held by a political right; for charters in his opinion were held not by vested but by political right-the question might as well be met now as any other time.

He was not certain that the resolution was in a proper shape. It ought, in his opinion, to be so modified as to inquire generally whether if it should be proved that the bank or any bank is an institution injurious to the public interests, its charter could be modified or repealed. That is an important question, and one which the people of Pennsylvania must consider in some shape or other. Three fourths of the people of the state, out of the pale of bank influence, are willing to give the legislature the right to revise, remodel, and abolish such chartered institutions at pleasure. He intended to offer an amendment embracing all banks and all charters. The raising of a committee to make an examination into the subject, was done more in accordance with the wishes of the convention, than of any individual. Will it be contended, by any one, that the people of Pennsylvania are not dissatisfied with the conduct of the bank of the United States; according to the shewing of the gentleman from Philadelphia, there were charges against this institution of a most gross and important character. An investigation has taken place before the legisla ture. It was true that the committee failed to ferret out all the corruptions attending the transaction, and that they failed to make the charges good. But any man must know the extreme difficulties attending such an exposure. The transactions to which fraud was imputed were necessarily secret and confidential, and it was difficult to reach them. For this very reason, the legislature ought to have the absolute power to repeal a charter or to modify, when it is found that, however obtained, it is injurious in its character to the public interest. But that is not the question before this convention. We have nothing to do with the facts of the case. Our object ought to be to inquire whether the legislature has the power to modify or repeal a charter, and, if not, whether we should not give them the power. He himself maintained that the legislature had the power already to revise, abolish, or modify any charter, on the principle that a charter is a political institution. They have the same right to repeal a charter that they have to remove a judge. The right in both cases rests on the same principle. A lawyer gives up a practice of four or five thousand dollars a year to become a judge. He takes the office at a great pecuniary sacrifice. He has as good a right to remain in office as the bank has to retain its chartered privileges. But there is no vested right in either case, but a political right.

We can return to the bank its bonus, and to the people their rights, which the legislature bartered for this mess of pottage. The rights, conferred upon the bank were taken from the people, and, as they cannot be exercised without injury to the people, the representatives of the people have the right to remove them. The legislature have the right unquestionably to abolish an institution when it is found pernicious to a whole community. How the question will terminate I cannot tell. The influence of the banks is very great. They have a powerful hold upon the people-such a one as may bias the judgment of the honest and intelligent men in the community. The idea of gain is so strong and so powerful, as to tend directly to influence the best judgment of the fairest

mind, upon this or any other similar question; I cannot, therefore anticipate a favorable vote in the convention. But if this question were, like that of life tenures, stripped of all personal considerations, I should have the strongest hopes of a result that would forever defend the country from the political influence of banks. There is a pernicious influence which operates upon the feelings and judgment of men, in the exercise of the right of voting upon questions of this kind. If he could have the members of this body, or any of the legislative bodies of Pennsly vania stripped free and clear of all influences of this kinds, and all interest in banks, when they make a decision of this kind, he should rest satis fied; because he believed that decision would be such a decision as the people of Pennsylvania would be satisfied with; but nothing short of such a decision as this will ever satisfy the people of this commonwealth.

Now, how many of the members of this body may be connected directly or indirectly with banking institutions, he knew not; nor did he know who of our number was connected with these institutions; but in order to attain an independent, impartial and fair decision on this all important question, he did say that every man holding stock in any bank, when the question of placing restrictions upon that bank came up in this body, should withdraw or decline voting upon. Where it was proposed to place restrictions upon a banking institution, most assuredly a part owner in that bank was disqualified from voting on the subject, if he looked at all to legal or parliamentary usage.

Certainly no gentleman here could agree that it would he proper for any man to vote on a question which would either be taking away or adding to his interest.

With these views he had prepared a resolution which he had intended to submit ; but, the time for submitting resolutions this morning pas sed over before he was aware of it. The resolution alluded to, was in the following words:

"Resolved, That no men ber of this convention who holds stock in any bank within this commonwealth, sha'l be deemed a competent or impartial voter on any question in which the immediate interest o! such delegate shall be involved by any constitutional pro vision, either restricting or regulating such banking institution."

