farther examining, whether the 'party were outlawed or not.'

made of him by the county; and that for two | all which we could do no less in true discretion causes: the first is, That where the party out- than certify the election made secundum equum lawed ought to be five times proclaimed to ap- et bonum. pear in the sheriff's county court; and then not appearing, ought to be adjudged outlawed by the judgment of the coroners of the county; there appeareth no record made in the Hustings of London that Goodwin was five times proclaimed, or that the coroners gave judgment of outlawry against him: but a clerk, lately come to that office, hath now, many years after time, and since this election, made entries, interlined with a new hand, that he was outlawed: to which new entries we could give no credit, for that the parties, at whose suit Goodwin was sued, have testified in their writings of release, That they never proceeded further than to take | out the writ of Exigent for an outlawry; and being then paid their money desisted there: by which we find, That Goodwin was not five times proclaimed, nor adjudged outlawed, being a thing usual in London to spare that proclamation and judgment, if the party call not upon it; and no record being made for many years together, that either of them was done.

The second Cause was, for that the Writ of Exigent by which the sheriff was commanded to proclaim him five times, was never lawfully returned, nor certified by Certiorari; without which, we take it, That Goodwin stood not disabled as an outlaw.

over us and ours to the end of the world."

Our humble Answer is, That the Precedents cited before, in our answer to the first objection, do prove the use of the Commons House to examine veritatem facti in elections, and returns, and have not been tied peremptorily to allow the return; as if a knight or burgess be untruly returned dead or lunatic, yet when he appeared to the house to be living and sound, they have, contrary to the return, received him into the house, preferring the truth manifest before the return. By which discreet proceeding there is avoided that great inconveni ence above-mentioned of giving liberty to Skeriffs, by untrue returns, to make and remove whom they list to and from the parliament service, how meet soever the parties be in the judgment of the county or borough that elected them.—Thus, in all humility, we have presented to your most excellent majesty the grounds and reasons of our late action, led with no affections, but guided by truth, warranted in our To this, adding the two general Pardons by consciences, imitating precedents, maintaining Parliament, which had cleared the outlawry in our ancient privileges, honouring your excellent truth and substance, (if any were) and that majesty in all our services; to which in all Goodwin could not apply the pardons by Scire loyalty and devotion we bind us and ours for fa. for that no record nor return was extant of ever, praying daily on the knees of our hearts, the outlawry, whereupon he might ground a to the majesty of the Almighty, that your ma Scire fa. we were of opinion, and so your majesty and your posterity may in all felicity reign jesty's most reverend judges would have been if they had known thus much, That Goodwin These Reasons so set down and published to stood not disabled by outlawry to be elected or the House, Mr. Secretary Herbert was sent serve in parliament: but when we considered with message to the lords, That the house had further, That the course taken against Good-resolved of their Answer to his majesty, (in sir win for drawing him into this outlawry of purpose to disable him to serve in this place, whereto the county had freely elected him, was unusual; we could not, with the reputation of our places, serving as a council of gravity, in allowance or continuance of that course, censure him to be rejected as an outlaw: the particulars of which were these, viz.-Two exigents awarded, *** the other seven years past to the Hustings in London; no entry made of five proclamations; nor of any judgment of the coroners; nor any return of the exigents made or endorsed; the party plain if satisfied; the pretended outlawries being but upon a mean process; and as to your majesty's duties and contempts pardoned now since Goodwin was elected knight, the exigent now sought out since the election procured to be returned in the name of the sheriffs that then were, and are long since dead, and new entry made of the five proclamations and coroners judgment; and now a return made of that old exigent, which could be of no use, but only for a purpose to disable him for that place. Upon

Francis Goodwin's Case) and had set it down in writing, and that it should be sent to their lordships before 4 of the clock in the afternoon; who immediately returned their Lordships Answer, That they would be ready at that time in the Council-Chamber at Whitehall, with 30 of the lords, to receive what then should be delivered. Then were named threescore to attend the delivery of the said Reasons at the time and place aforesaid.

Eodem die, p. m.

The House entering seriously into consultation what course was to be held with the lords; as also falling into more length of disputation touching the Bill of Merchants, than were expected, sent some messengers to the lords, to excuse their long tarrying, viz. Sir Edward Hobby, sir Ro. Wilbraham, sir Hen, Nevil, sir Fr. Hastings, Mr. Martyn.

This afternoon about 5 o'clock the Committee appointed did attend to deliver the Reasons aforesaid at the Council-Chamber according to appointment and order of both houses; and they were delivered by sir Francis

Bacon, one of the Committee, with desire, That their lordships would be mediators in the behalf of the house, for his majesty's satisfaction.

