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sense.

your Grants.

volunteer officer. If he served in the regular plusage. This amendment is not mine in any service, and hence I approve of the Senate Army he does not want a place as second lieu

It was a mere suggestion which would proposition rather than that of the House. tenant, because he has a place already. If he reach the object which the gentleman from Mr. SCHENCK. I will only remark upon did not serve at all he has no business in any | Pennsylvania sought to accomplish. But I this subject that, after looking over the whole Army of the United States. If any man hav am quite sure that it is not harmless surplus 1 ground, it was concluded by the Committee on ing the advantage of a military education such age. If the committee intend that graduates Military Affairs to report in favor of eight regias that given at West Point could go through from West Point shall not be eligible unless ments of colored infantry troops, without makthis war indifferent, not seeking employment | they have served as volunteers, I am not pre- ing any cavalry regiments consist of the same on the part of the country, he ought not to be pared to say that it is not right.

character of troops. We have nothing espepermitted to come into the Army after the war Mr. SCHENCK. The objection I make, on cially to say about it except to submit the ques. is over. That is my doctrine, sir, and I would reflection, is that it is all wrong to appoint a tion to the House whether they will not agree enforce it.

graduate from West Point who, during the to that suggestion of the committee. I have Mr. CHANLER. Let me saywar, has not been in service.

no feeling about it one way or the other. If Mr. SCHENCK. I do not want to be inter Mr. CONKLING. I appreciate that point. it be thonght by the Honse that two of the six rupted, and I am never able to hear what the Mr. SCHENCK. If he has served in the new regiments of cavalry should be colored gentleman says even if I were to yield to him. rebel army he ought not to be appointed. If troops, it will not in any way affect the bill in

If the section is permitted to stand with the he has served in the Union Army he is pro its other features. proposed amendment, which I assented to, but vided for. If, with his military education, he Mr. CHANLER. I think this proposition which on reflection I believe to be all wrong, has not served at all, more shame for him. coming from the gertleman from Pennsylvaif graduates come in as volunteers, it throws Mr. CONKLING. I agree that there is nia [Mr. STEVENS] is certainly consistent. I open the door for those graduates who have great force in that, and I have no opinion to || do not see why colored troops should not be been in the rebel army. No one, I presume, || express against it. I only say that if, in oppo employed in this branch of the service as well intended that, yet it has that effect. Or its sition to that view, the intention was to render as in any other. I do not doubt but that the effect will be to throw open the door to those eligible cadets without service, then the amend- | colored troops are valuable soldiers and fought who have been in no army, but resigned per ment suggested was necessary. In that view well in the late war. I am willing to go furhaps from our Army when the war broke out the amendment was not surplusage; otherwise ther and invite the gentleman from Pennsylvabecause they did not want to be in during the it amounts to nothing.

nia to take the lead and authorize this Governwar, and are willing to return in the position Mr. BLAINE. I think the gentleman from ment to enroll colored troops as officers in the of second lieutenant when all danger has gone New York misapprehends the point of the United States Army. A petition has been by: We do not want them to be admitted. amendment. The bill confined the appoint presented to the House on this very subject,

I ask, therefore, that the amendment by ments to the subaltern grades, first and second and the Committee on Military Affairs refused which these words were introduced shall be | lieutenancies, to volunteers, and without a pro to grant its prayer. You have soldiers enough reconsidered. If anything be done with that viso letting in West Point graduates they could here to witness it, and the whole country has class I prefer to fall back upon what was agreed not get in. Being confined by the letter of the witnessed the sincerity of your arguments in between my colleague and myself, that here bill to volunteers, a proviso was put in saving behalf of the colored troops. If Hannibal after a graduate of West Point shall be eligible the chances of the West Point graduates. The crossed the Alps and is worthy of being quoted to a second lieutenancy, the object of the com- | proviso now pending is:

here for introducing colored troops into his mittee being to save these educated young gen Provided, That cadets hereafter graduating shall army, go on and let your Hannibals supplant tlemen and not exclude them from appointments be eligible, &c. by giving all these subaltern positions to volun That makes it as clear as anything can be. There is a list published in the morning teers. It will carry out, too, the intention of Mr. BOYER. Would it not obviate all diffi papers of to-day of military members of this the comniittee to provide two thirds above first culty to insert after the word “eligible” the House who propose holding a public meeting lieutenants shall be volunteers, and that all the words “immediately upon graduation ?', in this city. Their names are headed by the first and second lieutenants shall be volunteers Mr. BLAINE. Well, put those words in. distinguished chairman of the Military Comexcept these graduates from West Point who Mr. BOYER. Let the amendment read: mittee, and it contains with one or two excepshall be eligible to come in as second lieuten

Provided, hmoever, That graduates of the United tions the names of all the officers who are memants.

States Military Academy shall be eligible, immedi bers of this House upon the other side, who I ask the House, therefore, to reconsider ately upon graduation, to appointments, &c.

served as volunteers in the Army of the Unithe vote by which the first amendment was The SPEAKER. The question had better ted States. I do not see the name of any adopted; and I give notice that if that motion first be taken on the motion to reconsider. man who served from this side of the House, shall prevail then I shall propose, or my col The question was taken; and the motion to

although there are those who so served. leagne on the committee (Mr. BLAINE) will reconsider was agreed to.

I wish to know from the chairman of the propose, to amend the provision.

The question rccurred on Mr. Boyer's amend

Military Committee if he shrinks from placing Mr. BLAINE. I will send to the Clerk's ment.

the officers of the Army of the United States desk the amendment I propose. I understood Mr. BOYER. I will modify my amendment in competition with negroes. Is he afraid to on Friday last, when I yielded to the amend so as to read:

enter into that fair and open field of competiment of the gentleman from New York, [Mr. Provided, however, That graduates of the United tion to which he has invited the common solo HALE,] that that amendment of the gentleman

States Military Academy shall be eligible, immedi-
ately upon graduation, to appointments as second

dier to enter in this proposed reorganization from New York was to constitute a part, and lieutenants without such service.

of the Army? Is it fear or is it prejudice that not to take the place of my amendment. Un

The amendment, as modified, was agreed to.

leads him to refuse to do that? Is he ignorant der that misapprehension I'yielded, which I

Mr. STEVENS. We all have some knowl

of the capacity of the negro, or is he influshould not otherwise have done. edge about these military matters, of course.

enced to such an extent by the narrow-minded Mr. Blaine's amendment was read, as folI must show mine by moving an amendment.

habits of life in which the honorable gentle

man has been educated that he cannot see the I like portions each of the Senate bill and of Provided, hoidever, That cadets hereafter graduat: the House bill better than some portions of the

injustice of his own bill? ing from he United States Military Academy shall

other. be eligible to appointments as second lieutenants.

