4057 MAY 13, 1834.] amount. OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS. Commutation Pension Bill. 4058 [H. OF R. It is not a gratuity, it is a claim, and the with an allowance of 6 per cent. until the same shall be amount is fixed and certain. For myself, Mr. Speaker, paid. The principle had then been recognised, and the I am convinced, from the little experience I have had obligations acknowledged. And Mr. Y. maintained, and upon this floor, that this is not the proper place for the quoted many instances in support of this position, that settlement of such demands. Your committees, to which the same rule extended to the compensation of the widthese applications are referred, are not in possession of ows and orphans of those who had fallen in the glorious the documentary evidence necessary to their decision. contest which had established our independence. He They have not the records and vouchers to show what afterwards adverted to the particular provisions of the bill, officers have been paid; and unless your committees are which, in respect to the notice of the proof required, he extremely vigilant and industrious, nay, more, sir, unless contended bore with peculiar hardness and injustice on they take it upon themselves to send off and hunt up tes- the claimants; as also, in his opinion, did the statute of timony in each case submitted to them, bills will often limitation. be reported in favor of those who have already received Mr. Y., in continuation, argued that the time allowed their commutation; and, when once reported, being ac- for the settlement of these claims had not been sufficient companied by the necessary proof of service, there will to justify the application of the principles of limitation. be nothing to impede their passage through the House. Further, that it was to be presumed that many of these Sir, the argument of the honorable gentleman from Ver officers had been prevented, by sickness or infirmity, mont, [Mr. ALLEN,] in which he endeavored to show the from presenting their claims within the prescribed time. facility with which bills granting commutation pass He referred to the case of Colonel Logan, whose widow through the House, is, to my mind, one of the strongest and orphans had never received a cent, although General reasons that can be urged in favor of referring these Washington had complimented that individual as one who, claims for settlement to a different tribunal. If a claim for bravery and talents, would do honor to any nation; is rejected by one committee, those interested renew the also to various other individual cases which bore upon application year after year, until, in some way or other, the question, and his argument upon it. After adverting they succeed in obtaining a favorable report. I believe to various points in which the present system was defecit to be much easier, Mr. Speaker, to get an unfounded tive, Mr. Y. then illustrated the case by that of an insolclaim allowed here than it would be to obtain for it the vent individual, who, having paid certain claims, at last sanction of a judicial decision by a competent officer. shuts down his gate, and says he will pay no man unless Congress is more liable to be imposed upon. Here all he comply with certain conditions. Such was the case the testimony is ex parte; it is furnished by the applicants with this Government. The statute of limitation ought to themselves, and the rules of evidence are not as rigidly be opened once more. The present act only opened it applied here as in a judicial tribunal. The proof is not for four years, and he was unwilling to accede to this limas thoroughly examined, or as accurately weighed. out, but who had not been able to take the benefit of those claims. Mr. Y. concluded by a further statement of the injustice of the statutes of limitations, and by expressing a hope that Congress would not take advantage of that principle. itation. He further contended against the principle Mr. Speaker, as a matter of economy, I would refer that those who had not served to the end of the war these claims as proposed by the bill. Instead of increas- should be cut off from the benefit of the act for that term ing, I have no doubt but that it would diminish the of service, even though the loss of a limb or other disdraught upon your treasury. If we undertake to legis- ability in the war might have been the cause of their not late upon each individual case, all that have merits will serving the full term. He (Mr. Y.) was of opinion that be allowed, as a matter of course; and we shall, in that the present bill did not extend the benefits originally incase, be compelled to pay many which have no merits, tended by Congress. Another class to which objection and which, were they submitted to the ordeal of a had been made-the officers of a higher grade, could be judicial investigation, would never be allowed. Sir, but few; to restrict the action of Congress on this class it appears to me that there can be no well-founded would be unworthy of a prosperous and high-minded objection either to the payment of these claims or to nation. It was further to be taken into consideration, the proposition to refer them for settlement to a com- that a considerable sum had accrued to the country of unpetent officer. Gentlemen may differ as to the rules claimed dividends of persons whose claims had been made of evidence by which that officer shall be governed in making his investigations; that is a matter