Mr. STURDEVANT said, he would modify his amendment so as to insert after the word "legislature," in the first line, the words "as soon as conveniently may be,"-and, in the second line, after the word "such," the word "common," so that it would read as follows:

"It shall be the duty of the legislature, as soon as conveniently may be, to provide for the establishment of such common schools, throughout the commonwealth, as may be deemed necessary,-in which all persons may be taught at the public expense.'

I make this modification, said Mr. S. because I am desirous to avoid all ambiguity in this provision. In the form in which it now appears, the amendment which I proposed, gives the legislature the power to establish German schools, or such others as they may deem proper. This will do away with the necessity of adopting the amendment of the gentleman from the county of Philadelphia, and also, with the necessity of introducing the word "German"-and will enable all persons to be taught at the public expense.

I think that the words at the "public expense," should be retained; but as to this, I am not tenacious. I have introduced these modifications, at the suggestions of some of my friends. I can see no use in introducing the words "English or German." In my view, they are extremely exceptionable. It was not thought necessary to introduce them into the constitution of 1790, nor does any such necessity exist now. If adopted, as I propose, the provision will enable the legislature to establish schools. in any of the districts where the Germans may live, and where they may be taught in their own language. But it will leave the whole matter to the legislature; they will be left to judge of the expediency of the matter, and to establish such a system as they think will best answer the end desired. And until such time as they think proper to alter it, the system will remain as it is.

Mr. FULLER, of Favette, said that, as the proposition of the gentleman from Susquehanna, (Mr. Read) had been voted down, and to which he was friendly, they must now proceed to consider what they should do with the rest.

No gentleman present entertained any other opinion than that this was a highly important subject, and the only object which they all had in view, was to farther the purposes of education. It was true, as had been well observed by several delegates, that there was danger lest, in making alterations in the constitution, we should alarm the prejudices and fears of the people of the commonwealth of Pennsylvania. If the system of education chosen, was not one properly adapted to the views of the great mass of the people, it might have the effect of prostratingof putting down entirely, the whole system, and also, of defeating all the amendments to the constitution. If it should have the one tendency, it would have the other.

He, for his own part, was not inclined to put any thing in the constitution which would directly, or indirectly, have a tendency to defeat one or the other. He believed that the old constitution would be more acceptable to the people than any of the amendments which had been offered, except that of the gentleman from Susquehanna, (Mr. Read) which left the whole provision to the people of the state, who

might make such an arrangement and organization as they pleased. With regard to the amendment of the delegate from Luzerne, (Mr. Woodward) he would say, that if the words "at the public expense,' were stricken out, it would be unobjectionable.

Some of the features in the amendment of the gentleman from the county of Philadelphia, (Mr. Ingersoll) which appeared to be objectionable, had in a great measure, been explained away, though there still remained some which were objectionable. In that light he viewed the words "English and German." He thought it would be impolitic for the con vention to undertake to say any thing about foreign languages. There were but few counties, in which the majority of the population consisted of Germans; and where there was, they could instruct their representa tives in the legislature, to obtain the fulfilment of their wishes. Under all the circumstances, he conceived it would be better to leave the settlement of the matter to the legislature, than to designate the languages that should be taught. He would vote against this amendment, and the amendment to the amendment, and in favor of the old constitution.

Mr. KONIGMACHER, of Lancaster, remarked that the opinions expressed by the gentleman from Mercer, (Mr. Cunningham) and the gentleman from Bedford, (Mr. Cline) could not apply to the district which he had the honor to represent, when they stated that the German language was gradually dying away. And, consequently the convention was to be left to infer that it was not necessary to provide for the German language. Three-fourths of the population of Lancaster, was German, and they performed their religious exereises in that language. They consisted of Baptists, Menonists and United Brethren, and they were all highly respectable. Were they to be told it was useless for them to continue their intercourse with each other in the German language? One of the objections urged by the gentleman from Bedford, (Mr. Cline) why the language should not be encouraged, was, that there were no German books to be procured in this country. He (Mr. K.) must say that he was much surprised to hear that remark, especially coming from the source it did. He should be glad to know if it was not as easy to obtain books from Germany as from England. The Moravians taught in Ger man as well as in English, and they had two boarding schools, celebrated throughout the country, in which there were children from all parts of the United States. One consisting of boys, and the other of girls. These establishments were situated in the centre of a German settlement. It would be just as wrong to say that those who speak German shall not learn English, as it would be to say that those who speak English shall not learn German. The one has as good a right to learn German as the other has to learn English.