Now, if his system of organizing the AmerMr. CONKLING. I came into the Hall in

Now, I see that by the Senate bill two regi

ican Army is worth anything, it should be con

sistent; it should be a unit with itself. There time to hear the amendment read, and I take ments of colored troops, out of the six regiments

should be no difference or distinction on ac. the liberty at this mon

that are to be added, are provided for. I think oment, to suggest to the

count of race or color either in the ranks or Committee on Military Affairs that the amend

that that ought to be so in the House bill. That
has been omitted unless it has been inserted in

among the officers. The gentleman seems to ment which has been adopted will be as necessome other section. I suppose it has not been,

shirk the responsibility of elevating the negro sary and applicable in case the motion to reand I move, therefore, to amend this third sec

The gentlemen of the Military Commitconsider should prevail as otherwise, because tion by inserting, after the word "regiments,'

tee seem to tremble for their own personal diswhen you say those who graduate hereafter in the ninth line, the words “two of which shall

tinction in that respect. shall be eligible, you do not provide, unless be composed of colored men ;'' so that it shall

I look with eagerness and interest to the you express it in terms, that they shall be eliread:

course pursued by the honorable gentleman gible without previous service.

That to the six regiments of cavalry now in the

from Pennsylvania, [Mr. STEVENS.] His intiMr. BLAINE. The gentleman from New service there shall be added six regiments, two of mate relations with the colored race, his knowl. York being absent, he failed to hear the sug which shall be composed of colored men, &c.

edge of their virtues and their fascinations enagestion of the chairman of the Committee on I offer this amendment because I believe ble him to advocate the necessity of giving the Military Affairs. I wish to say further, that that colored troops do better as cavalry than colored race an opportunity of entering the when 1 yielded on Friday to the gentleman || perhaps in any other branch of the service. military service of this country. He underfrom New York, it was on the understanding They have been skillful horsemen all their lives. stands fully the reasons why the doors should that his amendment should be incorporated || If there was anything they were taught by their be thrown open to the descendants of the black with mine, not thinking that it would be put | southern masters it was how to ride on horse race, who bear the proud stains of the highest simply in place of mine. That gave rise to an back. I understand from oflicers who have men in the Government of this country to-day evil which the chairman of the committee has served with them that they make excellent or in the past, whose mothers were the victims just explained.

cavalry, so far as they have had any expe of the seductive charms of the witty white man. Mr. CONKLING. I hope the House will rience. I think, therefore, they should have an I congratulate the venerable gentleman from not vote in here anything as harmless sur. opportunity of serving in that branch of the Il Pennsylvania, that he is not ignorant of their

lows:

race.

and nays.

virtues, their courage, or their merits, and I The House again divided; and the tellers matter, shall, so far as the interest of the serrespect him when he comes forward as the reported-ayes 56, noes 12; no quorum voting: vice will allow, be impartially shared between champion of the black race, and insists that Mr. SPALDING moved that there be a call || all the regiments of the cavalry service, which the President of the United States, under his of the House,

will remove jealousy and create fair play all general power as the Commander-in-Chief of The motion was disagreed to.

around. the armies of the United States, shall invite Mr. CHANLER: I insist there shall be a I need not say, perhaps, that I move this with the worthy of the black race to positions in it; division in reference to the demand for the yeas

the assent of the members of the committee. and do it, too, under the provisions of the civil

The amendment was agreed to. rights bill, which, having made them citizens of The SPEAKER pro tempore. It is not in Mr. SCHENCK. I move to amend section the United States, should also admit them as order, as the House refused to order the yeas three by adding this at the end: members of the Army by this bill to reorganize || and nays.

And such regiment shall have one veterinary suryour Army.

Mr. STEVENS. I think there is a quorum

geon, whose compensation shall be $125 per month. The civil rights bill having been passed, the

present now, and I hope by unanimous consent It applies only to the cavalry. These perlaws under which your Army is now organized the tellers will again take their places.

sons employed now are receiving about seventygives the power to the Commander-in-Chief Mr. ROSS. I object.

five dollars, and rank as sergeants. They get of the Army. And I wish to see no laggard Mr. FINCK. We want the yeas and nays. certain allowances, but they are paid an amount philanthropy huddling about the poor privates Is it in order to move to reconsider the vote by about sufficient to secure the service of com. of the Army, but they should be allowed the which the yeas and nays were refused ?

petent, scientific horse doctors. highest grades that white men have been allowed

The SPEAKER pro tempore. It is in order.

It has been suggested to me in a communito reach. Now, the gentlemen of the Military Mr. FINCK. Then I make that motion. cation on the subject by the chief of the Cav. Committee know very well the ability and The motion was agreed to.

alry Bureau that it is absolutely necessary, capacity which the corporals and sergeants of

The yeas and nays were then ordered. in order that proper persons may be secured, the colored troops have acquired by their ser The question was taken; and it was decided that the pay should be somewhat increased. vice in the Army to this time. And I want to in the affirmative--yeas 70, nays 28, not voting And every one acquainted with the cavalry know why, in the present state of public opin. 76; as follows:

service will understand how essential this ion, those gentlemen have not brought forward

YEA8-Messrs. Allison, Ames, Baker, Baldwin,

officer is. in their bill a proposition so laudable, so con Barker, Baxter, Benjamin, Bidwell, Bingham, Bout It is also proposed to give jhem the rank, sistent, so patriotic, so just, and so absolutely

well, Brandegee, Bromwell, Bundy, Reader W.
Clarke, Sidney Clarke, Cobb, Conkling. Cook, Davis,

without command, of captain. I cannot bring necessary to meet the exigencies of the civil