for the consideration and decision of the House. It is not my purpose, sir, now to enter into a defence of the rules contained in the bill. The reasons for introducing them have already been submitted to [the House by other members of the committee. I will simply remark, however, that they are the same rules which have regulated the proceedings of your committee and this House for years; and, if we continue to legislate upon this subject, the same rules of evidence will, I have no doubt, continue to regulate our proceedings, except, perhaps, they may gradually become more and more relaxed. Mr. Speaker, I will not detain the House longer. If these demands are referred for settlement in the manner proposed by the bill upon your table, Congress will be relieved from a large portion of business; justice will not much longer be delayed; the old soldier who is entitled to commutation, will then obtain a speedy hearing, and your treasury, sir, will be more effectually barred against all unfounded claims. Mr. YOUNG followed. He referred to the former uniform practice of the House in these cases, and expressed his surprise at the argument advanced by the gentleman from Vermont. He quoted the resolutions under the laws of 1781, 1782, 1783, and 1784, on the commutation to be allowed; and contended that pay was thereby to be granted to all those then in the service, Mr. GILMER said he was convinced that if the House passed this bill it would be because they had declined to give it that examination which it merited. It was true, as had been said, as long as these cases came before the committee as individual cases, it would be utterly impossible, constituted as that House was, for the members to examine and weigh the facts and documents brought forward as evidence of claims. Many of them would take up twelve months; and how then could that House examine the facts of particular cases? It became, therefore, necessary for the House to examine the principles on which these claims might be determined. He was willing to make ample and liberal compensation where it was merited, and if the widow or children of any one of these officers were alive, he would be in favor of granting the commutation to them; but he was unwilling to approve of the passage of a bill which would give rise to a mass of claims to an extent of which they could form no calculation, and from persons who had no sort of title to any pay whatever. Mr. G. referred to the former commutation bill, passed by men, some of whose names were to be found appended to the declaration of independence, and who best understood what those claimants were fairly entitled | have nominally received all they were entitled to, a to. Ample time and ample opportunity had been afforded of any kind of pay they were originally promised. to all those officers to come forward and claim their com-army of the Revolution fought from 1776 to the f mutation pay; the Government, at various times, had 1778, for two years, almost literally without comp invited it, and it was to be inferred that every officer not indebted to the Government had done so. The presumptions were all against the validity of these claims, and he trusted the House would pause before it passed such a measure as this. Mr. G. said he should move to refer this bill back to the Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union, where the amendments offered by him might be fully discussed. Mr. YOUNG explained. Mr. VANDERPOEL was in favor of the proposed refference, because the bill contained provisions to which he had great objections. Mr. V. briefly reiterated the substance of some of his former remarks against the bill. Mr. BATES was against the recommittal of the bill, from the great delay and consequent hardship that would arise from doing so. tion or the hope of reward. They were paid with whilst, half-starved, half-clothed, their march in the try's service was tracked by the blood of their feet the frozen ground and snow of the North. I can show a bill of small articles, such as shoes, lustring purchased for his family by an officer during the yea or '78, whilst stationed in Philadelphia, which the now, would not come to ten dollars in good m amounting to many, I believe sixty pounds sterling. having been paid but nominally for the past, with p fortunes and constitutions broken down, and no pro of substantial reward for the future, about the ye the stoutest of them, the most valiant and devoted, compelled-they were but men, though such as the never saw before or since-to offer their resignatio the commander-in-chief. They could stand such Mr. WISE said that, as his constituents were deeply less service no longer. General Washington mad interested in the passage of this bill, he rose chiefly to quent recommendations to Congress on the subject, offer to them his excuse for not voting on its recommit- are matter of public history. The country was with ment. He had intended to have said no more than that treasury, and could not retain the officers in servic he himself was personally interested, and, therefore, by promises for the future, when their warfare shoul could not vote. But the gentleman from New York Congress first promised, in 1778, the half pay for [Mr. VANDERPOEL] having pertinaciously attempted to years to all who would continue in service during the prejudice the bill, by stigmatizing the claimants as well In 1780 the half pay for seven years was extended t as their claims, he could not forbear to