He would cheerfully vote for the amendment of the delegate from the county of Philadelphia, (Mr. Ingersoll) but he did not think its terms were obligatory and imperative, and which he did not approve. As was very justly remarked by the gentleman from Beaver, the amendment might meet the approval of the German emigrants, (as the foreigners were designated in Pennsylvania) who were not accustomed to much freedom in their own country; but our native Germans are republican, and must be placed on the same footing as the rest of their fellow citi zens. He did not like the amendment, because it was left to the discre

tion of the legislature to say what language should be cultivated. He was afraid that if the amendment should be adopted, the German population might be deprived of German schools. His opinion was, that the convention had better not meddle with the subject, and that it would be perferable to leave it to the people, or their representatives. He could not vote for the amendment in its present form; he should therefore vote in the negative until it should coine up in a shape that would meet his views. The report of the committee came nearer to them, but he could not promise to vote for it. The constitution, in its present form, he thought, provided every thing that was necessary. In his opinion, the cause of education had prospered as much in this commonwealth as any other in the United States. He did not know that it would be prudent to strike out the word "poor" from the section now under consideration; because, at the same time, the legislature, by passing an unpopular law, might abolish the privileges of the poor.

The question was taken on Mr. STURDEVANT'S amendment, and it was negatived.

Mr. CHAMBERS, of Franklin, moved to amend the amendment of the gentleman from the county of Philadelphia, (Mr. Ingersoll) by striking out all after the word "legislature," and inserting, "shall as soon as may be provide by law for the establishment of common schools throughout the state."

Mr. C. said, that in offering this amendment to the amendment, he proposed to go back, as near as might be, to the old constitution. The opinion had been expressed here repeatedly, and assented to, that the constitution was not to be changed, unless for the purpose of remedying some evil, obviating some inconvenience, or affording some advantages to the public welfare. What, then, he would ask, were the objections that were raised to the constitutional provision in relation to our schools? The prevailing one was, that it was not sufficiently imperative. And, although the provision was simple and short, and modifications without. number, had been proposed, yet none had met the approbation of the committee. What, he inquired, was the object of making the provision more imperative? For the purpose of directing the legislature. The proper director of the legislature, was public sentiment-public opinionthat was to direct them on this subject. The provision was only imperative in relation to the "poor," and left the subject of education generally the legislature; and they had introduced a system as good, as liberal and as comprehensive as was possessed by any state in the Union. None of the states had gone beyond the commonwealth of Pennsylvania. What had done this? It was public opinion reflected by the representatives of the people. Public opinion had directed the legislature-established the system, and confirmed it. He was content with the general declaration that common schools shall be established, leaving the details to be arranged by the legislature, as had been already done, and that power had been exercised. Where, he asked, was the evidence that any thing was required to direct the legislature-to compel it to act on the subject? We found that it was not necessary, at least, in this commonwealth, because we had it. What, then, was the practice in other states? Had they thought it necessary to direct their legislature, and also to get it to state the terins on which they would do it? In 1821, when the state

of New York revised her constitution, this very subject was the engross ing topic of conversation, and a deep interest was felt in it. Yet, notwithstanding all this, the convention did not deem it necessary to insert a provision in regard to it, and left it to the control and arrangement of the legislature. In reading over the constitution of the empire state, as New York was called, no constitutional provision would be found in relation to education. Let us go to Massachusetts where a system of educa tion and common schools have always received much attention. Did they deem it necessary when they revised their constitution only a few years since, to introduce an article saying how far the legislature should go, and what they should do? No; they were content to declare :

"It shall be the duty of the legislatures and magistrates, in all future periods of this commonwealth, to cherish the interests of literature and the sciences, and all seminaries of them; especially the University of Cam bridge, public schools and grammar schools in the towns; to encourage private societies and public institutions, by rewards and immunities," &c. To" cherish," was all that was enjoined. That was the sentiment of the convention of Massachusetts, in regard to their schools.