Defrees, Deming, Donnelly, Eckley, Eliot, Garfield, my mind to assent to that proposition. I see rights bill which they have forced upon us. Grinneli, Hale, Abner C. Harding, Hayes. Henderson, no reason why, without command, we should I do not want to see the gentleman, the

Llooper, Hulburd, Ingersoll, Jenckes. KelleyKelso, ll give them that rank. But I think the pay

Laflin, Loan, Longyear, Marston, Marvin, McClurg, chairman of the Military Committee, confine Mckee, Mercur, Moorhead, Morris, Moulton, Myers,

should be increased so as to afford additional his liberality to the private soldiers of the reg. O'Neill, Orth, Paine, Patterson, Price, William H. inducement for securing good officers. This ular Army, I want to see him, with that manly

Randall, Raymond,
Alexander II. Rice,John H. Rice,

$125 per month will be the entire compensaRollins, Schenck. Scofield, Shellabarger, Spalding, courage which has always characterized him, Stevens, Thayer, Francis Thomas, John L. Thomas,

tion. They will be without any allowances take the part of the humble officers of the col. Trowbridge, Upson, Van Aernam, Ward, Warner, or emoluments if this amendment shall pass. ored troops, the sergeants and corporals; take

Elihu B. Washburne, William B. Washburn, Wel-
ker, Wentworth, Williams, Stephen F. Wilson Win-

It amounts to $1,500 a year, which I think is them by the hand and lead them up to the Pres. dom, and Woodbridge-79.

necessary. ident of the United States, the Commander-in NAYS-Messrs. Boyer, Chanler, Coffroth, Farns The gentleman from Illinois [Mr. FARNSChief of all our armies, and claim for them

worth, Finck. Glossbrenner, Goodyear, Grider, Aaron
Harding, Hill, Hogan, Chester D. Hubbard, Edwin

WORTH] suggests $100 a month. I think it is -positions as ollicers in the Army. He knows

N. Hubbell, Kuykendall. Marshall. McCullough, not, and in the opinion of the chief of the the arguments which have been used here so Morrill, Nicholson, Phelps, Ritter, Ross, Rousseau, Cavalry Bureau, inen cannot be engaged for often on every occasion. The blood of our

Shanklin, Taber, Taylor, Thornton, Robert T. Van
Horn, and Henry D. Washburn-28.

that sum who are of the right character. brave colored troops has flowed in rivulets NOT VOTING-Messrs. Alley, Ancona, Anderson,

Mr. FARNSWORTH. I suggest $100 a upon every battle-field of this great war, while Delos R. Ashley, James

M. Ashley, Banks, Beaman, || month, assimilating it to the amount paid by those who urged by persistent arguments the

Bergen, Blaine, Blow, Broomall, Buckland, Cullom,
Culver, Darling, Dawes, Dawson, Delano, Denison,

the Government to contract surgeons in the necessity for the use of the black man as a sol Dixon, Dodgo, Driggs, Dumont, Eggleston, Eldridge, Army. A large portion of the surgeons that dier remained here in this House, or but sel Farquhar, Ferry, Griswold, Harris, Ilart, Higby, were employed during the war received but dom exercised their prowess on the field.

Holmes, Hotchkiss, Asahel W. Hubbard, Demas
Hubbard, John H. Hubbard, James R. Hubbell,

$100 per month. I hope an amendment will be made in this James Humphrey, James M. Humphrey, Johnson, I agree with the chairman of the Committee spirit. I hope the gentleman from Pennsyl Jones, Julian, Kasson, Kerr, Ketcham, Latham, on Military Affairs that veterinary surgeons are vania [Mr. STEVENS) will lead us on. He is George V. Lawrence, William Lawrence, Le Blond, Lynch, McIndoe, MeRuer, Miller, Newell, Niblack,

necessary in the cavalry service. Such regithe Moses of the day. Let him lead on in this

Noell, Perhom, Pike, Plants, Pomeroy, Radford, ments when mounted cannot well do without great work; and let the gentlemen of the Mil Samuel J. Randall, Rogers, Sawyer, Sitgreaves, them. And I agree that the Government has itary Committee hold up the hands of the mod

Sloan, Smith, Starr, Stilwell, Strouse, Trimble, Burt
Van Horn, Whaley, James F. Wilson, Winfield, and

not paid enough for such oflicers. During the ern Moses, so that these people may pass over Wright-76.

fore part of the war they only received, I bein safety. And the time will not be far distant So the amendment was agreed to.

lieve, the pay of sergeant major. Latterly they when the military organization of this country

During the vote,

were paid seventy-five dollars per month. I will be filled by the patriotic members of the Mr. TROWBRİDGE stated that his col think $ 100, which is half way between seventycolored race. league, Mr. BEAMAN, was compelled to leave

five dollars and $125, will command the serThe question recurred on Mr. STEVENS'S the House by indisposition.

vice of veterinary surgeons certainly as well as amendment. The House divided; and there were-ayes

The vote was then announced as above re

$100 will command the services of surgeons corded.

qualified to take charge of hospitals. I there46, noes 12; no quorum voting. Mr. CHANLER demanded the yeas and

Mr. BLAINE. I move, after the words "any

fore move that amendment.

Mr. HALE. I wish to submit to the chairportion of the cavalry force herein authorized nays. The yeas and nays were not ordered. may be dismounted and armed and drilled as

inan of the committee whether a horse doctor The SPEAKER pro tempore, (Mr. Washinfantry at the discretion of the President,'' to

ought to have better pay than a doctor of men. BURNE, of Illinois, in the chair,) no quorum insert the following:

The assistant surgeon of the Army is the medi

cal officer of the regiment, and he gets a less having appeared on the last vote, ordered tell

But the number so dismounted shall be taken, so far as the interests of the service will permit, pro

sum than this bill proposes for a horse doctor. ers, and appointed Messrs. BLAINE and CHAN

portionately and impartially from the several cavalry According to the present bill his pay and allowregiments.

ances amount to less than $125 a month, and The House again divided; and the tellers I will explain the object and the necessity || he ranks as lieutenant. It seems to me that a reported-ayes fifty-six, noes not counted. for this amendment. The cavalry service con man who doctors horses onght not to be paid