make a short re- pay for life to all who would continue in service ply. He said he was not surprised at the opposition made end of the war, to commence from the time of the by the gentlemen from Georgia and Vermont [Mr. GIL-duction. In 1783 the half pay for life, and c MER and Mr. ALLEN,] for age, experience, and long prac- allowances for life, were changed to five years' ful tice in public life, had, of course, cooled their heads and called commutation. Such were the promises and their blood, and frequent contact with public claims had tracts between the Government and the officers, taught them to be cautious, hesitating, and doubting, in we have been told by the gentleman from Georgia allowing applications to Government. But he was sur- GILMER] were thus "extorted" by the latter fro prised that so youthful a member as the gentleman from former. Yes! extorted by such services, privation New York [Mr. VANDERPOEL] should outstrip these vete- such sufferings, during the war, to the end of the w ran legislators, in a cold, calculating opposition to a men never endured for any cause but that of liber measure of public justice, providing the payment of just independence! Many of the officers did serve debts, due the heirs of those, and the survivors of those, end of the war, or became supernumerary; many r who had won by their valor the very treasures out of ed their commutation pay, and many did not. Thos which payment is now sought. He had lately heard it did receive it were paid, as usual, in trash; in certi remarked, in conversation with a gentleman who seemed which, it is admitted, were "comparatively worth to know men well, "that patriotism was a very different and in fact never were paid, as I have said, a tithe o virtue after the age of thirty, from what it was before was promised them. The survivors and the heirs of that period, in a politician's life;" and he would hardly who are departed, who never received, and wou have supposed that the gentleman from New York had receive, the "worthless certificates," now make ap reached that age, if he had not discovered he had lost, tion for substantial and bona fide payment; and he if he ever had felt, the ardor and devotion at least of they met? By excuses and arguments the most p youthful patriotism. The gentleman has said he would terous and absurd. They are spurned by the gent go for this bill "if the claimants would but make out a tol- from Georgia [Mr. GILMER] as pensioners. Wh erably decent case." Is it possible that he can have any pension? A gratuitous allowance made by Govern revolutionary blood running in his veins? If he has not, in addition to the regular compensation or pay of I have, sir; and being a petitioner under this bill, and or military officers, after service is ended, w excluded by interest from a vote, I hope I may be per- promise, or an equivalent, and independent of the mitted, as an advocate of my own claim, and those of my of a contract. The pay which we seek is claimed constituents, to say, that we can make out "a decent a promise, an executory contract between the G case," if permitted to do so before an accounting officer; ment and the officers, before the service was ren and, independent of all presumptions, in many cases, can and which induced the performance of the service. prove that our ancestors served to the end of the war, were mutual covenants on the part of each. The were promised this pay by Congress for so doing, and was "debitum in præsenti solvendum in futuro," u that they or their heirs have never received the "quid certain condition, to serve to the end of the war; pro quo" for their services; that these claims seek not to has been complied with. The very expression avoid investigation and scrutiny, but court both, before a gentleman from Georgia, [Mr. GILMER,] that th competent accounting officer. We come not before you pay for life was a pension," is contradictory in itsel as pensioners on your bounty, asking a boon; I would an illustration of the argument. But he says further scorn to ask either for pension or for place. We demand though due to the officers, it died with their person a debt, incurred by the most solemn obligations of Gov- cannot now be claimed by the heirs. He says it w ernment, for the most inestimable of services ever render-promised to the heirs or representatives. I would as ed to this country or the cause of man. Sir, I speak not too strongly when I say that the United States have never paid, even to those officers who to show me the law providing for the pay of the o and soldiers of the army, which does, or ever did, that the arrears of their pay, at the time of their MAY 13, 1834.] Commutation Pension Bill. [H. OF R. should be paid to their heirs or legal representatives.ject of these acts of limitation, by the Congress which And yet, if a soldier or officer now in the army were to die, and the Government were in arrears to him, would not his representative or heirs have a legal claim upon the Government? It is true, this pay of the officers of the Revolution, who served to the end of the war, has been barred by acts of limitation, and is not therefore a legal claim; and the Gov. ernment now, in removing the bar of limitation, may, in its discretion, direct it to be paid either to legal representatives to pay debts, to heirs, or to devisees or legatees. I claim it for the heirs; and it is against every principle of law for debts to die with the person to whom they were due. passed them, was