This was not an idea of his own, nor was it a new idea, because it prevailed many years ago, and was to be found upon the parliamentary precedents of Great Britain as well as of this country. He found in Jefferson's Manual, page sixty-two, among the rules and regulations for the government of deliberative bodies, the following paragraph:

"Where the private interests of a member is concerned in a bill of question, he is to withdraw. And, where such an interest has appeared, his voice has been disallowed, even after a division. In a case so contrary, not only to the laws of decency, but to the fundamental principle of the social compact, which denies to any man to be a judge, in his own

cause, it is for the honour of the house, that this rule of immemorial observance, should be strictly adhered to."

This appeared to him, to be consistent with every principle of justice and propriety, and when the question of placing restrictions upon any of the banking institutions of this commonwealth does come up, he had no doubt if it should be found that any of the members of this body, had an interest therein, that they would withdraw, and decline voting thereon, He was opposed to the indefinite postponement of this resolution, and desired to have it taken up as it stands, in order that we may reach the first of it, which goes to inquire into the expediency of repealing a charter by a subsequent legislature. This appeared to him to be one of the most reasonable propostions which could come up before the conven

tion.

Why, sir, every application for a bank charter, he believed had been accompanied by some reasons for it, and those reasons he believed, had uniformly been, that it was for the public good, for the good of the community. This was the plea always set up to obtain a bank charter.

Well, then, if upon experience it has been found that an act of incorporation of this kind had not resulted for the god of the community, on which alone, the application had been made, would it not be reasonable that the legislature should have the power of restricting or abolishing it altogether?

Most clearly in his opinion, this power should be vested in the legislature. He believed they now had this power; but, if it should be found that they had not, most assuredly it ought to be conferred upon them.

Mr. M'CAHEN said, the learned gentleman from the city (Mr. Chauncey) had asked those who proposed or supported this resolution, to give the reasons why they wished to have it adopted. Why, sir, is it not sufficient to say that the matters embraced in the resolution were simply matters of inquiry in relation to a subject which was contested by the two great political parties of this commonwealth. Was it not enough to say that a doubtful point should be inquired into and cleared up. Those who supported this resolution were anxious-at least, he was anxious, that this committee should be appointed, to inquire if it be in the power of the convention so to restrict the legislature, in the passage of laws, in opposition to the interests of the whole people of the community, and whether it is not in the power of a subsequent legislature, if such laws be passed, to repeal or annul them. It was a question yet undecided in Pennsylvania, whether the legislature of this state, had a right to pass a law, which a subsequent legislature could not repeal, and as the whole subject of vested rights would necessarily be brought up, his opinion was that it would be appropriate that the subject should be sent to a committee to be examined and acted upon, and to have a report made by them on the subject.

Why, sir, if the legislature should undertake to give to a single individual of this commonwealth, the exclusive right, to the purchase and sale of all the flour made in the commonwealth, would it not be agreed by the farmers and by every one else, that this was an unjust and monstrous law, and would they not have the right to ask a repeal of it.

Now, this was a question which ought to be gravely met, and solemnly considered, as to whether the legislature had the right to give away the natural privileges of free citizens of this state. Now, this whole resolution, was a resolution of inquiry as to whether the legis lature was vested with this power, and being merely a resolution of inquiry, and the point being a mooted one, he would ask the gentleman from the city (Mr. Chauncey) to vote for it, so that it might be forever cleared up. The whole resolution from beginning to end, is founded upon inquiry, and does not embrace a single argument in relation to any matter, one way or the other, so that all those in favour of fair, free and full inquiry ought to go for it, and then, when the report of the committee comes in, if it is based upon sound principles, it can be adopted, and it not, it will be rejected. It seemed to him that the ordinary courtesy in relation to such matters, ought to induce the convention to grant this inquiry.