Mr. GRIDER. It was my understanding sists at present of six regiments. It is pro more than one who attends to the cure of the that the House was dividing on ordering the || posed to add six. There is a great deal of ills of the human race. yeas and nays. It was certainly my intention jealousy among the cavalry when they are dis Mr, SCHENCK. The assistant surgeon that the tellers should be, not on the amend mounted, and the natural operation would be ranks as lieutenant of cavalry. He gets less ment, but on ordering the yeas and nays. I that those who are last enlisted would be, in a pay, but a great deal more compensation, bedemanded tellers on the yeas and nays at the body, or as whole regiments, kept dismounted, cause he gets certain rations and allowances time.

and the old regiments would be kept mounted, for servants' rations and clothing, and various The SPEAKER pro tempore. ' The Chair and a great deal of discontent and unfairness little things which go to make up the compendid not hear the gentleman from Kentucky would be the result.

sation, which are not taken into the account demand tellers on the yeas and nays, The The Senate bill undertakes to remove that when you talk about his pay proper. By the yeas and nays were refused, and the Chair trouble by proposing that not exceeding four bill before the House the first lieutenant gets ordered tellers on the amendment, as there companies of each regiment shall be dis $1,800 and the second lieutenant $1,600. was no quorum on the previous vote.

mounted. The effect of that will be to make Mr. HALE. By the Army Register an Mr. CHANLER. I insist that the division twelve cavalry regiments of eight companies assistant surgeon of less than five years' service shall go on.

each. My amendment simply means this: that ranks as first lieutenant, and his total pay The SPEAKER pro tempore. The tellers the portion dismounted, whatever it may be and allowances amount to $112 83 per month. will resume their places.

in the judgment of those having charge of the Mr. SCHENCK. That may be so published.

LER.

As I said before, this is one of the difficulties Mr. ROSS. I move that this bill be recom able to put down the most gigantic rebellion we have to encounter to know what they do | mitted to the Committee on Military Affairs, that ever raised its hydra head upon any conget. Where the officer gets pay, commutation, with instructions to remodel and reform the bill tinent, and to subdue any army ever marshaled and allowances, the first lieutenant of cavalry, so as to reduce the Army to a number not ex

on earth. for instance, in this city, gets $2,088 41 a year. ceeding forty thousand men.

Sir, when this war began, a proclamation The allowance for fuel is $198, and for quar Mr. Speaker, I do not profess to be well was issued by President Lincoln, calling for ters $132, and if that be taken off, it still leaves versed in military affairs. But I have been seventy-five thousand men, for the purpose of the amount more than $1,200.

unable to see the necessity of so large a stand putting down the rebellion, thus illustrating Mr. FARNSWORTH. In Washington city | ing army as that provided by the bill reported the esteem and consideration with which the the allowance for these items is about double || by the committee. It is very expensive to main. || people of this country have regarded small what it is elsewhere.

tain so large an army in the field. And I do standing armies. It had long been settled in Mr. SCHENCK. If the gentleman from not regard such an army as being in conso the minds of the people that a large standing Illinois [Mr. FARNSWORTH] thinks $1,200 is nance with the theory of our institutions. Our army was not necessary; and although when enough, I am not desirous of disputing the mat dependence for defense is not upon a standing that call was made the regular Army of our ter with him, but will leave it to the House. army. In case of an invasion of our country, nation numbered only fifteen or twenty thousOnly I say that the present compensation is or any infraction of our rights, our reliance has and men, the hills and the valleys poured out insufficient, and that if we appoint men fit for || always been upon the volunteers who respond || like water men who were ready at a moment's the places we must give them more than they promptly to the call of the Government for the call to march forth in defense of their country's are now receiving.

purpose of repelling invasion and maintaining | cause, and assist in putting down the fearful Mr. COBB. I desire to ask the chairman our rights.

rebellion which has so recently closed. of the committee a question, and it is a ques

I have not heard from any gentleman the Sir, I am satisfied from the experience of tion which I wish at this time to submit to that necessity for fastening upon a people already the country during the last seventy-five years committee, who are presenting to us an entirely || burdened and borne down by the weight of tax that there never was a time in our history when new bill for the organization of the Army. ation the enormous expense of a large standing the situation of this country required a smaller I would inquire whether it is not desirable, army. I would be glad if some member of the army than is necessary at the present time. in framing such a bill as this, to change the Military Committee, or some other member of There is no danger of any more civil comwhole system of compensation, doing away with the House who may be conversant with the motions; there is no danger of any further the complicated machinery of allowances and subject, would inform us as to the expense of rebellion. The power of the Government has rations. I would like to know of the chairman keeping a regiment in the field. I know that been maintained. Our Government has shown of the committee, or of some one competent last year there was testimony taken before the itself to be formidable and omnipotent. It to answer it, whether it is not possible to frame || Committee on Territories in relation to the has demonstrated that it is abundantly able a bill which shall dispense entirely with this expense of keeping a regiment of cavalry in the to put down any rebellion. It has shown itself complicated system of compensation.

Indian country. And military men testified strong enough to cope successfully with any Mr. SCHENCK. In reply to the gentleman | before that committee that the entire expense

army which

may be raised against it, whether from Wisconsin, (Mr. COBB,] I will say that of keeping a regiment of cavalry in service in marshaled in this country or any other. in my view just such legislation is needed. And that country was $2,000,000 per annum. Of Sir, an army of such numbers as we had it is in consequence of that conviction that I course it would not be so expensive to maintain before the rebellion will be sufficient hereafter have reported, with the authority of the Military a regiment in other parts of the country. for all practical purposes. There is no necesCommittee to back me, a bill to fix the com Sir, I cannot give my consent to burden the sity that, at a time when the people are already pensation of the officers of the Army in an people of this country with further taxation for groaning under the onerous burden of taxaintelligible shape, and that bill he will find on this purpose, unless there is more apparent tion, they should be subjected to still leavier his file.