to prevent the payment of these claims? Never! they would never have been passed if the Congress of those days had not contemplated the repeal of the acts of limitation, and the admission of the claims as soon as the Government should be relieved from its burden of public debt, and be enabled honorably to redeem the faith of the nation, pledged to its own soldiers in its own cause. Many of the officers, I repeat, did not present their claims when they would have been paid in that which amounted to nothing, and they have never been paid their half pay or commutation pay up to this time: Many of them, by the act of '85, which authorized the respective corps to elect the commutation pay in lieu of But, again, the gentleman contends that if we allow half pay for life, had been forced against their will and the principal to the heirs, yet we should refuse to allow consent to abide this election, and they never consented interest. There is every reason, in the case of these to it to the days of their deaths. And now the gentleman claims, to urge the allowance of interest. Was not the from New York [Mr. VANDERPOEL] still more absurdly commutation pay at the end of the war a part of the na- contends that, because some were paid, and paid in tional debt; and was it not in part funded? Has not the "comparatively worthless certificates," those who were Government been paying interest on the funded debt not then paid at all should not, therefore, now be paid from that time to this? Did not the certificates of debt in good money! This, I should think, sir, would be a draw interest? Had the Government the "wherewithal" strong, very strong ground for allowing these claims; and to pay its immense debt, or any item of it, then, without not only so, but for allowing those who were then paid in borrowing? Would interest have not been payable on nothing, to be now put upon a footing of equality, by payloans? And has payment been delayed by the "laches" ing them, or their heirs, something; by making up to of the claimants? The Government itself barred the them the difference between "comparatively worthless claims from '89 to '92, and from '94 up to this time. But certificates" and the actual amount promised for their on another principle, if Government does not now allow services. But this rule of equality should certainly operate the interest on the commutation pay, it ought, in the both ways. From 1828 up to this time, you have been name of justice, to give the claimants the benefit of the constantly passing special acts allowing these commutation original contract with the officers, which will ensure an claims; about twenty have passed this House this session. equivalent, or nearly so, in many cases, to the interest. Several have been allowed and paid heretofore. Now, if If we be not allowed the principal and interest of the the remaining claims are not paid, and precisely on the commutation pay, give us what was promised-the half same principles, where is the justice of Government and pay for life, in lieu of which the commutation pay was the equality of citizenship? given. Mr. W. regretted that the bill, and the claims for But the arguments of the gentleman from New York which it provides, were not better understood in the [Mr. VANDERPOEL] are more preposterous and contradic- House. He begged of gentlemen who had not given it tory, and unjust, than those of the gentleman from Geor- their attention and study, and would have to vote on the gia, [Mr. GILMER.] He says these claims are barred by faith they reposed in others, to look to the committee lapse of time. Such is not the fact; for they were barred who had reported this bill, composed of some of the first in '87, and then in '94, so soon after the war, and ablest, most experienced, and vigilant members in that almost within the number of years for which commutation House. For an unanswerable defence of the bill, he repay was promised, by acts of limitation passed by Con- ferred to the very able argument delivered by the gentlegress the debtor, against the officers the creditors. But man from Kentucky, [Mr. MARSHALL,] who reported it, the gentleman says, and I call the attention of the House and to the remarks of the other members of the committo the expression, that "the Government was continually tee. He reminded the House that his deceased colleague calling on the officers, by invitations in the form of limita- [Judge BOULDIN] was a member of the committee; and tions, to present their claims." Pretty invitations, in- though ever zealous and watchful of expenditures, and deed! The truth is, that Congress was engaged from '83 though he was bitterly hostile to the whole pension systo '85 in considering and discussing the manner in which tem, yet, ever ready to do justice, he was a friend to this these debts should be paid. During these two years, no bill. The committee was unanimous. Mr. W. said he claims could be settled, because the mode of settlement, hoped the authorities for would outweigh those against and the kind of payment, were not determined upon. In the bill; and concluded by saying it would be death to the two years following, from '85 to '87, the opportunity the bill to recommit it, whilst all admitted that it provided was afforded to such to be paid as chose to be paid in cer- for many claims which, in some form or other, ought to tificates which were worthless. I blame not the Congress. be satisfied. I mean to cast no reproach upon the great and