The gentleman from Fayette (Mr. Fuller) has referred to an article in the Manual to show that those interested in a question, ought not to vote upon it. This might be proper enough on the main question; but, he hoped that no member of this convention, would be prevented from recording his vote, in favour of this inquiry, because it was a mere mat ter of inquiry, and that inquiry too in relation to a matter which was of interest to every one in the community, as well the stockholders in these institutions, as he who was not a stockholder.

The gentleman from the city of Philadelphia, (Mr. Scott) who addres sed the convention previous to the last gentleman from the city, has spoken of the expression of the people on this subject, in a neighboring state very recently. The gentleman had said, that that opinion of the people of that state had swept across the country, like a flood, and set the seal of condemnation upon such doctrines as have been advanced here, by gentlemen on this side of the house.

Now, sir, if it be so, that the people of that state are opposed to those doctrines which we here advance, it does not follow that the people here are against it. He (Mr. M'C.) had no doubt but the banks in the state of New York, were influential in producing the result, which the gende man from the city, so much rejoices at; if they did so, he would ask the members of this convention, and he would ask the people of Penn sylvania, whether it was not an evil in the banking system, which ought to be inquired into, so that a like occurrence might not be witnessed in this commonwealth. He would ask the people of this state, whether it was not proper that banking institutions should be prevented from taking part in the political contests of the day, and whether the influences of moneyed corporations should be permitted to be thrown in the scale on one side or on the other, in all party contests?

The banks of this commonwealth were created for the public benefit, but whether they had been a great benefit to the public, he was not pre

pared to say, but the friends of certain banking institutions have told us that they have produced such great and extensive evils that it is necessary to have something to regulate the currency, some great institution to exercise an influence over all the rest. Yet when this great institution is created, we find it doing all in its power to prevent the currency from being regulated.

He had been told that the banks, in many quarters of this state, instead of contributing to the benefit of the people, and to the relief of their wants, have kept large balances of their funds in the other end of the state, for the purpose of drawing drafts upon, thereby enhancing their profits without affording that benefit to the people contemplated by their charters, while at the same time they have refused to pay their notes, at Well, in those places where these large balances were accumulated.

such cases was there to be no remedy? Must the people submit to all the evils which may be imposed upon them by banking institutions without any means of redress? If so, it was idle to call this a government of the people.

We have been told by certain gentlemen, that the country was in an unexampled state of prosperity, during the reign of a certain institution. Well, it was so yet, and has been so during the whole suspension of specie payments. It is true that the price of labour has been depressed somewhat, because of persons being thrown out of employ, by those who depended upon bank facilities, to keep them up, but what is the fact in relation to the real wealth of the country? The country has yielded an abundant harvest? The real producer of wealth has been successtul; and the only depreciation which we have is that which has been the result of wild speculation, and overtrading, specie has retained its value, and the produce of the country, yet retains its value, and it is bank notes and bank stock alone which has depreciated. This was the state of the facts in relation to the depreciation which has taken place in our country. The real capital has maintained its value, and the fictitious capital has depreciated.

Now, in relation to the power of the legislature, he held that one legis lature had not the power to pass a law which a subsequent legislature could not repeal. Other gentlemen thought otherwise, consequently there was a difference of opinion, and because of this difference of opinion he thought it was proper that an inquiry should be had on the subject, so that the matter might be finally settled to the satisfaction of all parties; and if it was so, that the legislature had this power, at present claimed for it, he thought it a legitimate matter for an amendment of the constitution, so that the rights of the people might be more fully secured. hoped, therefore, that the motion to postpone might not prevail, but that the committee might be appointed, and that a report might be made on the subject, so that the whole of the facts and arguments, on this subject might be laid before the convention, and before the people of the country.

He

Mr. CHAUNCEY said, that the gentleman from the county, who had just taken his seat, had asked him for his vote, in favour of this resolution. Now, he would tell that gentleman, that he could not have it, unless he goes farther than he has gone in convincing him that it was proper. He could not give his vote for the appointment of a committee, to make