necessity for it than any which I have been able | burdens to support in time of peace an army After we get through this bill it may perhaps to discover, and therefore I have moved, and I of seventy-five or eighty thousand men. Sir, not be impolitic to move that bill as an adden trust such may be the opinion of this House, as soon as you adopt the doctrines of the mondum, so as to include all in one bill. This bill that this bill be recommitted with instructions archists of the Old World and establish in this might be modified by striking out the words to remodel and refashion its provisions in country the system of maintaining a large "emoluments and allowances wherever they | accordance with what I have suggested. standing army in time of peace, that very occur. I have not thought it advisable, how I have no disposition to protract debate upon moment you menace liberty and destroy one ever, to bring it before the House for it will be this question. I desired merely to express my of the foundation principles of our republican hard enough against the influences surrounding opinion upon the subject. And I shall be glad, institutions. us to fight through either one of these bills, i | if a sufficient number shall coincide with me, In reference to this question of a standing think. And I know that we shall have to rally | to be permitted to record our votes in favor of army, I am willing to stand by the doctrines with all the strength we can those of us who an Army of not exceeding forty thousand men of Washington and Jefferson and Madison, think as I do, and as I am glad to see the in time of peace.

and the other founders of our Government, tleman does, on the subject of compensation, Mr. ROGERS. I have not hitherto partici- || who have bequeathed to us the principle that before we can get any bill of this kind through || pated in any manner in the debate on this bill. || standing armies in times of peace are dangerthe House against outside influence and Army | But I have been unable, by any examination I ous to republican institutions. A republican influence.

can give it, to see what necessity there is at this Government must rest for its foundation upon I make this reply merely to satisfy the gen time for any such law at all as this. I have the consent and affection of the people. Their tleman that that subject has not passed un had no satisfactory reason shown to me that || patriotism must be relied upon as its sure denoticed, and that there is a bill to accomplish the there is any insufficiency in the Army as now fense in the hour of peril. Large standing very object the gentleman desires now on file. Il organized, and as it has been organized since 1 armies are simply a menace to popular liberty. The amendment of Mr. FARNSWORTH, to

the strike out $125 and insert $ 100, was agreed to. old system and by virtue of the principles upon to me one moment for a question ? The amendment, as amended, was agreed to. which it has been organized.

Mr. ROGERS, Yes, sir. Mr. TAYLOR. I would inquire if it be in

I entirely agree with the honorable gentle Mr. GRINNELL. How large does the genorder to move to go back to section two for

man from Illinois (Mr. Ross) as to the impro- | tleman understand the Army to be now, and to the purpose of amending it.

priety at this time of keeping a large standing I what number would he have it reduced ? The SPEAKER pro tempore. It can be

army. It was the wisdom of our fathers, and Mr. ROGERS. I do not know how large done by unanimous consent.

they gave it out to their children as a settled the Army is now. I am not prepared to say. Mr. SCHENCK. I will hear what the gen

axiom in American history, that large standing || I am not very well versed in military affairs. tleman proposes.

armies in time of peace were not only danger- But I am prepared to say that I am for reduMr. TAYLOR. I propose to amend by

ous to liberty, but they involved the country in cing the Army to as low a standard as is coninserting in section two, after the word " artis- || heavy, and enormous expenses. And during sistent with the preservation of the peace of lery," the following:

the whole period of our political and national the country—as low a standard as has been

history, from the first formation of the Army necessary at any time within the last twentyThat there shall be appointed a chief of artillery with the rank, pay, and emoluments of a brigadier

of this country down to this time, I believe at general, who shall have charge, under the direction no time, when the country was not involved in Mr. GRINNELL. How low? of the War Department, of all matters pertaining war, have we had an Army to exceed the max Mr. ROGERS. Fifteen or twenty thousand. to the artillery arm of the service.

imum of twenty-five or thirty thousand men. Forty thousand as proposed by the gentleman Mr. SCHENCK. I object to going back for Now, after we have gone through this rebel from Illinois [Mr. Ross) would be a very libthe purpose of allowing that amendment. lion, and marshaled armies more gigantic and eral allowance indeed, and would certainly be

Mr. TAYLOR. I would inquire if it will enormous, perhaps, than any that ever were as large an army as the tax-burdened people be in order at any stage of the bill to intro marshaled upon the fields of this country, and of this country should be called on to maintain duce this amendment.

I might say upon any other since civilization in time of peace. Such is the patriotism and The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair is began, what necessity is there to change the courage of our people that they can always be not at the present moment prepared to answer organization of the Army which existed during relied on to come forward as volunteers in that question.

all that period. When the first tocsin of war overwhelming numbers to vanquish ang foe, Mr. TAYLOR. I will withdraw it, and was sounded, we found men so ready through whether from without or within, and to mainmove hereafter to add it as a new section. our volunteer system that it was but a short tain the honor and integrity of the country: That I am told I can do.

time before we had a million men in the field, Mr. GRINNELL. I desire to inquire of the

gen

five years.

gentleman whether he would, in this or any The SPEAKER pro tempore.

Debate is same rights that I am. When he speaks on future emergency, enlist the Fenians. exhausted.

any question he never finds me slurring him Mr. ROGERS. I do not know whether we Mr. SCHENCK. I demand the previous || for what he says. Although I may not say can enlist the Fenians. I think that the Fenians question on the motion to recommit.

what will suit the other side of the House, I are able to take care of themselves. I

suppose The previous question was seconded and the speak the honest dictates of an honest heart that the gentleman, if he has any love of lib main question ordered.

and the views I entertain, and I do not like to erty, will, in common with all other men who Mr. ROSS demanded the yeas and nays. be abused for my honest convictions by any rejoice to see republics established everywhere, The House divided; and there were-ayes gentleman upon the other side of the House. give his sympathy and aid to the Fenians in sixteen, noes not counted.

Mr. BLAINE. The gentleman from New their effort to throw off the yoke of tyranny Mr. ROSS demanded tellers on the yeas and Jersey says that I have taken occasion whenwith which England has oppressed the Irish nays.

ever he has spoken to say something indecopeople for the last seven hundred years.