good men Mr. VANDERPOEL said that, so long as he had the of Congress in '87, when I say they were anxious to com- honor of representing a portion of the freemen of the pel the "old soldiers" to come in and take the certifi-State of New York on this floor, he should discharge what cates which were then offered, in order to settle up the he believed to be his duty, fearlessly and independently, public debt, and then they passed the limitation of '87, which continued until '92. and that it was not in the power of animadversion, sarcasm, or menace, from whatever quarter they might In '92 they removed the bar until '94, but still the pay come, either to deter him from his duty, or enervate him was not what was promised; it was worthless; and many in the discharge of it. The gentleman from Virginia officers from design, and many, no doubt, from ignorance, [Mr. WISE] had told us that he was interested in the bill and the short time allowed, did not present their claims. before us, and would not, therefore, vote upon the pendFrom '94 until the present moment, it is true, the claim-ing question. This, said Mr. V., is all well enough. It ants have been "invited," by a continual bar of their accords with that delicacy and sense of propriety that claims, to present them for payment. From '83 to 1834 should always characterize every gentleman here and there have been but four years in fifty that these claims elsewhere. But, sir, it strikes me that the recollection have not been barred. Can it be supposed that the ob- of that interest which restrains the gentleman from vo 4063 H. OF R.] GALES & SEATON'S REGISTER Commutation Pension Bill. [MAY 13, claims actually exist, to justify the very liberal, d ous, and unprecedented presumptions proposed established by the bill, the gentleman from Virgin seen fit to denounce my positions as " preposterou Sir, said Mr. V., this is not the first time that seen gentlemen, when hard pressed, resort to epi demolish the argument of their antagonists; and perience has long since taught me that it is gener sorted to for the want of more substantial materia is the standing resource of those who feel the emb ment inseparable from a scarcity of argument; and hazard the belief that the gentleman from Virginia have done full as much towards advancing the bill here espoused, if he had attempted to refute the p of the gentleman from New York by a more de use of the weapons of logic, and without the aid argument of epithet. ting should have inculcated a little more respect for the views and opinions, and a little more charity for the motives of other gentlemen, who have seen fit to differ with the gentleman from Virginia in relation to the merits of the bill. It would have been well enough for the gentleman to have recollected that self-interest is the Jupiter of the human heart; a very potent, if not an all-absorbing feeling; that it warps the judgment of the wisest, and blurs the vision of the most sagacious of men; that it ofttimes imparts a false and repulsive coloring to truth, and gives error and heresy a sound and seductive aspect; and that, as a general rule, the judge who is wholly disinterested in the subject-matter upon which he is called to adjudicate, is deemed more competent to attain correct conclusions than he who views a subject through the deceptive medium of an interested imagination. Mr. V. thought, for his part, that a timely recurrence to these homely and familiar truths would on all occasions tend Another provision of this bill which irresistib to repress the over-confidence, and correct the vehe- for its recommitment, is the provision allowing mence of those who spoke or acted under the impulse of to those who are to be admitted to its benefits. interest. Whether the consideration of interest had in this instance rendered the gentleman from Virginia more deferential to the opinion of others, and less confident of the correctness of his own, he (Mr. V.) would not undertake to determine. Let the effort which the honorable gentleman has just made speak for itself on this point. becomes a pretty important feature in the bill, wh recollect that, at this late day, the interest of sever pay will be nearly, if not quite, quadruple the pri On what principle can the claim to interest be supp Does not the allowance of interest imply a continu willingness, or non-readiness, on the part of Gover to pay these claims? But, sir, is not such unreadi Mr. V. said he was in favor of recommitting the bill to unwillingness contradicted by the history of the G the Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union, to ment? So far from ever evincing an unwilling the end that those objectionable features, on the ground satisfy the obligations incurred by the resolves of which he had mainly opposed its passage on a former Revolutionary Congress, Congress, after the adop occasion, might be expunged. Here, in the House, the the federal constitution, from time to time invite bill was incapable of amendment. Those who disap- applicants to come forward and present their proved of some of its features could not obviate the ob- Acts of limitation have been passed, and were rep jections which might possibly induce them to vote against extended before their expiration. These ext it if those features were not removed. The presump- were, in effect, not only offers to pay these claims tions which the bill recognised in favor of the claims the nature of invitations to come forward and of those who might