Die Mercurii, viz. 4 die Aprilis 1604. Sir Francis Bacon having the day before delivered to the lords in the Council-Chamber of Whitehall, (according to the Direction of the house) the Reasons in writing, penned by the Committee, touching sir Francis Goodwin's Case, maketh report of what passed at the time of the said delivery. First, That though the Committees employed were a number specially deputed and selected; yet that the lords admitted all burgesses without distinction; that they offered it with testimony of their own speed and care in the business, so as they said no one thing had precedency, but only, the Bill of Recognition; that they had such respect to the weight of it, as they had not committed it to any frailty of memory, or verbal relation, but put it into writing for more permanent memory of their duty and respect to his majesty's grace and favour: that in conclusion they prayed their lordships, sithence they had nearer access, they would co-operate with them for the king's satisfaction;' and so delivered the Writing to the Lord-Chancellor, who receiving it, demanded, Whether they should send it to the king, or first peruse it? To which was answered, That since it was the king's pleasure they should concur; they desired their lordships would first peruse.

The lord Cecil demanded, Whether they had Warrant to amplify, explain, or debate any doubt or question made upon the reading? To which it was said, They had no Warrant. And so the writing was read, and no more done at that time.

Die Jovis, niz. 5 die Aprilis, 1604. Mr. Speaker by a private commandment attended the King this morning at eight o'clock, and there staid till ten.

Mr. Speaker excuseth his absence, by reason he was commanded to attend upon his majesty. And bringeth Message from his majesty to this effect: That the King had received a parchment from the house. Whether it were an absolute resolution, or reason to give him satisfaction, he knew not: He thought it was rather intended for his satisfaction. His majesty protested, by that love he bare to the house as his loving and loyal subjects, and by the faith he did ever owe to God, he had as great a desire to maintain their privileges, as ever any prince had, or as themselves. He had seen and considered of the manner and the matter; he had heard his judges and council; and that he was now distracted in judgment. Therefore, for his further satisfaction, he desired, and commanded, as an absolute king, that there might be a Conference between the House and the Judges; and that for that purpose there might

a Select Committee of grave and learned persons out of the house: that his Council might be present, not as Umpires to determine, but to report indifferently on both sides.

Upon this unexpected Message there grew some amazement and silence. But at last one stood up and said: The Prince's command is like a thunder-bolt; his command upon our Allegiance like the roaring of a lion. To his command there is no contradiction; but how, or in what manner we should now proceed to perform obedience, that will be the question.

Another answered, Let us Petition to his majesty, that he will be pleased to be present, to hear, moderate, and judge the case himself. Whereupon Mr. Speaker proceeded to this question:

Quest. Whether to confer with the Judges in the presence of the king and council? Which was resolved in the affirmative. And a select Committee presently named for the conference; viz. Lawyers; Serjeants Tanfield, Hobbard, Leigh, Shirley, Dodridge, sir Tho. Hesketh, sir Fr. Bacon, Mr. Recorder of London, Mr. Yelverton, Mr. Crewe, Mr. Lawrence Hide, Mr. Fr. Moore, Mr. Rd. Martin, Mr. Winche, Mr. Dyett, Mr. Fuller, sir Roger Wilbraham, Mr. Fr. Tate, Mr. Dr. James, sir Daniel Dunn, sir John Bennet.-Gentlemen; sir George Carew, Vice-Chamberlain to the Queen; sir Fr. Hastings, sir Edw. Hobby, sir Robert Wroth, sir Henry Nevill, sir John Savile, sir George Moore, Mr. Nath. Bacon, sir Edw. Stafford, sir Wm. Fleetwood, sir Tho. Challoner, sir Roger Aston, sir Robert Wingfield, sir Edw. Mountague, sir Edwyn Sandis, sir Robert Cotton.

These Committees were selected and appointed to confer with the Judges of the Law, touching the Reasons of proceeding in sir Francis Goodwin's Case, set down in Writing, and delivered to his majesty in the presence of the lords of his majesty's Council, according to his highness's pleasure, signified by Mr. Speaker this day to the house. It was further Resolved and Ordered by the house, (upon the motion to that end by Mr. Laurence Hide) that the aforesaid Committee should insist upon the fortification, and explaining of the Reasons and Answers delivered unto his majesty; and not proceed to any other Argument or Answer, what occasion soever moved in the time of that debate.

Die Mercurii, viz. 11 die Aprilis, 1604. Upon Adjournment.

Sir Francis Bacon was expected, and called to make a Report of the late Conference with the Judges in the presence of his majesty and the lords of the Council: but he made excuse, saying, He was not warranted to make any Report; and tantum permissum quantum commissum: nevertheless, upon a Question, he was over-ruled to make a Report; and a motion thereupon made, That the Committees might first assemble in the Court of Wards, and confer among themselves, and then the report to be made.

Sir Francis Bacon, after the meeting of the Committees in the Court of Wards, reporteth

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