The House divided; and there were--ayes rous or unbecoming. Yet he cites only two I suppose the gentleman has not yet forgot seventeen, noes not counted.

occasions in which I have offered any remarks ten we were once under the tyranny and bond The SPEAKER pro tempore. Tellers are about him. If he will remember how frequently age of England. I hope he has not forgotten not ordered, and the yeas and nays are not he has addressed this House, and can only rewe spurned the right of taxation assumed by ordered.

member those two occasions, he must see that Great Britain, that we proclaimed our inde Mr. ROSS. I rise to a question of order. there must have been a good many times when pendence, thatour forefathers spilled their blood | I understand when one side of the House is I have not referred to him at all. Now, I never in defense of their freedom; and I trust that counted we have a right to have the other side have had the slightest unkind feeling toward gentlemen will now sympathize with the down corinted.

the gentleman from New Jersey in my life. trodden people of Ireland who are making the The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentle- || Two or three weeks ago, on a Monday mornsame effort to relieve themselves from the same man from Illinois demanded the yeas and nays | ing, by means of a mere accident in parliadespotism of England.

and tellers on the yeas and nays, but on a mentary rule, which happens perhaps once in But, sir, this country is not England. It is division there were not enough to order either twenty-five years, the gentleman had an oppora republic. It is one which exists in the sym. the tellers or the

yeas and
nays.

tunity to exhaust the whole morning hour in a pathy and love of the people. It is bound The motion to recommit was disagreed to. debate in which neither himself nor any other together by the iron bands of affection, which Mr. ROGERS. I move to amend by adding member of the House was interested, and I apcan never be broken or rent asunder. There a provision that the Army at no time sball ex pealed to the gentleman personally to yield the is no necessity, therefore, existing in this free ceed thirty thousand men; and I move that floor, inasmuch as there were many gentlemen country to keep officers in pay at thousands of amnendment for the purpose of occupying the on this side of the House who had resolutions to dollars a year, who have nothing to do in a attention of the House forabout three minutes. offer-not resolutions of a political character, time of peace except to lounge about the Mr. SCHENCK. I rise to a point of order, but of a business nature, which could only be country.

that the provision that the Army at no time introduced under the call of States on alternate Why, Mr. Speaker, our taxes are now bur shall exceed thirty thousand men has nothing | Mondays. The gentleman agreed that he would dening us down. We have a national debt of to do with this section. I not only make the not take more than twenty minutes, but then $3,000,000,000. That is exclusive of the debts | point of order, but I appeal

he continued for the entire hour; and in the of the States, of perhaps $1,000,000,000 more. Mr. ROGERS. The gentleman will not find heat of the moment I made some remarks that It is the bounden duty of the people to pay fault with me if he will permit me to go on. were hasty and unbecoming, as I have siuce every dollar of that debt. Let us keep our Mr. SCHENCK. Yes, we will have the thought. If I thereby wounded the gentleman faith and obligation with the people with whom same old speech over again. [Great laughter.] in any way I am very sorry for it; and I will we contracted this debt. Let us bend our en The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair | say in addition, that I have none but the kindergies in such way that the resources of the overrules the point of order.

liest feeling for him personally. He has always country will come under our command freely, Mr. ROGERS. I offer this amendment more treated me with respect, and I desire to treat from the hearts of the people, without resist for the purpose of vindicating myself, than any.

him in the same way. ance on their part or oppression on ours. And thing else, from the malicious assaults which Mr. ROGERS. That is sufficient. it is mainly on the ground that this adds enor the honorable gentleman from the State of Mr. STEVENS. I rise to a question of mously to our expenses that I am opposed to it. Maine [Mr. BLAINE) has made it his business | order. I desire to know to what part of this

The idea of allowing it to be in the power to make upon me every time I have got up to section this debate applies. (Laughter.] of any person who may be at the head of our say anything in this House. I suppose that he The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair is military establishment, or of the President of knows very well that during the remarks which not yet advised. the United States, a corrupt or ambitious man I made on the amendment offered by the gen

Mr. ROGERS. I want but a moment more. if you please, to control so vast a standing army, tleman from Illinois I confined myself strictly Mr. SCHENCK. If the gentlemen have is radically wrong. He may use it to control to the question before the House. This House | exhausted theirteasons for reducing the Army, the affairs of the Government and to accom will bear me witness in saying that in no argu I will move the previous question. plish the objects of his personal ambition like ments which I make before this House do I Mr. ROGERS. Wait until my fifteen ninsome of the leaders in ancient Rome and else digress from the subject under debate, and that utes are through, if you please. where. It is dangerous to the liberties of the I always confine myself strictly to the subject Mr. SCHENCK. Very well. people. It is introducing an element into the before the House. I make no general speeches;

Mr. ROGERS. I ask but a moment more. Government which in the end will prostrate the no Saturday speeches. - I mean no disrespect | The gentleman from Maine says that my argubest interests of the whole country.

to anybody else, but I think I ought to be ments upon the resolutions which I offered had There is no necessity for it. No gentleman, treated with common respect, at least, by the interest neither for the House nor for myself so far as I have heard, has been able to show gentleman from Maine when I get up to address nor anybody else. [Laughter.] any necessity for an increase of our standing the House.

The gentleman is mistaken about that; it Army.

When my resolutions, over which I had no was a very important question, and I presume Let me say there never were better rules control, came up a week or two since, I had the House will remember that when first I came and regulations established for the army of any the floor, and the Speaker of the House told here, I think in the first week or in the second, country than those established by our fathers the House the reasons why I was entitled to I offered a joint resolution which was referred for the Army of this country. That Army the floor, and because I would not yield the to the Judiciary Committee, to authorize the has been marshaled and successfully sustained right which I then had the gentleman from States to tax United States securities, and the and upheld under those rules and regulations. Maine got up and abused me and treated me remarks which I made were therefore entirely Those regulations have been accorded by the in a most shameful and indecorous manner; pertinent to the question before the House. people of the old continent in reference to mili in such a manner as I would treat no member Mr. SCHENCK. I must really rise to a tary government to be as perfect in theory either on this side of the House or on the other. question of order. and application as those of any country in the | The House will bear me witness of the truth Mr. ROGERS. It is not necessary. I withworld.

that I always treated gentlemen upon all sides draw my amendment. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentle of this House with the utmost courtesy. No

Mr. VAN AERNAM. I move to amend the man's time has expired.

body has known me to get up and browbeat section by inserting at the end of it the followMr. BLAINE. I beg the gentleman from and abuse any member because he did not || ing proviso: Illinois to withdraw his proposition.