In the state of New Hampshire, where, also, this had been a favorite subject, and received the particular attention of the convention, they did no more than declare in general terms, as in Massachusetts, that:

"It shall be the duty of the legislators and magistrates in all future periods of this government to cherish the interest of literature and the sciences, and all seminaries and public schools, to encourage private and public institutions, rewards and immunities for the promotion of agricul ture, arts, sciences, commerce, trades, manufactures, and natural history of the country," &c.

He would turn next to the state of Connecticut, where this system had long been introduced. The constitution of that state was also revised a few years ago. And, did the convention, he asked, deem it necessary to impose a mandate on the legislature? No; they only declared by certain provisions, particular acts of their's inviolable.

1. "The charter of Yale College, as modified by agreement with the corporation thereof, in pursuance of an act of the general assembly, pass ed in May, 1792, is hereby confirmed.

2. "The fund, called the school fund, shall remain a perpetual fund, the interest of which shall be inviolably appropriated to the support and encouragement of the public or common schools throughout the state, and for the equal benefit of all the people thereof," &c.

All, then, that the convention of the state of Connecticut did, was to insert in their constitution, a provision declaring their school fund to be pledged for school purposes. Here we had the action of these four states, who, on amending their several constitutions, did not think it necessary to impose on the legislature any provision on the subject of education. He was not disposed to strike out all the constitution, but merely to strike out all after the word "common," and after "state." We, then, left it to the legislature to provide by law for the establishment of common schools throughout the state. 'The manner of doing it was with them and the people. He was opposed to the amendment of the delegate from the county of Philadelphia, (Mr. Ingersoll) so far as it

directs the system to be carried into effect, without consulting the convenience, or approbation of those among whom it is to be introduced. He was not inclined to force the school system on those districts that were now opposed to it. He would leave it with them to accept or reject it. Although he was himself in favor of the system, yet he would neither persuade nor force these districts to adopt it. He disapproved of the amendment so far as it provides for education in the English, German, or some other language, because it was giving directions to the legislature and the people on the subject, which he entirely objected to. We might as well go farther, and point out that system of education to be adopted, which we desired; and say that these or those books must be used. These details were not necessary. He would leave them to the legislature, where errors, if committed, might be corrected. Experience had taught us that no constitutional provision was necessary in order to establish the common school system. It had been done by the legislature when public opinion required it. This fact was fully proved in those states, where no constitutional provision existed, and where the system of education adopted by them had been successful. He was for keeping the constitution as clear, as simple, and as comprehensive as possible. In the amendment that he had offered he had endeavored to obviate the objections urged against making it imperative on the legislature to pass laws authorizing the establishment of schools, or to thrust them on the non-complying districts. He left it to the legislature to exercise their discretion.

The amendment offered by the gentleman from Susquehanna, (Mr. Read) provides for the education of all the children and youth of this commonwealth. Now, he (Mr. C.) by his amendment obviated any objection that might be urged in regard to this class of persons. He had left out that part of the report which says that "children may be taught at the public expense." These were matters which he thought had better be left to legislative discretion. In the amendment offered by him, he had obviated, what had been considered on this floor, a very great objection to the section as it now stood, and that was the incorporation in the latter part of it, of these words: "that the poor may be taught gratis." At the period when the only system of education, known in the commonwealth, was a system for the poor; when there were only what were designated "poor" schools, the term was offensive, and the constitution did require altering in that respect. The legislature had the power to do away with that odious distinction, and they exercised it. The distinction, therefore, no longer exists, and the common schools are now all on an equality. The objection no longer exists. All are taught gratis; and there is no class of schools known as "poor" schools. No inconvenience could consequently arise from letting the provision stand as it now did. Any such distinction as that of "poor" scholar was unknown. He had omitted the words "that the poor may be taught gratis," so as to obviate all objections as far as possible.

Mr. HIESTER, of Lancaster, would respectfully make a suggestion to the delegate, (Mr. Chambers) whether the legislature might not put this interpretation on it which was what he did not desire or mean, by this provision, viz: That every individual who shall send his, or her, children to school shall bear the expense. He (Mr. H.) thought that if this