apply for the benefit of its pro- them. Do you propose, by the passage of the bi visions were wholly intolerable. They could not fail your table, to provide for the payment of debts? to lead to immense frauds and peculations, were alto- sir, I contend that a tender or offer to pay th gether unheard of in the annals of legislation, and were been made by the Government; and this, as betw wholly unknown among the fair and sound conclusions dividuals, always arrests the progress of intere which, in contemplation of law, flowed from the lapse gentlemen wish to secure, in favor of those who of time. The wisdom and experience of ages has sanc- these stale, uncertain, and outlawed claims, a more tioned, if not sanctified, the rule that a presumption rule than would be applied to demands between of the non-existence of a claim results from the long uals that are recent and indisputable? In relation omission to present or assert it. But, sir, according to of my constituents, whose petition for what was the provisions of this bill, claims upon the Govern- due I presented at an early part of this session, I ment acquire new vigor and favor from the efflux of by the committee of this House to whom it was r time. What a temptation, nay, what a bounty, does that the Government never pays interest where th this principle hold out to those who have counterfeit or been no fault, refusal, or omission on its part, or doubtful claims, to postpone the presentation of them has not contributed to the causes that have preve until every vestige of evidence to contradict or falsify earlier payment or presentation of the demand. them is consumed by all-corroding time. Look, sir, at forcibly struck, sir, with the justice and propriety the effect of the principle in this very case. Those who rule, that I most readily submitted to it. applied for their commutation for their seven years' pay, When on a former occasion I had the honor of when the evidence in favor of their claims was fresh and ing the House, said Mr. V., I stated that, if the green, were paid in certificates that were comparatively your table passed, some of the officers, of the worthless; whereas, those who have lain upon their oars State line would be thrice paid for their revol for more than half a century, until the ancestors them- services; that they would first participate in the selves who rendered the alleged services are gathered to ble amount you appropriated in 1832 for the pay their fathers, and until all remembrance of the services the Virginia claims, then avail themselves of the in support of the claims must have become obscure and 1828 granting the full pay of a captain for life, unsatisfactory, and until the Government has become partake of the benefits of the bill upon your table divested of all means to defend against them-they, sir, secures to the objects of it nothing short of prin are to have lavished upon themselves, or their heirs, not tunes. I then succeeded in showing, sir, that the only the full amount of their commutation, in good hard of these Virginia regiments had been recognised Jackson money, but also more than fifty years' interest! tinental officers, both by your Secretary of States I say again, what a munificent bounty is this to the tardy, Secretary of the Treasury, in their construction who would not present their claims to commutation, when, of 1828; and that these officers, thus already dout peradventure, there was a host of living witnesses to would come within the provisions of this bill, bec contradict them! and yet, sir, because I have dared to in- only question with the Secretary of the Treasur timate a doubt whether a sufficient number of these be, whether they belonged to the continental line MAY 14, 1834.] Commulation Pension Bill--Public Deposites. and that, after the view which not only the Secretary, but which Congress had taken of the nature of their service, by passing private acts for their relief, as was done in favor of the heirs of Vauters and others, the Secretary of the Treasury would now be estopped from controverting this point; and these officers would emphatically be the favored sons of fortune, if this bill should pass with all its singular provisions. Mr. V. said he dwelt upon this point with no intention to disparage that great and patriotic State which the gentleman [Mr. WISE] in part so honorably represented; but he felt it an imperative duty to repeat a fact which should have so important a bearing upon the question of rejecting or passing this bill; a fact which had not yet been, to the knowledge of him, (Mr. V.) contradicted by any gentleman who had yet spoken. [H. OF R. attempt to influence him or any gentleman, by menace, on Sir, if my interest in this subject does not enable me to judge of it as clearly as some gentlemen, it justifies me, at all events, in repelling reproach cast upon the claimants, when I myself am a petitioner. The gentleman complains that I did not reply to his argument, and indulged in sarcasm for the want of better materials. The House, perhaps, can judge of that better than either of us. i did not rise, sir, to argue the bill, but merely to dispel prejudice, and to reply to some of the gentleman's "decent" expressions. I have said there are very few in this House, or out of it, who do understand this bill; I Mr. V. said it should be borne in mind that the bill wish members did understand its merits, for its own sake, made provision for the heirs and representatives of the