When

agree with me. God made us so that our Provided further, That officers of the same grade this bill was reported from the Committee on natures are different, and we arrive at different

above the rank of first lieutenant, who shall be

appointed under the provisions of this section, sball Military Affairs and taken up for consideration conclusions, and I think it is most contempti bave their rank determined by their last previous it was agreed that we should go through it sec ble and indiscreet work on the part of the gen rank, whether in the volunteer service or not. tion by section, giving a liberal allowance of tleman, when I undertake to discuss any sub Mr. SCHENCK. I hope the gentleman from fifteen minutes to each member for debate, so ject, to attempt to browbeat me and insult me. New York will not put that on a section with that the measure could be perfected. Propo In what I have said I have no ill-feeling toward | which it has nothing to do whatever. This sitions like the one now pending interjected in the gentleman at all. I hold him in high section relates to a cavalry force. His amendthis way will, of course, only give rise to this respect. I believe him to be a gentleman, and ment refers to an entirely different and sepsloshy-washy debate. I appeal to the gentle shall always treat him with courtesy. All that arate question. I suggest that he add it to the man to withdraw his proposition.

I ask of him is that he shall treat me in the bill as a separate section, otherwise we shall Mr. ROSS. I regret I cannot comply with same way. He is a member on the other side make this bill a piece of unmeaning patchwork. the gentleman's request.

of the House, and he is only entitled to the Mr. VAN AERNAM. The only way in

men.

which I could offer it appropriately would be portion of the proposed army which must prove Now, among the reasons which I beg leave to move to strike out the whole section and the least efficient, namely, the Veteran Reserve to assign for this amendment is, in the first insert this in lieu of it. corps and the colored regiments.

place, the vastly increased expense to be enMr. SCHENCK. This section applies to an As respects the Veteran Reserve corps, I || tailed upon the Government by the organizaorganization of six new cavalry regiments to agree with the remarks made on last Friday tion of ten additional regiments which under be added to the six now in the service, and by the gentleman from New York, EMr. Davis. ] no circumstances can perform more than one this general military legislation, intended to think the country owes to the disabled Union half the duty of the same number of efficient apply to all officers of all arms of the service, officers and soldiers of the late war a reason

and able-bodied men. I had occasion to state is incongruous with this part of the bill. able support, but not in the Army. I shall on Friday last the expense to which these ten hope the gentleman will so far aid the commit. || always be found ready to vote to the maimed additional regiments will subject the Govern: tee in perfecting the bill as to reserve his motion heroes of the war liberal provision in the shape ment in the way of their organization, equipand offeritas a distinct section at a later period. of pensions, but I am not in favor of providing | ment, and maintenance. I stated that if only

Mr. VAN AERNAM. If that will conduce for ten regiments of disabled soldiers as a part the minimum of these regiments was organto the convenience of the Committee on Mili of the Army of the United States.

ized the expense for the pay proper alone of tary Affairs I will withdraw my amendment As for the colored regiments, I believe they the officers and men would be nearly nine hunfor the present, and offer it at another time. can perform no military duties which could not dred thousand dollars a year. The amendment was withdrawn.

better be performed by white men. They are Mr. SCHENCK. Yes, and the gentleman Mr. SCHENCK. I move to amend the

not wanted as soldiers at the North, and at the missed the correct figures in his estimation by fourth section by striking out in line five the

South they would prove a continual source of || just half a million dollars. word "comprising,” and inserting in lieu || irritation, complaint, and disquiet. On the Mr. DAVIS. I did not get it high enough. thereof the word " constituting.'

Indian frontiers they would be less efficient Mr. SCHENCK. A half million too high. The motion was agreed to.

than white soldiers, for their fear of Indians is Mr. DAVIS. Iam satisfied I got it too low. Mr. BOYER. I offer the following amend,

proverbial. I maintain that to the white men I desire to increase the sum named, and to say

of the United States rightfully belongs the gove ment.

that the pay proper of these regiments will In line six after the word "regiments,'' strike

ernment of the country in peace and its defense cost the Government $1,300,000 per annum

in war. And if the time should ever come out all the remainder of the section, as follows:

if the organization shall reach only the minwhen they are no longer equal to the perform imum provided for. That is for their pay Of ten regiments, to be raised and officered as ance of these duties the hour of our national alone. hereinafter provided for, to be called the Veteran Reserve corps; and of eight regiments of colored men, dissolution will have arrived.

Now, when you come to add to that their to be raised and officered

as hereinafter provided, to I entertain no expectation that this amend equipment, maintenance, &c., you will see that be known as United States colored troops.

ment will prevail because from our past expe we are rolling up an immense indebtedness. This bill, as interpreted by the chairman of rience we know that when the majority of this And for what? For the purpose of furnishing the Military Committee, provides for an army House have once got hold of the negro upon. | employment to men who have been disabled of fifty thousand men, but with an organization any question they never surrender him from in the service; and that kind of employment capable of expansion to eighty-two thousand their embraces, but I have moved this amend which, for the interest of the Government, six hundred men. That is, there are to be ment and I shall endeavor to get a record vote should be performed only by able and efficient regiments organized and officers appointed upon it. I demand the yeas and nays upon sufficient for an army of eighty-two thousand my amendment.