and in order the better to comprehend the arguments and deceased, as well as for surviving officers. This consid-reply of the gentleman and myself. Some who have ateration should admonish us not to establish any rules by tempted to argue it even seem to understand very little, which the facility of these heirs to prove and establish either about the history of the claims or the principles of their claims shall be unreasonably extended. Confine the the laws providing for them. provisions of the bill to the surviving officers, who may pretend to be entitled to commutation, and the drain which it would occasion upon your treasury would be comparatively light; but, sir, pass the bill in its present shape, and these heirs, pretending to be the descendants of sires who never received what their country promised them, will be found scattered through the country as thickly as locusts. They, sir, can apply without incurring the imputation of fraudulent motive, immaterial how unfounded their claim may be; for they cannot be presumed to possess any personal knowledge as to the revolutionary services of their ancestor. They have, to be sure, heard that he was an officer of the Revolution; they may have heard him talk or dream about the commutation resolves of Congress; but whether he received his half pay or not, they know not; they apply to the Executive departments, and find no evidence there to contradict the claim they wish to prefer, because the devouring flames have come to their aid, by consuming the public records; they are encouraged by the success of others, prove merely that their ancestor served after 1780, and draw at Mr. MARSHALL (chairman of the committee who had once thousands from your treasury; whereas, had the an-reported the bill) responded to the objections which had cestor survived, the application, probably, would never been urged against it, and read a letter from the Register have been made, because his own oath would have been of the Treasury, going to show that interest had been required; and this requisition would have been a suffi- allowed, as of course, in certain cases where claims for cient bar to his success. I do not intend, by these re-commutation had been established. marks, to reflect upon any heirs of deceased officers, but merely to warn the House of consequences that may flow from the passage of the bill in its present form, and pre- Mr. WARD explained, on the subject of certain Virvail upon it, if possible, to send it back to a committee,ginia regiments who, as Mr. VANDERPOEL apprehended, where it may be purged of the dangerous features and would be allowed double pay under the bill." principles which it now imbodies. Mr. MARSHALL spoke to the same point, showing that they would not be included. The gentleman from Virginia [Mr. WISE] tells us that he is individually interested in the passage of this bill, and he gives us plainly to understand that he is a descendant of one of the veterans of the Revolution, and asks whether the gentleman from New York can boast of any revolutionary blood coursing through his veins. Sir, said Mr. V., I will answer him in the language of a modest and unobtrusive Christian, not a vain and egotistical one, sir, who, when impertinently asked whether he had any religion, calmly responded, "None, sir, to talk about." Mr. WISE said the remark of the gentleman that he (Mr. W.) had "menaced" him, called for explanation. He denied that he had menaced the gentleman, but merely replied to an attack by him on the claimants of this bill, one of whom he (Mr. W.) was. He said he hoped the gentleman (Mr. V.) was a man; if he was a man, he never would be deterred from the performance of his duty by the menace or the influence of any one; and he (MP. W.) could assure him that he would be the last to VOL. X.--255 I thought as much, sir, that the gentleman had "no revolutionary blood in his veins to talk about," or not to talk about. I have, sir; and, I repeat, I am proud of it. But I meant not to reproach him with this, or any thing, save that he is using his best endeavors to withhold compensation for revolutionary services. And I will say, sir, that if the gentleman bas, as I have, any of the patriotic band surviving in his district, he may hereafter meet with a reproach at the polls, which I would not meet-no!— not for ten thousand times ten thousand the amount of the sum which will be appropriated by this bill! He may see the old survivors of the battles of liberty, in the last trembling hours of their existence, tottering on their crutches, or brought on their beds to the polls, and the heirs and descendants of revolutionary sires elbowing through the crowd, earnest and anxious to record their votes against a candidate ungrateful for their services, and the rich fruits of them which he now enjoys! Such a sight would wither me. I meant only to warm the gentleman a little-he is so cold. Mr. VANDERPOEL and Mr. WISE had one more encounter of a rather brisk character. Mr. BATES stated the opinion of the Department to the same effect. Mr. McKINLEY moved an adjournment; but it was negatived. Mr. STEWART asked for the yeas and nays on the question of recommitment; but the House refused to order them. The question was then put and carried: Ayes 88, noes 76. So the commutation pension bill was recommitted to a Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union. The House then adjourned. :' WEDNESDAY, MAY 14. The House proceeded to the consideration of the reso |