Now, I submit that any man, who under any six hundred strong, and the President is to have The yeas and nays were ordered.

circumstance will enlist in this Veteran Reserve the authority to recruit it to. its maximum The question was taken; and it was decided corps, can, with a moderate and reasonable strength whenever in his discretion he may in the negative-yeas 16, nays 79, not voting | pension from the Government, obtain a com: decide that the exigencies of the service require | 88; as follows:

petent support by adding thereto some employit. To this large increase of the regular Army YEAS-Messrs. Boyer, Brandegee, Chanler, Eld inent which he will be able to perform in some as a peace establishment I desire to record my

ridge, Finck, Glossbrenner, Goodyear Grider, Aaron | walk of private life. Therefore it will be doing

Harding, Edwin N. Hubbell, Niblack, Nicholson, opposition. I have great respect for the opinion Ritter, Rogers, Shanklin, and Sitgreaves-16.

no wrong to these men if we pay them the penof the able and patriotic chairman of the Mili * NAYS-Messrs. Ames, Baker, Baldwin, Baxter, sions to which they are entitled, if we give them tary Committee, who has told us that he had been

Benjamin, Bidwell, Blaine, Boutwell, Buckland, the encouragement which we ought by our lib

Bundy, Coffroth, Conkling, Davis, Defrees, Deming, in favor of a still greater increase. I have also, Donnelly, Eckley, Eliot, Grinneli, Hale, Abner c.

erality, and then say to them, "Although we in common with the whole country, profound | Harding, Henderson, Hill, Holmes

, Hulburd, James deal liberally with you in consequence of your respect for the military judgment of the Lieu

M. Humphrey, Ingersoll, Jenckes, Julian, Kelley, past services, we do not feel bound to pay you

Kelso, Ketcham, Kuykendall, Latham, George V. tenant General, who, we are told, has expressed

I Lawrence, Loan, Longyear, Lynch, Marston, Marvin,

full pay as officers in this organization." himself in favor of the enlargement of the McClurg. McKee, McRuer, Mercur, Miller, Moorhead, believe there is no principle of justice or prostanding Army to the extent contemplated by

Morris, Moulton, Myers, O'Neill Orth, Paine Perham || priety which demands it.

Phelps, Price, William H. Randall, John H. Rice, this bill. Still I cannot bring myself to see its Rollins, Ross, Schenck, Shellabarger, Spalding, Ste

I believe that the interests of this country necessity.

vens, Thayer, Francis Thomas, John L. Thomas, | require that we should strike out this clause No one, I suppose, will contend that a larger | Thornton, Trowbridge, Upson, Robert T. Van Horn, standing army should be maintained in time of

Ward, Elihu B. Washburne, 'Henry : Washburn; | entirely. It is well known that if you take ten

William B. Washburn, Welker, Wentworth, Wil regiments of disabled troops and put them into peace than the exigencies of the country re liams, James F. Wilson, and Woodbridge-79. any service where efficiency and activity are quire. Now, what exigencies do exist which

NOT VOTING-Messrs. Alley, Allison, Ancona, required, they cannot do more than one-half

Anderson, Delos R. Ashley, James M. Ashley, Banks, require such an army as is provided by this bill Barker, Beaman, Bergen, Bingham, Blow, Bromwell,

the service which efficient and able-bodied men as a permanent peace establishment? The Broomall, Reader W. Clarke, Sidney Clarke, Cobb, can perform. rebellion is over. At least there is not a man

Cook, Cullom, Culver, Darling, Dawes. Dawson, Del Now, sir, I think that the striking out of the

ano, Denison, Dixon, Dodge, Driggs, Dumont, EgDow in arms against the Government in any gleston, Farnsworth, Farquhar, Ferry, Garfield, Gris- || provision for these ten regiments will be proper. part of the country. The President has pro wold, Harris, Hart, Hayes, Higby, Hogan, Hooper, I do not believe that to reduce by ten regiments claimed peace. The late rebellious States are

Hotchkiss, Asahel W. Hubbard, Chester D. Hubbard the Army proposed by this bill will be any injury submissively and patiently waiting at the doors bell, James Humphrey, Johnson. Jones, Kasson,

to this Government. Throughout our previous of Congress for peaceful recognition in the Kerr, Laflin, William Lawrence, Le Blond, Marshall || history, we have at all times been able to prereëstablished Union, the authority of which

MeCullough, McIndoe, Morrill, Newell, Noell, Pat-
terson, Pike, Plants, Pomeroy, Radford, Samuel J.

serve the peace of the country with an army none of them any longer disputes. The Indian Randall, Raymond, Alexander H. Rice, Rousseau,

far fewer in numbers than that now proposed; frontier is quiet, and likely to need less force Sawyer, Scofield, Sloan, Smith, Starr, Stilwell, Strouse, and although I admit that there is a necessity to keep it so than was heretofore required.

Taber, Taylor, Trimble, Van Aernam, Burt Van Horn, for a larger force at present, in consequence
Warner, Whaley, Stephen F. Wilson, Windom,

Win.
There is no immediate danger of a foreign field, and Wright-88.

of the increased extent of our country and war, and if such an occasion were to arise half So the amendment was not agreed to.

the peculiar condition of affairs now existing a million of volunteers could be raised in thirty

EVENING SESSION DISPENSED WITH.

in some portions of it, yet I am not ready to days, either for defense or invasion. During

Mr. WARD. I move that the evening ses

say that such an army as we would have if the present generation, at least, our volunteer

these ten regiments should be stricken out, an forces would not be found wanting either in

sion for to-day, be dispensed with.
The motion was agreed to.

army capable of being raised to seventy-two disciplined men or experienced officers. Why,

thousand seven hundred men, would not be then, shall we now provide for a standing army

REORGANIZATION OF THE ARMY-AGAIN. sufficient to meet all the demands of the Govof over eighty thousand men?

Mr. DAVIS. I move to amend this fourth ernment. I trust, therefore, that my amendUpon the general principle, then, that a section by striking out the words of ten regi- || ment will be adopted. larger standing army than the exigency de ments to be raised and officered as hereinafter Mr. INGERSOLL. I remember, Mr. mands is not in accordance with the nature or provided for, to be called the Veteran Reserve | Speaker, when the Veteran Reserve corps was safety of our institutions, and also upon the || corps.''

organized; and I remember, too, that at that ground of public economy, I move the amend I make this motion from no desire whatever time it was understood that that organization ment which I have offered. If it should pre to do wrong or injustice to any man who has was to be a permanent one. When the men rail it will save over eight millions a year to served gallantly in the armies of the Republic. who now compose that organization, or so the country, and still leave an army which, || But I do it because as a legislator, responsible | much of it as is left, had so far recovered from when raised to its maximum standard, will || in some degree for the enactments that may be wounds and disabilities incurred in active sernumber over sixty thousand men. I think the passed here, I believe it my duty to make this vice that they believed themselves fit for the reduction can best be made by striking off that II motion to amend.

military duty assigned to this corps, they ap

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